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Author Topic: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence  (Read 5410 times)

RMc

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Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
« on: April 15, 2015, 09:07:11 pm »
Some bold soul actually read the definition of a "Destructive Device" and found that pistol grip shotguns fit the definition!

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2015/04/the_legal_dilem.php

        What will they do ...  what will they do!


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    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #1 on: April 15, 2015, 09:08:38 pm »
    What they will do - ban them eventually... and what they should do - dismiss the NFA...  :coffee
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    IMerrell

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #2 on: April 15, 2015, 09:26:10 pm »
    I disagree with his interpretation. In the definition of a destructive device it says larger than a half inch bore, excluding shotguns AND SHOTGUN SHELLS, therefore pistol grip shotgun not a DD.
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    Mississippi556

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #3 on: April 16, 2015, 05:03:28 pm »
    I disagree with his interpretation. In the definition of a destructive device it says larger than a half inch bore, excluding shotguns AND SHOTGUN SHELLS, therefore pistol grip shotgun not a DD.

    Exactly.  The article is based on a flawed premise.  An example:  An 1100 shotgun, designed and intended to fire 12 gauge shotgun shells and with a clear sporting nature and intent, with a barrel length and overall length in compliance otherwise does not become illegal by putting a pistol grip rear stock on it.  Period.
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #4 on: April 16, 2015, 06:07:15 pm »
    Well, they will eventually ban them because they are scary looking and misunderstood.
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    RMc

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #5 on: April 16, 2015, 09:00:10 pm »
    The problem stems from a 2009 ATF ruling that pistol grip shotguns were not shotguns. This was purportedly done to prevent FFL holders from selling these "firearms" to anyone under 21 years of age.

    Now they discover this previous ruling clashes with the NFA - DD definition - hence the point of the article.
                                                                               
    « Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 09:19:02 pm by RMc »
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    RMc

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #6 on: April 18, 2015, 10:47:34 pm »
    Found it:

    https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2009-11.pdf

    The article referenced in the original post was not particularly clear on this.
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    alone

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #7 on: April 19, 2015, 08:59:38 am »
    Well, they will eventually ban them because they are scary looking and misunderstood.
           

    Is this applicable to a certain female Senator, former First Lady, running for President?
    If not, it should.  <tacky smilie here>
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    seanp

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #8 on: April 19, 2015, 10:45:47 am »
    Laws made by people who do not understand the subject they are legislating frequently have humorous results.

    Like the law we have up here in Canada that makes short barreled shotguns legal unrestricted.

    The law was probably intended to prevent people from having short barreled shotguns or rifles, but the way that it was worded makes it completely legal.

    To put it simply:  If the overall firearm length is longer than 26" the gun is legal, no matter how long the barrel is, as long as it was made that way.

    So, it is a very serious indictable offense to cut a 18" 870 barrel down to 12.5", but it is fine to have a 1" barrel on a shotgun with an overall length of 26" if the barrel was made that way...
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    RMc

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #9 on: April 22, 2015, 10:43:41 pm »
    A short stock Mossberg in action.  Oh my!  ::)


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    coelacanth

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #10 on: April 22, 2015, 11:23:44 pm »
    Uh yeah  .  .  .  I think I'd prefer that set-up for an autoloader. 
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    Mississippi556

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #11 on: April 29, 2015, 01:30:53 pm »
    Uh yeah  .  .  .  I think I'd prefer that set-up for an autoloader.

    I'm with you.  Much more instant lethality with a pistol grip autoloader.   I like Rem 1100s, but the action has a spring and piston that extends back into the stock, so you can't cut it at the grip.  An old Browning A-5 would be a perfect candidate.
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

    MTK20

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #12 on: April 29, 2015, 09:25:38 pm »
    My sawn off shotgun needs are simple. Stoeger coach gun (of course with pistol grip).
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

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    RMc

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #13 on: June 20, 2015, 10:33:23 am »
    I'm with you.  Much more instant lethality with a pistol grip autoloader.   I like Rem 1100s, but the action has a spring and piston that extends back into the stock, so you can't cut it at the grip.  An old Browning A-5 would be a perfect candidate.

    Doesn't the old Browning Auto 5 have a long bolt return spring housed in the buttstock?
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    MTK20

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #14 on: June 20, 2015, 11:08:51 am »
    Doesn't the old Browning Auto 5 have a long bolt return spring housed in the buttstock?

    I was thinking the same thing  :hmm.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    seanp

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    Re: Pistol Grip "Shotguns" An Unintended Consequence
    « Reply #15 on: June 20, 2015, 11:36:30 am »
    It does.

    But the Auto 5 is a very popular sawn-off fighting shotgun all over the world.
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