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Author Topic: The Milwaukee Riots.  (Read 4892 times)

MTK20

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The Milwaukee Riots.
« on: August 18, 2016, 02:14:07 pm »
We've been hearing terms like "protests" on the news, but this looks very similar to what one might call a "race riot".



I want this thread to be a dumping ground for any and all news articles or information we can find on the subject. Personally, my family has been anxiously waiting by the phone here in Texas. My father's side of the family came from Milwaukee, Wisconsin and while he and grandma escaped; all of their friends and workmates still live up there.

In addition to the news aspect of it, tactics- how would you handle this situation? Obviously one would travel no more than needed. It would pretty much be point A to point B for me. Home- work. What if you have a week of vacation saved up? Take it off at the beginning of the event or do you endure a few days of driving through the nonsense to see how it pans out? My question is if you lived in Milwaukee right now, how would you change your day to day life?
Texas
Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    Kaso

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #1 on: August 18, 2016, 02:38:55 pm »
    My question is if you lived in Milwaukee right now, how would you change your day to day life?
    I would change my address. :scrutiny
    « Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 03:01:22 pm by Kaso »

    MTK20

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    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Chief45

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #3 on: August 18, 2016, 03:24:14 pm »
    1.  assuming moving and changing jobs is not an option.
         so, find alternate routes to work.   Try really really hard to NOT travel alone, find secure parking areas that are a SHORT walking distance if possible.   Stay away from public transportation if at all possible.  Carpool whenever you can.  Go completely gray man, stay with groups, blend in, try to have nothing to carry, nothing in your hands and forget about stylish.  Wear clothing you can actually move in, something tough and durable.  For women, if the attractive business attire is required, cover it with something, put the heels in a purse and wear sneakers or flats, don't put makeup on until your actually at work and remove it before leaving for the day, and especially for woman, stay with a pack, preferably with some alpha or alpha appearing males and not metro's. 

    2.  If your going to carry, be prepared for the worst possible outcomes. 
    KansasUN-Retired LEO.

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    freeman1685

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #4 on: August 18, 2016, 06:18:55 pm »
    Am I the only one who has noticed that in all of the news footage, they aren't using any of the accepted forms of non lethal crowd control?  I see a lot of riot shields, and helmets.  But no pepper spray, no stun grenades, and not a water cannon to be seen.  Could maybe one of our LEOs give an explanation as to why that is?  I'm truly curious.

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    Kaso

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #5 on: August 18, 2016, 06:25:22 pm »
    Am I the only one who has noticed that in all of the news footage, they aren't using any of the accepted forms of non lethal crowd control?  I see a lot of riot shields, and helmets.  But no pepper spray, no stun grenades, and not a water cannon to be seen.  Could maybe one of our LEOs give an explanation as to why that is?  I'm truly curious.
    My guess?  They don't want it to turn worse, to the point where lethal force is required.  Anymore, with every black person (up to, and including POTUS) taking any justified shooting of a black offender as a personal slight, they just can't take the risk of breaking out the water cannons.

    MTK20

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #6 on: August 18, 2016, 06:32:58 pm »
    <snip>
    2.  If you going to carry encounter them , be prepared for the worst possible outcomes.

    I get what you mean, but whether carrying or not, if you encounter them - don't expect mercy. I think the outcome would be the same (I.e. attempted violence on your person by the mob) whether you have a gun on you or not.

    If I was in that situation, I think I might not carry just a J frame for a little bit. I think an autoloader, a spare magazine, and a BUG wouldn't unreasonable in that situation- and pray you never have to use any of it.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    freeman1685

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #7 on: August 18, 2016, 06:33:51 pm »
    My guess?  They don't want it to turn worse, to the point where lethal force is required.  Anymore, with every black person (up to, and including POTUS) taking any justified shooting of a black offender as a personal slight, they just can't take the risk of breaking out the water cannons.
    OK, that's a plausible reason for not using the water cannon.  But that doesn't explain the absence of other non lethal means.  Flash bangs (stun grenades), oleoresin capsicum spray and/or grenades, hell even beanbag launchers for the more aggressive "protestors" would be apropos.  Something.

    Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk

    ArizonaStupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education or by legislation.  Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.  But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.  RAH

    MTK20

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #8 on: August 18, 2016, 06:38:11 pm »
    My guess?  They don't want it to turn worse, to the point where lethal force is required.  Anymore, with every black person (up to, and including POTUS) taking any justified shooting of a black offender as a personal slight, they just can't take the risk of breaking out the water cannons.

    Not to be a wet blanket here, but there are lives, businesses, and property at risk here. You want to protest? You protest in a nonviolent political manner. If you want to use violence to shake up society and make a political point, then don't be surprised if the same means are used to civilise you. If they can't be reasoned with, they greatly narrow the options of the LEO's on scene.

    By the end of this, I hope no more hate crimes are committed against uniformed officers and I surely hope none perish due to overly politically correct rules of engagement. Officers need to make it home at the end of the day, by whatever means.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Kaso

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #9 on: August 18, 2016, 06:49:25 pm »
    OK, that's a plausible reason for not using the water cannon.  But that doesn't explain the absence of other non lethal means.  Flash bangs (stun grenades), oleoresin capsicum spray and/or grenades, hell even beanbag launchers for the more aggressive "protestors" would be apropos.  Something.
    In my mind, that goes for all of the above.  Stopping the riot violently will not end well.  It may end this riot, but ten more will spring up to riot about the riot.

    Not to be a wet blanket here, but there are lives, businesses, and property at risk here. You want to protest? You protest in a nonviolent political manner. If you want to use violence to shake up society and make a political point, then don't be surprised if the same means are used to civilise you. If they can't be reasoned with, they greatly narrow the options of the LEO's on scene.
    They are animals.  They can not be reasoned with.  We as a society have allowed this problem to spiral out of control.

    freeman1685

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #10 on: August 18, 2016, 07:06:08 pm »


    In my mind, that goes for all of the above.  Stopping the riot violently will not end well.  It may end this riot, but ten more will spring up to riot about the riot.

    Now see, it's that kind of mollycoddling BS, that's gotten us into this situation in the first place.  Some CHUD picks up a rock, brick, or some other projectile weapon, and makes to launch it at me, I take that to be an act of aggression along the lines of deadly force.  And you're worried about an escalation?  The kindest thing I could do, would be to chuck a beanbag at his abdomen, at 100mph.

    As you said, "they are animals, they cannot be reasoned with." Using non lethal means, to disperse a crowd of thugs in the act of committing numerous crimes, seems to me to be the better solution.

    Personally, I'd be more inclined to dump a couple rounds center mass, and be done with it.

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    Kaso

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #11 on: August 18, 2016, 07:49:24 pm »

    Personally, I'd be more inclined to dump a couple rounds center mass, and be done with it.
    Personally, I would favor a daisy cutter, but once again, that would only make the larger problem worse.

    sarge712

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #12 on: August 18, 2016, 11:58:23 pm »
    Am I the only one who has noticed that in all of the news footage, they aren't using any of the accepted forms of non lethal crowd control?  I see a lot of riot shields, and helmets.  But no pepper spray, no stun grenades, and not a water cannon to be seen.  Could maybe one of our LEOs give an explanation as to why that is?  I'm truly curious.

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    I have no idea other than lack of spine.

    And I love the use of CHUD. I haven't heard that in years. I might pick it up and dust it off myself  ;)
    North CarolinaBe without fear in the face of thine enemies.
    Be brave and upright that God may love thee.
    Speak the truth always even if it leads to thy death.
    Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
    That is thine oath.

    freeman1685

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #13 on: August 19, 2016, 12:02:33 am »


    And I love the use of CHUD. I haven't heard that in years. I might pick it up and dust it off myself  ;)

    Been using it for years.  Not many know the reference.  Be my guest.

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    ArizonaStupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education or by legislation.  Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.  But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.  RAH

    MTK20

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #14 on: August 19, 2016, 12:10:12 am »
    I have no idea other than lack of spine.

    And I love the use of CHUD. I haven't heard that in years. I might pick it up and dust it off myself  ;)

     :rotfl

    That's funny, because of Richard I've used it a time or two myself. I know it means cannibalistic humanoid underground dweller, but I don't know where the reference is from.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #15 on: August 19, 2016, 12:18:13 am »
    Wasn't it from a movie titled C.H.U.D. ?     :hmm    Sometime back in the 1980's if memory serves.   
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    freeman1685

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #16 on: August 19, 2016, 02:07:19 am »
    Wasn't it from a movie titled C.H.U.D. ?     :hmm    Sometime back in the 1980's if memory serves.
    That's it.  Really terrible movie. What some would call a cult classic.  The name just kinda seemed appropriate for referring to the criminal element.  I've heard some use the term "Boojum" as well.  There are some others, but CHUD is just as good.

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    Chief45

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #17 on: August 19, 2016, 08:52:28 am »
    (warning,  I am actually starting to rant and unload here)

    Not there, not involved in those discussions, however,  I would imagine that upper level admin has verboten those items.   simply based on their own careers.  as in, , , , , 

    ok guys,  it's only things.  it's only property.  let the hood rats/misunderstood masses/historically abused/buzzword of the day/ destroy what ever they want.  Let them get the bad publicity, let them show themselves as what they are.   I'm not going to sacrifice my career, savings account, home, family,  and retirement, just to save property.


    not saying it's right.  Not saying it's professional.   just saying, , , it is.   over and over and over.   Look at the Lt. in Berkley. Look at the officer that is still in hiding from Ferguson.  Look at the Soro's money and the avowed objectives of groups like BLM.  dismantle the police. 

    It's a social contract and when a significant portion do not abide by the social contract, those hired and payed to give their full time attention to specific duties, that are incumbent on every one,  the contact is in danger, society is in danger and until such time as a "man on a horse" appears, the significant population rises up and says "Enough",  as long as the SJW are in charge, 

    hell.  it will be hell on earth and while I will stand up and fight.  I can't do it alone.  Even all my brothers standing alongside me,  WE can't do it alone.  until our society again stands up and says, this ends now.

    For me, that's what I'm looking at in this years political circus.  HRC and it's going to continue down on the death spiral.  DT and "maybe" we have a chance.  GJ and his idiot running mate libertarian ?  all that does is throw the election to HRC.  freaking stupid choices, but there it is.  Democrats don't vote Libertarian.  so all he is doing is splitting the GOP vote and ensuring the downward trend continues. 



    in today's world, run by the authority figures (can't use the word leaders) in those locations, with the political outlooks involved at every level and the national news media spin of every event to suit their agenda instead of the truth . . . . . . .


    There are days that I am in awe of my brothers that they are still showing up for duty.







    Quote from: freeman1685 link=top


    ic=23745.msg396952#msg396952 date=1471559631
    OK, that's a plausible reason for not using the water cannon.  But that doesn't explain the absence of other non lethal means.  Flash bangs (stun grenades), oleoresin capsicum spray and/or grenades, hell even beanbag launchers for the more aggressive "protestors" would be apropos.  Something.

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    Non Timebo Mala . . . . . . . I will fear no evil. . .

    It is what it is. . . . . .It's All Good.

    scarville

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #18 on: August 19, 2016, 01:39:17 pm »
    That's it.  Really terrible movie. What some would call a cult classic.  The name just kinda seemed appropriate for referring to the criminal element.  I've heard some use the term "Boojum" as well.  There are some others, but CHUD is just as good.

    CHUD is a much better term than boojum.  Any one who has read Lewis Carrol's epic poem knows that while only some snarks are boojums all boojums are snarks.  :hide:
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    MTK20

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #19 on: August 19, 2016, 01:51:58 pm »
     :scrutiny

    I'm going to need a translator for that one  :shrug.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    freeman1685

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #20 on: August 19, 2016, 02:05:06 pm »
    It's a poem in one of the Alice in Wonderland stories.  I think it's in Through the Looking Glass.  It's been a while since I read those books.

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    ArizonaStupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education or by legislation.  Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.  But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.  RAH

    Chief45

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #21 on: August 19, 2016, 05:25:58 pm »
    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/43909


    The Hunting of the Snark.

    *** "That's exactly the way I have always been told
       That the capture of Snarks should be tried!")

    "'But oh, beamish nephew, beware of the day,
       If your Snark be a Boojum! For then
    You will softly and suddenly vanish away,
       And never be met with again!'*****




    :scrutiny

    I'm going to need a translator for that one  :shrug.
    KansasUN-Retired LEO.

    Non Timebo Mala . . . . . . . I will fear no evil. . .

    It is what it is. . . . . .It's All Good.

    sarge712

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #22 on: August 19, 2016, 06:56:11 pm »
    I've never read Lewis Carrol but the Boojum here in the mountains of Western NC (Haywood County) is a gentle, intelligent, English speaking sasquatch-like creature who had a romance with a mountain girl and took her to his cave filled with jewels he had collected in his travels. It dates back to the mid 1800's. There's even a hipster brew house named after him.

    http://www.boojumbrewing.com/

    http://www.boojumfest.com/legend-of-the-boojum/


    North CarolinaBe without fear in the face of thine enemies.
    Be brave and upright that God may love thee.
    Speak the truth always even if it leads to thy death.
    Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
    That is thine oath.

    sarge712

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    Re: The Milwaukee Riots.
    « Reply #23 on: August 19, 2016, 07:04:40 pm »
    (warning,  I am actually starting to rant and unload here)

    Not there, not involved in those discussions, however,  I would imagine that upper level admin has verboten those items.   simply based on their own careers.  as in, , , , , 

    ok guys,  it's only things.  it's only property.  let the hood rats/misunderstood masses/historically abused/buzzword of the day/ destroy what ever they want.  Let them get the bad publicity, let them show themselves as what they are.   I'm not going to sacrifice my career, savings account, home, family,  and retirement, just to save property.


    not saying it's right.  Not saying it's professional.   just saying, , , it is.   over and over and over.   Look at the Lt. in Berkley. Look at the officer that is still in hiding from Ferguson.  Look at the Soro's money and the avowed objectives of groups like BLM.  dismantle the police. 

    It's a social contract and when a significant portion do not abide by the social contract, those hired and payed to give their full time attention to specific duties, that are incumbent on every one,  the contact is in danger, society is in danger and until such time as a "man on a horse" appears, the significant population rises up and says "Enough",  as long as the SJW are in charge, 

    hell.  it will be hell on earth and while I will stand up and fight.  I can't do it alone.  Even all my brothers standing alongside me,  WE can't do it alone.  until our society again stands up and says, this ends now.

    For me, that's what I'm looking at in this years political circus.  HRC and it's going to continue down on the death spiral.  DT and "maybe" we have a chance.  GJ and his idiot running mate libertarian ?  all that does is throw the election to HRC.  freaking stupid choices, but there it is.  Democrats don't vote Libertarian.  so all he is doing is splitting the GOP vote and ensuring the downward trend continues. 



    in today's world, run by the authority figures (can't use the word leaders) in those locations, with the political outlooks involved at every level and the national news media spin of every event to suit their agenda instead of the truth . . . . . . .


    There are days that I am in awe of my brothers that they are still showing up for duty.








    I agree Chief. There is no way I would remain on duty in Baltimore, Milwaukee, etc. They should have voted with their feet months ago.

    Let. It. Burn.

    I am blessed to have the community I'm in and the bosses that I do. Our people here believe in law and order and do not want it to turn into Atlanta, Charlotte or Raleigh. As one of the LT's said after a particularly vicious fight and multiple arrests at the casino with the accompanying claims of racism, "Screw 'em. This is still Cherokee." He was echoing our chief of police's philosophy that a person may act a fool back wherever it is they are from but they will behave their damn self while visiting here.
    North CarolinaBe without fear in the face of thine enemies.
    Be brave and upright that God may love thee.
    Speak the truth always even if it leads to thy death.
    Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
    That is thine oath.

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