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Author Topic: Tourniquets for EDC.  (Read 16693 times)

MTK20

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Tourniquets for EDC.
« on: September 02, 2017, 12:02:28 pm »
I'm considering carrying a tourniquet with me in my daily travels, as it is a necessary piece of gear that has been missing from my load out for quite some time.

I want one that is well rated and that I can carry on me, daily.

I'm thinking of a RAT tourniquet, carried in my pocket.



Or a CAT tourniquet carried on my calf, like I have seen some LEO's do.



I've been meaning to add one of these for a while, and honestly, I should have done it sooner. I can't legally carry my gun everywhere, but I can make sure that I have medical care if I get injured.

Thoughts?
Texas
Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    freeman1685

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #1 on: September 02, 2017, 03:18:03 pm »
    You'd do better stocking up on bandages, gauze pads, even feminine care products (pads).  A tourniquet is the last thing you would use, short of a lost limb, or an arterial bleed.  Once one is applied, only a doctor should remove it.  It is the last resort, the very last.  You're asking for a nasty case of necrosis, or even gangrene.
    ArizonaStupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education or by legislation.  Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.  But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.  RAH

    Kaso

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #2 on: September 02, 2017, 04:14:30 pm »
    I think Chris is probably the most qualified among us to know when and how to apply a tourniquet.  As well as be aware of the potential consequences.

    MTK20

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #3 on: September 02, 2017, 04:39:04 pm »
    I think Chris is probably the most qualified among us to know when and how to apply a tourniquet.  As well as be aware of the potential consequences.

    Thanks Eric  :thumbup1.

    Necrosis and sufficient toxin build up doesn't happen until after about 4.5 hours (depending upon whose research you go by, but I personally like to obey the same guidelines as ischemic strokes and fibrinolytic therapy).

    While I am trained in critical care for long term in a hospital situation, I am not talking about long term or SHTF. I am talking about while still under rule of law. If some miscreant shoots or cuts me in my daily travels, cranking down on an artery/limb for the 15 minutes it takes me to get to the hospital won't hurt anything. Leaving an arterial bleed open for those 15 minutes, however, might have some untoward effects on my person that I really don't want. Even if it was a long term SHTF scenario, remember holistic medicine teaches us to save life over limb anyways  ;) .

    This isn't SHTF, apocalypse now, or me asking the proper use and consideration of one, this is merely me asking what tourniquets are highly recommended by the guys who know about them and use them. In the hospital, I don't get to use a tourniquet except the stretchy rubber ones before a venipuncture.... And those don't count for much in the department of GSW's  :neener.

    One of our members on the forum teaches a CCW class and seems to know quite a bit about tourniquets. I forget who it was though  :hmm.

    Back to the original thread question. What make and model of tourniquets do you guys like? Which one's are highly rated that you swear by?
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    LowKey

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #4 on: September 02, 2017, 05:51:15 pm »
    You'd do better stocking up on bandages, gauze pads, even feminine care products (pads).  A tourniquet is the last thing you would use, short of a lost limb, or an arterial bleed.  Once one is applied, only a doctor should remove it.  It is the last resort, the very last.  You're asking for a nasty case of necrosis, or even gangrene.
    IIRC, doctrine on when to apply a tourniquet has changed drastically.   It's no longer the last resort.
    Surgeons in certain ratified fields, hands for example, nave been using them for "bloodless surgery" for quite some time without ill effect.

    If it's a nasty bleed and your in doubt, slap a tourniquet on it, mark he time, and go on with the rest of it and push the patient to higher care.


    Apologies to MK if I stepped on any toes...

    MTK20

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #5 on: September 02, 2017, 06:03:43 pm »
    IIRC, doctrine on when to apply a tourniquet has changed drastically.   It's no longer the last resort.
    Surgeons in certain ratified fields, hands for example, nave been using them for "bloodless surgery" for quite some time without ill effect.

    If it's a nasty bleed and your in doubt, slap a tourniquet on it, mark he time, and go on with the rest of it and push the patient to higher care.


    Apologies to MK if I stepped on any toes...

    No apologies needed  :cool. While I have set foot only a few times in the surgical suite, it is to my understanding that you are pretty spot on with your above statements :thumbup1. I think surgery is cool, but it's not my area of interest.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Plebian

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #6 on: September 02, 2017, 06:21:42 pm »
    Tourniquet on the neck to stop a head wound is somehow not funny to your instructor for some odd reason.  :neener

    I have taken a few wilderness emergency medical classes beyond just my EMT-B I got in college. It would probably be a decent idea to go through certification to EMT-B again. I assume it has changed some in the last 10 years or so.
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    MTK20

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #7 on: September 02, 2017, 07:20:26 pm »
    Tourniquet on the neck to stop a head wound is somehow not funny to your instructor for some odd reason.  :neener

    I have taken a few wilderness emergency medical classes beyond just my EMT-B I got in college. It would probably be a decent idea to go through certification to EMT-B again. I assume it has changed some in the last 10 years or so.

    :rotfl

    I did make that joke in class! Problem is that I have an incredibly dry sense of humour and so I just get looked at funny  :-[ . People are just unappreciative of subtlety and humour, I tell ya  :neener.

    I still maintain the goal to be like ICU nurses. They have the best dry, dark humour in the world. Yes, it has been needed to be explained at unit meetings on the work appropriateness of it, but you have not had a good shift until you've heard a seasoned ICU nurse say "welcome to my field of vegetables!" or "It's ok, I'll just unplug her vent to charge my cell phone" with the flattest expression possible. It takes a special breed  ;).
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    freeman1685

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #8 on: September 02, 2017, 08:24:23 pm »
    OK, so it's been a while.  Christopher, I was unaware of your training.  I haven't been through as advanced courses, but in the training that I've had (both military, and civilian), they said tourniquets are a no-no.
    ArizonaStupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education or by legislation.  Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.  But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.  RAH

    MTK20

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #9 on: September 02, 2017, 08:47:27 pm »
    OK, so it's been a while.  Christopher, I was unaware of your training.  I haven't been through as advanced courses, but in the training that I've had (both military, and civilian), they said tourniquets are a no-no.

    No worries, friend  :cool. Honestly, until just a few years ago I was taught the same thing.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    MTK20

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #10 on: September 02, 2017, 09:00:44 pm »
    I might go with the RAT. I love how compact it looks. I don't think I have to worry about the length on the tourniquet as I have a pretty small frame.

    http://gunguysreviews.com/rats-tourniquet/

    Quote
    If You do live fire training, especially with others doing movements with you, and you do not have an IFAK with a tourniquet then you are full of fail.  We could debate all day long about what medical supplies you should carry in your IFAK, but when it comes to tourniquets there are a few mandatory requirements to consider.  It must be, in no particular order:
    Easy to deploy, even single handedly
    • Durable
    • Reliable
    • Effective
    Generally when you talk about tourniquets, the CAT and SOF tourniquets get the most mentions as they are pretty much the standard.  They are really simple overall to use: pull it out, unfold, slip it over the extremity, adjust it, twist rod to tighten, lock rod into place.

    The Rapid Application Tourniquet, RATS Tourniquet, is a bit of a different beast though to accomplish the same end result.  Instead of a wide, adjustable strap, it is instead a single long piece of narrow, flat, bungee cord.  Instead of a tension rod to twist, it has a cleat that you jam the bungee cord into in order to lock it in place.

    By nature of its compact design, it is easy to carry the RATS TQ by simply rolling it up in a coil that will fit in even a small pouch, like a compass pouch for example.  Pull it out, hold the cleat end, and it’ll unroll itself.  Once deployed, put the far end of the TQ through the loop on the cleat end and then fit it over your extremity.  You then wrap the bungee around the extremity several times to make the wrap wide enough (you’ll want 1.5″ at least) and then jam the cord into the cleat to hold it in place.  Tada, bleeding stopped. It does seem to be a lot faster to deploy, and uses less fine motor skills, than some other TQs that I’ve used.

    We had a few concerns at first about the RATS Tourniquet.  The first was that the 1/2″ bungee cord is pretty narrow and we were afraid of the cord cutting into skin when pressure is applied.  This turned out to be mostly unfounded as the multiple wraps makes the tourniquet wide enough to prevent that from happening though. The only time this was an issue was when Ryan and I tested the RATS Tourniquet on our upper thighs – we both have rather huge legs and due to the length of the TQ, we had to REALLY crank down on the cord to get it into the lock after the 3 wraps needed to make it wide enough on our legs (1.5″ width is recommended to prevent material from cutting into your skin).  That made it way too tight there.  This is caused by the length – if the RATS Tourniquet was extended a couple inches (which the manufacturer said they can do), it would be perfectly fine there.  Used on our arms or below our upper thighs had no issues at all and it worked well.

    Unlike the CAT and SOF tourniquets, no tension rod is used and instead you pull the tourniquet tight and slip it into a metal cleat that will lock it into place. We couldn’t get it to come loose even when we only partially locked it in place (since we needed to keep using the  TQ for additional testing).  The RATS Tourniquet, like other tourniquets, is supposed to be single use and the cleat is designed for that.  Once locked into place, it isn’t going anywhere.  And actually, that would be a huge problem if the manufacturer didn’t have great attention to detail.  Since leaving a tourniquet on too long can be dangerous to the patient, you need a way to be able to remove the tourniquet at some point, and it may be at a time where you don’t have shears to cut it off.  To prevent that issue, the cleat was designed with a notch that allows you to easily bend the cleat out of the way if needed to release the bungee cord.  That’s pretty neat.

    The RATS Tourniquet is very well designed with high quality materials.  The bungee cord is protected with a covering to prevent wear, the bungee cord itself is very durable and hasn’t stretched, cracked or torn from multiple stretches and the metal cleat system is extremely effective.

    When this tourniquet comes up in discussion, I’m always asked what tourniquet I carry.  I do carry a CAT TQ on my plate carrier, because it is a fine tourniquet and easy to deploy as it’s kept outside of any pouches, but I also carry a RATS Tourniquet on my war belt and in the small IFAK I keep in my car.  If I didn’t have a CAT TQ already, I would absolutely consider carrying a RATS Tourniquet in its place.

    A very fast, easy to deploy tourniquet that rivals the other standards out there. Its unique design makes it very compact and uses less fine motor skills to use while still maintaining excellent effectiveness. Our only issue is wrapping it on massive upper thighs, but asking the manufacturer for a longer version will solve that issue - though we think they should be a bit longer by default.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    MTK20

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #11 on: September 02, 2017, 09:01:39 pm »
    There are some dissenting opinions. They have issued an update here, however.

    http://www.itstactical.com/medcom/medical/is-the-r-a-t-s-tourniquet-misleading-consumers-with-tccc-approval/
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    21B

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #12 on: September 02, 2017, 11:44:41 pm »
    I've always carried a CAT since Iraq, usually in my work bag. Last year we finally did tourniquet training at work with our former SF/SWAT medic trainer and we tested out the CAT, SOF, SWAT-T, and RAT. The RAT was by far the quickest to administer, especially for self-aid, and one-handed. So we all ended up with RATs in our IFAKs, and I still carry the CAT in my work bag. Just remember to store the RAT preset with the three finger loop threaded, otherwise it takes a few seconds more to set up and administer.

    MTK20

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #13 on: September 03, 2017, 12:12:08 am »
    I've always carried a CAT since Iraq, usually in my work bag. Last year we finally did tourniquet training at work with our former SF/SWAT medic trainer and we tested out the CAT, SOF, SWAT-T, and RAT. The RAT was by far the quickest to administer, especially for self-aid, and one-handed. So we all ended up with RATs in our IFAKs, and I still carry the CAT in my work bag. Just remember to store the RAT preset with the three finger loop threaded, otherwise it takes a few seconds more to set up and administer.

    This is the kind of feedback I wanted  :thumbup2 .

    How sturdy is the RAT? I have never looked at one in person, but it seems small compared to the others. I will be carrying it in my jeans pocket. Looking at worst case scenario it may get stuffed in the same pocket as my car keys or in my back pocket where it would be sat on, etc. Do you think it could handle this kind of abuse?

    My other option is I would consider carrying a CAT exactly like this officer is at 5:41 on my off ankle (how many people can say they have an 'off ankle'?  :rotfl Then again If I have an off ankle, why isn't there another gun there?  :hmm).

    Warning, video is pretty bloody.




    Final question: Are the RAT and CAT one use only tourniquets? Meaning that I should not 'practice' applying it or else it'll weaken or otherwise fluff it up?

    I really appreciate the input 21B  :cool.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Kaso

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #14 on: September 03, 2017, 01:12:51 am »
    For the record, it will be a cold day in hell before I try to 'save the life' of a perp that just tried to end mine.  Shoot to stop the threat, and stop shooting as soon as the threat ends, and if the attacker subsequently bleeds out and dies, that is a feature, not a bug.

    MTK20

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #15 on: September 03, 2017, 01:43:20 am »
    For the record, it will be a cold day in hell before I try to 'save the life' of a perp that just tried to end mine.  Shoot to stop the threat, and stop shooting as soon as the threat ends, and if the attacker subsequently bleeds out and dies, that is a feature, not a bug.

    I believe that bad guys are like radiation, the longer you are exposed to them, the more dangerous it is. Always fight with the intention to break contact and get the heck out of there.

    That being said, I'm not sure if I could leave another human being to bleed out. I guess it would depend on circumstance, but knowing me, I could see myself trying to help someone who just tried to hurt me. My actions might be noble, and most definitely it would be stupid, but I don't really have to try too hard to have the mindset that I do in the matter  :shrug.

    In the end, the tourniquet is for me or someone I care about first and foremost.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    21B

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #16 on: September 03, 2017, 01:59:21 am »
    The RAT is pretty sturdy, before we had IFAKs I carried mine in my suit coat pocket for months. It is definitely the easiest/lightest/most compact carry out of all the tourniquets we tested. It is up to par and able to deal with EDC, though the metal cleat might poke you now and then. The RAT is super compact when it ships, but once you set it up with the loop & tail, it isn't as flat as pictured (but still smaller that any other tourniquet). I know a high speed person that carries his with the loop & metal cleat poking up outside his waistband, and the long tail down the inside of his pant leg--ready to deploy anytime with ease. I got one of RAT's EDC elastic sleeves to test out, but I ended up using it more for a horizontal mag pouch or to mount my Benchmade SOCP on my suspenders.

    I tried carrying the CAT on my belt, but the velcro kept catching on stuff, or the CAT would unfold and hang down--probably much easier to mount on the ankle (some of our guys use ankle mounted IFAKs). I've trained with my own personal CAT and RAT, and they haven't shown any undue wear and should last a while (eventually the elastic on the RAT might wear out, but probably 5-10 plus years before that happens. The CAT has plastic detents weaved into the fabric that helps hold the torsion bar by friction, that eventually might go bad, but again, this CAT has lasted me 10 years and multiple practice applications).

    As far as re-usability in the real world, I have heard secondhand of an ER doc and first responders using the same RATs multiple times, just making sure they were washed and sanitized after each use. Practice makes perfect, and we did all kinds of timed drills on different appendages, self-application or application to others, one-handed or both hands.

    MTK20

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #17 on: September 03, 2017, 02:13:31 am »
    The RAT is pretty sturdy, before we had IFAKs I carried mine in my suit coat pocket for months. It is definitely the easiest/lightest/most compact carry out of all the tourniquets we tested. It is up to par and able to deal with EDC, though the metal cleat might poke you now and then. The RAT is super compact when it ships, but once you set it up with the loop & tail, it isn't as flat as pictured (but still smaller that any other tourniquet). I know a high speed person that carries his with the loop & metal cleat poking up outside his waistband, and the long tail down the inside of his pant leg--ready to deploy anytime with ease. I got one of RAT's EDC elastic sleeves to test out, but I ended up using it more for a horizontal mag pouch or to mount my Benchmade SOCP on my suspenders.

    I tried carrying the CAT on my belt, but the velcro kept catching on stuff, or the CAT would unfold and hang down--probably much easier to mount on the ankle (some of our guys use ankle mounted IFAKs). I've trained with my own personal CAT and RAT, and they haven't shown any undue wear and should last a while (eventually the elastic on the RAT might wear out, but probably 5-10 plus years before that happens. The CAT has plastic detents weaved into the fabric that helps hold the torsion bar by friction, that eventually might go bad, but again, this CAT has lasted me 10 years and multiple practice applications).

    As far as re-usability in the real world, I have heard secondhand of an ER doc and first responders using the same RATs multiple times, just making sure they were washed and sanitized after each use. Practice makes perfect, and we did all kinds of timed drills on different appendages, self-application or application to others, one-handed or both hands.

    Fantastic, thanks!

    I really like the idea of setting up the 3 finger loop and then feeding the rest down my pant leg while the 'samurai hat' sits in the waistband. That sounds really unique and like it would be the most gentle on the RAT.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    LowKey

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #18 on: September 03, 2017, 08:50:11 am »
    For the record, it will be a cold day in hell before I try to 'save the life' of a perp that just tried to end mine.  Shoot to stop the threat, and stop shooting as soon as the threat ends, and if the attacker subsequently bleeds out and dies, that is a feature, not a bug.
    I fully concur.

    I like to think of it falling under "Toyota's Law".

    MTK20

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #19 on: September 03, 2017, 10:54:43 am »
    I like the timing of this video  :cool.



    TL;DR

    Officer in car is dealing with perp who wiggled out of handcuffs. The two get into a fight and the officer gets his eyes badly gouged. Officer pulls firearms and blindly gives the perp the room temperature challenge. Buddy is behind the perp while the criminal is shot and takes a bad hit from his blind partner. A TQ is used on hit partner.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    LowKey

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #20 on: September 03, 2017, 12:05:28 pm »
    I like the timing of this video  :cool.



    TL;DR

    Officer in car is dealing with perp who wiggled out of handcuffs. The two get into a fight and the officer gets his eyes badly gouged. Officer pulls firearms and blindly gives the perp the room temperature challenge. Buddy is behind the perp while the criminal is shot and takes a bad hit from his blind partner. A TQ is used on hit partner.
    The partner should be carrying his TQ where he can access it himself with either hand and apply it to himself.

    Easy to say that as I sit on my sofa and hindsight being 20/20 and so forth, but quite seriously things like TQs and blow out kits should be something you can grab and apply to yourself with either hand.  You can't count on anybody being there to help you. 

    MTK20

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #21 on: September 03, 2017, 12:23:12 pm »
    The partner should be carrying his TQ where he can access it himself with either hand and apply it to himself.

    Easy to say that as I sit on my sofa and hindsight being 20/20 and so forth, but quite seriously things like TQs and blow out kits should be something you can grab and apply to yourself with either hand.  You can't count on anybody being there to help you.

    Couch commentator #2 reporting in: I have never been shot before, so I am sure that messes with a guys perception, but the poor partner was literally 'flying blind' when he applied that TQ. The whole reason I want to carry one is so that I don't have to beg anyone to borrows theirs. I don't think all cops carry a TQ, so I definitely can't expect all cake eating civilians to.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    LowKey

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #22 on: September 03, 2017, 01:25:05 pm »
    I have never been shot before, so I am sure that messes with a guys perception..
    I've limited experience with it, in my case felt like getting hit with a baseball bat followed by a burning/throbbing sensation.  I imagine it varies greatly depending on where and what gets hit.

    Focus did seem to sharpen rather than fade....

    freeman1685

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #23 on: September 03, 2017, 01:55:22 pm »
    I've limited experience with it, in my case felt like getting hit with a baseball bat followed by a burning/throbbing sensation.  I imagine it varies greatly depending on where and what gets hit.

    Focus did seem to sharpen rather than fade....

    Yeah, adrenaline can have that effect.
    ArizonaStupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education or by legislation.  Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.  But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.  RAH

    ETCss McCrackin

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    Re: Tourniquets for EDC.
    « Reply #24 on: September 03, 2017, 10:25:44 pm »
    For clarity, I have what many would consider the minimum with respect to medical training, so my opinion is worth exactly what is being paid for it. 

    However, I have the RAT, the CAT and the SWAT, and while the CAT is definitely the best/most effective, they will all almost certainly work.  Carrying them daily however, just like everything we carry, means evaluating the need vs the effort to execute.  Would we all like for example, a 7.62 MBR, 1000 rounds and an 18 round modern autopistol as a backup?  Sure, but life doesn't always allow it, and even if it did, would you tolerate the hassle for such a small percentage problem? 

    Therefore, I have a CAT in my vehicles and range bag, the RAT + Compression bandage in my uniform pants, and the SWAT-T + QuikClot bandage in my EDC packet.  The uniform and EDC are wrapped in a heavy duty elastic band that keeps them "relatively" slim (about the size of a wallet).  The RAT, for as small as you think it could wrap up, is actually surprisingly bulky (although way less then a CAT), so I have it wrapped around the periphery of a compression bandage for a package 5x4, and about an inch thick.   

    The SWAT-T is smaller, and honestly more useful because of it's printed instructions and the capability for it to be used as simple wide compression rather than a TQ.  It "moves" in a pocket, and is therefore more comfortable to carry.  In my pocket, it is in the same elastic paired with a Quikclot bandage, with a band sewed on to serve as a mag holder, which all fits into a back pocket.   

    It seems paranoid to carry a TQ or even medical stuff at all, but when you think about the crap we go through to "maybe" put holes in an attacker, it's not that far off to imagine yourself or a loved one being injured horribly, from everything from a Haji bullet to a car wreck.  You can't shoot your way out of a vehicle accident where your kid is suffering an amputation that's bleeding out. 
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
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