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Author Topic: Uninvited Entry by LEO  (Read 7854 times)

Chief45

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Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2011, 12:53:53 am »
well, at least it won't be Federal.   Federal agents are (generally) prohibited from executing Federal search warrants between the hours of 10 PM and 6 AM.  

Rule 41 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure. adopted December 2009.
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    FMJ

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #26 on: January 03, 2011, 01:10:40 am »
    I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.



    :neener


    Ok, back to the thread...
    CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

    Precious Roy

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #27 on: January 03, 2011, 04:01:26 am »
    Hey!  You've been taking pictures of my doormats!
    If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.

    Car 4

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #28 on: January 03, 2011, 08:23:48 am »
    In 30 years of police work for a major metropolitan sheriff's office, I have long since forgotten how many times I have supervised a raid. But in all that time, only once did it turn out to be a problem. I made the mistake of relying on an intel weenie from another well respected agency for eyes on  the house. As we arrived (I was 3rd in) I observed two of my shooters about to hook up a darling 75 year old couple getting into their caddy in front of their immaculate home. I managed to stop that little faux pas when the real badguy stepped out onto his front porch NEXT DOOR to see what all the ruckus was about. We captured him, called the prosecutor and annotated the warrant and did the search.

    I NEVER again, EVER again did a raid where I didn't personally go see what we going to be doing. Only one out of how many? But one was enough even for a shop like mine with a golden reputation.


    Car 4 :hide
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    Langenator

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #29 on: January 03, 2011, 08:30:10 am »

    If we (my team) is serving a search warrant we surround and call out the occupants before we move in and begin clearing the structure.  There shouldn't be any question of our identity.  Not many rip off teams pull an a fully marked police armored car in your front yard and broadcast loud PA announcements of who we are and what address we want the occupants to come out of.  There are usually at least two fully marked squad cars with red and blues
    blinking.  Depending on the circumstances and intel from other occupants we may deploy LSDDs and chemical agents to get people hiding inside to exit.  We don't do dynamic searches for warrants.  It's a slow and deliberate search clearing a structure.  

    The OPs dilemma is one of the reasons the NTOA recommends surround and calls for search warrants.  If you shoot at a cop during an operation like one of ours you are trying to kill a cop and you will be dealt with accordingly...

    Funny thing is, that's almost the exact procedure our special ops guys (Rangers and SEALs, plus SAS, not D-boy types) use in Afghanistan, except in rare cases.  Amazing how many of those guys give themselves up.
    TexasFortuna Fortis Paratus

    hrswhsprr

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #30 on: January 03, 2011, 11:01:34 am »
    In my humble opinion, one wrong raid is one too many. The common opinion on this site is that our rights come before our sense of security. Therefore, I believe that my home is my fortress and anyone that enters uninvited is an intruder. Having worked in law enforcement for 20+ years still doesn't make me believe that anyone including LEO has the right to enter without an invite. The risk of violating my rights doesn't equate to apprehending a drug dealer. This is what is wrong (IMHO) with our society. We constantly give up our rights little by little in the false name of security. Our founding fathers had a problem with the British kicking in doors and arresting people. I think that the idea of the surround and call out should be the rule. This way there will little problems and most of the time the B/G will be arrested. It seems to be for LEO to say oops when they enter the wrong house, shoot the wrong person etc. but apparently if a home owner shoots a LEO entering their house illegally they are sent to jail. Not right as far as I am concerned. If it is right to send the home owner to jail for this, then when LEO makes a wrong entry, shoots the wrong person, then all concerned should pay the price. The original concept for police was to be peace officers. Then our government got the idea that they could pass all sorts of laws that rule our lives. Many are well intentioned however miss placed. We pass laws that mandate safety concerns instead of making people take responsibility for their actions. The drug war can't be won but look at all of the money that Local, State and Feds spend in officers, equipment etc. This is the same problem as prohibition. Enough of my soap box.  :banghead

    Doug Wojtowicz

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #31 on: January 03, 2011, 11:46:52 am »
    If you want "armor" against wrongful LEO entry, look for other wrongful entries in your area, then join them in a filing of a class action lawsuit.  You could get other, law abiding citizens in the area to get either punitive damages (which lowers the budget for SWAT crap), or the lawsuit itself makes for a major change in policy regarding ninja raids.

    As for dealing with "the war on drugs" what has to be considered is we're not looking at the drugs being the problem in themselves - we have to realize that the laws in need of enforcement are dealing with homicide and attempted homicide.  Sentencing per drugs is a feel good, spend time in the bathroom with a skin mag measure passed by politicians, and they have to be called on their self-aggrandizing moronic tendencies.  Putting these idiots behind bars should be for murder and attempted murder.
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    gunner03

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #32 on: February 11, 2011, 01:35:56 am »
      There was a case in mpls a couple of years ago where police hit the wrong house and at least one got shot. Nobody got killed and there were no charges filed. May have had something to do with a language barrier, but the home owner was not persecuted.   

    SuperNaut

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #33 on: February 11, 2011, 10:58:26 am »
    In my humble opinion, one wrong raid is one too many.

    Agree with everything you wrote 100%
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    Thernlund

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #34 on: February 11, 2011, 01:43:38 pm »
    ...but the home owner was not persecuted.   

    Persecuted?  Or Prosecuted?  There's a fine distinction to be made here.  ;)


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    Gunnguy

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #35 on: February 11, 2011, 03:02:32 pm »
    Persecuted?  Or Prosecuted?  There's a fine distinction to be made here.  ;)


    -T.

    Agree with you there. But as in Chicago, Cleveland, Cinn City, and other places I have heard of, there seems to be a use or should I say abuse of police swat teams for political or strong arm means. Innocent people have been raided, some more than once, all in the guise of LEO mistakes. The teams are doing what they are told, but the raids happen anyway because the mayor/chief of police/prosecutor's office/councilman's office, etc...etc...etc. Nothing like informing your opponent or competition that you can make their lives a living nightmare. Like a fellow here in Fort Wayne had the same last name as a wanted felon, had a first name with the same first letter. They raided his home (wrong home btw ,is was his parent's home) and arrested him. He showed them his ID, his birth certificate, his SS card, his parents vouched for him even, no dice. He went to jail. They got to the hearing and started on all the bad things that he had done. They asked how he wanted to plead. He said, "I'm not that guy! You got the wrong man!". The prosecutor, Judge, and even the court officer laughed! LAUGHED! As if he was trying to come up with a novel way to get out of it all. Again they asked how he wanted to plead. Again he stated he wasn't that man. The judge put him in jail for 3 days for contempt of court. In 3 days, it all happened again. Back in jail he went. In the mean time his mom and dad got a mortgage on their home and paid a lawfirm $5000 up front to help their son. When the lawyer went to the prosecutor's office he was laughed all the way out the door. That pissed him off. He called in the entire law firm, gave back the $5000, and told them it was now 'Gratis'. Currently they are in negotiations for settling a multimillion ($250,000,000) dollar lawsuit with the state, county, and city. All because the people wouldn't read the damned id's and very fingerprints and photos!

    Sorry, but I really feel for the LEO's who have to put up with the attitudes of the Lawyers and Court systems.

    Edit: I ranted a little so please forgive me. I just can't stand injustices.
    Reedit: It was for 2.5 million not 250 million. To many zeros, sorry. And I can't the reference in the local news media no more.Been about 4 or so years, so I haven't heard anything recent.
    « Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 09:04:04 pm by Gunnguy »
    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

    Thernlund

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #36 on: February 11, 2011, 03:14:58 pm »
    I don't disagree.  Often times the guy on the ground can be a victim of the bureaucracy.


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    Outbreak

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #37 on: February 13, 2011, 10:26:32 pm »
    I live in a pretty quiet chunk of suburbia, so the chance of a wrong-address raid seems to be higher. I came close to pulling into the neighbor's garage almost every time I came home for the first 6 months or so that I lived there.

    I know my neighbors, and work with about half of them. Lot's of .mil in the neighborhood. We call it "base housing- south." So the chances of any warrant being served in the neighborhood are slim.

    There have been reported incidents of people casing homes (including mine) but no reports of break ins or burglaries that I know of.

    All that said, my plan for any invasion attempt, cops or criminals, is pretty straightforward. My bedroom is the furthest from the front door. My bathroom and closet are even farther.

    Plan is grab gun(s) and cell phone, which both live next to the bed, and get back into the bathroom, and call 911. Gives me a couple seconds before I have to shoot. If they're cops, they'll find me pretty quickly. If they're criminals, they'll probably pause in the living room to get the TV and laptop, or go to work on the safe in the furthest room from my room.

    I have no desire to confront the invaders, and the only thing I will defend with force is my life. Insurance will cover the rest.
    TexasOutbreak

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    Gunnguy

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    Re: Uninvited Entry by LEO
    « Reply #38 on: February 14, 2011, 12:54:24 am »
    Only good house thieves are dead house thieves.
    They know the drill pretty well.

    Thieves risk death for a lousy WII or Laptop.
    I'd say if they get killed in the process it's all Darwinism at it's best.
    Less money for prosecution or incarceration.
    One more thief off of the street and out of society's misery permanently.
    I have no sympathy for people who make a living breaking into other people's homes.
    To many innocents get hurt cause 'Bubba' had to get a WII to hock for some beer or drugs.
    Meanwhile insurance companies jack the rates cause of rising home robberies.

     :banghead

     
    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

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