Author Topic: Perfect CCW (Read 13575 times)

Harm · « **Reply #25 on:** January 09, 2010, 01:02:33 pm »

Actually my 229 is a .40.

WeTheArmed.com

HiVelSword · « **Reply #26 on:** January 09, 2010, 02:21:05 pm »

Quote from: sohmdaddy on January 09, 2010, 10:23:24 am

I think Sig ships Mec-gar magazines with a higher capacity now, like a 229 mag that holds 15 9mms instead of 13.

They do indeed. And they are flush fit. So 228/229's get a two round upgrade from the original capacity and the 226 gets a 3 round one. In 9 of course. Harm, as he just mentioned has a 229 SCT in .40. His holds 14 rounds in the mag but they are extended like mine as I have the same pistol in 9mm (18 round mag). It doesn't help in the concealment dept. but I don't have any issues with it.

Outbreak · « **Reply #27 on:** January 10, 2010, 05:44:13 am »

I had never thought about the DOF thing. My mental scenario always involved one or two attackers, in which case, my P6 would work just fine, even before the reload. More than three, assuming perfect 2+1 hits on each target, I'd still have to reload.

Here's another thought.

Say you got those four attackers, and you have a P6, or a 1911 or something with similar capacity. 8-9 rounds in the grip. You pop them all twice in the chest, and then you have to reload. One or more haven't taken the hint, and you have to pop them again with your fresh magazine. Now, you have to defend the reload in court, which I've heard is tough to do. "Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, the suspect shot each victim twice, and then had to reload to finish them off. At that point, this stopped being self defense, and became murder."
If you have enough in the grip to neutralize them all without a reload, might make you look better in the aftermath.

Tony1911 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 11, 2010, 04:50:24 pm »

Quote from: Harm on January 08, 2010, 11:41:17 pm

Essentially the disparity of force drill is that the law abiding citizen is confronted by multiple gunmen, i.e. predatory pack, could be anywhere from 2-10.

I would think that in order to survive an attack by several, dedicated, armed persons, one would have to shoot, move, use cover and probably hand-to-hand fighting skills. This is not a problem that can be solved merely by engaging targets in a sequence á la Practical shooting (by the time you reach Bad Guy #5, how many rounds has he been able to send your way?). Thus I am not sure of how big an issue magazine capacity would be in real life. Certainly, if you set up an exercise where you must "stand and deliver" hits to four or so targets, sure, the single stack pistol has a severe drawback. But if you think about four real, live, opponents in a firefight, those guys would move. The fight would quickly become a grappling-lenght one (now with contact headshots!) or one where cover was utilized.

Yeah, having more ammo would be better, no doubt about that. But personally, I still think I would prefer nine fat rounds that go where I want them to, rather than a double-stack gun that I can't control as well, or eleven smaller, less effective rounds that may not stop the attacker(s) as well (what the normal alternatives would be).

(And if you guys want a real disparity-of-force scenario, I've read somewhere about gangs consisting of twenty to up to a hundred members altogether (including the hang-arounders, girlfriends / hookers etc.) roaming in some Western city. Doesn't make me like my precious single-stacks any less but does give me a hankering for a lot of extra magazines and a carry method for them.

)

Harm · « **Reply #29 on:** January 11, 2010, 05:18:36 pm »

Tony, this is not a "your gun is the wrong choice thread." There are guys who carry 1911's that I'll never mess with for NOTHING! My dad carried one and didn't mess around. That being said this is MY PERSONAL Feelings regarding a perfect CCW. Seems a few folks agree with me. No biggie, other still have their choice.

Of course there is no such thing as a static fight. But being prepared to deliver shots well aimed, accurate fire in a fighting gun your more likely to HAVE rather than carrying that dinky .380 with no reloads, or that snubbie smith IMHO a good thing.

Yes 4 on 1 on a timed target isn't perfect, especially with no movement and return fire. And of course you can find larget quantities of data to support 1 on 1 attacks and 20 on 1 attacks. Either way supports either a 5 shot gun or a belt fed machine gun. Neither is perfect. This is simply a desire to find a median choice that gives better performance.

As to the choice of caliber, hey you want to carry a .45 have at it. I decided that wasn't for me. I prefer the .40. If you'd like to talk about calibers might I recommend this thread?

https://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,7196.0.html

Bud · « **Reply #30 on:** January 11, 2010, 07:56:15 pm »

Personally, after having participated in several gun battles and several hundred firefights, ( and oh, yes, I can prove it) my perfect CCW is one that will allow me to fire and hit as many people as possible while I run away as fast as possible.

If no one is paying me to be a hero, I can't really think of even one good reason to stand and fight. The perfect CCW will allow me to do that

sohmdaddy · « **Reply #31 on:** January 12, 2010, 04:42:56 pm »

Yeah, if you've ever played paintball, any defense against four people will involve shooting, sure, but also lots of running, ducking, hiding, sticking out around corners, and luck. You shoot at your pursuer until they go down, either for cover or because they're hit, then sprint to cover. Once you are behind cover, then you see if they are still coming. If they still are, shoot until they aren't pursuing you, then boogie to cover farther away. Repeat until no one is chasing you or shooting at you.

I've only done it paintballing, but if you don't get shot it's because of luck. Plus its really hard to shoot fast and accurate with someone after you like that.

Hopefully with real bullets, once you start shooting at the bad guys, they will start running away from you. It got the adrenaline going with paintball, it would be very hard not to panic if it was for real.

I think I'm sidetracking the thread here.

Harm · « **Reply #32 on:** January 12, 2010, 06:55:35 pm »

Sohm I used to be an avid paintballer and yes I know about force on force disparity of force and how paintball proves most of what you know wrong. BUT it's also true that when the chips are down you usually DON'T have time for a reload. Again thats why this is seeking a perfet compromise gun. Something that people might be more inclined to carry in place of their Kel Tec 380's and other pocket pistols but still giving a person a fighting chance.

See this thread for more evidence as to WHY I think I'm justified:
https://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,7320.0.html

Tony1911 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 14, 2010, 04:39:33 pm »

Quote from: Harm on January 11, 2010, 05:18:36 pm

Tony, this is not a "your gun is the wrong choice thread."

I'm sorry, I seem to have gotten sidetracked and made myself unclear. I was merely pondering on this 10 round "hard limit", why have such a thing.

Harm · « **Reply #34 on:** January 14, 2010, 04:52:51 pm »

no worries, we're all human and i don't spoke so good myself sometimes

it just seems 10 rounds is the most you can hope for in a slim stack and still not make the gun unwieldy. Thats all. Something slim enough it's easy to conceal with as much capacity as possible with a standard CCW length barrel i.e. 229/Glock 23 etc.

sohmdaddy · « **Reply #35 on:** January 14, 2010, 04:59:46 pm »

I wonder if they make slim grips for a 229? Or if it would make a difference if they did?

My friend has an XD45 in the 4 inch barrel. It seems to be a little slimmer than my Sig, and it can hold 12 rounds with the longer mag.

HiVelSword · « **Reply #36 on:** January 14, 2010, 05:45:18 pm »

Quote from: sohmdaddy on January 14, 2010, 04:59:46 pm

I wonder if they make slim grips for a 229? Or if it would make a difference if they did?

My friend has an XD45 in the 4 inch barrel. It seems to be a little slimmer than my Sig, and it can hold 12 rounds with the longer mag.

Do you mean XD45 Compact? The longer mag for the compact is the standard size and it holds 13 rounds.

sohmdaddy · « **Reply #37 on:** January 15, 2010, 12:58:54 pm »

Yeah those compacts are pretty neat, and comfortable to shoot.

bmitchell · « **Reply #38 on:** January 15, 2010, 01:23:25 pm »

Astra's A-100 has a 17rd mag in a slightly (I think) slimmer grip than Sig's doublestacks. The grip is maybe a little longer than the full size (226? I still haven't got these numbers worked out) but it is so comfortable. Mags are impossible to find for a decent price though.

Ben

tactical22 · « **Reply #39 on:** January 24, 2010, 12:10:08 am »

I'm turning 21 in two months and after a fair amount of internet and hands-on research am thinking about the Springfield TRP as my EDC: http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=28] [url]http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=28[/url] in a Crossbreed SuperTuck Deluxe. I love this pistol, and if I had to only own one sidearm, this would be it. The way things are going these days, I don't really want to purchase a bunch of purpose-specific firearms. I am a little concerned that it is on the big/heavy side. I have been carrying a full size 1911 loaner in the Crossbreed, in my house only, of course, for a while now and don't think it is too heavy. However, I think the TRP is the heaviest production 1911 made, so...

1. Does any one here carry a TRP as an EDC?
2. Does anyone here have a hard time concealing a 5" 1911?

LoneStarNational · « **Reply #40 on:** January 24, 2010, 12:42:43 am »

A full sized 1911 for your one and only (and first) carry piece? Dude... brutal...

I've come to recognize a couple things in the (admittedly brief) six months or so I've been carrying now...

1) Carrying isn't nearly as big a deal as you worry about ahead of time. If you can get a tshirt over it, you can probably get down the street without anybody noticing.

but...

2) Carrying in the real world is a lot bigger pain in the butt than wearing a pistol on your belt around your apartment (I did the same ahead of time).
   Eventually, it gets heavy...
   Eventually, you get hot and have to take off your coat...
   Eventually, you have to hug your grandma...
   Eventually, you have to ride four across in a three person back seat for the carpool...
   Eventually, you have to find a way to pee in a urinal without the benefit of a stall...
   Etc...

Now, I don't know anything about your physical build, climate, style of dress, etc, and you may be more than up to the task (I'm sure not), but if you're stuck with one gun, I'd strongly recommend starting with something more manageable... with a big gun, you have to compromise too often and leave it behind... if you need it to double as a house gun, etc, you dont have to go all the way down to a kel tec or j frame... but I'd think about something a little more mid sized...

I realize that's not the direct experience with a 1911 you were looking for...sorry... I have an XD45 that is a pain in the butt too lug around. The only reason I'm now outfitting myself to be able to carry it is because I've already outfitted myself with a smaller gun to carry when I decide the XD is too big and just wont work. That way I never get left unarmed.

MarshallDodge · « **Reply #41 on:** January 24, 2010, 01:42:14 am »

It's all about real estate. You either have to have a thicker gun or longer grip. I like a thinner gun.

If I really have to be concealed then I go with a Kahr K9 it limits me to 8+1 but the slide is only .90" wide. Compared to my EDC, a 1911, I hardly know it is there.

Quote from: tactical22 on January 24, 2010, 12:10:08 am

1. Does any one here carry a TRP as an EDC?
2. Does anyone here have a hard time concealing a 5" 1911?

90% of the time I am carrying a 4.25" 1911. It is heavy(compared to a polymer gun) but slim, and I carry OWB in a Rafter S (Askins Avenger) style holster. A good belt and good holster will help a lot.

My wife has started carrying a 4.25" 1911 and her Crossbreed arrived in the mail this week. So far she said that she really likes it. I am amazed out how well she can hide that gun being that she is 5'4" 120ish pounds.

DMGNUT · « **Reply #42 on:** January 24, 2010, 02:39:06 am »

I have been a convert to the evil black tupperware for sometime now, and I concur with Harm in his example using the disparity of force drill.
There are two things you do not have enough of in a confrontation, ammo and time. Less ammo requires more time. More ammo requires less time.
Generally speaking, in my book a weapon with a high capacity mag is better than one without.
The 15 round mags of my G-19 are just about right, and it is easily concealed with a plain-jane IWB holster, yet readily available if needed.

Harm · « **Reply #43 on:** July 01, 2010, 01:52:59 pm »

Wanted to revisit this after a few months to digest on it.

First I had a chance to play with a friends Sig P220 Carry the other day. Slimmer than a 229, otherwise the dimensions are very similar. I think in 40 or 9 this would be the modern 225 that would outstanding in this role. The gun felt GREAT in the hand.

And of course there is the new E2 grip setup that is rolling out for the 229/226 this fall. Reviews so far say it makes a huge difference in the way the gun carries. But that doesn't make much sense to me. Guess I'll have to wait and see what it looks like.

Apparently what Buds got is contagious, as I have a serious itch for a S&W 3rd Gen 6906 9mm.

sohmdaddy · « **Reply #44 on:** July 01, 2010, 02:23:20 pm »

I think the E2 treatment is for people like my wife, who just hates shooting my gun because it's too big for her hands. It may increase Sigs sales. I wonder if they'll keep offering the regular grip size as well.

Harm · « **Reply #45 on:** July 01, 2010, 02:29:27 pm »

Just on the E2 the guns are the same except for 3 parts. So I don't see this doing away with the regular grips. But hey what do I know?