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Author Topic: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.  (Read 7914 times)

luke213(adamsholsters)

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Re: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2017, 06:06:13 pm »
G26 is pretty large I think, but size is less of an issue than weight. Now there is also is it possible or is it good, much like pocket carry. You can carry a G26 in the pocket, but it's way too big and heavy in my opinion to be the right choice. Fine other positions but I think too big for pocket.

Ankle I suspect will be the same, but I haven't run one in this rig yet. So once I do more testing I'll know for sure at least my take on it. But I suspect too big and heavy to be really comfortable and practical.

Luke
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    Kaso

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    Re: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.
    « Reply #26 on: July 09, 2017, 08:23:36 pm »
    Is it too big? I wouldn't know, I've never tried it.

    I thought most cops switched from the 642 to the Glock 26 for ankle carry.
    Maybe they have, but even so a cop's ankle gun is more about backup and less about concealment - he is already wearing a vest, uniform and a full size pistol.  As well, a cop is likely wearing boots, and the weight of the gun will ride on the top of the boot.

    luke213(adamsholsters)

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    Re: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.
    « Reply #27 on: July 09, 2017, 08:30:18 pm »
    Also I'd say the likelihood of needing a backup and a more capable backup than say a j frame is higher with law enforcement.

    I'll know with more testing but I'd say probably it will be pretty large and heavy for ankle. So not that it's not possible just might not be forget about wearing it level of comfort.

    Take care

    Luke

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    MTK20

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    Re: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.
    « Reply #28 on: July 10, 2017, 04:48:01 pm »
    Adding to the thread drift from previously, here is a video I found with multiple victims of a stabbing.

    I still think having someone come at you with a blade, is probably one of the scariest things that could happen to you.

    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Plebian

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    Re: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.
    « Reply #29 on: July 10, 2017, 06:10:29 pm »
    You sit in the pocket and you are gonna get hit/shanked/kicked. There are many more ways to move than forward and backward.It is much easier to move side to side and fight one hand at a time than both at once. 

    Also if what you got looks like a spear then use it like one. Brooms, mops and various tools on a pole are all pokey pokey weapons NOT slappy slappy weapons.

    A good solid thrust from something like a wooden broom handle or mop handle can put a lot of force on a small impact area. It also allows you to keep your point inline with the target and maintain range. If you got the room to do anything near a half step and thrust like the fellow in the video. Then you got decent odds of impaling the fellow with even a blunt wooden handle. A thrusting wooden pole can change area of attack much quicker than anyone can parry or block. So keep that tip agile and even a light thrust to the eye socket/throat can change the outlook of the fight. 

    The only real certainty of a knife fight is you are gonna get cut. If at all possible you do the choosing where you get cut and not the attacker.   
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    First Shirt

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    Re: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.
    « Reply #30 on: July 11, 2017, 09:33:28 pm »

    The only real certainty of a knife fight is you are gonna get cut. If at all possible you do the choosing where you get cut and not the attacker.   

    A very wise Army SSgt once told me "There's only two kinds of people who scare me in a knife fight.  The ones who know what they're doing, and the ones who don't have a clue.  The first ones you can beat, just resign yourself to getting cut.  The second one?  They may swallow the damn thing and shoot it at you out of their a$$." 

    And since he looked like he'd been cut more than once, I took what he said as gospel, and try to avoid both types.
    « Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 10:07:56 pm by First Shirt »
    Alabama"Stand your ground!  Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!"  Capt. John Parker

    MTK20

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    Re: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.
    « Reply #31 on: July 11, 2017, 09:47:22 pm »
    A very wise Army SSgt once told me "There's only two kinds of people who scare me in a knife fight.  The ones who know what they're doing, and the ones who don't have a clue.  The first ones you can beat, just resign yourself to getting cut.  The second one?  They may swallow the damn thing and shoot it at you out of their a$$." 

    And since he looked like he'd been cut more than once, I took what he said as gospel, and try to avoid both types.

     :shocked
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    First Shirt

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    Re: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.
    « Reply #32 on: July 12, 2017, 07:17:11 pm »
    Fixed it, so it makes more sense.  Sorry!
    Alabama"Stand your ground!  Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!"  Capt. John Parker

    GaBoy45

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    Re: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.
    « Reply #33 on: July 13, 2017, 12:46:25 pm »
    Here's my humble $.02 on BUG's. I took the advice of many senior LEO's and started carrying a BUG on duty as soon as I was able (in my department they wouldn't approve a backup till after field training). I've tried different firearms and methods of carry over the last four years. These are the conclusions I've come up with:

    Firearms:

    Something compact is the order of the day. I know a few deputies who carry the Glock 26 on their ankle. They're thinking is along the lines of mag compatibility with our duty weapon and handling familiarity. But the thing to think about is that a very well built ankle holster is a must. The Galco ankle glove is the go to for heavier BUGs. It's sturdy and comfortable. I've been in more than few foot pursuits and fights where it never budged. However, our uniform pants are roomy and allow for the bulkier 26 to not show. In jeans and some pants it works but low top shoes help with jeans (on a side note boot cut or loose fit jeans work better with a revolver or bulkier ankle gun than the normal straight fit). I personally swear by a snub nose. I usually carry a S&W 640 but recently switched to a M&P 340 while the 640 is getting some work done. The 640 is a steel frame but carries well in my Galco. I prefer the revolver because the ankle can pick up a lot of mud, sand and general gunk being on the ankle. I've had the 640 and holster caked in mud and it still shot. A lot of the guys have gone to the Glock 42 or 43 for various reasons I'll cover in the carry methods. The M&P shield is another popular one. A few carry the Glock 36 but they are mostly our narcotics guys who carry they're SWAT issued Glock 21 rather than the 17 everybody is issued.

    Methods of Carry:

    1. Ankle Carry- a good quality ankle holster is a must. It works for me on duty because it is actually easier to draw seated in my patrol car than my duty weapon. Also, I cannot make use of the pockets on my patrol pants due to the setup of my duty belt. I can draw my knives easily enough but other than that the pockets are pretty much useless. Off duty I Carry if I'm wearing dress shoes or tennis shoes provided the pants legs are cut in a way that makes it somewhat easy to draw.

    2. Pocket carry- Some guys utilize this but not as popular. However, plain clothes investigators utilize this way pretty often. For normal everyday CCW this method works the best, IMHO. The Desantis Nemesis is a good holster for this. However you do lose a pocket as I wouldn't carry anything in this pocket other than the firearm. I really take advantage of this in winter months when I wear a jacket or hoody as it allows me to have my firearm in hand without attracting undue attention.

    3. Vest/Belly band- I know of a few who utilize the belly band but it doesn't really allow for any faster of a draw than your primary but does allow a BUG to be carried.

    While there are some trainers/writers, whose advice and expertise I appreciate, don't advocate a BUG for most people, I see the value in it. It's the same reason I have a GPS but also keep paper maps in my vehicle.


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    coelacanth

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    Re: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.
    « Reply #34 on: July 14, 2017, 02:16:12 pm »
    Excellent input from someone who's "been there and done that".  Thanks.   :thumbup1
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    MTK20

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    Re: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.
    « Reply #35 on: July 14, 2017, 02:43:19 pm »
    Here's my humble $.02 on BUG's. I took the advice of many senior LEO's and started carrying a BUG on duty as soon as I was able (in my department they wouldn't approve a backup till after field training). I've tried different firearms and methods of carry over the last four years. These are the conclusions I've come up with:

    Firearms:

    Something compact is the order of the day. I know a few deputies who carry the Glock 26 on their ankle. They're thinking is along the lines of mag compatibility with our duty weapon and handling familiarity. But the thing to think about is that a very well built ankle holster is a must. The Galco ankle glove is the go to for heavier BUGs. It's sturdy and comfortable. I've been in more than few foot pursuits and fights where it never budged. However, our uniform pants are roomy and allow for the bulkier 26 to not show. In jeans and some pants it works but low top shoes help with jeans (on a side note boot cut or loose fit jeans work better with a revolver or bulkier ankle gun than the normal straight fit). I personally swear by a snub nose. I usually carry a S&W 640 but recently switched to a M&P 340 while the 640 is getting some work done. The 640 is a steel frame but carries well in my Galco. I prefer the revolver because the ankle can pick up a lot of mud, sand and general gunk being on the ankle. I've had the 640 and holster caked in mud and it still shot. A lot of the guys have gone to the Glock 42 or 43 for various reasons I'll cover in the carry methods. The M&P shield is another popular one. A few carry the Glock 36 but they are mostly our narcotics guys who carry they're SWAT issued Glock 21 rather than the 17 everybody is issued.

    Methods of Carry:

    1. Ankle Carry- a good quality ankle holster is a must. It works for me on duty because it is actually easier to draw seated in my patrol car than my duty weapon. Also, I cannot make use of the pockets on my patrol pants due to the setup of my duty belt. I can draw my knives easily enough but other than that the pockets are pretty much useless. Off duty I Carry if I'm wearing dress shoes or tennis shoes provided the pants legs are cut in a way that makes it somewhat easy to draw.

    2. Pocket carry- Some guys utilize this but not as popular. However, plain clothes investigators utilize this way pretty often. For normal everyday CCW this method works the best, IMHO. The Desantis Nemesis is a good holster for this. However you do lose a pocket as I wouldn't carry anything in this pocket other than the firearm. I really take advantage of this in winter months when I wear a jacket or hoody as it allows me to have my firearm in hand without attracting undue attention.

    3. Vest/Belly band- I know of a few who utilize the belly band but it doesn't really allow for any faster of a draw than your primary but does allow a BUG to be carried.

    While there are some trainers/writers, whose advice and expertise I appreciate, don't advocate a BUG for most people, I see the value in it. It's the same reason I have a GPS but also keep paper maps in my vehicle.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Thank for your input!  :thumbup1
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    First Shirt

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    Re: Thoughts on Civilians and BUG's.
    « Reply #36 on: August 03, 2017, 06:55:06 pm »
    For the record, I have a steel-frame 1911 (full sized) in the door pocket of the vehicle.  And an aluminum-frame 1911 on my belt.  Got one magazine on the belt, and two more in the vehicle.  I figure that if I can't get the job done with two 1911s and three extra magazines, I'd better check my invitation, I may have gone to the wrong party, and I probably couldn't get the job done with an M4.
    « Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 07:09:20 pm by First Shirt »
    Alabama"Stand your ground!  Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!"  Capt. John Parker

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