Author Topic: Of redoubts and regions (Read 12403 times)

ArfinGreebly · « **Reply #50 on:** December 16, 2012, 02:54:31 pm »

I wouldn't dream of suggesting that someone should depend solely on maps of whatever sort -- GPS enabled or otherwise -- in trying to navigate those trails. That's an exercise in foolishness.

It's been several years since we lived in Scottsdale and Goodyear (and even longer since I trekked that part of the world as a teenager), but I'm well acquainted with fickle nature of the off-road landscape in that region.

Even so, and even with such eyeball knowledge of the territory, I'd rather have reliable maps along for the ride.

WeTheArmed.com

Daylight · « **Reply #51 on:** December 16, 2012, 03:44:30 pm »

A friend once navigated most of the length of the Olympic peninsula on logging roads riding a thrift store bicycle with his camping gear in a cardboard box on the rack. He had prepared by photocopying USGS topo maps from the library, and adding a little color back with pens. On one occasion he came down a road an found a timber company security patrol. They asked where he came from and when he told them they were amazed there was a passable route.

coelacanth · « **Reply #52 on:** December 17, 2012, 12:02:34 pm »

Yup. For a lot of the back country its travel light or don't travel at all.

coelacanth · « **Reply #53 on:** December 17, 2012, 12:07:30 pm »

Quote from: ArfinGreebly on December 16, 2012, 02:54:31 pm

I wouldn't dream of suggesting that someone should depend solely on maps of whatever sort -- GPS enabled or otherwise -- in trying to navigate those trails. That's an exercise in foolishness.

It's been several years since we lived in Scottsdale and Goodyear (and even longer since I trekked that part of the world as a teenager), but I'm well acquainted with fickle nature of the off-road landscape in that region.

Even so, and even with such eyeball knowledge of the territory, I'd rather have reliable maps along for the ride.

Me too. I don't mean to cast aspersions on your idea, just point out the limitations for the purpose of this thread. SHTF scenarios usually shuffle the deck in unexpected ways and a person too enamored of technology will likely be disappointed at best. Traditional land navigation skills have largely atrophied in our children and grandchildren unless they have experienced mentors.

jimbob86 · « **Reply #54 on:** December 17, 2012, 12:13:29 pm »

Quote

Traditional land navigation skills have largely atrophied in our children and grandchildren unless they have experienced mentors.

I know it used to be a Common Task in the Army ...... everybody that went through basic did it in the 80's ....
With even fewer people joining the .mil these days, and fewer of those learning basic land nav .....

bunkerguy · « **Reply #55 on:** February 21, 2013, 09:14:21 am »

Quote from: Coronach on November 08, 2012, 12:15:45 pm

the white tail deer and the rainbow trout will take a sudden, rapid and possibly irreversible population crash if TEOTWAWKI happens. It will be good eating for about six months, and then we'll be finding out how possum tastes.

Mike

That assumes that people know how to hunt, how to clean, and how to find/get to the areas of game...which after most of the gas is gone and it is not worth traveling on the grounds you will be ventalated....

Coronach · « **Reply #56 on:** February 21, 2013, 10:18:03 am »

I agree that lack of gas will put a damper on things, and a lot of the people would not know how to go hunt deer if their life depended on it. Heck, I'm a gunny and I can shoot and I'm pretty sure that if I was relying on my game-taking skills to survive I could forgo my gym membership, because I would be on the Mogadishu Weight Loss Plan for a while.

That said, there are a lot of good ole boys out here who know how to hunt, like to hunt, have land to hunt and as soon as any enforcement of restrictions vanishes they will start filling freezers. And then the deer will get scarce, which will cause people to go try to grab all they can, which will sustain the vicious cycle.

Mike

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

mwcoleburn · « **Reply #57 on:** February 21, 2013, 11:46:53 am »

You are dead on there, the tame city deer will be gone in short order (with a whole lot of wasted meat due to improper storage and preservation techniques) Once the deer get scarce and skittish hunting is going to be a tough way to find food. They same will go for squirrels, rabbits, raccoons, and other small game. Lakes will be fished out PDQ as well, most of them are stocked now anyway and don't have breeding stock to begin with. Add to that the increased calorie demand that comes from living a hunter/gather lifestyle and you have some real issues with protein and fat starvation. You may get enoug calories and still die from that. You would probably be looking at death from starvation and food/waterborne pathogens for better than half of the population. Its a scary, scary thought.

aikorob · « **Reply #58 on:** February 21, 2013, 02:46:36 pm »

Hypothetical question: it's 6 months or so after SHTF---things are beginning to settle down after the first spasm of mass evacuation, looting and culling of the great unwashed.
I show up at Grant's valley, or any other small, isolated area. Being that I am one of "them" rather than "one of us" what skills can get me in the door?
Other than the obvious ones such as Dr. or vet--probably not going to be much demand for "barista of the year" in a survival situation. Mil or LEO experience would not be in high demand either---by that time everybody surviving would be experienced.

Plebian · « **Reply #59 on:** February 21, 2013, 06:25:20 pm »

Skills in carpentry, electrical, small engine repair, other mechanical skills will all be very valuable. If you are in a major oil/gas producing region. A good working knowledge of how to keep a well going for gas production might be priceless.

It might also be that knowing how to realistically use the power from one of the several thousand large wind turbines around the US could be damn handy. If there is hydro electric in your area then they can obviously keep going if you know how to run it.

Plebian · « **Reply #60 on:** February 21, 2013, 06:29:32 pm »

I also do not know if people are talking about "hunting" here OR food gathering. Food gathering is an entirely different process.

Why would you be wasting ammo on food when cable snares and wires snares plus a decent impromptu spear etc feeds you all the same with less noise/waste of ammo.

I dearly love bow hunting hogs and deer right now. If things get all messed up I will not be "hunting". I will be setting traps and running trap lines. I can only hunt one spot at a time and sitting/stalking wastes energy/time. Those traps only cost me the time it takes to place them, They then have the patience to sit and wait to catch me something. While I can do other things.

Coronach · « **Reply #61 on:** February 21, 2013, 06:37:53 pm »

You're probably correct. However, there are a lot of Nimrods out there, who shall feast off of the beasts of the land. There are comparatively fewer guys who know how to do trapping.

Mike

Plebian · « **Reply #62 on:** February 21, 2013, 06:54:43 pm »

Quote from: Coronach on February 21, 2013, 06:37:53 pm

You're probably correct. However, there are a lot of Nimrods out there, who shall feast off of the beasts of the land. There are comparatively fewer guys who know how to do trapping.

Mike

Yeah. There will be many idiots that do not make it.

I would hate to try and survive OK winters if I didn't have supplies already stored. I am pretty certain I would die like a fly. The native americans moved through and didn't stay in OK for a good reason. Spring and fall are amazing, and I think I could likely scrape by living off the land. Winter and summer would be almost assured death sentences.

coelacanth · « **Reply #63 on:** February 21, 2013, 07:19:14 pm »

A lot of the country is like that. Your point about trapping is well taken. Snares and such for small game, trotlines for fish and turtles, and all manner of frighteningly effective and currently outlawed methods will become commonplace because ammunition will be too valuable to waste when its not needed. The crash in game populations will inevitably result and scavengers will become predators. At some point the number of legs you have will no longer be the determining factor in whether you are hunted or not.

Coronach · « **Reply #64 on:** February 21, 2013, 08:00:40 pm »

Yeah, don't take my snide comments to mean that I think I'm some wilderness survival guru, sneering at all the hunters who shall perish while I live fat and happy. Not a bit of it. I'm as screwed as anyone else if the grocery store stops selling stuff and the supplies in my basement dry up. I'm just giving a warning to all of the guys who think that because they own some mossy oak gear and a shotgun means "a country boy can survive." You actually gotta knwo how to run a trotline, not just sing about it.

Mike

Daylight · « **Reply #65 on:** February 21, 2013, 10:13:39 pm »

Trying to feed yourself off choice game is going to be super challenging. Knowing what else you can eat could be life and death. Knowing how to get and eat "trash fish" or nuisance species may be enough. In fresh water carp and pickerel usually get thrown back. In salt water people swear if they get dogfish when they are trying for salmon, or sculpin when they are fishing for cod.

I know how to clean and cook dogfish, avoiding the razor teeth, and envenomed spines. Actually good eating.

mwcoleburn · « **Reply #66 on:** February 21, 2013, 10:26:08 pm »

Quote from: aikorob on February 21, 2013, 02:46:36 pm

Hypothetical question: it's 6 months or so after SHTF---things are beginning to settle down after the first spasm of mass evacuation, looting and culling of the great unwashed.
I show up at Grant's valley, or any other small, isolated area. Being that I am one of "them" rather than "one of us" what skills can get me in the door?
Other than the obvious ones such as Dr. or vet--probably not going to be much demand for "barista of the year" in a survival situation. Mil or LEO experience would not be in high demand either---by that time everybody surviving would be experienced.

Animal Husbandry, old timey food storage skills, a lot of the trades, small engine repair, welding, BLACKSMITHING would be HUGE. As for medical, you may not be able to get a med degree but an EMT would be way better than nothing, just being able to run some stitches and set a break would be light years ahead of no medical training. Also chemistry, if you knew how to make fuel, black powder, and a host of other things I'm forgeting, that would make you a valuable member.

Plebian · « **Reply #67 on:** February 22, 2013, 01:51:08 pm »

Quote from: coelacanth on February 21, 2013, 07:19:14 pm

A lot of the country is like that. Your point about trapping is well taken. Snares and such for small game, trotlines for fish and turtles, and all manner of frighteningly effective and currently outlawed methods will become commonplace because ammunition will be too valuable to waste when its not needed. The crash in game populations will inevitably result and scavengers will become predators. At some point the number of legs you have will no longer be the determining factor in whether you are hunted or not.

You should also include larger game in the ability to be snared. Cable snares are effective against larger animals. Their use in Africa is quite common for larger specie.

I have personally seen hogs over 250 pounds snared with cable. It is a dirty and nasty thing, but it was effective none the less.

Grant · « **Reply #68 on:** February 22, 2013, 05:44:54 pm »

Quote from: aikorob on February 21, 2013, 02:46:36 pm

Hypothetical question: it's 6 months or so after SHTF---things are beginning to settle down after the first spasm of mass evacuation, looting and culling of the great unwashed.
I show up at Grant's valley, or any other small, isolated area. Being that I am one of "them" rather than "one of us" what skills can get me in the door?
Other than the obvious ones such as Dr. or vet--probably not going to be much demand for "barista of the year" in a survival situation. Mil or LEO experience would not be in high demand either---by that time everybody surviving would be experienced.

Depends on the area, alot of experianced welders/etc. Basically I cannot think of anything locally we're in short experiance of except for: #1. Gunsmithing (ironic huh?) outside of bubba-jobs, not many GOOD gunsmiths. #2. Medical personal. And by 6 months after we're talking medical who can figure out how to accomplish something without big stores of anti-biotics.

Quite honestly: as bad as towns are, try and find someplace with people gathering before just tromping around and bumping into little groups of survivors. There will be a LOT of twitchy people. Blending in with a group, and then in a marketplace/trading enviroment show your skills. I hate saying it, but if you and 4-5 others carrying guns walk up near us, until we know who you are, you're gonna be in danger. Knowing our "cluster" that'll be a safe bet you won't get shot on sight. That said I know of a LOT of places/people you simply will NOT want to come within rifle-shot of buildings and/or people.