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Author Topic: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.  (Read 8643 times)

Grant

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12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
« on: July 01, 2015, 07:59:56 pm »
   Well I had a dry spell abit, managed to sell my Beretta 1201 and get that awesome M16 upper from only1asterik  :thumbup1

 Well, I sold off a couple more things I never use and an itch has taken hold.....

   A 12 gauge double or a combination gun.....Well...the combo guns that I was wanting are going for high prices, $6-$800.  Savage .30-30/12's or the EAA .308/.30-06/7.62X39/12 gauges.  Out of production so prices are high...

better choice:  12 gauge double loaded with slugs  :cool

  Boiled down to a couple choices:

 #1. Stoeger Condor Outback. 20" barrel with interchangeable choke tubes, bare-bones notch and bead sights.   Price: $350.
Pros:  Cheaper, sights already installed, interchangeable choke tubes.
Cons:  No selector, must fire the bottom barrel first.  Kinda wanted to load buck in one, slug in the other.
 
 #2. Stoeger SXS coach gun. 20" Cylinder barrels.   Price:  $450. 
 Pros:  Double triggers, ability to choose which barrel you shoot. classier look (in my opinion)
 Cons: more expensive, also would need to add $60 to add a set of sights to it. 

   I can't decide.....It's not going to be a "USE" gun, it's mainly a gun for walkabouts (or driveabouts may be more appropriate) and plinking sessions.    That said, I wanted to emulate the old 10 and 12 bore paradox rifles.    Not a true double rifle, but using Brenneke 3" hardened 1 3/8" oz slugs,etc. it's pretty danged close, at least for the stuff I'd be shooting.   ALso be able to use bird and buckshot for cheap plinking, plus the occasional bird,etc.

    I would LIKE....to choose what barrel I shot, so I could load a slug in one barrel and buckshot in the other.

  I also know I couldn't "expect" both barrels to be regulated, but thus far I've had good luck shooting dad's Rossi overlander (20") a friends (formerly mine) Stoeger Uplander (28") and a Stevens 311 (20") in at least being minute-of-five-gallon--bucket at 100 yards.   

So...what sayeth the hive?
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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    booksmart

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #1 on: July 01, 2015, 08:35:09 pm »
    Coach gun is the only one that really fits how you want to operate... kinda makes the rest of it moot.

    RMc

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #2 on: July 01, 2015, 09:04:50 pm »
    Should you chose the SxS, it would seem proper to test it with the original bead on a flat sight system.  You may find that one barrel throws a slug to POA.  If so no additional sights would be needed.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #3 on: July 01, 2015, 10:01:21 pm »
    Agreed.  Shoot it first to determine what it needs - if anything.  I like double guns. Both flavors, but considering what you want to do with it I think the sxs is going to be your choice, ultimately. Some of the stackbarrels have a barrel selector with a single trigger but its not a universal feature on them.  I think the Tikka o/u's have it but I can't say for sure.

     Years ago the quality of the Stoeger guns was a bit suspect so I went with a Savage - Stevens 311 in 12 gauge from the used and abused rack and had the barrels bobbed and the front sight remounted. No choke left but it has served me well ever since and is plenty accurate for self defense out to 15 yards or so with any slugs or buckshot I care to load in it.  A lot of the Arizona guys have shot her at our desert shoots and given a thumbs up as well.  We call her Slappy.   :cool
     
    A gun for just knocking around and goofing off might make me think about a single barrel break action like the NEF guns.  They are hard to  beat in that role and you can't spend a fortune on one even if you went new.  The single round barrel and front bead calls for some instinctive shooting but you can usually hone that skill within a box or two of shells.  Less if you're a better shot than me ( not all that hard to do  :facepalm ). 
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    Grant

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #4 on: July 01, 2015, 11:17:45 pm »
      It's mainly going to be a slug gun and the barrel thing would be moot....but not always.

        I shoot dad's Rossi SXS 20" with hammers a fair bit with slugs, that's what has made me want to put a pair of sights on.  It works, but I want something a bit quicker, with longer-range accuracy.

       I was wondering if the O/U may put it's rounds a bit better than a SXS?  I know elevation is more likely to be off, but that would be easier than side to side placement.

       I actually have a H&R singleshot 12 gauge, I like it, it's rusty and the stocks old but it only cost me $55  :cool     

    Edit P.S.  We'll see. may go for too much but there's a Coach gun on an auctionblock that already has sights installed  :cool   See what it goes for I guess. 
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Kaso

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #5 on: July 02, 2015, 07:50:49 am »
    For the use you intend, (walkabout/drive about) I would recommend a Hammered double, so the firing pins remain uncocked until you are ready to fire.  I say you put rifle sights on one of the Chinese hammered doubles and call it good.  That should be well within your price range, and if you don't like it, you are not out much.



    Kaso

    Mississippi556

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #6 on: July 02, 2015, 08:40:44 am »
    There are reports on other boards of poor build quality on the Condor.  Not just a few, either.  Guns literally falling apart.  Just hearsay, no personal experience.  Might want to do some research if still considering it.
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

    luke213(adamsholsters)

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #7 on: July 02, 2015, 09:38:36 am »
    My own 2 cents I would follow what Steve did with the Stevens sxs. They are just good solid guns that I really have had good luck with. Back when we did allot of bear tracking that was our goto shotguns for deep woods. I prefer no hammers myself just something more to hang up in the woods and something more to do before firing or after reloading. I haven't had one in hand since I shot steves out in Arizona but it was a very familiar feeling handling one. Actually thinking about it I might just need to pick up one myself ;)

    Luke

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    Deer Hunter

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #8 on: July 02, 2015, 05:18:44 pm »
    Double barrel pump.

    aikorob

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #9 on: July 02, 2015, 07:11:05 pm »
    Double barrel pump.
    Did you ever completely finish your 1740?
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    ArizonaMOLON LABE

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #11 on: July 02, 2015, 08:34:15 pm »
    Did you ever completely finish your 1740?
    What's your definition of "finish"?

    I finished it, yeah. Years ago. I didn't fabricate a giant bayonet mount or anything, if that's what you mean.

    Deer Hunter

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #12 on: July 02, 2015, 08:35:18 pm »
    http://www.stoegerindustries.com/condor-outback-shotgun



    I have a Stoeger coach gun, and can say that it's been on canoe trips, upland bird hunts, and camping trips and never given me an issue.

    Grant

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #13 on: July 02, 2015, 09:44:01 pm »
      I've heard bad things about ALL stoegers  :shrug  I know two that've been abused beyond abuse and never a problem.  That said, I know of solid reliable type guns that have had lemons in their lineup too.

        I'm wanting hammerless (although Kaso, those Chinese doubles have made me really look at them.  I just can't find one to look at in-person first  :shrug  Never seen a single one, and I hesitate to buy without examining), for the smooth/non-snugness aspect, although I agree about the being cocked all the time.

       Looked at the O/U again today and drooled....but I'm waiting to see how high the SXS with sights goes. It's stayed the same price for 3 days....I'm sure it'll go up...but maybe within reach.
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #14 on: July 06, 2015, 07:01:10 pm »
    A friend and fellow author, Seth Anderson Bailey, has a vent-ribbed O/U, chrome plated AOW as his little handy car gun.  He's been showing quite a few pics of it for his Shotgun Summer. 

    Here's a link to it on his Instagram: https://instagram.com/p/4mNzBYA-Gn/?taken-by=s.a._bailey
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    MTK20

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #15 on: July 06, 2015, 11:04:48 pm »
    A friend and fellow author, Seth Anderson Bailey, has a vent-ribbed O/U, chrome plated AOW as his little handy car gun.  He's been showing quite a few pics of it for his Shotgun Summer. 

    Here's a link to it on his Instagram: https://instagram.com/p/4mNzBYA-Gn/?taken-by=s.a._bailey

    Now that's just unfair. Of all the many topics discussed with Seth, he never once mentioned his instagram to me.

    Looks like I'm gonna have to not purchase one of his books now, out of pure spite of course  :neener  :facepalm.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #16 on: July 07, 2015, 04:59:06 pm »
    Now that's just unfair. Of all the many topics discussed with Seth, he never once mentioned his instagram to me.

    Looks like I'm gonna have to not purchase one of his books now, out of pure spite of course  :neener  :facepalm.

    I just found it in my hunt for a picture of that loverly O/U Jeb Shaw special.
    IllinoisAfter a shooting spree, they want to take the guns away from everyone who didn't do it.

    -William Burroughs

    SJW is not a synonym of "leftists" or "liberals". Left-wing and right-wing positions are based on economics. SJWs are left-authoritarians which means that they are not liberals. Don't paint all leftists or liberals with the same (misguided) brush.

    MTK20

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #17 on: July 07, 2015, 05:52:49 pm »
    I just found it in my hunt for a picture of that loverly O/U Jeb Shaw special.

    A likely story.....  :P.

    Eventually, when funds permit, I'm gonna get a stoeger sxs. Something about the romanticism of the old west  :cool.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Grant

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #18 on: July 08, 2015, 12:34:25 am »
     Well I won the auction.  Got a stoeger SXS with sights already installed for only $45 more than the O/U.

      Now here's hoping that as a bonus both barrels will shoot close together  :cool
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Mississippi556

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #19 on: July 11, 2015, 08:44:45 am »
    Congrats!  I have only one side by side, a Browning BSS (Miroku) made in the '70s.  Beautiful gun, great for birds and upland game.  Handles like a dream.

    It is regulated for about 35-40 yards and in with birdshot.  It will not shoot slugs to the same point of aim, it seems, anywhere.  Beyond about 30 yards they start diverging widely, and worse with distance.  Over a foot apart at 75, and almost as low. This is a problem with all SxS shotguns, some more than others.  If you have adjustable sights you can fix elevation and one barrel point of impact.

    I never tried buckshot in it.
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

    Grant

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #20 on: July 15, 2015, 08:42:55 pm »
        Going to check regulation with the brands of slugs I have on hand (shows up Monday):
    2.75" 1oz loads Winchester super X, Remington Slugger, Federal truball.   1 1/8 oz loaded Rio.
    3" Winchester 1.25 Oz magnums and 1ozmagnums.

       If it shoots remotely close I plan on getting some Brenneke 1 3/8 oz black magics going 1500FPS.    That'll be the "big medicine" load  :cool   Maybe not elephant tough, but anything on north America.     Plus ya can't beat almost 2 ounces of lead in 3" buckshot shells  :cool


      It will have birdshot through it, but it'll primarily be slugs and buckshot.   

    Edit P.S.  Just found Ddupleks solid steel slugs....interesting....   
    « Last Edit: July 15, 2015, 09:14:32 pm by Grant »
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Grant

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #21 on: July 21, 2015, 12:27:46 am »
     Showed up today  :cool   Was super busy so I only got in about 45 minutes with only about 10 slugs fired through the shotgun at a local "range"....Results....

    HAPPY  :cool   

    I got lucky.  The range has a BUNCH of propane cylinders set out from 50 yards to 250.  Up to 75 yards both barrels will smack a propane cylinder, past that the left barrel starts shooting high, but still close out to 175 yards and the right barrel starts dropping FAST.

       Left barrel is DEAD ON.  I smacked a propane cylinder 3 for 3 at 150 yards....yeah...it was all the gun and not me. Lol.   Right barrel shoots way low at that range but....  75 yards, both barrels are hitting closen enough for deer/etc.      I'm satisfied.


    Also, if you ever are buying from someone?  Dury's Gun in Texas are a grade A company to deal with BTW.
       
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    booksmart

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #22 on: July 21, 2015, 07:36:35 am »
    So, which barrel gets the slugs, which gets the shot?

    Grant

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #23 on: July 21, 2015, 08:30:44 am »
    well....I think much of the time it'll be both barrels getting slugs  :cool 

    But if I load one barrel of each, left (rear trigger) is definitely getting the slug, and right (front trigger) is getting the buckshot.

    Going to hopefully get a bit of time today and check some 3" slugs and pattern buckshot and birdshot. 

    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Mississippi556

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    Re: 12 gauge double....SXS or O/U? WITH SIGHTS.
    « Reply #24 on: July 21, 2015, 04:59:50 pm »
    You got a winner there for sure.  Congrats. 
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

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