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Author Topic: What Happened to the Preppers?  (Read 10766 times)

MTK20

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What Happened to the Preppers?
« on: March 30, 2018, 10:38:32 pm »
I think it has been years on here since I have seen a prepper thread. While the forum isn't as active as it used to be, what is y'alls summation of the current political landscape?

What is the current largest threat to America and what situation should preppers expect or be preparing for?

I tried to leave this fairly open ended to allow for suggestion and discussion.
Texas
Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #1 on: March 31, 2018, 01:15:13 am »
    Well, to answer the initial question of the thread title, nothing.  "Preppers" are still here and still prepping.  They are still improving their individual situations a bit here and a bit there as they are able.  They are learning new/old skills and refining the ones they already have.  They are acquiring the things they need to bring their plans to fruition.  They are talking to each other and attending "prepper" shows and other events of interest like The Overland Expo ( May 18-20, Flagstaff, Arizona  and November 9-11 near Asheville, North Carolina ).   

    They are a diverse lot and not prone to groupthink beyond the idea that its better to be ready for something that never happens than to be caught with your pants down around your ankles when it actually does happen.  A few here and there might actually be high profile enough to make the local news coverage but most are practically invisible.  They like it that way.   They go quietly and unobtrusively about their business for the most part and don't really say much about it except to encourage those newcomers who have begun to think for themselves and have pertinent questions. 

    The idea that defines them is one we all have in our heads from the time we are big enough to start school and actually learn how the world works.  Its the reason you own a refrigerator and a fire extinguisher and a dinky little first aid kit and a set of jumper cables and a thousand other things - not because you need them right now but because you might need them someday.  Those folks who get labeled "preppers" just happen to be the ones who have taken that line of thought to its logical conclusion. As far as "the current largest threat to America" ?  I have no idea.  Neither does anyone else.  If they say otherwise they are either crazy or trying to sell you something or both.

     Abraham Lincoln from his Lyceum speech in 1836 opined, " Shall we expect some Transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and destroy us at a blow?  Never!  All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth( our own excepted ) with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a contest of a thousand years.   At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer.  If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad.  If destruction be our lot then we must ourselves be its author and finisher.  As a nation of free men we must live through all time or die by suicide.".

    Dramatic to be sure but his point is sound and, I believe, still valid.  In the twenty first century - an age of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction - the most profound threat to America's continued existence is our own folly.  What we have done to ourselves would amount to an act of war had it been imposed upon us by an outside force.   

    What to prepare for?  Good question.  I guess it depends on your own individual situation and what you see as the most immediate threat on the horizon.  Whatever happens there will still be a need for the basic necessities of life if we are to continue.  That is what most prepare for and their preparations are as different as their looks and personalities.  Water, food, clothing, shelter and sanitation are of paramount importance even in the short term.  Without those things life is going to be short, brutal and painful.  To whatever degree those things are available without a daily struggle you may be able to live above a subsistence level and even plan for the future.

    Some folks relocate, some plan to retreat when danger approaches, some plan to shelter in place. Every situation is different.  The only constant is the ability to solve problems and the means to do so.   We explored these ideas to some degree in the "Uprising" thread and some of the stories from the writing prompts in the "Creative Writing" section.  Interesting stuff  - at least it was to me.   :coffee

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    Plebian

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #2 on: March 31, 2018, 02:41:39 am »
    The political landscape is worse than average, but not as bad as it has been before with no severe effects.

    The largest threat to America in general would likely be some sort of disease. That will likely not change for the foreseeable future, and there is basically nothing you can do to prep for it without becoming a hermit.

    Now individuals would be prepping in radically different ways for each environment and location.

    I personally prepare for tornado and power outages. I typically keep a good 2 months+ of easy to prepare food with a good water filter setup. If tornado jacks the power supply up to no end. We can likely go those 2 months pretty easily. I have plenty of wood to keep us warm for 2 months along with cooking food.

    If the time comes we gotta move with just the ole backpacks. Then I am very prepared there. My job basically has me live out of a backpack hiking in for 4 days each week for most of the year. I have one extended trip that is 7 days out of a pack, but that is only 4 times a year. If it is a stream or water hole in Oklahoma. Then I have likely been there done that and tested the water to boot.

    I do not consider myself a prepper at all. It would seem foolhardy and wasteful to lay in tons of supplies for something very likely to never come to pass. Learn all the skills you can, and test those skills often. Stay in shape so you can walk your way out of small troubles if needed. Planning is great and all, but the world rarely presents the things you prepared for in the first place.

    When I hear people describing what a prepper is. I just tend to think we call people like that farmers/ranchers. Maybe because I grew up out in the boonies in western OK that is just seems normal to not be a useless twit, but it sorta seems normal to me to be able to do electrical work, carpentry, masonry, construction etc etc. You know the normal things you do on a Thursday cause dumb dumb hit one side of the barn while moving hay.       
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    Kaso

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #3 on: March 31, 2018, 03:41:39 pm »
    The political landscape is worse than average, but not as bad as it has been before with no severe effects.
    Oh?  I would be interested to hear of when it was this bad.

    Regardless, it may well have been much worse in the past.  It certainly has a lot further that it can go.  What I fear is a 'powder keg effect,' where it can be this bad with no repercussions, just so long as there is no flashpoint incident to set it off.

    As far as preparing for what I hope doesn't happen, I am trying to keep long guns nearby whenever possible.  It doesn't have to be the latest or greatest, just something to provide a deterrent factor at best, or a more effective weapon at worst.

    Plebian

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #4 on: March 31, 2018, 04:18:11 pm »
    Oh?  I would be interested to hear of when it was this bad.

    The entire era of the civil rights movement and Vietnam protest era had the country much more violent overall and divided than we are now. If social media had been around during that time it would have read like the end times were coming.

    Have we had Kent State level shootings, MLK assassination, bloody sundays or the various KKK murders committed during the civil rights era.

    The US is basically at small toddler throwing a fit level compared to the civil rights era unrest.

    I am not too worried about the US. We have some small growling going about but nothing super serious. Europe is the scary thing.

    Nationalist movements are springing up and gaining power all over Europe in response to the mass Muslim immigration being allowed by their governments. Western societies are incredibly good at war, and the last war we had scared the world to its bones. The Muslims are mere flies, impotent and annoying. The European Nationalist movements will be like anaphylaxis from a small bite.

    I think the follies of too much compassion from the Europeans are shining up the goose stepping boots and assembling the snazzy uniforms out of sheer stupidity.     
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    Plebian

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #5 on: March 31, 2018, 04:47:48 pm »
    I just want to say in my very best mom voice to Europe, 'Do you want Nazis? Cause that is how you get Nazis.'
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    MTK20

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #6 on: March 31, 2018, 05:11:43 pm »
    I think the follies of too much compassion from the Europeans are shining up the goose stepping boots and assembling the snazzy uniforms out of sheer stupidity.   

    I've noticed that too. It's funny that while PC culture is trying to softly step on egg shells to not offend the Muslim community, the populace in turn is upset over this preferential treatment and "assembling their uniforms" as you stated.

    Weird how that works out  :hmm .

    I just want to say in my very best mom voice to Europe, 'Do you want Nazis? Cause that is how you get Nazis.'

     :rotfl  :thumbup1
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Mikee5star

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #7 on: March 31, 2018, 05:24:56 pm »
    I don't consider myself a prepper.  But I do live at the end of a long supply chain, so we tend to keep a couple of months of groceries on hand at all time. 

    We also have what is kindly called a homesteader mentality.  Others call it hoarders.  If it costs money and I think I can reuse it, it gets saved.

    I need to double check that the generator is still working, but we should have a few months before life really hits the crapper.  We also have our own water/sewer systems so not reliant on bureaucracy for that, but water is much easier with electricity.  We do have some basic skills, but there are not many raw materials to make things from scratch as described in the article. 

    Remember lots of things were done with out until there was trade.  Also populations were much lower as people could not feed larger populations with out "modern" techniques.  Where I live that means hunter gatherer.  There is little agriculture even with modern equipment and techniques, and historically the only population centers were where there are access to large protein sources, salmon returns and marine mammals.  Everyone else was at least semi-nomadic at best. 

    My best case scenario for major catastrophic event survival, without epidemic level diseases, is 1/1000.  That is world wide.  Here in AK it is probably more like 1/10,000.

    I see no need to "prep" for that kind of calamity.  I prepare for more survivable scenarios, natural disasters and repairable situations.  We are also continuing to grow and develop skills that might make it easier to survive.

    One of the keys to any kind of survival is to have a tribe.  How you grow, develop and govern a tribe is a very critical, but not much talked about element of any preparedness plan. 
    Alaska

    MTK20

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #8 on: March 31, 2018, 06:11:07 pm »
    I've heard it once said that everyone is a prepper, it just depends on the degree, even if they don't realise it. If you have a spare tyre or extra cash on hand then you're a prepper.

    Of course coelacanth basically stated this same thing I  a previous post.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #9 on: April 01, 2018, 01:05:29 pm »
    The entire era of the civil rights movement and Vietnam protest era had the country much more violent overall and divided than we are now. If social media had been around during that time it would have read like the end times were coming.

    Have we had Kent State level shootings, MLK assassination, bloody sundays or the various KKK murders committed during the civil rights era.

    The US is basically at small toddler throwing a fit level compared to the civil rights era unrest.

    I am not too worried about the US. We have some small growling going about but nothing super serious. Europe is the scary thing.

    Nationalist movements are springing up and gaining power all over Europe in response to the mass Muslim immigration being allowed by their governments. Western societies are incredibly good at war, and the last war we had scared the world to its bones. The Muslims are mere flies, impotent and annoying. The European Nationalist movements will be like anaphylaxis from a small bite.

    I think the follies of too much compassion from the Europeans are shining up the goose stepping boots and assembling the snazzy uniforms out of sheer stupidity.     
    There's a reason the TV show "Vikings" is so popular and you can still give a muslim nightmares by invoking the spirit of
    Charles Martel and his progeny.  Even the Romans had enough sense to build Hadrian's wall and not venture beyond it. 

    You are correct about the ability of the west to wage war.  They can hurt you.  Badly.  Fatally if you push them hard enough.   :coffee
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    luke213(adamsholsters)

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #10 on: April 01, 2018, 10:41:06 pm »
    Not mentioned but my concern has always been towards an emp and not likely nuclear more likely natural solar flare style. Knocking out the power grid long term. That's my biggest concern with our current supply setup food wise and thankfully I'm pretty far outside of normal there but cities will be a bad time across the board. Without power it goes bad fast especially if it's widespread.

    And at least from my view that's the most likely thing. As we've had big solar flares in the past and we didn't have the infrastructure that we have today.

    Luke

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #11 on: April 01, 2018, 11:24:09 pm »
    Far fewer nukes are needed to blanket the world with EMPs than people realize.  You don't even need to destroy the grid and electronics, just take it all down at the same time, and it will take a lot of time and effort to restore it.  In that time, millions would probably die from lack of: power, clean water, medicine, communications, transportation, fuel, food and other things I am most likely forgetting.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #12 on: April 02, 2018, 04:03:10 pm »
    All true.  There are many books and videos about this scenario.  Probably the most famous one is "One Second After" by William R. Forstchen.   

    Probably the one closest to my own situation would be "Post Grid: An Arizona EMP Adventure" by Tony and Nancy Martineau

    Scary stuff if you haven't given it any thought up to this point. 
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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #13 on: April 02, 2018, 10:49:48 pm »
    I think it has been years on here since I have seen a prepper thread. While the forum isn't as active as it used to be, what is y'alls summation of the current political landscape?

    I think the current political situation sucks. I also think that isn't anything worse than say when the republicans tried to impeach Clinton. It seems to me that ever since then which ever side you don't like their president can do no right and yours can do no wrong. Perhaps it was just as bad before and I was just to young to notice but it seems to me since then things have gotten very device with no end in sight the country split about 50 50. Though from what I gather it was worse in the civil rights Vietnam era. I would also assume it was worse in the civil war, shays rebellion and, the revolutionary war. 

    What is the current largest threat to America and what situation should preppies expect or be preparing for?

    The situation that I think is most likely is an economic melt down think Venezuela or something along those lines where the dollar is worth very little. We're what 21 TRILLION in debt?. With zero signs of it leveling off much less going down. The insanity is only getting worse to. At this rate sooner or later the interest on the debt will out strip taxes then you are formed. To mention nothing off all the stuff we have promised down the road but not funded.

    The scenario that scares me the most though would be and EMP or nuclear attack. 
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    GeorgeHill

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #14 on: April 03, 2018, 12:31:24 pm »
    I think everyone got quiet when I said I was a Dark Prepper.
     >:D
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    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #15 on: April 03, 2018, 05:09:42 pm »
    I thought that meant you were reading the "Jokes" thread again and memorizing just the really, really bad ones .  .  .  :cool
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    MTK20

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #16 on: April 03, 2018, 05:16:56 pm »
    I thought that meant you were reading the "Jokes" thread again and memorizing just the really, really bad ones .  .  .  :cool

    I just thought he liked Dr. Pepper  :neener .

    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #17 on: April 25, 2018, 03:39:05 pm »
    Let's bring the focus down to a specific item or group of items we all might need to acquire and/or learn how to use properly.  This is a corollary to a thread over at Arizona Gun Owners re: first aid kits for the non-professional.

    What should be included in terms of equipment and supplies and where to obtain them as well as where to go to get educated on how to best employ this stuff in an emergency situation? Are books sufficient or do folks need to get hands on personal training from a professional?

     I'm not a doctor or an EMT and I don't play one on the internet so I'm looking for a way to find this information and condense it into a coherent whole that the layman can understand. 

    The focus will be mainly on general use type stuff but location or circumstance may dictate some changes in what is appropriate ( I live in the Sonoran desert so splinter forceps are a particular area of interest to me just to deal with cactus spines ) for an individual or group.  I have hiked, hunted, fished and camped all over the state of Arizona and parts of New Mexico, Utah and Colorado as well so my perspective is relative to that body of experience but I'd like to hear more about yours or one you have found valuable.

    One question that occurs to me is whether its better to assemble everything a la carte or start with a pre-assembled basic kit and add or subtract items as needed or desired?  Clearly having some basic knowledge of both first aid procedures and what is likely to be needed in your individual situation would be helpful here. 

    Free form discussion is encouraged here because I've never met anyone I didn't learn something from.   :cool

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    Chief45

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #18 on: April 25, 2018, 05:07:57 pm »
    I'd ask the underlying situation first.

    End of the World as We Know it ? 

    or camping / hiking, in remote areas but the medical professionals are still available ?

    Since the thread is preppers,  I'm guessing we are still talking EOTWAWKI.

    for a start, and going to the worst case, I'd suggest you start with the Boy Scout handbook sections on first aid.   Then move on to something like this "special-operations-forces-medical-handbook"
    From there,  it's going to be a matter of how much time and money you have to invest in this.

    Anything beyond basic first aid, stop the bleed, stabilize for transport and treatment, is going to be, , , , interesting ?  disheartening ? mind blowing / heart breaking ? 
    look at the level's we work with now.
    first aid on scene.   stop the blood.
    EMS on scene.  stabilize, transport.
    ER.   and even your local ER might transport to a higher level trauma center.
    who might need to send that patient to surgery, and they will then require post-op level care and treatment.

    with a major breakdown point anywhere along the line that can result in death of the patient.   
    Look at what the causes of death were in the frontier days.

    and really, very very few people will have the level of training and supplies available to make anything major a survivable event.



     

     
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    Chief45

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #19 on: April 25, 2018, 05:19:17 pm »
    ever read Pat Frank's   Alas Babylon ?

    scene in there where the Dr., who has the training,  has to improvise the tools and equipment and still fails,  but there is always the next time. .
    KansasUN-Retired LEO.

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    wyatt

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #20 on: April 25, 2018, 05:48:10 pm »
    ever read Pat Frank's   Alas Babylon ?

    scene in there where the Dr., who has the training,  has to improvise the tools and equipment and still fails,  but there is always the next time. .

    Excellent book!

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #21 on: April 25, 2018, 06:08:08 pm »
    They are mainly keeping a lower profile and not advertising that they are prepping.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #22 on: April 25, 2018, 06:08:50 pm »
    I'd ask the underlying situation first.

    End of the World as We Know it ? 

    or camping / hiking, in remote areas but the medical professionals are still available ?

    Since the thread is preppers,  I'm guessing we are still talking EOTWAWKI.

    for a start, and going to the worst case, I'd suggest you start with the Boy Scout handbook sections on first aid.   Then move on to something like this "special-operations-forces-medical-handbook"
    From there,  it's going to be a matter of how much time and money you have to invest in this.

    Anything beyond basic first aid, stop the bleed, stabilize for transport and treatment, is going to be, , , , interesting ?  disheartening ? mind blowing / heart breaking ? 
    look at the level's we work with now.
    first aid on scene.   stop the blood.
    EMS on scene.  stabilize, transport.
    ER.   and even your local ER might transport to a higher level trauma center.
    who might need to send that patient to surgery, and they will then require post-op level care and treatment.

    with a major breakdown point anywhere along the line that can result in death of the patient.   
    Look at what the causes of death were in the frontier days.

    and really, very very few people will have the level of training and supplies available to make anything major a survivable event.



     

     
    I assume that getting proper training allows you to know where to draw the line, so to speak, in terms of what you can do.  EOTWAWKI is certainly a game changing consideration but even garden variety emergencies such as storms, fires, floods, earthquakes and the like need to be prepared for by those of us who intend to survive them. 

    I don't intend to invest tens of thousands of dollars in equipment and education at this point.  I already know some stuff and already have some of the stuff I need but I'm an old fart who's been doing this for years and some of the younger folks need a place to grab hold of this issue.  The reason I picked this one is its something that pertains to just about 100% of us regardless our personal situation.  Seemed like a good place to start an exercise in "prepping".   :hmm
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Plebian

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #23 on: April 25, 2018, 07:12:47 pm »
    I worked as an EMT for a few years. It is not hard to get an injured individual stable enough to get them to someplace/someone that knows how to do more than just patch holes.

    I think much past a hole patching and they can heal on their own injury. The injured fellow is pretty much dead in a bad situation with no higher medical care.

    Do we have any folks on the board trained higher up to paramedic or further?

    I only ever trained to EMT-B which is like 6 months, and is a pretty good idea for anyone IMO. It just gives you a good idea how to patch someone a bit, and to somewhat get an idea of just how screwed up they are.   
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    luke213(adamsholsters)

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    Re: What Happened to the Preppers?
    « Reply #24 on: April 25, 2018, 08:26:26 pm »
    For myself medical wise, I've got some training years ago in the boy scouts we went through basic first aid, along with emergency prep etc. But we also took it a fair bit further than the normal boy scout training since we're remote and it was felt that we likely could encounter something more than that. I also did a fair bit of learning on more advanced medical stuff when Sarah was in school since I was more less along for the ride when she did her RN and LPN so I learned allot of academic stuff there. I've got a good buddy of mine that was a doc, well still is, but he's not practicing currently and we've spent extended times talking about various things related to this also. That said I'm by no means prepared for anything in my opinion but I've got enough knowledge to know what I know and what I don't;)

    That all said was to get to my plan in the case of needing emergency medicine in a situation like we're talking about. I'd do the immediate what I can in the field, get the person or myself to my wife if at all possible so she could take over the immediate, and then head to my buddies place as quickly as possible. The downside to this plan is distance, he's around 60 miles away. That said pending transportation isn't an issue that's possible either via primary roads or back roads. In a situation to be honest I don't expect the main issues to be too bad out here we're rural, very rural and the span between he and I is also very rural depending on which roads are taken. So the options are there for him to be able to take care of most things. His background is quite broad from working in the ER in Chicago working on GSW's etc, along with more general care etc.

    So in my case that I think is the best approach to getting specialized care pending it was needed, and well he's well prepared for other situations as well. So if anyone in his neck of the woods is around post some sort of event I suspect he would be.

    Luke
    MichiganI am the owner/proprietor of www.adamsholsters.com Custom holsters made for you. To contact me please use E-mail rather than Private Messages, [email protected]

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