Author Topic: Factory 00 Buckshot / Smoke Screen Combination For Home Defense (Read 8212 times)

RMc · « **on:** August 09, 2018, 12:01:39 pm »

If you want the loudest factory 00B ammo that also lays down a smoke screen for defensive use:

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"This is 2 3/4" 12 gauge black powder shotgun ammunition. Loaded with 9 00 BUCK SHOT and 3 1/4 dram of black powder. There are no plastic wads in these shells so you can spend more time shooting and less time scrubbing out plastic fouling. Loaded using lubricated fiber and card wads. Now loaded with paper hulls..."

https://www.buffaloarms.com/obsolete-hard-to-find-ammunition/shotgun-ammo/12-gauge-00-buck-shot-2-3-4-3-1-4-drams-of-black-powder-shotgun-ammo-25-rounds-per-box-amogx12ga00
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Might be a good choice for "Shockwave" deployment!

Well it is Factory Loaded Buckshot!

WeTheArmed.com

Mississippi556 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2018, 04:01:24 pm »

For home defense smoke screen maybe just this:

https://www.perfectshotllc.com/product/12-gauge-blanks-with-smoke-150-grain/

No projectiles.

Maybe use your real, tight patterning buckshot, like Flight Control, when you need to take the intruder out with minimal risk of invoking the law of unintended consequences with stray pellets going where you don't want them.

I defer to those of you in career law enforcement as to the sequence of use.

RMc · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2018, 07:04:42 pm »

Mississippi556,

I agree that tight patterns are best for hunting and defensive use.

However, since many folks seem to be of the oposite opinion; they should be aware that factory loaded, black powder buckshot ammunition options, offering the ultimate in retrograde 19th century performance, are available. Indeed, replete with all the attendant fire and brimstone!.

Mississippi556 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 13, 2018, 04:55:39 pm »

Quote from: RMc on August 10, 2018, 07:04:42 pm

Mississippi556,

I agree that tight patterns are best for hunting and defensive use.

However, since many folks seem to be of the oposite opinion; they should be aware that factory loaded, black powder buckshot ammunition options, offering the ultimate in retrograde 19th century performance, are available. Indeed, replete with all the attendant fire and brimstone!.

Ha ha! Indeed. Maybe fire 'em up in the air, Joe Biden style!

Chief45 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 14, 2018, 09:32:53 am »

while attempts to use deterrence, distraction and non lethal are admirable in some cases, the main question is, when is it appropriate ?

I would submit that attempting to use a blank on a home intruder, at the ranges generally found inside, are questionable at best and potentially lethal to the home defender and family at worst.
what exactly are you attempting to accomplish here ?

Quote from: Mississippi556 on August 09, 2018, 04:01:24 pm

For home defense smoke screen maybe just this:

https://www.perfectshotllc.com/product/12-gauge-blanks-with-smoke-150-grain/

No projectiles.

Maybe use your real, tight patterning buckshot, like Flight Control, when you need to take the intruder out with minimal risk of invoking the law of unintended consequences with stray pellets going where you don't want them.

I defer to those of you in career law enforcement as to the sequence of use.

exiledtoIA · « **Reply #5 on:** August 15, 2018, 04:51:38 pm »

Why would I want to obscure the target in a defensive shooting?
If I have to shoot an intruder I want to keep an eye on him until the cops get there, not guess where he went
and if he needs a second treatment.

Mississippi556 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 15, 2018, 05:04:03 pm »

I believe we were both making a joke. The whole concept is crazy to me.

I use Federal FliteControl 9 pellet 00B (full power) in my HD shotgun. I don't care if it creates a smoke screen. Would prefer it not. I have a momentary on weapon light. I'd activate that just to positively identify the potential threat and then decide on course of action - confirm friendly, if hostile, move or retreat is possible, or last case scenario eliminate the threat, would be my split second thinking.

I was musing that if someone actually did want to create a smokescreen, there might be a better product than real blackpower buckshot, and then, I brought in crazy Uncle Joe for good measure.

MTK20 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 15, 2018, 06:30:06 pm »

Quote from: Mississippi556 on August 15, 2018, 05:04:03 pm

I believe we were both making a joke. The whole concept is crazy to me.

I use Federal FliteControl 9 pellet 00B (full power) in my HD shotgun. I don't care if it creates a smoke screen. Would prefer it not. I have a momentary on weapon light. I'd activate that just to positively identify the potential threat and then decide on course of action - confirm friendly, if hostile, move or retreat is possible, or last case scenario eliminate the threat, would be my split second thinking.

I was musing that if someone actually did want to create a smokescreen, there might be a better product than real blackpower buckshot, and then, I brought in crazy Uncle Joe for good measure.

I just think the black powder shotgun is a subpar weapon for smokescreen/firepower combination. For those who are truly serious about protection and limited vision would use a Colt gatling gun with black powder ammunition

.

RMc · « **Reply #8 on:** September 27, 2018, 07:01:18 pm »

In the for what its worth department, here is a Black Powder Buckshot experimental load I put together a few years back. While this load could be further refined, it shows just what applying modern loading concepts to the oldest form of gunpowder can do.

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"I had a few new Cheddite 2.75" primed paper hulls left from another project, a partial box of Hornady 0B, some old Federal plastic shotcups and some .135 over powder card wads. Lets see now. Well 105 grains, (3.85 drams), of Goex FFFg went into the hull, then over powder wads, a Federal shot cup, ten 0B pellets, PSB buffer, finished with a thin OS card and then roll crimped. Oh, forgot to mention the pellets were stacked in layers of two to let the choke do its work.

Well finally got to touch off this throw-together load at the range. From an 18.5" Mossberg barrel with an old style Winchoke tube marked Imp. Mod., that black powder charge loudly belched forth fire, smoke and lead. Did I mention LOUD? When the smoke cleared, those ten 0B pellets had produced a 10" pattern some 25 yards downrange with 6 of the 10 pellets crowded into a 5" centered pattern core!

Old and new, fire and smoke, with a tight pattern to boot! "

Ref: https://wethearmed.com/shotguns/loading-buffered-buckshot-with-black-powder/

coelacanth · « **Reply #9 on:** September 28, 2018, 12:17:17 am »

Nice.

RMc · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2018, 11:13:21 am »

I might note the 2.75" 0B load above required a roll crimp/overshot card to fit the bulky powder and 2 per layer pellet stack. This brought the internal capacity equal to a 3" fold crimp hull with the same basewad height.

see:

https://wethearmed.com/shotguns/shotshell-loaded-length/

RMc · « **Reply #11 on:** September 28, 2018, 06:08:15 pm »

Quote from: MTK20 on August 15, 2018, 06:30:06 pm

For those who are truly serious about protection and limited vision would use a Colt gatling gun with black powder ammunition .

Indeed!

Back in the eighth decade of the last century, I witnessed just such an ammunition induced fog! It was down in Louisiana, just a few miles up the road from the thriving metropolis of *Thibodaux. And the Canebreak Combat Shooters were holding their big, end of the season, pistol match at the Lafourche Parish Sheriff's range.

It was one of those hot, sticky, Louisiana days with a heavy still humidity that you could just about cut with a bowie knife! The half-time show - if you could call it that - was a shooting demonstration starring a gleaming brass jacketed Gatling Gun! The big Accles Drum magazine took two men to lift it into place. That drum was loaded with 500 grain black powder 45-70 rounds.

Now, when the big crank was turned and that magnificent Gatling began spitting fire and lead; the whole backstop disapeared in a voluminous white cloud of sulfurous smoke!

* Gas stations, in Thibodaux, Louisiana, have pumps on both the highway side and along the main canal.

RMc · « **Reply #12 on:** November 22, 2018, 11:11:37 pm »

Well John Browning designed the A5 in the transition era from black to smokeless powder. And he designed the long recoil action to work with the shells then on the market.

Take a look at this jovial fellow's excursion to the "darkside" with all brass shells and the Remington Model 11:

coelacanth · « **Reply #13 on:** November 23, 2018, 01:25:32 am »

That was fun.

I think the transition to smokeless powder - particularly in shotshells - actually pre-dated it's widespread use in rifle and pistol ammunition. Some of the early "smokeless" propellants were actually suitable only for shotshells as I recall.

Certainly by the late 1920's smokeless powder shotshells were likely the predominant type in the marketplace - so while our intrepid tinkerer was entertaining to watch I don't think his idea that black powder shotshells were common to that time frame is correct.

RMc · « **Reply #14 on:** November 23, 2018, 07:18:33 am »

coelacanth,

Indeed, by the 1920's factory loaded black powder shotshells would have become a rarity on the market. Nonetheless, since John Browning's A5 was designed around 1898 and patented in 1900, the possibility of black powder use was at least considered at the time.

For a few years into the 20th century, smokeless and black powder shotshells were both commonly available. Yet, given the fouling buildup of black powder, I have no doubt smokeless powder shells would have been the choice to fill the mag tube!

coelacanth · « **Reply #15 on:** November 23, 2018, 02:35:43 pm »

True about the A5 and I'm sure the very early versions were subject to at least some use of the older black powder ( or in some cases white ) shot shells still in the market. That said I think the majority of those shells were used in the still common black powder shotguns of the era. If you were looking for your next shotgun on what was then the bleeding edge of technological advancement in the A5, I seriously doubt you would not have also sought out smokeless powder ammunition to run through it. It was certainly available - apparently widely available - by the outbreak of hostilities in WWI.

RMc · « **Reply #16 on:** August 03, 2020, 05:14:51 am »

Updated link.

In this time of scarcity, if one has need of buckshot, replete with all the fire and brimstone, these will definitely "light 'em up!"

https://www.buffaloarms.com/obsolete-hard-to-find-ammunition/shotgun-ammo/12-gauge-00-buck-shot-2-3-4-3-1-4-drams-of-black-powder-shotgun-ammo-25-rounds-per-box-amobp12ga00

wyatt · « **Reply #17 on:** August 03, 2020, 09:07:12 pm »

Quote from: RMc on August 03, 2020, 05:14:51 am

Updated link.

In this time of scarcity, if one has need of buckshot, replete with all the fire and brimstone, these will definitely "light 'em up!"

https://www.buffaloarms.com/obsolete-hard-to-find-ammunition/shotgun-ammo/12-gauge-00-buck-shot-2-3-4-3-1-4-drams-of-black-powder-shotgun-ammo-25-rounds-per-box-amobp12ga00

I have black powder and a buckshot mold. I wonder what diameter wads and overshot cards I'd need to load shot-shells? They'd have to be smaller than wads for a 12 gauge muzzle loading shotgun.

RMc · « **Reply #18 on:** August 04, 2020, 02:14:52 am »

Quote from: wyatt on August 03, 2020, 09:07:12 pm

I have black powder and a buckshot mold. I wonder what diameter wads and overshot cards I'd need to load shot-shells? They'd have to be smaller than wads for a 12 gauge muzzle loading shotgun.

This article will take you through the steps to find the right stack height for the wad column. It is quite simple to adjust the stack height to accomodate the greater bulk of buckshot.

http://www.dixieslugs.com/images/Shooting_the_Oldies.pdf

Precision loading carries proper card, fiber and felt wads for shotshells.
Note: Precision Loading felt wads are natural wool felt - best for black powder shotshells.

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!c=15&ga=12%20Gauge

For a bit more information on load possibilities:

https://wethearmed.com/shotguns/black-powder-and-low-pressure-smokeless-shotshell-loads/

And here for a load that fits exactly in 2.75" Federal Paper or Plastic with Paper basewad hulls with a fold crimp. Yes, FFFg is the powder for 12 bore cartridges like this. (A loaded 2.75" fold crimp hull has the same loaded internal capacity as a loaded 2.5" roll crimped hull).

https://wethearmed.com/reloading-and-handloading/when-you-really-want-all-the-fire-and-brimstone/msg357598/#msg357598

Remember, you can use longer hulls (assuming 3" chamber) and or roll crimp to gain additional internal capacity. This is handy if you want to use paper Dime rolls to build a shot cup. Then you could add modern buffer around large buckshot (00B - preferably stacked in layers of two for tight choke performance). For the best results cast your buckshot from "Hard Ball" alloy and quench in cold water.

https://wethearmed.com/reloading-and-handloading/when-you-really-want-all-the-fire-and-brimstone/msg357598/#msg357598

wyatt · « **Reply #19 on:** August 04, 2020, 12:47:43 pm »

Many thanks, RMc