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Author Topic: What Happened to the Preppers?  (Read 11850 times)

coelacanth

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Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2018, 09:14:54 pm »
I learned most of what I know from country doctors and veterinarians.  I know - and I promise not to treat any of you without permission  :facepalm - but, that said, Plebian and luke213 are both on the right track.  More training is better than less training and the ability to transport serious cases to more sophisticated treatment is vital in most instances.   I'm still trying to determine if buying high quality instruments is better than buying single use stuff in the long term.  My thinking is toward the higher end stuff but I just don't have the experience to decide it definitively at this point.
Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

                                               Benjamin Franklin

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    MTK20

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #26 on: April 25, 2018, 09:31:27 pm »
    I learned most of what I know from country doctors and veterinarians.  I know - and I promise not to treat any of you without permission  :facepalm - but, that said, Plebian and luke213 are both on the right track.  More training is better than less training and the ability to transport serious cases to more sophisticated treatment is vital in most instances.   I'm still trying to determine if buying high quality instruments is better than buying single use stuff in the long term.  My thinking is toward the higher end stuff but I just don't have the experience to decide it definitively at this point.

    If you can, PM me? I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for.

    In my humble opinion, I would buy the higher end stuff individually and assemble a kit peicemeal, as I have never seen a kit that was pre-assembled that really interested me  :shrug.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #27 on: April 25, 2018, 10:50:33 pm »
    That has been my exact objection to them so far.  PMing you is OK but it doesn't share knowledge with others.  For instance, today I was looking for a pair of splinter forceps -  :shocked - there's about eight different varieties.  I don't have the time and money to test them all myself so I'm looking for a way to winnow the choices down to what actually works well in the field. 

    I have gone to EMT sites, veterinary sites - you name it - but it appears to come down to what you're comfortable using for the task at hand.  I have removed cactus spines from my tender hide with a pair of hemostats but I wouldn't necessarily recommend them as a first choice for the job. 
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

                                                   Benjamin Franklin

    MTK20

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #28 on: April 25, 2018, 11:47:09 pm »
    That has been my exact objection to them so far.  PMing you is OK but it doesn't share knowledge with others.  For instance, today I was looking for a pair of splinter forceps -  :shocked - there's about eight different varieties.  I don't have the time and money to test them all myself so I'm looking for a way to winnow the choices down to what actually works well in the field. 

    I have gone to EMT sites, veterinary sites - you name it - but it appears to come down to what you're comfortable using for the task at hand.  I have removed cactus spines from my tender hide with a pair of hemostats but I wouldn't necessarily recommend them as a first choice for the job.

    Ah, ok. When it comes to stuff like cactus thorns or stuff like that, then listen to Plebian, Luke, or I'm sure Grant would all be well suited for it. All of y'all work outdoors and are much more accustomed to living with those day to day hazards and injuries than I am. Most of my training has been in the emergency department and I have seen some of those injuries, but that is not where my base of knowledge is.

    Now if you want to better understand resuscitation, then that is something I know more about. I'll admit that we can't do too much if we don't have the right tools (ECG, cardio converter, levophed, etc) and all of the skills that come along with using those items, but I have had the privilege to work alongside a team during some codes and rapid responses. Basically where the EMT's left off.

    I am seriously thinking about getting a refurbished defibrillator pretty soon. This isn't for a EOTWAWKI situation, rather for during rule of law. Us men are most at risk for heart attacks and while CPR is lovely, it never saved anyone. It is merely prolonging the inevitable until we can shock them or get them to the hospital (where drugs and cardioversion will be used). People don't go into cardiac arrest just over "heart stuff", but for many reasons. While they have taught us tips and tricks on how to diagnose what the problem is, I just can't for the life of me think of how to 'fix' it with the equipment that the average lay person has.


    Necessary things that you find on a crash cart, such as the very powerful and effective medications used to prolong life while the healthcare team finds the root cause of the problem, we simply do not have access to in our day to day life.

    I wish I could be of more help  :shrug .
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Plebian

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #29 on: April 26, 2018, 11:36:25 am »
    That has been my exact objection to them so far.  PMing you is OK but it doesn't share knowledge with others.  For instance, today I was looking for a pair of splinter forceps -  :shocked - there's about eight different varieties.  I don't have the time and money to test them all myself so I'm looking for a way to winnow the choices down to what actually works well in the field. 

    I have gone to EMT sites, veterinary sites - you name it - but it appears to come down to what you're comfortable using for the task at hand.  I have removed cactus spines from my tender hide with a pair of hemostats but I wouldn't necessarily recommend them as a first choice for the job.

    I have a set of these

     https://www.medline.com/product/WILLIAMS-Splinter-Forceps-by-Miltex/Splinter-Forceps/Z05-PF95223;ecomsessionid=MYCEnUrmrIQCBoGH521zFA__?question=&index=P17&indexCount=17

    for the super fun times that is the honey locust tree.



    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    Plebian

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #30 on: April 26, 2018, 11:39:10 am »
    I also carry a small bottle of wood glue for removing super small splinters or thorns etc. You just pour some on the spot, and sit still till it hardens then pull off glue and splinter together.

    I like the clamping type forceps for bigger splinters. The triangle type head is also nice if it is broken off under the skin. You can split the skin if needed and jam the head in there to get a solid hold. 
    « Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 11:53:42 am by Plebian »
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    luke213(adamsholsters)

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #31 on: April 26, 2018, 12:52:55 pm »
    for the super fun times that is the honey locust tree.



    That ain't no tree that's medieval torture is what that is;)

    That said I've got little advice on thorns etc, we don't really have much of that around here. We're big hardwoods and thick woods like that but no thorns other than minor stuff like raspberries and blackberries etc. And those while irritating aren't anything you can't remove easily. So I'm not much help in that regard, since it's not my area.

    That's something funny to note though, up here I'm perfectly comfortable in the woods hell I grew up more in the woods than in town anywhere;) But when we traveled I was often unnerved by the differences in environment and survival strategies. I felt well unprepared for just about anything in the desert hell we got nothing like that around here;) Put me in Arkansas and most areas there I'm alright other than their weird bugs and such, though same with desert. Really up here you're fighting the cold, the weather and well lots of stuff, but it's different than elsewhere too;) Weird though how someone can know an area and be comfortable but be moved elsewhere and not be prepared at all or feel as though they aren't;)

    Luke
    MichiganI am the owner/proprietor of www.adamsholsters.com Custom holsters made for you. To contact me please use E-mail rather than Private Messages, [email protected]

    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #32 on: April 26, 2018, 01:53:43 pm »
    See? Now this is why I post up stuff here when I want answers - you guys are really being helpful at this point.  :thumbup1

    Ah, ok. When it comes to stuff like cactus thorns or stuff like that, then listen to Plebian, Luke, or I'm sure Grant would all be well suited for it. All of y'all work outdoors and are much more accustomed to living with those day to day hazards and injuries than I am. Most of my training has been in the emergency department and I have seen some of those injuries, but that is not where my base of knowledge is.

    Now if you want to better understand resuscitation, then that is something I know more about. I'll admit that we can't do too much if we don't have the right tools (ECG, cardio converter, levophed, etc) and all of the skills that come along with using those items, but I have had the privilege to work alongside a team during some codes and rapid responses. Basically where the EMT's left off.

    I am seriously thinking about getting a refurbished defibrillator pretty soon. This isn't for a EOTWAWKI situation, rather for during rule of law. Us men are most at risk for heart attacks and while CPR is lovely, it never saved anyone. It is merely prolonging the inevitable until we can shock them or get them to the hospital (where drugs and cardioversion will be used). People don't go into cardiac arrest just over "heart stuff", but for many reasons. While they have taught us tips and tricks on how to diagnose what the problem is, I just can't for the life of me think of how to 'fix' it with the equipment that the average lay person has.


    Necessary things that you find on a crash cart, such as the very powerful and effective medications used to prolong life while the healthcare team finds the root cause of the problem, we simply do not have access to in our day to day life.

    I wish I could be of more help  :shrug .

    Don't apologize - not at all - this is just another piece of this particular jigsaw puzzle.  Old farts like me have to occasionally unlearn something we thought was a good idea when we learned it 25 years ago and we do that by picking your young, talented brains for stuff like this.   :cool

    I just learned that it is no longer considered a good idea to elevate the feet of a person in shock.   :hmm   I heard for years that it was probably a good idea unless there was head trauma of a wound in the head/shoulder area. 

    And, for the record, we don't have the honey locust here but we do have some of its relatives.  Acacia trees here are particularly nasty for large incredibly sharp thorns and then there's always everybody's favorite - the cholla cactus.   :panic   They are quite an experience if you've never encountered one.  We also use the glue trick but it doesn't work so well on stuff with microscopic barbs on the end of the thorns/spines/whatever. 
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

                                                   Benjamin Franklin

    Plebian

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #33 on: April 26, 2018, 02:09:42 pm »
    That ain't no tree that's medieval torture is what that is;)

    That said I've got little advice on thorns etc, we don't really have much of that around here. We're big hardwoods and thick woods like that but no thorns other than minor stuff like raspberries and blackberries etc. And those while irritating aren't anything you can't remove easily. So I'm not much help in that regard, since it's not my area.

    That's something funny to note though, up here I'm perfectly comfortable in the woods hell I grew up more in the woods than in town anywhere;) But when we traveled I was often unnerved by the differences in environment and survival strategies. I felt well unprepared for just about anything in the desert hell we got nothing like that around here;) Put me in Arkansas and most areas there I'm alright other than their weird bugs and such, though same with desert. Really up here you're fighting the cold, the weather and well lots of stuff, but it's different than elsewhere too;) Weird though how someone can know an area and be comfortable but be moved elsewhere and not be prepared at all or feel as though they aren't;)

    Luke

    Everything in Oklahoma will either sting, bite, stab or poke you.

    I had a run in with a honey locust when I was about 15. A creek bank gave way and I ended up tumbling into the truck of a honey locust like in the picture. My left shoulder rammed the tree, and you can see how that might be uncomfortable. The great thing about honey locust thorns is they are also brittle and tend to snap off once fully home. I did my best impression of a womanly scream for a few minutes while prying myself off the tree. Most of the thorns I could pull by hand, but about 6 broke off under the skin, and one was lodged super firmly in the pec muscle.

    Once home my father(being the caring man he is) proceeded to cut open the skin to get a solid hold with needle nose pliers and yanked the thorns out. He would yank them out quick so it didn't hurt as much... He then washed the area with iodine and alcohol. Which was also enjoyable.

    It was also wrestling season. That singlet combined with sweat was just sheer joy for a few weeks there. My teammates, being the wonderful and supportive guys they are at 15 and 16, helped heal the wound by rubbing sweaty hands across the shoulder if I didn't pay attention.   
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    Plebian

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #34 on: April 26, 2018, 02:22:14 pm »
    And, for the record, we don't have the honey locust here but we do have some of its relatives.  Acacia trees here are particularly nasty for large incredibly sharp thorns and then there's always everybody's favorite - the cholla cactus.   :panic   They are quite an experience if you've never encountered one.  We also use the glue trick but it doesn't work so well on stuff with microscopic barbs on the end of the thorns/spines/whatever.

    I encountered a jumping cholla cactus on one of my trips to Arizona. One of the little stem/arms of the cactus decided to attack the back of my calf. It is a new experience for certain.

    Luke had a fair point earlier. I am very comfortable with plains, Arizona deserts and pine/mixed forests. My first trip to Alaska was really different for me. It was wet, cold and super overgrown undergrowth. It is a whole different type of moving when having to pry your way thru dense growth like that. What would normally be a simple and easy walk of 5 miles in most places will become a super tiring slog dragging yourself thru brush all day to make the same 5 miles. Everything was damp and slippery as well. 
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #35 on: April 26, 2018, 05:17:45 pm »
    That was my point about a kit being general in nature and being adaptable to specific circumstances.   I've never been to Alaska so I'll take your word for it but in the south you can run into cane thickets - especially along watercourses - and briar patches and either of those will convince you to change course in fairly short order.  It's a lot harder to do when you end up doing it at night chasing after a bunch of hounds that have treed a racoon.   :facepalm

    I only had to worry about hypothermia when I was above 7000' elevation during the cold months and some weather moved in.  That's generally a matter of being uncomfortable until you can get back to camp or the truck.  As you say though, getting wet and losing traction because of rain or snow makes the process kind of an ordeal. 

    Which brings me to a corollary issue - during those cold weather outings my first aid kit remained the same.  The only thing I did different was to load the pack with the other stuff I might need if it turned ugly outside or I got stranded somehow.  I guess a true Alaskan first aid kit would have to take into account the possibility of prolonged sub-freezing conditions.   :hmm
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Mikee5star

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #36 on: April 26, 2018, 10:30:23 pm »
    That was my point about a kit being general in nature and being adaptable to specific circumstances.   I've never been to Alaska so I'll take your word for it but in the south you can run into cane thickets - especially along watercourses - and briar patches and either of those will convince you to change course in fairly short order.  It's a lot harder to do when you end up doing it at night chasing after a bunch of hounds that have treed a racoon.   :facepalm

    I only had to worry about hypothermia when I was above 7000' elevation during the cold months and some weather moved in.  That's generally a matter of being uncomfortable until you can get back to camp or the truck.  As you say though, getting wet and losing traction because of rain or snow makes the process kind of an ordeal. 

    Which brings me to a corollary issue - during those cold weather outings my first aid kit remained the same.  The only thing I did different was to load the pack with the other stuff I might need if it turned ugly outside or I got stranded somehow.  I guess a true Alaskan first aid kit would have to take into account the possibility of prolonged sub-freezing conditions.   :hmm

    Having rarely visited let alone lived anywhere hot, heat stress/stroke is kinda like hypothermia, at least in my mind.  It is a mental/preparedness challenge.  The most dangerous weather conditions for hypothermia is 35-38 and drizzling rain.  You are wet, but not bad enough to seek shelter and your core temp will really fall rapidly when you slow or stop moving.  Most hypothermia deaths are related to two factors in my experience, alcohol and cascading problems.  It is critical that you seek help and or shelter before your capacity for decision making is impaired by hypothermia.

    I add a mylar blanket and some sort of waterproof fire starter to whatever first aid kit for Alaska needs.  Generally if you are down to first aid kit for dealing with prolonged sub-freezing conditions, your preparedness is so far shot, you need to get on the plane back to a warmer climate.   Good gear, dry base layers, and a good sleeping bag is your best defense against hypothermia.  I do add these items to my travel gear when driving more than a hour or so in winter time.   I vacuum seal wool socks, polypropylene long john set, and a waffle knit shirt and just throw it in a pack or in the truck.  Compact, lightweight, and waterproof.
    Alaska

    Plebian

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #37 on: April 27, 2018, 11:50:55 am »
    Having rarely visited let alone lived anywhere hot, heat stress/stroke is kinda like hypothermia, at least in my mind.  It is a mental/preparedness challenge.  The most dangerous weather conditions for hypothermia is 35-38 and drizzling rain.  You are wet, but not bad enough to seek shelter and your core temp will really fall rapidly when you slow or stop moving.  Most hypothermia deaths are related to two factors in my experience, alcohol and cascading problems.  It is critical that you seek help and or shelter before your capacity for decision making is impaired by hypothermia.

    Heat stress is sneaky and completely different than hypothermia from my experiences in hot climates and cold climates. The heat is no problem, no problem then WHAM bad, bad problem within minutes. Where when I hit violent shakes in Alaska, it was a slow slide down to being too cold.

    The nice thing about heat is humans readily adapt to it. If you get used to the heat, keep hydrated, stay in decent shape and watch how hard you push. Then it is really easy to not get heat stress illness. The other big issue is that heat stress in a desert directly sets you up for hypothermia come nightfall. 

    Humans just cannot adapt to cold. We gotta rely on gear or fire to keep us warm enough to function. Humans can easily train to be able to do massive physical activity in insane heat, but there is just no way for us to train to live in cold. We must have the gear to survive in it. 
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #38 on: April 27, 2018, 01:10:11 pm »
    Yup.  I worked for outside here in Phoenix for thirty years and you do adapt.  You also learn to pre-hydrate whenever possible and watch your electrolyte levels.  Shade is your friend and so is the time just before sunrise and just after sunset.  I used to do most of my yard work in those intervals.  Heatstroke is something I've never experienced.  Got close once or twice but I've worked outdoors all my life and you can get an idea when its time to sit your a$$ down and take a rest and get some water.   

    As for cold, I've never gotten past the violent shivering stage but it feels like it could get pretty nasty in short order.   :shocked

    Having rarely visited let alone lived anywhere hot, heat stress/stroke is kinda like hypothermia, at least in my mind.  It is a mental/preparedness challenge.  The most dangerous weather conditions for hypothermia is 35-38 and drizzling rain.  You are wet, but not bad enough to seek shelter and your core temp will really fall rapidly when you slow or stop moving.  Most hypothermia deaths are related to two factors in my experience, alcohol and cascading problems.  It is critical that you seek help and or shelter before your capacity for decision making is impaired by hypothermia.

    I add a mylar blanket and some sort of waterproof fire starter to whatever first aid kit for Alaska needs.  Generally if you are down to first aid kit for dealing with prolonged sub-freezing conditions, your preparedness is so far shot, you need to get on the plane back to a warmer climate.   Good gear, dry base layers, and a good sleeping bag is your best defense against hypothermia.  I do add these items to my travel gear when driving more than a hour or so in winter time.   I vacuum seal wool socks, polypropylene long john set, and a waffle knit shirt and just throw it in a pack or in the truck.  Compact, lightweight, and waterproof.
    Having rarely visited let alone lived anywhere hot, heat stress/stroke is kinda like hypothermia, at least in my mind.  It is a mental/preparedness challenge.  The most dangerous weather conditions for hypothermia is 35-38 and drizzling rain.  You are wet, but not bad enough to seek shelter and your core temp will really fall rapidly when you slow or stop moving.  Most hypothermia deaths are related to two factors in my experience, alcohol and cascading problems.  It is critical that you seek help and or shelter before your capacity for decision making is impaired by hypothermia.

    I add a mylar blanket and some sort of waterproof fire starter to whatever first aid kit for Alaska needs.  Generally if you are down to first aid kit for dealing with prolonged sub-freezing conditions, your preparedness is so far shot, you need to get on the plane back to a warmer climate.   Good gear, dry base layers, and a good sleeping bag is your best defense against hypothermia.  I do add these items to my travel gear when driving more than a hour or so in winter time.   I vacuum seal wool socks, polypropylene long john set, and a waffle knit shirt and just throw it in a pack or in the truck.  Compact, lightweight, and waterproof.
    Your prep sounds like mine - at least when I'm out in cold weather at high altitiude.  Here in the southwest there's usually dry tinder and fuel around if you know where to look - even in a rainstorm - so getting a fire going is not generally a problem.  I've used the mylar blankets for years  and wouldn't go in the field without one - especially considering the negligible size and weight.   Stuff like that and dry clothing always goes into the general pack though and not into the first aid kit. 

    Actually, the "first" part of first aid is knowing what your situation is - whether it's inclement weather, a wound of some sort or an underlying physical condition that robs you of your normal abilities.  Being able to asses that will likely keep you from getting deeper in trouble than you already are - as you say, avoid cascading problems. 
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

                                                   Benjamin Franklin

    luke213(adamsholsters)

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #39 on: April 27, 2018, 01:17:38 pm »
    This actually brings up something for me I've been meaning to do. Seldom am I out in the woods on foot, at least far from here IE I don't hike much anymore. I mean yeah I've been stranded and hiked several miles back home well 2-3 times during this last winter. But I typically don't hike on purpose;)

    But usually I am on a wheeler, in a truck, etc some sort of vehicle often WAY back in beyond where normal people go or where there might not be another person in that 1,000 acres I happen to be in the middle of or a larger area. Sometimes there isn't anyone closer to me than the house and Sarah;)

    None the less I've been meaning to put together a bit of a survival kit, first aid kit that will fit conveniently on the buggy, wheelers, etc. One for each, since usually I'm reliant on what I'm carrying which isn't much usually, winter kit other than what I'm wearing is typically a large fixed blade, fire steel, and bic lighter. Of course then handgun, mags, pocket knife etc etc, but the first three I add to my normal carry in winter.

    So that's just something else to consider a bit, how you got there is it possible to carry more of a kit or redundancy within a vehicle if that's part of it. For myself vehicles are typically a big part of me getting around here without spending hours to get back and forth around the property etc. So I'm planning some vehicle kits of sorts that will handle some of the basics in a pinch or give me an option to make an easier shelter etc. Might be something additionally to think about.

    Luke
    MichiganI am the owner/proprietor of www.adamsholsters.com Custom holsters made for you. To contact me please use E-mail rather than Private Messages, [email protected]

    MTK20

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #40 on: April 27, 2018, 01:33:44 pm »
    Heat stress is sneaky and completely different than hypothermia from my experiences in hot climates and cold climates. The heat is no problem, no problem then WHAM bad, bad problem within minutes. Where when I hit violent shakes in Alaska, it was a slow slide down to being too cold.

    The nice thing about heat is humans readily adapt to it. If you get used to the heat, keep hydrated, stay in decent shape and watch how hard you push. Then it is really easy to not get heat stress illness. The other big issue is that heat stress in a desert directly sets you up for hypothermia come nightfall. 

    Humans just cannot adapt to cold. We gotta rely on gear or fire to keep us warm enough to function. Humans can easily train to be able to do massive physical activity in insane heat, but there is just no way for us to train to live in cold. We must have the gear to survive in it.


    Good info  :thumbup1.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #41 on: April 27, 2018, 02:33:34 pm »
    This actually brings up something for me I've been meaning to do. Seldom am I out in the woods on foot, at least far from here IE I don't hike much anymore. I mean yeah I've been stranded and hiked several miles back home well 2-3 times during this last winter. But I typically don't hike on purpose;)

    But usually I am on a wheeler, in a truck, etc some sort of vehicle often WAY back in beyond where normal people go or where there might not be another person in that 1,000 acres I happen to be in the middle of or a larger area. Sometimes there isn't anyone closer to me than the house and Sarah;)

    None the less I've been meaning to put together a bit of a survival kit, first aid kit that will fit conveniently on the buggy, wheelers, etc. One for each, since usually I'm reliant on what I'm carrying which isn't much usually, winter kit other than what I'm wearing is typically a large fixed blade, fire steel, and bic lighter. Of course then handgun, mags, pocket knife etc etc, but the first three I add to my normal carry in winter.

    So that's just something else to consider a bit, how you got there is it possible to carry more of a kit or redundancy within a vehicle if that's part of it. For myself vehicles are typically a big part of me getting around here without spending hours to get back and forth around the property etc. So I'm planning some vehicle kits of sorts that will handle some of the basics in a pinch or give me an option to make an easier shelter etc. Might be something additionally to think about.

    Luke
    I actually have a very small personal kit that goes with me plus a larger kit either back at camp or in the truck.  Larger items tend to get left in the camp or truck.   Your situation might be well served by a smallish fanny pack or a small backpack of sorts.  I have even used a messenger bag designed to be slung over one shoulder on a couple of occasions and if you can find one that's well made and allows the strap to be snugged up they work pretty well.  My camp/truck kit would fit in an average boot box or a large shoe box so its not outrageous in terms of size.  And yes, redundancy is part of the equation as you will go through supplies rather quickly when things go sideways so the camp/truck kit definitely has some reserves in it as well as other stuff.  ( bigger better lights, magnifiers, hemostats, compression bandages, etc. )
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Plebian

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #42 on: April 27, 2018, 03:26:17 pm »
    Super useful items I always keep in my pack.

    Trash bags, these things are so damn useful for every damn thing. Rain jacket, water proof a shelter, stuff with leaves and grass to make a sleeping pad etc etc

    Mylar blanket, Super light and crazy warm if used right. Also useful for many ways a trash bag is useful.

    Cordage, I am pretty sure if you have enough cordage and a knife you could restart civilization from scratch.

    Heavy duty ziplock bags, Hold water, carry some foraged food easily, be a pillow if needed or just to plain ole water proof something.

    These are the main things I carry in my pack at work. They get used a ton just camping and hiking about doing collections. Enviro weenies like to complain about plastic, but plastic is amazing stuff and how we lived before it just boggles the mind. 
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    Mikee5star

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #43 on: April 27, 2018, 07:57:56 pm »
    One thing to think about adding to a wheeler, boat or snowmachine kit is tampons.  They are great for dipping down in a gas tank and then using to start a fire.  I know more than one person who has tipped a machine over to get gas out of a fuel tank when wet wood would not start any other way, and it is a pain in the ass for more than one reason.

    Two people in a good sleeping bag is general non-hospital/clinic way to warm up a person who is hypothermic.

    Heat stress is sneaky and completely different than hypothermia from my experiences in hot climates and cold climates. The heat is no problem, no problem then WHAM bad, bad problem within minutes. Where when I hit violent shakes in Alaska, it was a slow slide down to being too cold.

    The nice thing about heat is humans readily adapt to it. If you get used to the heat, keep hydrated, stay in decent shape and watch how hard you push. Then it is really easy to not get heat stress illness. The other big issue is that heat stress in a desert directly sets you up for hypothermia come nightfall. 

    Humans just cannot adapt to cold. We gotta rely on gear or fire to keep us warm enough to function. Humans can easily train to be able to do massive physical activity in insane heat, but there is just no way for us to train to live in cold. We must have the gear to survive in it. 

    Thanks for the good info.  With the exception of people who fell off boats, most of the people I know who got in real trouble with hypothermia had it sneak up on them.  They knew they were cold, but thought if they pushed on just a bit more before stopping they would find shelter.   Then decision making and fine motor control went away and they were in a situation where they had sever problems "saving" themselves. 

    Hydrating is critical in avoiding hypothermia and frost bite.  Might even be more important to stay hydrated in the cold than in the heat.  Fairbanks, AK where my in-laws live often has single digit humidity in the winter, to go with 20-40 degrees below 0 Fahrenheit.

    Humans can adapt to cold more than you may realize.  Perhaps not to the extent and in the same time frames we can adapt to the heat.  Short stocky people do better in extreme cold with minimal outside heat sources, and high fat diets help with staying warm.  Seal oil is like av gas for human beings.  You can go from not feeling your fingers, to working with out gloves. 

    When you look at northern Native peoples, Inuit and Yupik are the ones I am most familiar with but Greenlanders Northern Scandinavians, and Siberians are all similar.  They lived using oil lamps as primary heat and light in their homes.  The Arctic plains are treeless and largely brush free with very limited pockets of coal for traditional, for us, stoves and fireplace. They also used very little heat in their food prep either, simply due to the fact that not much fuel was available.  Most of the time they lived well and in larger communities than other native peoples in spite of the cold climate and lack of "heat".
    Alaska

    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #44 on: April 27, 2018, 08:46:03 pm »
    Yup.  Interesting stuff.   :thumbup1
    Super useful items I always keep in my pack.

    Trash bags, these things are so damn useful for every damn thing. Rain jacket, water proof a shelter, stuff with leaves and grass to make a sleeping pad etc etc

    Mylar blanket, Super light and crazy warm if used right. Also useful for many ways a trash bag is useful.

    Cordage, I am pretty sure if you have enough cordage and a knife you could restart civilization from scratch.

    Heavy duty ziplock bags, Hold water, carry some foraged food easily, be a pillow if needed or just to plain ole water proof something.

    These are the main things I carry in my pack at work. They get used a ton just camping and hiking about doing collections. Enviro weenies like to complain about plastic, but plastic is amazing stuff and how we lived before it just boggles the mind. 
    Correctomundo about the trash bags.   :thumbup1   My mylar blanket is usually wrapped in about four of the 42 gallon size and secured inside of a few ziploc type freezer bags.  Zip ties are also inordinately helpful if you don't have the time to unravel your 550 cord "survival" bracelet.   :facepalm   I also like to have a bit of the high tensile strength fishing line ( think "Spiderwire" or equivalent ) wrapped around something cylindrical.  Its hell for strong and can be used in a lot of instances where you might ordinarily use use something with more stretch and less breaking strength. 
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Plebian

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #45 on: April 27, 2018, 10:25:16 pm »
    Humans can adapt to cold more than you may realize.  Perhaps not to the extent and in the same time frames we can adapt to the heat.  Short stocky people do better in extreme cold with minimal outside heat sources, and high fat diets help with staying warm.  Seal oil is like av gas for human beings.  You can go from not feeling your fingers, to working with out gloves. 

    When you look at northern Native peoples, Inuit and Yupik are the ones I am most familiar with but Greenlanders Northern Scandinavians, and Siberians are all similar.  They lived using oil lamps as primary heat and light in their homes.  The Arctic plains are treeless and largely brush free with very limited pockets of coal for traditional, for us, stoves and fireplace. They also used very little heat in their food prep either, simply due to the fact that not much fuel was available.  Most of the time they lived well and in larger communities than other native peoples in spite of the cold climate and lack of "heat".

    Strip those 'cold adapted' folks down to bare skin, and kick them out in the cold. You will see just how poorly adapted humans are to cold in short order. Humans conquer cold through gear of some sort. We can help ourselves with food, but if we are gonna live we gotta have some gear.

    Lots and lots of humans live as close to nude as imaginable in some very hot and humid climates. No issue with heat stress at all and tend to do quite well with very minimal gear. Humans are built for that heat. It is were we originally evolved.

    A researcher in Kenya lived for an entire year on the savanna with absolutely nothing. He was naked, and never fashioned anything more than a stone flake. He lived fairly well, and kept his weight steady for the entire year. It was to prove that scavenging lifestyle was absolutely possible for early hominids with no greater tool than using in situ stones to crack bones/butcher and gathering plant foods.

    Humans are amazing critters, but cold adapted critters we are not. There is a good reason most of the world's human population still lives within the tropics. The only thing that is gonna save you when it gets cold is your brains and your gear. You might squeak by on physiological adaptation and survive the heat, but the cold is not that forgiving to stupid humans.   
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #46 on: May 22, 2018, 12:15:23 am »
    Well, we are coming into the season of the year where you might - or might not - be able to survive the heat here in the Sonoran desert.  :hmm

      A human being exposed to the elements in the low deserts is going to have to be very savvy and probably very lucky to survive long term here through the summer months.  Shelter is minimal and and water sources are very scarce.  Finding adequate food will require you to forage and hunt unless you are fortunate enough to be near one of the very few year round water sources which will provide increased resources.  Inadequate clothing will result in overheating during the daylight hours and possible hypothermia at night depending on your altitude and ability to make fire as well as frequent injury from a harsh and unforgiving landscape. 

    Historically, most human habitation here was along rivers and creeks or near natural springs.  Long term habitation of the low desert is nearly impossible without access to a reliable, year 'round water supply which will support subsistence agriculture. 
     
    That puts "prepping" in a bit of a different light for me than for a lot of the rest of you.  I can do all of the other stuff we talk about - and I do those things to the best of my ability - but if I can't guarantee my water supply it's all for nothing.  Phoenix has done a pretty remarkable job of putting the infrastructure in place to do that over the years but anything that interrupts the flow of municipal water supplies is going to result in a full on panic pretty quickly.  I try to store enough water to last a month or so but anything beyond that gets to be unworkable in terms of just the amount of space it takes and the logistics of regularly rotating the supplies and replenishing them.  An adult here will easily go through a gallon of water a day in the summer months just in terms of drinking water - not counting the water used for other necessities.  Recycling water from one use to augment something else is a given ( ie: cooking water re-used for sanitation or watering plants ) but even with that its really hard to get usage down to less than 2 gallons per day per adult in the long run.  Some days it just won't work and that doesn't take into account emergencies or evaporation loss or loss due to damaged or worn out storage equipment.

    I don't like it.  It means I can't make a long term plan that doesn't involve:  1) Depending on a functioning municipal water supply 2) Storing enough water to give me a reasonable chance of outlasting the emergency or making a workable contingency plan based upon the prevailing circumstances.  3) Procuring sufficient water from an outside source.   None of those give me a warm fuzzy feeling.  :scrutiny   It's the weak link in my planning and in my current circumstance I don't really know what to do about it.   

    We all have a weak link somewhere.  Care to discuss some of yours?   

    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #47 on: May 24, 2018, 02:08:49 am »
    I share the same issue.  My only suggestion is to make friends with someone with a swimming pool.
    Arizona

    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #48 on: May 24, 2018, 12:59:44 pm »
    I've decided, for now at least, that my best options are water storage sufficient to get me through the first month and then the means to make use of any water I can procure from other sources.  By that I mean the ability to load and transport any surface water I find and the means necessary to render it drinkable.  Floculation, filtration, and decontamination equipment and procedures.

     If the municipal water supply and delivery system holds up - so much the better.  Even if it is not delivering potable water I can use the previously mentioned remediation measures to render it safe.  Swimming pool water can be problematic in terms of contamination - especially old style filtration and chlorination systems.  You get some do-it-yourself goober with no clue who thinks its a good idea to dump a bunch of copper based algae killer in his green pool and you have a problem in terms of using it for drinking except in a dire emergency.   A satellite photograph will show a lot more of those green pools than you might think.   The newer salt based chlorinating systems produce a much cleaner water so its a good idea to be able to recognize that equipment when you see it.

    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

                                                   Benjamin Franklin

    Plebian

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #49 on: May 24, 2018, 01:14:57 pm »
    I've decided, for now at least, that my best options are water storage sufficient to get me through the first month and then the means to make use of any water I can procure from other sources.  By that I mean the ability to load and transport any surface water I find and the means necessary to render it drinkable.  Floculation, filtration, and decontamination equipment and procedures.

     If the municipal water supply and delivery system holds up - so much the better.  Even if it is not delivering potable water I can use the previously mentioned remediation measures to render it safe.  Swimming pool water can be problematic in terms of contamination - especially old style filtration and chlorination systems.  You get some do-it-yourself goober with no clue who thinks its a good idea to dump a bunch of copper based algae killer in his green pool and you have a problem in terms of using it for drinking except in a dire emergency.   A satellite photograph will show a lot more of those green pools than you might think.   The newer salt based chlorinating systems produce a much cleaner water so its a good idea to be able to recognize that equipment when you see it.

    That sounds like a solid idea. We run into similar issues in western OK with water availability problems. The only saving grace out there is the sheer number of water wells drilled about in the country side. If you can supply power. Then you have a decent water source. Only other issues is that many wells drilled for home use only supply about 2-4 gallons per hour of water without running the hole dry and risking sand intrusion OR cave in on old unlined wells.

    I think planning for a month or 2 months is about the top end you should plan. If things are really so bad you need more months than two. The situation is likely very dire and fluid. So all planning done before will be pretty much useless.

    If the zombies come. Then I assume the ability to think and adapt will be much more important than any supplies stocked for use after two months.
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

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