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Weapons and Gear => Rifles => Topic started by: Gundoc on January 22, 2009, 11:50:20 pm

Title: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on January 22, 2009, 11:50:20 pm
I've thought about writing on this subject for a while. In searching their history I found several good articles through out the net so I won't take too much time with that. Let's suffice it to say that everything started with John C. Garand and his celebrated M1 rifle. Post WWII there were requests for improvement. For the most part more ammunition capacity and a detachable magazine was wanted. The question was how to do it. Once again they turned to Mr. Garand. He gave them his initial drawings but in them the rifle was still chambered in .30-06 and that wasn't what was really wanted by the time said drawings arrived. You see, one of the other men on the project was working on a new ammunition based on the .30-06 but shorter, lighter (some what) but performed almost identically to the .30-06. Of course that was the 7.62x51 NATO or the .308 Win.

When examining the action there was very little that needed to be changed. The trigger guard needed to be opened up for the magazine and a retention system added. Not that difficult. Make the magazine rock into place so there is a place for it to be held front and rear. Little need be done to the receiver for that to happen. Minor changes in the original machining process and you have it.

We can always use a higher rate of fire in a battle rifle. That's a given. So we have the first major change in the rifle. On the exposed right locking lug they simply added a steel roller. Keep it lubed and it will serve you well. Since we took the metal to metal friction out of the picture on this side the action is much cycles faster.

There was a function on the M14 that doesn't exist on the civilian version. That is the selection knob. Sure you still had the same safety lever as the M1. The trigger mech still functioned the same as the M1. But now with the M14 on the back of the receiver we have a knob that by turning to one setting or the other one can choose between the M1's semi-auto and the new full auto. This effectively gave us the worlds only battle rifle that dueled as a squad automatic weapon. Of course for the civilian market this feature was never added.

These are fantastic rifles that just never quit. They're built tough as a tank. I've worked with ones that had seen action in Vietnam, therefore having the full auto knob, That still shot remarkably well. With a good shock bedding job these rifles are still used as sniper/ dedicated marksman rifles. They're great for shots up to 800 meters depending on the quality of the bedding job and the person behind the trigger. I've watched Marine Scout Snipers with these rifles make up to 1000 meter shots with these accurately. Of course at that range you are trying for minute of human not head shots.

There's enough room in the receivers of the M1, M14, M1A to take a beating and keep on ticking. They were a favorite of service men in Vietnam. When other rifles just wouldn't work the M14 just kept going and actually saved lives because it was often the only rifle still running in the squad but that's a story for another day.

Naturally a clean rifle is a happy rifle. Everyone that will ever come in contact with this article will already know that. So I won't go on about that. One thing I to want to discuss is lube. From the days of the M1 Garand these rifles were designed to run with grease. The biggest place for this is the Operation Rod Spring. The easiest way to apply it is to put a liberal glob on the op rod where the spring enters it. Then slowly spin the spring through the grease until it is fully seated. Clear the excess away and use it elsewhere.

These rifles are built so well there is little that goes wrong with them. It would be a good idea to keep a couple Op Rod Springs on hand. This will be the first thing to wear out and when it does it caused problems throughout the action. You see it is this spring that closes the action after it's been fired or upon loading. If this spring doesn't have enough strength the action wont close all the way, the action is disconnected, and will not fire. That spring is everything. One other to keep things flowing nicely is the extractor spring. They rarely wear out but cause problems when they do. A replacement is a good idea.

Keep it clean, including the piston (no oil or grease on the piston ever). A bronze brush is the easiest way to keep the piston alive and well.

Ok, we're done here. You are now all but experts on the M1 down to the M1A. Hope you enjoyed the article and found it informative.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: GeorgeHill on January 23, 2009, 12:46:47 am
Quote
Hope you enjoyed the article and found it informative.
I did, indeed.  Thank you.   :clap
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on January 23, 2009, 10:29:45 pm
I appreciate it, George.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Khorne on January 23, 2009, 11:10:11 pm
I would love to see a write up like this about other rifles.  For example, I'd love to know what part on my AK will be the first to go.  Very well done.  If I ever bought an M-14, I'd copy and paste this article to my lap top for personal use.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on January 23, 2009, 11:14:59 pm
I would love to see a write up like this about other rifles.  For example, I'd love to know what part on my AK will be the first to go.  Very well done.  If I ever bought an M-14, I'd copy and paste this article to my lap top for personal use.

Thanks much, Khorne. I'll work on an AK article. I can tell you the list of parts to have will be even shorter. Come to think of it I'm not sure what I would put on the list. I'll start on it.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: JesseL on January 23, 2009, 11:20:23 pm
Thanks much, Khorne. I'll work on an AK article. I can tell you the list of parts to have will be even shorter. Come to think of it I'm not sure what I would put on the list. I'll start on it.

I managed to wear out the trigger/hammer/disconnector on my AK by bump firing it from the shoulder by milking the trigger. It turned itself into a release trigger. :o

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on January 23, 2009, 11:24:16 pm
I managed to wear out the trigger/hammer/disconnector on my AK by bump firing it from the shoulder by milking the trigger. It turned itself into a release trigger. :o


Well sure if you abuse it, it will wear out... :neener
I already had that one covered. I'll get everything put to gether and up ASAP.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: GeorgeHill on January 23, 2009, 11:27:54 pm
The AR article will have 7 pages of parts.   :neener
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on January 24, 2009, 02:24:03 am
The AR article will have 7 pages of parts.   :neener
Very funny... :neener
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Old Trooper on January 26, 2009, 07:13:05 pm
I have an M-1A National Match and a 1903A3 Springfield. Both are very accurate and a pleasure to shoot.
Real rifles are made from wood and steel, have iron sights and are fine tools.

Great article!
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on January 26, 2009, 07:47:51 pm
Thank you.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Penguin on February 07, 2009, 03:44:41 pm
I enjoyed the read thanks.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Khorne on February 07, 2009, 03:48:26 pm
Okay, AK is too easy, what about a CETME/G3?  I got one of them and I could use a good PMCS breakdown of the thing.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on February 07, 2009, 05:13:42 pm
Okay, AK is too easy, what about a CETME/G3?  I got one of them and I could use a good PMCS breakdown of the thing.
Sorry, PMCS??? Not familier with that one. Glad to put something together for it though.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Old Trooper on February 09, 2009, 03:55:21 pm
PMCS? I smell an Old Grunt here!

I'm an Old Grunt so Preventive Maintenance Checks & Services is well understood.  ;D
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mnw42 on February 28, 2009, 12:37:02 am
A gun rag article that would make me want to buy a gun rag:  "Shoot out: the M1A vs. the FAL vs. the CETME/G3"

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: FMJ on May 27, 2009, 07:08:53 pm
Question:  With what substance is the op-rod for a Garand best lubed with?  And where could aforementioned lubricant be found?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on May 27, 2009, 07:28:59 pm
Question:  With what substance is the op-rod for a Garand best lubed with?  And where could aforementioned lubricant be found?

It was made to be lubed with grease. Brownells or MidwayUSA usually has a couple different brands. RIG grease is a good brand.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: FMJ on May 27, 2009, 07:41:03 pm
Thank You very much Gundoctor.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on May 27, 2009, 07:43:06 pm
any time.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Garaballo on September 04, 2009, 04:06:42 pm
What is the main difference between a semi M14 and a Mil M14, Fulton's etc.

I know that the main difference between the M4 and the M4geries is the addition of metal in the rear of the lower receiver, but what makes the M14 look alike non auto?.

Other than that, what would it take some one to rechamber it for .243 other than the new barrel, would it require Gas port tunning or would it just require weaker springs?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Khorne on September 04, 2009, 06:00:12 pm
I've been thinking of a new gun and many people suggest the M-14 family.  How is its accuracy compared to other weapons of its caliber?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mnw42 on September 04, 2009, 06:58:28 pm
A good bolt gun will be more accurate at a much lower price.  As fore semi-autos the AR is probably a bit more mechanically accurate, but from a practical stand point the M1A is superior to shoot.  A decent M1A will keep up with even the best commercial ARs in the accuracy department.

The irons on the M1A are, IMHO, are some of the best put on any rifle, but scope mounting can be easier on an AR.  The M1A requires a special mount.

I have seen HKs print some decent groups, but scope mounting options are limited.  FALs are fantastic implements of battle, but a precision instrument it is not.

The FNARs I have seen are quite accurate, but the fuggly look and proprietary mags put me off a bit.

Just my 2¢
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Oohrah on September 29, 2009, 10:41:27 pm
I guess I own one that went the other way.   Springfield (Not sure of the year of manufacture) M1 Garand.  Target hooded sights with narrow front.  Glass beded stock and barreled in the 308 or 7.62x51.  No barrel markings, and I suspect one of the Navy target builds.   I use the same clips as the 06, and no glitches on feeding and fuction.   Very accurate!
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: American Rifleman on October 25, 2009, 04:58:44 pm
Are m1a's downgrade m14's, or are they civilian makes?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ksuguy on October 25, 2009, 05:09:56 pm
They are the civilian version without full auto capability. 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Matthew Mayner on October 25, 2009, 05:12:33 pm
Also the M1A from the private company Springfield Armory, has a cast receiver.  Vs the GI M14 that has a forged receiver.  Shouldn't make much difference.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Oohrah on November 23, 2009, 07:33:54 pm
Gun Doctor, this was such a good, simple, informative artical, that I keep rereading the in- formation.  I'm old school with thhe Garand being my pirmary TO weapon.  Break in grease was white lubriplate, with the only down side was it would dry out and lose any viscosity  to spread.
Once broke in, I can't recall using it except yearly qualifications when a dap into caming recesses and bolt lug surfaces was done for insurance of operation.  Now all my personal Garands, and Cememonial  Garands get the same areas serviced with Militec 1 Grease.  Works better than any other lith or graphite gease that has been tried.  So far there have been no malfuntions of any type with these Garands, even the nasty blanks, both old and new type.  Thanks once more for this information! :clap
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Bo Smith on November 23, 2009, 07:39:22 pm
Also the M1A from the private company Springfield Armory, has a cast receiver.  Vs the GI M14 that has a forged receiver.  Shouldn't make much difference.

The SAI rifles are indeed cast, but several other semiautomatic brands, including the chicoms and the new LRB receivers, are forged to spec. 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on November 23, 2009, 08:34:12 pm
Gun Doctor, this was such a good, simple, informative artical, that I keep rereading the in- formation.  I'm old school with thhe Garand being my pirmary TO weapon.  Break in grease was white lubriplate, with the only down side was it would dry out and lose any viscosity  to spread.
Once broke in, I can't recall using it except yearly qualifications when a dap into caming recesses and bolt lug surfaces was done for insurance of operation.  Now all my personal Garands, and Cememonial  Garands get the same areas serviced with Militec 1 Grease.  Works better than any other lith or graphite gease that has been tried.  So far there have been no malfuntions of any type with these Garands, even the nasty blanks, both old and new type.  Thanks once more for this information! :clap

You are quite welcome.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: chiwar7178 on January 22, 2010, 01:54:48 am
Slipstream grease for my new M1A.  I will report on it after I put a few hundred rounds downrange.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: toad on April 14, 2010, 07:38:25 pm
When I want to torture myself I'll go to M14/M1a  accessories and rifle websites like Fulton , Smith, and etc.  They have kinds of goodies for those rifles.

What really gets me to drooling are the aftermarket aluminum stocks.  In ye olde days if you bedded a M1 style action you had to be careful not to pull the action from the stock to often or it would get sloppy.  A add on for the actions was a lug at the rear of the reciever that was welded on to give more contact area for bedding.  With the Troy and Sage stocks no problem and you get all the bell and whistle  mounting rails and the barrel floats. 
 
Of course you are talking real lottery money there.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mnw42 on April 14, 2010, 09:03:23 pm
Troy stock also makes it very heavy.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Coronach on July 27, 2010, 10:12:19 pm
The JAE stock floats the barrel (IIRC), is more traditional in profile, and weighs less. Still spenderiffic, and I have no idea about the relative quality between the JAE and the other two.

Mike
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Car 4 on October 28, 2010, 12:21:45 am
Very good article....I carried one of these for 4 years while wearing an ugly shade of green. I love that gun and would gladly own one. I trained at Ord and the beach ranges are burned into my memory....we ran every day (both ways) rather than take the cattle cars because our training Lt. had just gotten orders for Nam and didn't want to go with a bunch of pansies. Guess he never heard of fragging...Lol.

My DI, SFC James Browning was the best natural shot I have ever seen. I know that he could hit a pop up off hand at 600 meters with his personal gun. He was accused of having the range master hit the trigger switch to make him look good....but I was there one day when he asked me to go out and place a new target on the flipper. When I went back out to get it, there were three holes in it....he had fired four times.

I qualified expert each year for the four years I was in...and came to believe that I could kill anything if only I could get a sight picture. I think I could still  fieldstrip the beast in the dark. As I said, I love that gun. Thanks for the read.


Car 4
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: FMJ on October 28, 2010, 02:42:11 am
Very good article....I carried one of these for 4 years while wearing an ugly shade of green. I love that gun and would gladly own one. I trained at Ord and the beach ranges are burned into my memory....we ran every day (both ways) rather than take the cattle cars because our training Lt. had just gotten orders for Nam and didn't want to go with a bunch of pansies. Guess he never heard of fragging...Lol.

My DI, SFC James Browning was the best natural shot I have ever seen. I know that he could hit a pop up off hand at 600 meters with his personal gun. He was accused of having the range master hit the trigger switch to make him look good....but I was there one day when he asked me to go out and place a new target on the flipper. When I went back out to get it, there were three holes in it....he had fired four times.

I qualified expert each year for the four years I was in...and came to believe that I could kill anything if only I could get a sight picture. I think I could still  fieldstrip the beast in the dark. As I said, I love that gun. Thanks for the read.


Car 4


Thank you for your service.


You'll never guess which former US Military base is practically up the road from me and where I like to ride mountain bikes....  :)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Car 4 on October 28, 2010, 03:18:36 am

Thank you for your service.


You'll never guess which former US Military base is practically up the road from me and where I like to ride mountain bikes....  :)

So what hapened to it? I went to DC for school and then overseas....not to return for 4 years. I heard that they closed it but always wondered what they did with it.

Car 4
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: FMJ on October 28, 2010, 01:42:30 pm


They decommissioned it in 1994, IIRC.  Parts of it now constitute Cal State Monterey Bay (CSUMB).  Other parts are just closed off and stuff; some people that I know like to rummage through the old baracks and depots.  They say they are quite creepy.  The open parts of the area are now BLM land (and there are a lot of warning signs about UXO all over the trails).  I've also "discovered" where the actual rifle range is (on the other side of the highway).

You'd be surprised because I've recovered old rusty spent brass and I even have a couple 7.62NATO bullets that I dug out of the berm.  It's all Lake City from the 1960s.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: sarge712 on October 28, 2010, 04:32:24 pm
Thanks Gundoctor. I needed the info on spare parts, lubing, etc.

I have a Springfield M1A Scout/Squad as my MBR and a Winchester Garand that had been sent to Israel, rechambered in .308, used there for a while then sold back to an importer in the US. I bought it on a whim in Sevierville, Tennessee back in 1997 at Wynne's Sporting Goods before they went out of business. I love it so much I'm considering buying a new one in .308 from Springfield.

If the Garand were my only weapon, I'd still be very well armed indeed. In addition to it's rugged reliability, I think it (and by extension, my M1A Scout/Squad) has the best adjustable iron sights of any rifle.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Car 4 on October 30, 2010, 12:04:47 am
They decommissioned it in 1994, IIRC.  Parts of it now constitute Cal State Monterey Bay (CSUMB).  Other parts are just closed off and stuff; some people that I know like to rummage through the old baracks and depots.  They say they are quite creepy.  The open parts of the area are now BLM land (and there are a lot of warning signs about UXO all over the trails).  I've also "discovered" where the actual rifle range is (on the other side of the highway).

You'd be surprised because I've recovered old rusty spent brass and I even have a couple 7.62NATO bullets that I dug out of the berm.  It's all Lake City from the 1960s.

Thanks FMJ....lots of memories tied up with that place. I was in one of the big concrete two story barracks (new at that time).

Car 4 :facepalm
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Chief45 on October 30, 2010, 12:16:40 am
We have 2 of the M-14's that we got from DRMO.  One with a decent wood stock and one with a newer composite stock.  The wood stock, covered with cosmoline and stuck in a vacuum bag since it was de-milled in 1984, so probably 25 years anyway, basically had to strip it but it refinished nicely.   

For 50's era MBR's, the barrels are in very good shape, no visible wear and they shot very good.
DRMO basically sold them to the department for $75.00 each plus shipping. 

 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: MacLean on November 03, 2010, 11:16:39 pm
Anyone know anything about the Fulton Armory M1As?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Chief45 on November 19, 2010, 02:55:09 pm
This was de-milled in about 1984, coated with cosmoline and stuck in a vacuum bag for several years. The wood stock was bad.  Over the course of about a week, it was stripped, sanded and refinished.  I was rather pleased with the way it turned out.  
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: GeorgeHill on November 19, 2010, 03:13:09 pm
That wood has character... a soul... I love it. 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mnw42 on December 01, 2010, 08:00:00 pm
That is some pretty wood!
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on January 07, 2011, 12:09:56 am
That is some pretty wood!

There's a joke in that comment that I'm just going to leave alone.... :rotfl
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: American Rifleman on January 23, 2011, 03:45:11 am
There's a joke in that comment that I'm just going to leave alone.... :rotfl

That's what sh......no.......
sorry, after seeing that i couldn't resist.  ::)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mnw42 on February 26, 2011, 04:30:02 pm
Sometimes the simplest jokes are the best. ;D
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mattitude on August 30, 2011, 12:51:35 am
Joe, nice read!  I am a bit surprised that you didn't mention about greasing the bolt roller bearing.  There is a small special tool that helps to force the grease into the bearing as opposed to just applying it to the exterior.  It is very important that the bearing is PROPERLY lubed otherwise it will actually hurt the performance more than helping it.  An improperly or ungreased bearing can and will rust internally and can seize up.  I love me a good M1A but caution must be observed when shooting match ammo or reloaded ammo with benchrest primers as the (heavy) floating firing pin is notorious for causing slam-fires.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: GeorgeHill on August 30, 2011, 12:12:34 pm
You mean to use Slipstream Grease in that roller bearing.  Now THAT is properly lubed.

I have it on good authority that Slipstream is an amazing grease for wheel bearings too.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: dstocum on August 30, 2011, 04:09:38 pm
Joe, nice read!  I am a bit surprised that you didn't mention about greasing the bolt roller bearing.  There is a small special tool that helps to force the grease into the bearing as opposed to just applying it to the exterior.  It is very important that the bearing is PROPERLY lubed otherwise it will actually hurt the performance more than helping it.  An improperly or ungreased bearing can and will rust internally and can seize up.  I love me a good M1A but caution must be observed when shooting match ammo or reloaded ammo with benchrest primers as the (heavy) floating firing pin is notorious for causing slam-fires.

If you don't want to buy the special tool to grease the roller (or if you lose it) you can create your own easily enough. I used a 40 S&W case expanded somewhat with my 45 expander to slip tightly over the roller, packed the case with grease, and it worked great. Other pistol brass is probably better suited to this; a 41 or 44 case may work as is, but I'm not at home to check so I'm not sure.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 29, 2011, 09:42:41 am
Are m1a's downgrade m14's, or are they civilian makes?

Most M14s that are currently in service are altered to fire semi-auto only.

As mentioned, Springfield Armory, Inc. M1As use a cast receiver, but the newer ones also use cast parts.

Using cast parts on a USGI M14 would downgrade the M14.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mattitude on November 11, 2011, 01:18:42 pm
I've heard from many sources that the Springfield M1A's cast receiver is slightly out of spec when it comes to installing a GI or GI spec scope mount.  If you want a great FORGED receiver that is completely spec then find a Polytech.  They were extremely popular for custom builds solely for the receiver and at one time the complete rifle was the same price or even cheaper than an aftermarket US made forged receiver.  Some say that the bolts weren't properly heat treated but others have thousands of rounds through their Polys with no headspace issues.

As mentioned, Springfield Armory, Inc. M1As use a cast receiver, but the newer ones also use cast parts.

Using cast parts on a USGI M14 would downgrade the M14.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on November 14, 2011, 07:03:24 am
Yes, yes and yes.


I've heard from many sources that the Springfield M1A's cast receiver is slightly out of spec when it comes to installing a GI or GI spec scope mount.  If you want a great FORGED receiver that is completely spec then find a Polytech.  They were extremely popular for custom builds solely for the receiver and at one time the complete rifle was the same price or even cheaper than an aftermarket US made forged receiver.  Some say that the bolts weren't properly heat treated but others have thousands of rounds through their Polys with no headspace issues.


All of my M14s are custom built on forged Norinco and Poly Tech receivers... I even use Norinco and Poly Tech trigger groups that have SEI's MAX-PAK.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Garaballo on November 14, 2011, 12:45:29 pm
I was gonna start another post but I think this may be the best place...

Has anyone seen a custom M1A with a Picatinny rail atop of the receiver instead of Irons?

I knew I saw one once, but for the life of me I haven't been able to get a hold of the company again, those where the same that where offering custom M1As in .243 Win.

Any luck?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on November 14, 2011, 02:41:48 pm
White Feather?

LRB and NSWC CRANE have their versions of this.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Garaballo on November 28, 2011, 01:48:11 pm
Hm, no I don't think so, the one I saw completely removed the rear sight housing and instead there was a milled rail built into the receiver.

Or maybe I'm hallucinating.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on December 09, 2011, 03:49:33 am
For the EBR owner

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/M14HDW.US_NAVY_M14_MULTI-TOOL.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mattitude on December 09, 2011, 04:13:54 pm
...and where & how much can one get one of those tools for?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: JesseL on December 09, 2011, 05:20:18 pm
...and where & how much can one get one of those tools for?

$195
http://www.athenswater.com/EBR_KIT.html (http://www.athenswater.com/EBR_KIT.html)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mattitude on December 09, 2011, 10:47:40 pm
...that's a little too rich for for me for what it is.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on December 15, 2011, 11:13:39 am
Can they be found for less?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on December 15, 2011, 03:57:13 pm
Can they be found for less?

Yes they can!


$195

http://www.athenswater.com/EBR_KIT.html (http://www.athenswater.com/EBR_KIT.html)

$170.00
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: sarge712 on December 15, 2011, 08:33:36 pm
Is there a polymer mag on the level of a MagPul P-Mag, for the M1A?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on December 17, 2011, 07:37:59 am
None that I know of.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on December 24, 2011, 08:19:25 am
Frank sent me one of his new generation, 4 point M14/M1A scope mounts, the CASM®.
It arrived yesterday and I can't wait to install it on my MK14 Mod 0!

M14.ca (http://www.m14.ca/)

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/CASM-1.JPG)
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/CASM.JPG)

The color matches up with my FDE Leupold Mark 4 and it will replace
 my EBR rings, the optic will ride in low wire EDM rings from SEI.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: FMJ on December 30, 2011, 03:07:38 am
Is there a polymer mag on the level of a MagPul P-Mag, for the M1A?

There isn't.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on February 09, 2012, 05:47:49 am
The price is now just $148.00

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/EBR-multiTool.JPG)




BTW, I've finished my USN MK14 Mod 0 type SEI.

I know it's not for everyone, but I'm real happy with how it turned out.

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/MK14SEI-R.JPG)

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/MK14SEI-CASM.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on February 09, 2012, 11:23:31 am
That is one solid looking rifle.   :cool
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ZeroTA on February 09, 2012, 07:55:00 pm
So... I kinda bid on one on Gunbroker. It's a low bid and I probably won't win but now I've convinced myself I can't live without one.  So one way or another I'm gonna have one sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mattitude on February 09, 2012, 10:50:07 pm
Zero, I happen to have a spare Springfield Scout if you are interested...
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ZeroTA on February 09, 2012, 11:20:18 pm
Uh.....well, seeing as I just got outbid.... PM on the way.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on February 10, 2012, 08:33:17 am
So... I kinda bid on one on Gunbroker.
It's a low bid and I probably won't win but now I've convinced myself I can't live without one. 
So one way or another I'm gonna have one sooner rather than later.

Did you bid on this one (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=272925887)?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ZeroTA on February 10, 2012, 01:56:17 pm
Nope, not that one. Wait, I just put two and two together...that's yours? Nice, but out of my budget.

Hey, Powerball's $310,000,000 tomorrow so you might be hearing from me after all.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on April 10, 2012, 08:56:36 am
That is one solid looking rifle.   :cool

Thanks! ... there is much more to see on my new facebook page: H2O MAN's addiction to M14s (https://www.facebook.com/pages/H2O-MANs-addiction-to-M14s/425529914130869)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 17, 2012, 07:35:22 am
My new Blackfeather RS chassis is on the way  :thumbup1

(http://www.m14.ca/m14blackfeather/M14_Blackfeather.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: HiVelSword on May 17, 2012, 10:29:10 am
That's beautiful. I wonder if those pouches can hold 25 round mags?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on July 25, 2012, 09:21:37 am
That's beautiful. I wonder if those pouches can hold 25 round mags?

I'm not sure about that vest, but you may want to check out this M14 Chest Rig

http://www.usgruntgear.com/m14-chest-r14.html (http://www.usgruntgear.com/m14-chest-r14.html)
Title: Representing the M14 family in a contest
Post by: H2O MAN on July 29, 2012, 12:48:55 pm
 :thumbup1 Representing the M14 family in a contest

As far as I know, mine is the only M14 entered in this video contest.
Please like it with a thumbs up.

Xs-Products Drum Magazine Challenge Entry # 009C (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egs1M9vVP0M#ws)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Pez on August 29, 2012, 09:46:20 am
After firing a borrowed garand for the first time a few years back, I got an itch to get one of my own. Once I held it, everything just clicked into place and none of the my complaints about the M16 were there. It just felt right!

I would like to get one, but my question is, are there any companies that currently manufacture garands/garand receivers or are all garands on the civilan market all assembled from surplus components? I want it as a hunting/home defense rifle, not as a safe queen, so I want it to be reliable and accurate but am not concerned about its collectability.

How does the Springfield M1 series, with a flush 4-5 round mag, compare to the garand in terms of feel and balance?
Title: Re: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on August 29, 2012, 10:29:34 am
After firing a borrowed garand for the first time a few years back, I got an itch to get one of my own. Once I held it, everything just clicked into place and none of the my complaints about the M16 were there. It just felt right!

I would like to get one, but my question is, are there any companies that currently manufacture garands/garand receivers or are all garands on the civilan market all assembled from surplus components? I want it as a hunting/home defense rifle, not as a safe queen, so I want it to be reliable and accurate but am not concerned about its collectability.

How does the Springfield M1 series, with a flush 4-5 round mag, compare to the garand in terms of feel and balance?

I'm not aware of any new manufactured M1's or anyone assembling surplus parts. I could be wrong. Every M1 I've seen has been an original. Springfield's M1A is patterned after the M14, the Garand's little brother.

You must live pretty far into the country if you're looking to shoot 30-06 for defense.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ksuguy on August 29, 2012, 10:46:35 am
Your best bet for a "new" Garand is a CMP Special grade.  They use excellent condition parts, new barrels, springs and stocks and completely refinish everything.  Mine looks like a brand new gun.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: JesseL on August 29, 2012, 10:57:27 am
Springfield was making new production M1 Garands for a while. I believe that's what coyotesfan97's M1 is.


Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Raptor on August 29, 2012, 10:59:22 am
Fulton Armory appears to be building Garands off original USGI recievers. They have several different "grades" available, but they're all pricy (basic "Service Rifle" starts at a hair under $1,700).
Title: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Omaha In June on August 29, 2012, 11:21:51 am
Now here's a thought. What about a Garand EBR? Is it even possible?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: JesseL on August 29, 2012, 12:35:20 pm
Now here's a thought. What about a Garand EBR? Is it even possible?

What exactly do you mean by EBR though? Black synthetic stock? Pistol grip? Detachable mag?

Anything is possible, but you'd basically be reinventing the Beretta BM59 or M14.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_BM59 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_BM59)
(http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/thumb/d/d6/BM59A.jpg/400px-BM59A.jpg)
Title: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Omaha In June on August 29, 2012, 07:02:57 pm
True. I was thinking more about using the receiver and barrel for your base. It would save you some cash using a CMP Garand. I just don't know if it would fit in a Sage or McMillan stock. Could it be modified to take mags, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on August 29, 2012, 09:58:42 pm
No it wouldn't. You're talking about stocks for the M14...308...and M1...30-06. Too different. You'd ruin the stock trying to make it fit.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ksuguy on August 29, 2012, 11:19:52 pm
Tim Shufflin will do a Garand magazine conversion.    http://shuffsparkerizing.com/ (http://shuffsparkerizing.com/)     I had him rebarrel and refinish the woodless Winchester I bought from the CMP and he does really good work.  You can see that here:  https://wethearmed.com/rifles/got-my-restored-garand-back-today (https://wethearmed.com/rifles/got-my-restored-garand-back-today)!/msg179307/#msg179307

Of course, you can probably just buy an M1A for the same amount of money and less hassle.   
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on August 30, 2012, 08:58:27 am

 What about a Garand EBR? Is it even possible?


(http://www.athenswater.com/images/sag_ebr_stock-tfb.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gunnguy on August 30, 2012, 09:30:18 am
 :shocked
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Chief45 on August 30, 2012, 11:50:17 am
upon seeing that picture, my first thought was,  OMG,  what &%*(%#$&($ could possibly do such a thing.   

That's Just Wrong !


 >:(

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on August 30, 2012, 03:02:17 pm
I bet it shoots great and if I could figure out how to install a DC Vortex flash hider or
one of SEI's DC brakes on the barrel of an M1 Garand I would give it a try because
I would love to send some .30-06 through my M14 DC sound suppressor someday.
Title: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Omaha In June on August 30, 2012, 03:35:17 pm
I new somebody would have done it. Now I'll just wipe the drool from my iPhone...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Pez on August 30, 2012, 10:12:33 pm


You must live pretty far into the country if you're looking to shoot 30-06 for defense.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2

Wasn't planning on using 165 or 180gr. I was thinking more like 125gr at 3100 FPS for massive energy dump at short ranges. I suspect I wouldnt get much more than 15" of penetration at short ranges bc of bullet disruption but the permanent cavity would be impressive.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Fiesta Resistance on September 29, 2012, 08:26:08 pm
So all the talk about "the one rifle" made me decide to get my build into gear. I'm sporting a RDS for the short term until I can pick up a low-power scout scope. I would love an Accupoint at the 1-4x level, but another $800 on this thing would be kind of spendy. I know Leupold has a scout scope at the same magnification for ~$400. I guess the question is whether or not that extra cash is really a big enough improvement. Also, anyone think it's better to go with a receiver mount or keep the factory scout mount?

 (http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w394/heffster2/IMAG0477.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on October 05, 2012, 10:17:20 pm
Fiesta Resistance, consider a Nikon 2.5-8x28 Force XR EER
Handgun Scope on a M8 railed hand guard from UltiMAK.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Coronach on October 06, 2012, 12:58:41 am
Can that be mounted low enough, and is the eye relief adequate for M14 use?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Penguin on October 06, 2012, 02:36:48 am
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/sag_ebr_stock-tfb.jpg)

Ugly, but I would bet it is fairly light. Probably shoots well too. That would be an interisting one to handle to get a feel for the balance and such. I don't know if I would like it but, I have to admit that the first time I handled an M1A in one of those sugly stocks I was impressed.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on October 06, 2012, 08:07:40 am
Can that be mounted low enough, and is the eye relief adequate for M14 use?



Yes and yes... Eye Relief (in)12-30 (@ 2.5x), 9-13 (@ 8x)

Link to web site (http://www.nikonhunting.com/products/riflescopes/force-xr/2.5-8x28_BDC_HANDGUN/8468) click Specifications button
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Coronach on October 06, 2012, 07:06:05 pm
I saw the specs. I just wasn't sure, offhand, what ER would be required. And, is that height estimate based upon using a cheek riser, or the bare stock?

My goal is to get as low to the rail as possible with a QD setup. Return to zero capability not required, but rock solid mounting is a must. The QD function would only be used to ditch the optic.

Mike

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on October 07, 2012, 07:47:01 am
Mike, I have not used this scope and don't know anyone that has yet, but it looks like a good choice.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on November 23, 2012, 01:50:41 pm
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac160/The_H2O_MAN/CL-18-RRM.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Coronach on November 23, 2012, 04:06:03 pm
Details?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on November 23, 2012, 06:30:36 pm

Details?

18" barreled action in a GI synthetic with RRM.
I may replace the Vortex with a Coast Guard brake.

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Coronach on November 24, 2012, 04:55:25 am
RRM? And I was hoping that someone finally did what I have been saying they should do for years, which is put a chassis system/bedding block into a stock that externally looks like a USGI stock ...

Mike

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on November 24, 2012, 09:09:29 am
RRM? And I was hoping that someone finally did what I have been saying they should do for years, which is put a chassis system/bedding block into a stock that externally looks like a USGI stock ...

Mike





Mike, RRM stands for Rigid Rail Modification and you can read all about it in this old post (http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?1130-New-M14-Modification-and-range-test-results%28shameless-plug%29) over on militaryfirearm.com

Note the blue tape with H2O written on it... sadly, HALFMOA went missing with customers cash & stocks a couple months later  :(
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Fiesta Resistance on November 26, 2012, 05:13:12 pm
I guess this is the right place to write about my Scout Squad since this is the M1A sticky so...

I love this rifle. I have had it for a little over eight months and it has definitely become my "go-to" gun replacing my custom AK build. I bought this rifle mainly because I wanted to have some American heavy metal (and yes, I know the receivers are foreign manufacture) to round out my collection but I never thought it would be this great. I don't think I'll be building a stable of M14 clones in my safe any time soon, but it could happen one day. Probably not though: I could see the Mistress getting jealous if another, younger lady suddenly showing up.

I do have a few questiong about the rifle at this point. Mainly, how long I can expect the barrel to last and is it normal for the rifle to beat the s___ out of the brass? I have already put almost a thousand rounds through her and I can see a lot more coming down the line. I'm not planning on using steel case so that'll keep her fresh for longer, but have those of you who shoot M1A's regularly ever had one re-barrelled? What was your approximate round count at that point? And my brass is looking kind of rough after I shoot it. It's a bit pricey to shoot .308 so I want to get into reloading but I can easily see the case rims getting destroyed well before the brass itself is worn out. Should I be looking at getting a new extractor or is this normal? I'll take some pics of my brass and post them in the next day or so.

Thanks everybody.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on December 01, 2012, 10:53:03 pm
Sharp pointy thing

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac160/The_H2O_MAN/CrowdControl.jpg)

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: wowser on May 21, 2013, 08:00:21 pm
well, the full auto aspect proved to be essentially worthless, which is why they took the selector off of the issued M14's. personally, I am of the opinion that it defeats our purpose to have such a selector on the M16, too.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: TommyGunn on May 21, 2013, 11:31:10 pm
OK I have a question.  I'm not entirely sure it makes a big difference but;
I have a bipod for my M1A, the kind that is specific to the M1A and clamps onto the gas block on the barrel in front of the fore-end.
I had been attaching it so the legs fold forward but I noticed a photo of one with the device apparantly attached so the legs fold to the rear.  Is this picture I saw the correct way to attach the bipod....or is it merely user preference?
If there's a "right way" is there a reason for it? 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mattitude on May 22, 2013, 10:29:12 am
I've always attached mine with the legs pointing rearward...I believe it was designed that way as the legs are wide enough to fold along the side of the stock.  I have no idea if there is actually a "wrong" way to mount the bipod, but if it fits & functions then I don't think there will be any issues.

OK I have a question.  I'm not entirely sure it makes a big difference but;
I have a bipod for my M1A, the kind that is specific to the M1A and clamps onto the gas block on the barrel in front of the fore-end.
I had been attaching it so the legs fold forward but I noticed a photo of one with the device apparantly attached so the legs fold to the rear.  Is this picture I saw the correct way to attach the bipod....or is it merely user preference?
If there's a "right way" is there a reason for it? 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Nick Cage on May 22, 2013, 11:54:38 am
I'm not familiar with that type of bipod, the reason we see most bipods folded forward is because properly shooting a rifle from a bipod involves loading the bipod, which is putting some weight forward into it, which would collapse a Harris bipod were the legs pointed backwards. Some bipods like the very excellent Atlas Bipod, it doesn't matter they have notches into which the legs lock allowing you to have all sorts of interesting configurations with it.

So it kind of depends on both how your bipod was designed and whether the legs actually lock in their downward position.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mattitude on May 22, 2013, 12:15:59 pm
The GI M14 bipods have legs that lock into position (pushbutton) so it can be properly loaded.  The bipods were meant to be used in full auto.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on June 24, 2013, 07:41:28 am
It's a work in progress

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/CH_M21A5_EBR.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on June 26, 2013, 11:15:59 am
CQB-16 type SEI in a Blackfeather "RS"

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/CQB-16.BF-RS.06.25.13.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on July 02, 2013, 07:03:10 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/American-Independence.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Khorne on July 05, 2013, 09:29:36 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/American-Independence.jpg)
I'll take all three, please.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 09, 2013, 03:05:33 pm
Sharp pointy thing
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac160/The_H2O_MAN/M14-BAYONET.jpg)



I'm not sure where the image originally posted went, but here it is again.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: huey148 on September 10, 2013, 03:47:14 pm
Don't know if this had beseem covered yet.. But had anyone ever used a basset mount on their M1a?  Just ordered one to go with my ATN 5x33lu a friend stuck me with and Hear some good things about them... Anybody have first hand experience?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Penguin on September 10, 2013, 07:11:20 pm
Mine has just a regular old bayonet lug.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 13, 2013, 08:12:04 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/Darkness.jpg)

Windtalker suppressor on a CQB-16 type SEI in a Gen II rogue bullpup conversion kit with an Aimpoint M4 and a BCM Mod 0 grip.
The Gen II kit is both lighter & better than the original kit, but there remain a few minor bugs for me to work out. So far so good though.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Kaso on September 13, 2013, 10:15:50 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/Darkness.jpg)

Windtalker suppressor on a CQB-16 type SEI in a Gen II rogue bullpup conversion kit with an Aimpoint M4 and a BCM Mod 0 grip.
The Gen II kit is both lighter & better than the original kit, but there remain a few minor bugs for me to work out. So far so good though.

Out of curiosity, how much would that setup (suppressor and all) run?



Kaso
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 13, 2013, 10:32:04 pm
Out of curiosity, how much would that setup (suppressor and all) run?



Kaso

The paint chips have made a mockery of my memory :hmm, but I would say it could be duplicated for about $5K, perhaps a little less.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on October 05, 2013, 09:57:45 pm
Three shades of M14

(https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/559477_733248216692369_1233953008_n.jpg)
Title: M14/M1A Accuracy modification for GI synthetic stocks
Post by: H2O MAN on November 18, 2013, 05:07:05 pm
 :clap



STIPR = M-14 Stock Tensioning Installed Picatinny Rail (http://"http://ebrsopmods.proboards.com/thread/3102/stock-tensioning-installed-picatinny-service")

(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/STIPR/STIPR11_zpsee50cb2a.png)

(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/EBRSOPMODS/STIPR/STIPR12_zps5d06b4b0.png)

Contact Duke Nukem ("[email protected]") with any question you may have.

The benefits of STIPR on your USGI synthetic stock:

1. Increased accuracy.
2. Accepts Picatinny accessories.
3. Virtually eliminates fore end flex.
4. STIPR costs less than the SAGE EBR and other similar modern stocks.
5. STIPR eliminates the need for glass bedding to attain NM accuracy.
6. Field stripping your rifle remains easy & unchanged.



Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in this business venture.
Moderators, please move this post if I have posted it in the wrong location. Thank you.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Mini-14 on December 01, 2013, 12:45:08 am
What soft nosed ammo  does  the M14  like?  What's  the  ease  of disassembly?  Can  you  can  clean  the  whole rifle with grease alone?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Penguin on December 01, 2013, 09:06:47 am
Field striping an M1A is cake. I use CLP to clean it and hopes #9 for the bore. Then I lube it with the slipstream grease or lubraplate.

I don't know what soft point bullets it likes though sorry.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on December 01, 2013, 10:48:39 am
What's  the  ease  of disassembly?  Can  you  can  clean  the  whole rifle with grease alone?

Check out the many instructional YouTube videos on Tony Ben's channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/tonyben3 (http://www.youtube.com/user/tonyben3)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ksuguy on December 01, 2013, 02:35:52 pm
It's not much different than taking apart a Garand.   
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: huey148 on December 01, 2013, 02:56:49 pm
Up to a point.... The M14/m1a doesn't have all those parts that fall out that act as the Sheryl lifting mechanism in lieu if a magazine once you remove the opp rod.... Still the m1a manual says only to disassemble sparingly to begin with

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on December 15, 2013, 10:26:52 am
(https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/601189_778011258882731_855238658_n.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: huey148 on December 15, 2013, 11:01:26 am
I see you pic and raise you my own

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on December 15, 2013, 03:31:27 pm
I see you pic and raise you my own


 :thumbup1 Sweet!







I see your pic and raise you

(https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1463896_778011295549394_690949810_n.jpg)










Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: huey148 on December 15, 2013, 04:45:47 pm
Whoa....

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on February 08, 2014, 11:19:59 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/T1.SHG.RRM.M21A5.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Penguin on February 09, 2014, 09:12:43 am
Nice I like it except for the rail at the bottom. Is it a wood stock?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on February 09, 2014, 11:50:53 am
Nice I like it except for the rail at the bottom. Is it a wood stock?

Thanks, the stock is USGI fiberglass.

The bottom rail stiffens the fore end for improved accuracy as well as giving my larger hands a better grip.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Penguin on February 09, 2014, 11:13:36 pm
Thanks, the stock is USGI fiberglass.

The bottom rail stiffens the fore end for improved accuracy as well as giving my larger hands a better grip.

That makes sense. I hadn't thought about it stiffening the front end. I had just thought about the rough griping surface posibly eating up hands.

I like the hand gaurd though with the rail. A nice little red dot that won't add much weight or bulk I think is just about perfect. Can you still use the irons with it on?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on March 01, 2014, 08:34:14 am
54" end-to-end.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1689260_823417464342110_649341394_n.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on March 22, 2014, 12:43:18 pm
27.75" nose > tail

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/Rogue-KISS-1.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on April 23, 2014, 09:29:48 am
With regards to M14/M1A bullpup conversions meeting the NFA overall length (OAL) requirement of 26.0"

The official measurement is taken from the end of the butt stock to the crown of the barrel.
The 16.25" SOCOM barrel renders an OAL of 24.50".

Unless you want to add the 14.0 ounce, 2.0" factory butt stock spacer,
the 16.25" barrel does NOT meet NFA OAL requirements in the Rogue.

Bottom line:

Choosing an M14/M1A with an 18 or 22 inch barrel is the very BEST choice for your bullpup conversion.
 An 18.0" barreled action in the Rogue renders a legal OAL of 26.25" when measured butt stock to crown.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: GeorgeHill on April 23, 2014, 10:30:56 am
Let's see a video review of that Bullpup... Break it down for us - manual of arms - I'm curious.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on April 23, 2014, 03:18:27 pm
Let's see a video review of that Bullpup... Break it down for us - manual of arms - I'm curious.


Here is a video that I shot in 2011.
It shows 'Dino' firing his weapon with my suppressor attached.
He had yet to master mag changes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTKVzut4rRY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTKVzut4rRY)

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Gundoc on April 23, 2014, 05:11:29 pm
Somehow I'm not convinced. Curious, but he had a hard time getting that mag in. I respect the bullpup design but they seem clumsy when it's time to reload.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on April 23, 2014, 05:36:42 pm

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/10247478_855088137841709_3288439518428225422_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10171906_855088144508375_2115268277995805136_n.jpg)

(https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1.0-9/10170975_855088147841708_392079502844540947_n.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on April 23, 2014, 05:39:40 pm
Somehow I'm not convinced. Curious, but he had a hard time getting that mag in. I respect the bullpup design but they seem clumsy when it's time to reload.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk



Dino was trying to insert the mag backwards, and then he got flustered  :panic

He later redeemed himself with videos showing extremely fast mag changes.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on April 26, 2014, 12:03:13 pm
Issues sometimes resolve themselves ...

I sold the bullpup kit this morning, so I put the rifle in a wood stock.

(https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10250232_856402151043641_473918462262156182_n.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on June 07, 2014, 01:29:52 pm
Long-n-Short

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/Long-n-Short.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on July 13, 2014, 09:27:14 am
 :coffee The M14 rifle remains the longest serving rifle used by units of the U.S. Armed forces with the exception of the Springfield M1903 rifle.


My summer project is to put this CQB-16 type SEI back into a Canadian Blackfeather "RS"
This time I will use their new long sight plane top rail (LSP) & high butt stock adapter (HBA)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10513306_903686909648498_9174266156672647037_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10533833_903843389632850_3783598131988941871_n.jpg)

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on July 27, 2014, 04:27:23 pm
My summer project is off to a good start, but I must now wait 3 to 4 weeks for the
new color matching LSP (http://www.athenswater.com/images/LSP-1.jpg) to arrive. 36" Nose to Tail, and a little over 8 lbs. as pictured.
BTW, the Blackfeather RS is now shipping from the US ... BATF paperwork is no longer required.

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/FDE-BF-RS.1.JPG)

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/FDE-BF-RS.2.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ksuguy on July 27, 2014, 05:03:23 pm
Nice,  that's probably my favorite of the unusual M14's you have shown.     
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 10, 2014, 12:28:11 am
Nice,  that's probably my favorite of the unusual M14's you have shown.     

Thank you, I should have it completed later this month.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10687117_942858555731333_5363493368203757345_n.jpg?oh=e67b5724e6ab92e45e1e3507e7f48c1e&oe=54A5365C&__gda__=1418847725_0ae8daf2764c5746654f7bf9a4bb5602)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: sqlbullet on September 10, 2014, 10:38:25 am
So...dumb question.

Does something fill the gap between the front of the pistol grip and the back of the trigger guard? I feel like that space would bug me.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 10, 2014, 04:44:40 pm
So...dumb question.

Does something fill the gap between the front of the pistol grip and the back of the trigger guard? I feel like that space would bug me.

Installing or removing the trigger group can be an issue with some pistol gripped M14 stocks because the front of the grip is too close to the trigger guard. The functional space you see on the Blackfeather makes it much easier to R&R the trigger group.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10629782_942858532398002_1870781016601334853_n.jpg?oh=702fd2d3da3968851352bcfacfbbcc77&oe=548B9A6D&__gda__=1418815665_f105c2e23d7c82e54487d1f53e13ec24)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: sqlbullet on September 10, 2014, 04:53:03 pm
Do-oh!  You would thing a guy with two M1 Garands in his safe would have thought of that! :facepalm
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 12, 2014, 11:03:33 pm
#BlackfeatherRS Video Review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PGxmeyDYvU)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 23, 2014, 01:12:13 am
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10353169_951296614887527_2790409063796035697_n.jpg?oh=f775f3f1843f7ad256ab398ec1e3aa9c&oe=54C03D32&__gda__=1422410328_ec86ada79df2bb0d63a2cfe215cebcc1)

(https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1610817_951191928231329_2544587020895908711_n.jpg?oh=738495da2c02adab25445a46a3fdb851&oe=54BF9C5E)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10418258_951252741558581_114800909944075933_n.jpg?oh=634d20608ac0c9eadaf1a38996ca80e9&oe=54BF447F&__gda__=1418083906_420b902ed358d09fd18fd27600645487)

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Nick Cage on September 23, 2014, 02:54:48 pm
Those stocks look like they kill the ergonomics of the M1A, do they handle well in those set ups or are they as awkward as the look like they could be?

I had a old Springfield scope mount that came with my M1A and for the life of me I could never get a good shooting position with optics on that thing.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 23, 2014, 10:28:25 pm
Those stocks look like they kill the ergonomics of the M1A, do they handle well in those set ups or are they as awkward as the look like they could be?

I had a old Springfield scope mount that came with my M1A and for the life of me I could never get a good shooting position with optics on that thing.

I have been busy improving my optic ergonomics... more better now  :)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10455389_951696731514182_8491705135257847620_n.jpg?oh=9e8ccd728f62453d8d37c546c369a7e3&oe=54C8833F&__gda__=1422672469_22e5e21eb288f98895d8c34db1706ad9)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1507581_951731938177328_3432221480689112697_n.jpg?oh=f247afc060e3fe638785281f43ea2e66&oe=548FC70A&__gda__=1422460471_852eef5a30356a83fdc7b76b366e049a)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Nick Cage on September 24, 2014, 01:52:52 am
That does look a lot better.

The grip trigger assembly still looks like it needs something.

Anyhow that's a nice looking rig.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on October 04, 2014, 10:12:01 am
That does look a lot better.

The grip trigger assembly still looks like it needs something.

Anyhow that's a nice looking rig.

Thanks.

I am working on a gap filler, updates to follow.


Here is how I currently have my M14s set up.

Blackfeather CQB-16 / M21 A5 Crazy Horse EBR

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/Rocktober-M14s.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mattitude on October 04, 2014, 11:51:19 am
Yea I understand why that huge gap is there between the TG and pistol grip but would look a little better if that little tab that would normally fill the gap on an AR would be trimmed off since it wouldn't be needed.  It does look like a pretty long trigger reach as well especially compared to the other one you have in the photo.  I'd be interested on how it does shoot and if it does improve the accuracy any.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on October 05, 2014, 09:21:32 am
Yea I understand why that huge gap is there between the TG and pistol grip but would look a little better if that little tab that would normally fill the gap on an AR would be trimmed off since it wouldn't be needed.  It does look like a pretty long trigger reach as well especially compared to the other one you have in the photo.  I'd be interested on how it does shoot and if it does improve the accuracy any.
I developed a gap filler last night that works very well - I'll share later.
The reach to the trigger (back of the grip to trigger pad) is identical.
Tony Ben has posted a range review on the Blackfeather he has... WOW, WOW WOW!!! (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_6/432536_Preliminary_M14_CA_Blackfeather_range_report__Eight_consecutive_5_shot_groups_under_1_5.html)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1653729_958420607508461_7734160294576785786_n.jpg?oh=684f8fdc391524ec37764a34fa3d173f&oe=54CDD4B6&__gda__=1422906743_2c600d6f071f5fad164288f7abb28433)
Title: CQB-16 / Blackfeather RS
Post by: H2O MAN on January 03, 2015, 05:55:32 pm
I reconfigured to a run & gun RDS set up a couple weeks ago, and I figured out how to run B.U.I.S. on the Blackfeather fitted with a Scout Hand Guard. The MBUS co-witness though the EXPS3-0 (Lower 3rd). The rifle, loaded with 20 in the mag, weighs a little less than 12 lbs. as pictured below.

(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10155545_10153008192484776_3212290568984805482_n.jpg?oh=615975011633560e7a741b5a0a99a62c&oe=552909D4)

(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/l/t1.0-9/1907962_10153008192494776_7757532873037170410_n.jpg?oh=034fdff41b4c398b5b4c4ac95943ddf1&oe=5535CBB4)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10888647_10153008192299776_4898446512268931266_n.jpg?oh=8511bea4e14af672250013fd222b3a9a&oe=55271A8F&__gda__=1430703066_e00b9e5df6d21d08f77d70fc786f31b5)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: mattitude on January 03, 2015, 07:47:20 pm
That's a pretty cool brass deflector!  Who makes it & does it deform/damage the brass?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on January 04, 2015, 08:12:03 am
That's a pretty cool brass deflector!  Who makes it & does it deform/damage the brass?

It's not a brass deflector, it's a gas deflector.

USGI M3 Breech Cover. I use it when the rifle is suppressed.

It does not harm ejected brass  :)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Splodge Of Doom on January 04, 2015, 01:10:43 pm
I love the look of these rifles - definitely on The List for when I make it to the States.

I assume the gap between the grip and the trigger is due to using a grip meant for an AR?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on January 04, 2015, 02:34:32 pm
I love the look of these rifles - definitely on The List for when I make it to the States.

I assume the gap between the grip and the trigger is due to using a grip meant for an AR?

You are correct.

I've come up with my own gap filler, and I'll be testing it out soon.
Feel free to contact me when you return - stay safe.


Please note that the B.U.I.S. experiment posted above, was just that.
I only wanted to test my theory to see if it would work or not.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ksuguy on January 04, 2015, 05:24:19 pm
I love the look of these rifles - definitely on The List for when I make it to the States.

I assume the gap between the grip and the trigger is due to using a grip meant for an AR?

Made any progress on making the move?  I know you were trying to look for something when you finished up your degree.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on January 08, 2015, 08:14:49 am
(https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10404144_10153028289864776_4360944744056000685_n.jpg?oh=072b89f386b226e0a08316fbcba39943&oe=552DBF4D)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on January 19, 2015, 08:35:30 am
(https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10929074_1029959600354561_5113142012985286860_n.jpg?oh=09e932ba59261fa7c4bbc147dc11ba8f&oe=555CA9D0)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on March 15, 2015, 10:29:53 am
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10376190_10153180487244776_5671110968676049319_n.jpg?oh=46bd17a547d9c232e9c3785c6674931f&oe=5584E2EA&__gda__=1437770492_7e31eed9336b1492e726eab0581af2af)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: GeorgeHill on March 15, 2015, 11:29:25 am
I'm digging the new synth-stocked M1A's Springfield is putting out.  Simple, light, and more affordable. 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: TommyGunn on March 15, 2015, 11:20:15 pm
I'm digging the new synth-stocked M1A's Springfield is putting out.  Simple, light, and more affordable. 


Is that what H2O Man's posts show?  All I get is little red Xs in the box and can't even get anything when I left click and click on "show picture."

I have an M1A with that synthetic stock.  Yes, they are nice.  Sorta really like wood as it's more attractive but I bought it because I think it's less likely to get dinged up and even if it does, I would not be so upset about it as I would if it was a pretty wood stock.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on March 16, 2015, 04:34:49 pm
Is that what H2O Man's posts show?

I'm sorry about you seeing nothing but a red X.

The last image I posted is my CQB-16 in a super light weight Chinese Chu wood stock.

The others are mostly these two rifle in different configurations.

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/M14-Modernized.JPG)

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: GeorgeHill on March 17, 2015, 10:27:21 pm
I see pictures.  You are probably getting blocked by a firewall.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: huey148 on March 18, 2015, 07:59:29 am
Had to sell mine recently due to a pending divorce. .. tearing up looking at these pics now

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on March 19, 2015, 10:53:49 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/LSP-RS.M4.JPG)

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/LSP-RS.1-6-HD.JPG)

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/LSP-RS.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on April 25, 2015, 10:43:16 pm
(https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10857886_10153283829039776_805904550205248102_n.jpg?oh=21b0aaf18a7ee02e7542d9827e7fb2df&oe=55E50D7F)

My 1st attempt at finishing a stock... learning as I go.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Langenator on April 28, 2015, 05:14:01 pm
Just came across this article yesterday, although it is dated back in January: http://looserounds.com/2015/01/30/the-m14-not-much-for-fighting-a-case-against-the-m14-legend/ (http://looserounds.com/2015/01/30/the-m14-not-much-for-fighting-a-case-against-the-m14-legend/)

Anyone else see this?  Thoughts?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on April 29, 2015, 08:44:28 am
Langenator, that is just one of 2 or 3 opinion pieces published by M14 hating hacks.

I wouldn't suggest that you waste much time on it.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Mamba1-0 on April 29, 2015, 11:47:46 am
Just came across this article yesterday, although it is dated back in January: http://looserounds.com/2015/01/30/the-m14-not-much-for-fighting-a-case-against-the-m14-legend/ (http://looserounds.com/2015/01/30/the-m14-not-much-for-fighting-a-case-against-the-m14-legend/)

Anyone else see this?  Thoughts?


Well, I don't know. That article may be true and accurate...or not.  :whistle

What I do know is that the M-14 that I used for a bit over three years in Viet Nam served me well; and did all that was expected of it with minimal parts replacement and downtime.
Based on that, I wouldn't feel under-gunned or badly provided for if I had to use an M-14 - type to defend my life again. :coffee
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on April 29, 2015, 11:54:04 am
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/CQB-16.CSASS.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 07, 2015, 10:40:38 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/BirchTiger-E2-SHG.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Mikee5star on May 08, 2015, 04:51:54 pm
looking at your first picture I was worried it would be horribly blotchy.  But I really like the way it came out. 

I dislike stain jobs that hide the variations in wood.  If the finish is uniform, then it just as well be plastic IMHO.

Good Job   :thumbup1
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 09, 2015, 06:56:26 am
looking at your first picture I was worried it would be horribly blotchy.  But I really like the way it came out. 

I dislike stain jobs that hide the variations in wood.  If the finish is uniform, then it just as well be plastic IMHO.

Good Job   :thumbup1

Thank you.

I was a little worried myself, because this was my 1st attempt at finishing wood furniture of any kind.

My goal was to reveal all of the natural beauty as well as the 'imperfections'.

Nothing but clear light Tung oil, no stain of any kind  :)

(https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11196361_10153310178119776_1679685711902991783_n.jpg?oh=2553647a4004e19a7c1d95d893ce632f&oe=55D8C0C7)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Penguin on May 09, 2015, 06:39:47 pm
Just came across this article yesterday, although it is dated back in January: http://looserounds.com/2015/01/30/the-m14-not-much-for-fighting-a-case-against-the-m14-legend/ (http://looserounds.com/2015/01/30/the-m14-not-much-for-fighting-a-case-against-the-m14-legend/)

Anyone else see this?  Thoughts?

I hadn't seen it before I do have a couple of thoughts on it though after reading it. One the person who wrote it doesn't like the M-14 for what ever reason.

The main argument against it seems to be the cost of manufacture and accurizing the rifle. Well no crap the M-14 costs more to make than an M-16. I don’t see what the surprise is there. Just because the M-14 costs a lot to make doesn’t make it a bad rifle. Yeah it ended up costing more than was originally anticipated because they couldn’t use the M1 machines and tooling like they were hoping to.

Next off the author goes off about how it didn’t meet its accuracy requirements. I am un aware of this problem at least in mass. It is has been my experience that the M1A the semi-auto version is a fine weapon with good accuracy. Granted a semi-auto M1A isn’t an M-14 how ever it is fairly close. It has been my experience that they have better accuracy than the L1A1 or at least the civilian ones I have shot. Again I haven’t shoot the military version but I would think it is close as well. This would have been the rifle that the M-14 was up against at the time.

Further more it seems like half the article is about the M21 which is decidedly not a rack grade standard issue M-14. It is like comparing apples to oranges. Yeah both are fairly round and grow on a tree but there are a lot of differences too. The conclusion seems to be because the M21 was replaced by the M24 it was a failure. I wouldn’t say so. The Army could have adopted a Remington 700 based sniper rifle long before they did. It isn’t like that type of rifle didn’t come around until later. The fact that they didn’t indicates to me that they were pretty happy with the M21 for quite some time. The M21 has had some major success in its history as a sniper rifle. Again criticizing the M21 as not being as accurate and more expensive than the M24 is like comparing apples to oranges again. Much like the M-14 sucks because the M-16 is cheaper to make and replaced it so therefore the M-16 must be better argument that doesn’t mean the M21 sucks.

It would seem to me that generally bolt action guns are more accurate than you average semi-auto. As well they are often cheaper to produce especially when talking about match grade examples . As well the author tries to make a big deal out of the fact that over the years the army has been constantly upgrading the M21 and tweaking it. That doesn’t necessarily mean it is bad or something is wrong with it. It is worth considering several things. First the M21 was not the standard issue rifle. Two it would be foolish not to incorporate improvements in technology and lessons learned about it into the rifle. How many improvements were made to the basic standard issue M-16 and later M4? I would bet more than were made to the M-14. Again this doesn’t mean that the M21 sucks, it has some features going for it that the M24 doesn’t. Chief among those its semi-auto operation. The Army apparently decided that accuracy was a higher priority than volume of fire. As well the supply of new rifles to make M21s was limited as the M-14 had officially been retired. I don’t think this means that the M21 was a bad rifle.

Further more from the guys I have talked to who served in Vietnam no one complained about the M-14. I do know some guys though who had trouble with the M-16 and went back to the M-14 though. Though it has been my observation of talking to more recent vets the problems with the M-16 serries of rifles has been solved as I haven’t heard much bad about that rifle now and plenty of good things especially in regards to the M4.

I think it is a case of times change and technology improves. It would seem that the M-16 series of rifles has passed the M-14 for a number of reasons. If I had my choice though I would still take an M-14 over an M-16 any day of the week. Perhaps it is because I have trained with my M1A more than I have and AR-15. Or perhaps it is because despite all of the improvements to the M-16 series of rifles there is no disputing the fact that the M-14 hits harder at longer ranges than the M-16. As well I just like the M1A better than the AR. I don’t know why but I just have never really gotten into ARs.

If you really want ot knock the M-14 this is the way to do it,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGRCRJo9-mM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGRCRJo9-mM)
Well there you have it my two cents.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 09, 2015, 10:25:07 pm
Looking back 3 whole years http://www.rifleshootermag.com/rifles/the-rise-fall-and-rise-of-the-m14/ (http://www.rifleshootermag.com/rifles/the-rise-fall-and-rise-of-the-m14/)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: GeorgeHill on May 13, 2015, 05:53:32 pm
I do still want a SOCOM 16.  It's a handier version of a classic.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Langenator on May 14, 2015, 10:26:02 am
Here's my big question: why did pretty much nobody buy the M14 except the United States, while the rifle the M14 beat in the Army trials, the FAL, was purchased by tons of countries?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: huey148 on May 14, 2015, 05:00:24 pm
IMHO, they saw the M14 fir what it was. ..a superbly manufactured firearm based on (then) current firearms design philosophy and the FAL was seen as the future.   The US allay had a heavy wood semi auto (M1) so the M14 was a small evolutionary step in thinking.   The Europeans were mostly replacing 50+ year old bolt designs and we're not so bored down in a small leap.   Plus it was made in Europe by a NATO ally

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Penguin on May 14, 2015, 08:26:06 pm
IMHO, they saw the M14 fir what it was. ..a superbly manufactured firearm based on (then) current firearms design philosophy and the FAL was seen as the future.   The US allay had a heavy wood semi auto (M1) so the M14 was a small evolutionary step in thinking.   The Europeans were mostly replacing 50+ year old bolt designs and we're not so bored down in a small leap.   Plus it was made in Europe by a NATO ally

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk



I suspect that you a quite right in that. As well FN was marketing there new FAL very heavily. I don't think the ordnance department was marketing the M-14 to any one. I also think there was the perception that the FN FAL was going to be the NATO standard while the M-14 was the American’s pet project. The US was also giving off the impression that they were going to go with the FAL as long as NATO went with the 7.62x51 round.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Langenator on May 14, 2015, 09:24:27 pm
My understanding is that until the arctic testing, the FAL was actually beating the M14, and by a not insubstantial margin.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Penguin on May 14, 2015, 10:01:18 pm
My understanding is that until the arctic testing, the FAL was actually beating the M14, and by a not insubstantial margin.

That has been my understanding as well. To beat the FAL on that they had to redesign the gun because it didn't do so great the first time around.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 15, 2015, 08:34:31 am
Here's my big question: why did pretty much nobody buy the M14 except the United States, while the rifle the M14 beat in the Army trials, the FAL, was purchased by tons of countries?

I believe the FAL was much easier to produce.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: gitt1 on May 17, 2015, 08:53:22 am
I've heard it was about the money. A country could tool-up and build the FAL for themselves without big royalties or fee.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Langenator on May 17, 2015, 09:08:57 am
I'd guess the same applied to the G3 as well, with the added bonus of a stamped sheet metal receiver.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: strangelittleman on May 17, 2015, 12:03:12 pm
  You're right. I'd agree that the use of stampings made the G3 much easier and perhaps less expensive to produce. The G3 was made in probably two dozen countries or more, from Norway, Sweden, Greece, Portugal and Turkey, to Pakistan & Iran. Quite a wide cross section of economies and manufacturing capabilities.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ksuguy on May 17, 2015, 03:09:43 pm
The FAL is probably a better battle rifle (I own both).   The main reason it wasn't adopted by the US was because it wasn't invented here. 


That being said, there are a few areas where the M14/M1A has some slight advantages.

1.  Better iron sights.  The click adjustable windage and elevation sights are awesome.  Just like they were on the M1 Garand.   The FAL does have some adjustment for elevation,  and it works fairly well.  However, it can only adjust for range in 100 meter increments and doesn't have the fine adjustment the M14 does.  Windage adjustment requires a screwdriver and is not nearly as precise.  Not something you can easily do when you are in the middle of shooting like you can with the M14.   I'm sure this could be added to the FAL with a little engineering work.  I have seen some home gunsmithing hacks where people have grafted on M1/M14 style rear sights onto an FAL lower.   With some small design changes,  this could have been added to the FAL as a factory option.   

2. Better ergonomics for *some* people.   If you prefer more traditional style rifles,  the M14 is easier to adapt to.   However,  this advantage is small and most people probably wouldn't even notice it.

3.  Seems slightly easier to use a sling.   Slings work ok with both rifles as long as they have a front swivel installed.  However, it seems to work just a tiny bit better with the M14. Of course this might just be subjective on my part.   


The FAL has several areas where it has some advantages.
1.  Easier to mount optics.    Replace the dustcover and you are good to go.
2.  Magazine changes are easier.   Both rifles uses 20 round magazines that rock in,  but it just seems like with the FAL it is easier to get them in properly.
3.  More modular means it is easier to customize the furniture without replacing the entire stock system.    It's still not as customizable as an AR,  but then not much is.
4.  Easier to clean.  I always hate having to clean from the muzzle end.  With the FAL, you can just unlatch the lower and upper and run a cleaning rod in from the back.   
5.  Looks cooler.   Yes,  I know that's a dumb reason.   :rotfl  Also, I'm talking about the base models.  Not H20 Man's awesome custom setups.   



Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Langenator on May 17, 2015, 05:20:19 pm
Sounds oddly similar to an observation that was made during WWI about the Enfield and the Springfield: the U.S. had the better target rifle, while the Brits had the better battle rifle.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Penguin on May 18, 2015, 10:53:06 pm
Based on my experience between my L1A1 and my M1A I would make the following observations. Both rifles are good and fairly comparable. I think which you think is better will come down to your personal preferences.

It has been my experience that the M1A is more accurate. Much more. This is probably mostly due to its vastly superior iron sights. Iron sights just don’t get much better. I will say though on the side of the L1A1 the sights are faster to pick up due to the larger size of the hole in the rear sight. I think that larger size though hurts the accuracy a bit. Now if I could find a hyth rear sight I would be in business. That being said like ksuguy said someone could probably improve the FAL style sight. I don’t think it would be hard to replace with some version of the M16 rear sight. Bottom line I think the L1A1 sights are faster at close quarters while the M1A without a doubt has the edge when it comes to long range shooting. As well I think the M1A is easier to shoot with a sling.

Mag changes are about the same. Both are the rock in kind with a paddle style mag release between the rear of the mag and the trigger guard. I think the one on the M1A is easier to use because there is more room between the mag release and the trigger guard. As well with the extra distance if you want you can knock out your old M1A mag with the new one in hand like many guys do with AK. I can’t do that with my L1A1 due to that lack of space.

I think the safety on the L1A1 is much better though. While the one on the M1A works I just don’t like having to stick my finger in the trigger guard just to release the safety.

Both charging handles are easy to use. It comes down more to which side do you prefer it to be on? If you like the right side the M1A has it going for you if you like the left the L1A1 scores points. Perhaps taking some of those points though would be the fact that the charging handle folds up against the receiver. This is another little step that you have to do to get the rifle back into action. For me it isn’t a big deal I am practised at it. On the other hand the fact that it folds down means that handle is one less thing to poke you in the back with the rifle slung. I do like that.

One other thing to keep in mind is the L1A1 doesn’t have a last shot bolt hold open. I would give the edge to the M1A that does here. In theory that makes mag changes faster with the M1A, especially if you consider that you will probably have to unfold the charging handle on the L1A1 too. As well there is the mag changes themselves which I think the M1A has a slight edge in. The big advantage though is realizing just that little bit sooner that it is time to reload. On the other hand if you are more worried about getting dirt into the action between mag changes you may want to go with the L1A1. It is worth noting here though that the C1 has a last shot bolt hold open.

Another nice thing on the M1A is it has a stripper clip guide so you can top off a mag in the gun with stripper clips if you want, at least if you don’t have a mount for optics. I don’t know how useful this is in real life but I think it is nice to have the option. It is worth noting that the C1 has that feature as well.

I suppose the stripper clip feature is a lot like the adjustable gas system. How often do you need it? But it is nice to have. In theory the M1A doesn’t even need it so that is a plus. On the other hand it can’t hurt to have the option unless you lose parts while field stripping the riffle in the field.

One feature though that I don’t think is nice to have even if you don’t need or use it is the stupid carrying handle on the L1A1. I think the Kiwis were right to take theirs off. That is what I have done with mine. It is just useless extra weight that gets caught on your web gear with you rifle slung and who knows what else.

Between the two I think it is easier to diagnose and clear a jam with the M1A than the L1A1 because the receiver is much more exposed. On the other hand because of that it makes it easier for crud to get in there in the first place.

Field stripping is about a wash. Both are easy. I think getting the basic field stripping done may be a hair easier with the L1A1 but the fact that you need a special tool if you need to mess with the return spring on the L1A1 makes that a bit of a wash.

The L1A1 has a several things going for it though.

In my mind the main one is it is much more modular. You can change out different stocks pretty easy including for stock length. This is one of the things I like the most about the L1A1. I think the standard stock on the M1A is too long. I like to go with the short length butt stock on my L1A1. This is a personal preference thing though, but with the L1A1 you have a couple of options. Nowadays though that is changing with the M1A. The only problem here though is most of the new M1A stocks cost and arm and a leg and add some weight to an already heavy gun.

If the M1A has a real weakness I think it would be its stock. There is too much play between it and the receiver. You don’t have this problem with the L1A1. This is why to get the best accuracy out of an M1A you typically glass bed it. But that brings up a different set of problems. Despite this setback it has been my experience that the M1A is still more accurate.

The L1A1 is easier to mount optics on though it isn’t hard to do it on an M1A, just a little more temperamental.

I think the L1A1 balances better. With the M1A I think the balance point is right about where the mag is. Which is a bit annoying as I want to put my forward hand right where the magazine is. With the L1A1 I put my hand right in front of the mag and it feels comfortable there. Again this is a personal preference thing. If you are running with you support hand all the way forward as seems so popular these days that probably won’t matter and either gun will work well.

As well I feel that the L1A1 is just a more comfortable rifle to lug around all day. Again a personal preference thing.

Bottom line I would feel comfortable with either if that is what I had to take to battle. In fact if the crap really hit the fan I am quite sure I would grab either one. I think the L1A1 has a bit of an edge at close range while the M1A has a definite edge at longer ranges. In confined spaces though like a vehicle either one is going to suck because they are so long. That and the weight are the only real drawbacks to either system. If you can live with the length and weight both will probably serve you well.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ksuguy on May 19, 2015, 01:36:17 am
One other thing to keep in mind is the L1A1 doesn’t have a last shot bolt hold open.

This is easy to add.   The metric guns already have it, but if you want to add it to an L1A1 all you need to do is stick a small pin into the bolt release.    You can actually use a cut bit of wire hanger too,  it's the right diameter.   

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Raptor on May 19, 2015, 01:55:26 am
I don’t think it would be hard to replace with some version of the M16 rear sight.

DSA does make a receiver that has an M16A2 type sight, though they don't list the site assembly itself separate from the receiver on their website. They do have a "tactical" windage-adjustable rear sight for the folding stock 'paratrooper' models, though it seems to lack elevation adjustment, and I'm not sure if it would fit on standard fixed-stock receivers.

Having handled (but not yet shot) both, I think I would chose the FAL over the M1A, because the FAL balances better and feels more ergonomic, though I think I would replace the stock with an aftermarket/custom one to shorted up the LOP a little bit.

Mods, I think it might be a good idea to split this discussion off into a separate FAL thread.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 19, 2015, 02:40:20 pm
It's a good rifle with a good history, but I'm not a fan of the FAL. It just doesn't feel right in my hands.

My general purpose semi-auto .30 caliber rifles of choice are the civilian M14 clones, including the M1A.
The M14 is well supported with plenty of variants, plenty of options, plenty of aftermarket support,
plenty of new mil-spec parts & mags. You can set your M14/M1A up to meet your specific wants/needs.

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/TE2-Slung-1.JPG) (http://www.athenswater.com/images/TE2-Slung.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Kaso on May 20, 2015, 01:24:08 am
A short M1A is on my 'wish I could justify' list.  A shorter one should balance better, and in my area the possible and legal shots are relatively short.

H2O Man: You seem to be the expert on all things related to the platform...  Would you favor the 18" or the 16" models from Springfield, and why?



Kaso
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 20, 2015, 07:55:45 am
A short M1A is on my 'wish I could justify' list.  A shorter one should balance better, and in my area the possible and legal shots are relatively short.

H2O Man: You seem to be the expert on all things related to the platform...  Would you favor the 18" or the 16" models from Springfield, and why?



Kaso

I really like my CQB-16, but the 18" is the better choice. It generates a little more muzzle velocity than the 16.25", and it's much easier to change the muzzle device & sights on the 18".
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Mikee5star on May 20, 2015, 12:47:42 pm
A short M1A is on my 'wish I could justify' list.  A shorter one should balance better, and in my area the possible and legal shots are relatively short.

H2O Man: You seem to be the expert on all things related to the platform...  Would you favor the 18" or the 16" models from Springfield, and why?

Kaso

"wish I could justify"  means sneak it in to the budget.  I wish I had the self discipline to save up for one.  I get close and then I see a pistol, or two I just have to have ::).

H20 man: where did you find the wood pistol grip stock?  I want a similar setup.  Black Rifle in disguise.  That has always been one of the benefits of the M1A, IMHO.  Not to mention, I love wood, and wood and blue steel has always said class in my mind. 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 20, 2015, 03:11:58 pm
"wish I could justify"  means sneak it in to the budget.  I wish I had the self discipline to save up for one.  I get close and then I see a pistol, or two I just have to have ::).

H20 man: where did you find the wood pistol grip stock?  I want a similar setup.  Black Rifle in disguise.  That has always been one of the benefits of the M1A, IMHO.  Not to mention, I love wood, and wood and blue steel has always said class in my mind. 

TreelineM14 has a few, and there is a GB seller re-selling some of the fancy tiger stripe E2s from the same batch of stocks.
http://www.treelinem14.com/Collectors-Grade-USGI_c15.htm (http://www.treelinem14.com/Collectors-Grade-USGI_c15.htm)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Kaso on May 20, 2015, 05:44:54 pm
"wish I could justify"  means sneak it in to the budget. 
Haha, no, it means that the rifle has no place among my 'working' guns.  If I could find even one good reason to purchase one, I would sell off some guns I dislike to fund it.



Kaso
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Mikee5star on May 20, 2015, 06:40:23 pm
TreelineM14 has a few, and there is a GB seller re-selling some of the fancy tiger stripe E2s from the same batch of stocks.
http://www.treelinem14.com/Collectors-Grade-USGI_c15.htm (http://www.treelinem14.com/Collectors-Grade-USGI_c15.htm)

Thanks for the link.  Now to wait and see if the Socom 16 is still for sale after the move.  And if there is any money left.

Haha, no, it means that the rifle has no place among my 'working' guns.  If I could find even one good reason to purchase one, I would sell off some guns I dislike to fund it.

Kaso

I have no "working" guns.  All of them have a purpose, even if it is just putting a smile on my face when I hold it.  I have favorites, but I don't dislike any guns.  I even shot my wife's Ruger P-90 the other day and while it is not one of my favorites, I am no longer thinking about using it as a boat anchor.  That said there a guns I would not buy cause I could not justify them, I can't think of an example under $2500 at the moment though.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 28, 2015, 09:08:48 am
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/SHG-CQB-16-M4.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Kaso on May 28, 2015, 12:13:32 pm
What am I supposed to be taking away here? :scrutiny



Kaso
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ksuguy on May 28, 2015, 01:03:53 pm
I think he was just showing the rail system.   I would really like to get one of those for my M1A.  It originally came with a Springfield Armory mount,  but I decided I didn't really like that with the big burris XTR I had.   Sold the mount to someone here and I will probably put the XTR on a nice bolt gun eventually.    Been using the M1A with irons,  but I think I might like to go with a full length rail system and a smaller 2-6x scope.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 28, 2015, 01:13:56 pm
What am I supposed to be taking away here? :scrutiny

Kaso

I think he was just showing the rail system.   

Correct.

It's a clear picture of the SHG installed on a standard weight barrel.
The Scout Hand Guard is light (6.5 oz.), and it runs cool. The SHG does
not interfere with the iron sights, and it allows the user to co-witness
said iron sights through an RDS that sits low. Aimpoint H & T-1s work well.

 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Kaso on May 28, 2015, 01:26:53 pm
Very well.  I thought I was being shown pieces of a rifle.



Kaso
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 28, 2015, 02:14:53 pm
Very well.  I thought I was being shown pieces of a rifle.



Kaso

You are being shown pieces of a rifle.

All that's missing is the FCG, and the stock.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Kaso on May 28, 2015, 03:54:11 pm
You are being shown pieces of a rifle.
Yes, I did figure that out eventually. :P  The picture of a partial rifle with no explanation threw me off.

Show and tell is half 'tell.' ;)



Kaso
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Langenator on June 01, 2015, 04:04:02 pm
I was digging around in my big moving box of firearm magazines.

I realized I have 22 brand-new, never used, Checkmate M-14 mags.

I haven't taken the M-14 (mine's a Federal Ordnance, not a Springer, and they actually call it M-14, but it lacks the giggle switch) to the range in probably a decade.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on July 22, 2015, 11:58:09 am
Weight reduction was my #1 motivation for this stock swap.

Before:
(https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11695039_10153495101174776_1521569798932000712_n.jpg?oh=f028354e08ee006eac4624f6e2f00e78&oe=5611C6F5)

After:
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/M21-A5.BF-RS.1.JPG)

The total weight of my M21 A5 DMR / SASS is now a little more than three (3) pounds lighter than before.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on July 23, 2015, 12:06:59 am
Nice.  I imagine its a bit more muzzle heavy now than before, no?   
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on July 23, 2015, 08:13:05 am
It may be slightly more muzzle heavy than before, but not by much.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on August 04, 2015, 02:55:30 pm
Just came across this article yesterday, although it is dated back in January: http://looserounds.com/2015/01/30/the-m14-not-much-for-fighting-a-case-against-the-m14-legend/ (http://looserounds.com/2015/01/30/the-m14-not-much-for-fighting-a-case-against-the-m14-legend/)

Anyone else see this?  Thoughts?

About the hit piece blog Shawn over at LooserRounds published on the M14 earlier this year.

One thing Shawn and his fans failed to take into account, or chose to ignore is that prior to late 2010, everybody using the M14 from Grenada, then Desert Storm and beyond was winging it & doing the best they could with what they could find. SNAFU.

Not until the well funded M14EBR-RI modernization program did things really change for the better... There is no question that the thousands of M14EBR-RI, and smaller numbers of Smith Enterprise "Crazy Horse" rifles are a big real world success. Reliable, Accurate, and Easily Maintained.

-H2O
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: m1911a1lover on August 26, 2015, 02:12:50 pm
So i am finally going to be getting my 1st M14/M1A. Unfortunately its on a budget and since i have left Vermont and moved back to Canada for Nursing school. I'm a little on the low side of budget for the moment. So ill be getting an Norinco M305 M14S, the upside is that with the US to Ca $ exchange rate i''l be making out like a bandit. Yes The Springfield models are available but they are 2000+$ price range. Si its the Norinco for me as of right now. 699$ isnt bad. Plus my exchange rate and employee discount at work.

So whats everyone's thoughts on the Norinco M14S.....
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on August 28, 2015, 08:14:43 am


So whats everyone's thoughts on the Norinco M14S.....

These guys know & love them. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/876299-M14-ca-Official-Picture-Thread (http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/876299-M14-ca-Official-Picture-Thread)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 27, 2015, 08:54:36 am
Not one of mine, but it sure looks nice.

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12038257_1022948311078318_1444766612555920175_n.jpg?oh=7517392933b22c77829081aa44c5570e&oe=56A25F4F)

Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on October 20, 2015, 11:33:31 am
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/CH.BF-RS.WT.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: MTK20 on October 20, 2015, 12:48:22 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/CH.BF-RS.WT.JPG)

 :thumbup1
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on November 06, 2015, 10:17:54 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/5-14s..JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on November 06, 2015, 10:26:22 pm
Ahh yes, a little something for everyone.   :cool
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: GeorgeHill on November 07, 2015, 10:48:29 am
Not one of mine, but it sure looks nice.

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12038257_1022948311078318_1444766612555920175_n.jpg?oh=7517392933b22c77829081aa44c5570e&oe=56A25F4F)


Oh I like that one.  Not just the photography of it, but the more simplistic approach the owner took to enhancements. 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on December 06, 2015, 09:36:40 am
HERA SFU

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/BF-RS.SFUa.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on March 06, 2016, 09:52:46 am
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/CQB16-BF-RS-03.05.16.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 28, 2016, 01:48:48 pm
Blackfeather "RS"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xIjreYfo3U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xIjreYfo3U)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on July 31, 2016, 09:01:52 am
I'm just waiting for the Mossberg butt stock adapter (MBSA) to start shipping.

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/MBSA-M21-A5.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 14, 2016, 08:09:57 am
New MBSA installed on BF-RS
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on September 15, 2016, 02:09:12 am
Nice.   :cool
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: GeorgeHill on September 15, 2016, 08:35:52 am
Yes.  Very nice indeed.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Kaso on September 15, 2016, 08:40:34 am
Of all of the Battle Rifle options out there: HK/PTR, AR-10s of all manufacturers, FAL, SCAR, RFB, etc. - the only one that gives me any desire to own is the M1A.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: sarge712 on September 15, 2016, 04:20:20 pm
Of all of the Battle Rifle options out there: HK/PTR, AR-10s of all manufacturers, FAL, SCAR, RFB, etc. - the only one that gives me any desire to own is the M1A.

Same here
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Grant on September 25, 2016, 02:38:39 pm
  Well just was sighting in my M14S today and figured I'd check out "the same ol' problem".

  My M14S LOVES....168 HP ammo.  From a good rest it'll put the American Eagle M1A ammo into 1" groups at 100 yards and 168 Federal Gold Medal Match into .75".

  But it HATES......147/150 grain ball ammo.   I've tried XM80, DAG, South African, no change, all grouped 8-10".   Well today I figured I'd try out ZQI just for the heckuvit, don't have anything to lose.    Did the same, maybe a shade worse.

   Just boggles my mind.   It's well headspaced, has a NOS USGI bolt that was installed by Tim at Warbirdscustomguns.   It was WAY out of headspace before the new bolt was installed, swallowed a 7.62 Nato nogo gauge.     

   I just thought y'all may be interested.   Like I said, even with a warm barrel, after 15-20 shots she still groups very well, but cold/whatever will NOT shoot 150 grain ammo.

  Below group was prone @100 yards unsupported, however it was not me, the green group is 168 American Eagle and the red is 147 ZQI.   The one far-right green was a called pull-off by me.

Edit P.S.  Took off my Bushnell Elite fixed 10X scope and replaced it with a 3-9X Burris compact. Only 10" long and sure lightens up and trims up the gun.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 25, 2016, 03:39:02 pm
Your China girl has expensive taste, feed her well.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Kaso on September 25, 2016, 04:48:07 pm
Your China girl has expensive taste, feed her well.
Eh, Grant has a history of attracting high maintenance and difficult ladies.  He should do fine. ;)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Grant on September 25, 2016, 06:36:46 pm
Eh, Grant has a history of attracting high maintenance and difficult ladies.  He should do fine. ;)

Smartass  :neener

  I'm just curious as to why.  I can see it shooting some worse, or even a LOT worse.  But barely keeping them on a box?  that's almost unbelievable to me. 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: cpaspr on September 26, 2016, 02:05:51 am
Smartass  :neener

  I'm just curious as to why.  I can see it shooting some worse, or even a LOT worse.  But barely keeping them on a box?  that's almost unbelievable to me. 

I'm just guessing here, but if it likes 168s but doesn't 147/150s, I'd say your twist rate is too fast for the lighter bullets.  I think.  I may be backwards on that.  My .30-06 has a 1 in 12 twist, and will put 3 150s under a quarter at 100 yards and 3 165s under a nickel.  180s?  2" is the best I could get.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 26, 2016, 08:20:12 am
Rate of twist:
 
Standard M14 1:12
Standard M1A 1:11

My SEI builds have 1:10 barrels that shoot 147 gr Port surplus into tiny little groups.

This one has a chrome lined Winchester barrel with a 1:12 ROT.
I'm waiting for a Blackfeather op rod guide to arrive so I can finish the installation and see how it shoots.

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/H2OsMBSA.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Grant on September 26, 2016, 08:23:16 am
  The twist rate on the M14S is supposed to be 1:12 like the original M14.     :shrug  168 should be the upper edge of what it shoots well.

   I'm not real worried, I wanted an accurate tackdriver, something not every M1A/M14 is so as long as it shoots super well with the good ammo I'll stock up on a bunch of 168 ammo for a TON of brass then stockpile 168 bullets.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Mikee5star on September 26, 2016, 11:00:13 am
Have you tried any 180 gr bullets through it? If it likes heavier bullet weights they might be an option.  But you do lose some range, as the ones I have used do not have great shape like 168gr.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on September 27, 2016, 06:37:56 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/evolution-m14ebr.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: GeorgeHill on September 27, 2016, 07:41:43 pm
Okay - That is a GREAT photo.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on September 28, 2016, 01:13:54 am
Agreed.  It would also be awesome to have one with a soldier in the correct period uniform holding each rifle.  Oleg Volk could probably pull that one off pretty well. 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on October 04, 2016, 10:06:48 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/H2OM21A5.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on November 06, 2016, 09:16:55 am
It looks like Fulton Armory has teamed up with Criterion to create a 6.5 CREEDMOOR M14 / M1A.

What do you think?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on November 06, 2016, 04:59:11 pm
I always figured that 7mm08 or .338 Federal would be preferable for a battle rifle.  You'd probably get better barrel life out of either of those than with the 6.5's .   Recoil on either one wouldn't be unmanageable with an 8 to 9 pound rifle.  :shrug
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: ksuguy on November 06, 2016, 07:44:32 pm
I always figured that 7mm08 or .338 Federal would be preferable for a battle rifle.  You'd probably get better barrel life out of either of those than with the 6.5's .   Recoil on either one wouldn't be unmanageable with an 8 to 9 pound rifle.  :shrug

I'm working on a 7mm-08 AR-10 right now.   
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: RetroGrouch on November 07, 2016, 04:11:59 am
It looks like Fulton Armory has teamed up with Criterion to create a 6.5 CREEDMOOR M14 / M1A.

What do you think?

It's what Springfield Armory should have brought out for their SAINT promotion. 

But FA and Criterion will do a better job anyways.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on November 29, 2016, 08:46:00 am
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/5e51940bfe703838631afd4ee2ee5a6f/tumblr_ogosf7Y4gP1t9gay8o1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on December 05, 2016, 04:08:39 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/EBRandBLACKFEATHER.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on December 07, 2016, 12:42:01 am
They sure are pretty.   :cool
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on December 16, 2016, 09:50:44 am
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/CQB-16.HBA-Transparent.png)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on February 18, 2017, 09:02:07 am
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/GenItoII-d.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on March 15, 2017, 09:38:08 am
The worlds first scout hand guard for Medium weight M14/M1A barrels - the SHG-M
I installed it on my National Match Smith Enterprise M21A5 barrel last night.

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/SHG-M.c.JPG)

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/SHG-M.b.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on March 15, 2017, 02:15:54 pm
 :thumbup1
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: MTK20 on March 15, 2017, 02:27:21 pm
How do you take such an old design and make it look so space age?

You really show how flexible the M1A platform is  :thumbup1.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on March 15, 2017, 02:41:41 pm
Clearly you don't remember the movie "Space Cowboys" .  .  .    :cool
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: MTK20 on March 15, 2017, 03:08:55 pm
Clearly you don't remember the movie "Space Cowboys" .  .  .    :cool

Never heard of it  :shrug.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on March 15, 2017, 05:38:44 pm
Clint Eastwood movie from about 2000 .  A bunch of old washed up ex-test pilots ready for the old folks home take one last mission to near earth orbit to rescue/repair a crippled satellite.  Juxtaposes pre-manned space flight types into the manned space flight scenario.  Quite a few yuks and one-liners along the way.   Not a bad movie to sit down in front of with your sweetie and a bucket of popcorn. 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on March 15, 2017, 05:55:52 pm
How do you take such an old design and make it look so space age?

You really show how flexible the M1A platform is  :thumbup1.

When it comes to flexibility, the M14 / M1A owner never had it so good.

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/2in1.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: MTK20 on March 15, 2017, 06:19:02 pm
Clint Eastwood movie from about 2000 .  A bunch of old washed up ex-test pilots ready for the old folks home take one last mission to near earth orbit to rescue/repair a crippled satellite.  Juxtaposes pre-manned space flight types into the manned space flight scenario.  Quite a few yuks and one-liners along the way.   Not a bad movie to sit down in front of with your sweetie and a bucket of popcorn.

Wait a second...  :scrutiny. Is that the one where that kid wants to fly in the back of the crop duster and he loses his lunch, cos one of the old men did loops in the plane?

I think I have seen it.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on March 15, 2017, 06:27:43 pm
It was mostly a reference about old things moving into the space age.  The M1A - M14 does it a lot better than a bunch of old Hollywood types anyway as witnessed by H2O man's pics.   :thumbup1
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: MTK20 on March 15, 2017, 06:42:55 pm
It was mostly a reference about old things moving into the space age.  The M1A - M14 does it a lot better than a bunch of old Hollywood types anyway as witnessed by H2O man's pics.   :thumbup1

I'd like one someday. I just don't know what niche I'd put it in. DMR? Not sure how accurate they are, but I understand you need a cheek riser just to use a scope on them.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on March 15, 2017, 07:41:30 pm
Yes, it definitely helps.  The original stock design was for the use of iron sights.  There was a GI issue leather cheekpiece that was designed to be fitted to the stock and held in place with lacing but it was a holdover from a WWII design for M1 Garand sniper rifles.  Better than nothing but a bit of a PIA in the field IMO. 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: GeorgeHill on March 15, 2017, 08:53:44 pm
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/5e51940bfe703838631afd4ee2ee5a6f/tumblr_ogosf7Y4gP1t9gay8o1_1280.jpg)
I really dig this one.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Roper1911 on March 15, 2017, 10:06:22 pm
call me weird, but I prefer my carbines in wood furniture...
(http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/socom_gi16_14.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: sarge712 on March 21, 2017, 12:29:46 pm
I have a M1A Scout/Squad and I tried a scout scope on it but don't like it. I would rather go to a quicker, more CQB friendly sight most likely a red dot or etched reticle type sight. Any suggestions that would work best with this weapon and the 7.62x51 round?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: sarge712 on March 21, 2017, 12:38:17 pm
Nevermind. In looking back through the 11 pages of posts, I see that an Aimpoint is the predominant red dot sight on the scout versions. I happen to have one on another weapon that won't be hard to switch. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on March 21, 2017, 01:46:23 pm
Use of a Scout Hand Guard (SHG) & (SHG-M) on your M14/M1A makes the Aimpoint (or similar RDS) that much better.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on March 31, 2017, 04:21:46 pm
....
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on May 17, 2017, 08:15:44 am
Select fire M14K
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on June 18, 2017, 04:07:53 pm
(http://www.athenswater.com/CQB-16.RS.Left.Kit.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on June 25, 2017, 08:28:33 am
"Don't Want No Drama Queens....Just Want Our M14s"
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on June 25, 2017, 04:52:34 pm
QFT .  That ought to be on a T shirt somewhere.    :thumbup1
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Kaso on June 25, 2017, 05:22:09 pm
"Don't Want No Drama Queens....Just Want Our M14s"
Ironic, as the rifle pictured just above that quote has:
- Weird, space age chassis, to save weight
- A RDS
- With a level
- And a bipod
- To go with the optional magnified optic
- And the CQB stock
- In case you want to use the offset sights

That poor rifle does not know what it was wants to be when it grows up. ::) If I were to dream up a rifle to embody the term 'drama queen'... that would be it.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: MTK20 on June 25, 2017, 10:47:15 pm
Ironic, as the rifle pictured just above that quote has:
- Weird, space age chassis, to save weight
- A RDS
- With a level
- And a bipod
- To go with the optional magnified optic
- And the CQB stock
- In case you want to use the offset sights

That poor rifle does not know what it was wants to be when it grows up. ::) If I were to dream up a rifle to embody the term 'drama queen'... that would be it.

I like my M1A's long.

God made AK's with folding stocks, if one desires a 30 cal CQB rifle.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on June 26, 2017, 08:35:31 am
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/RS-CQB-16.JPG)

The grown up rifle pictured above is the most versatile configuration that I have ever assembled.
It does everything I need it to do and it does these things very well without a weight penalty.
Even though the 16.25" barrel pictured is sub MOA accurate, I still believe the 18.00" barrel is the best short barrel option.

 ::) Your confusion is probably due to how the accessories are arranged for the other picture.
Not everything pictured is attached to the rifle 24/7, it's all there to illustrate flexibility.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on June 27, 2017, 10:31:56 am
It's a shame that the rules of competition keep the wealth of real world improvements in M14 accuracy & reliability that have been proven on the two way range out of competition.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: MTK20 on June 27, 2017, 12:00:25 pm
It's a shame that the rules of competition keep the wealth of real world improvements in M14 accuracy & reliability that have been proven on the two way range out of competition.

I'm curious. Why would M1A's not be allowed in competition?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: sarge712 on June 27, 2017, 02:10:44 pm
I'm curious. Why would M1A's not be allowed in competition?

Yes, why?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on June 27, 2017, 06:37:54 pm
 :P I forget to add the title "modernized M14s & M1As"... the way I understand it, even though the EBR has been the go-to military M14 since 2003, you can't compete if your National Match rifle doesn't look vintage.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on June 27, 2017, 10:32:25 pm
 I think the troops that actually used the M14EBR-RI in combat did some amazing work with the rifles issued to them, I'd like to see them compete head to head with what the rules call for in NM competitions.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: MTK20 on June 27, 2017, 10:59:47 pm
That makes no sense of why this particular model of rifle has to remain in it's "vintage" configuration.

Unless everyone else is competing with Lee Enfield's and Garand's in their vintage configurations, they should allow this platform to reach it's full potential.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on June 28, 2017, 09:01:32 am
That makes no sense of why this particular model of rifle has to remain in it's "vintage" configuration.

Unless everyone else is competing with Lee Enfield's and Garand's in their vintage configurations, they should allow this platform to reach it's full potential.

I didn't articulate my point as well as you did - thank you.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Kaso on June 28, 2017, 10:01:24 am
I may be wrong, but don't AR-15s used in NM competitions have to look pretty much like a basic M16 clone?  If so, M14s are simply being held to the same standard.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: MTK20 on June 28, 2017, 10:31:38 am
I didn't articulate my point as well as you did - thank you.

No worries :hat.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on June 28, 2017, 12:18:29 pm
I would wager that this resistance to embrace the modernized EBR that is currently issued will be the demise of M14s in competition, over time attrition will kill off the old timers and there will be nobody left to build the traditional NM M14 in wood... The EBR is basically a DIY modification, and it can keep the sport viable for years to come.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on August 22, 2017, 07:41:53 am
The business end of two M14s

(http://www.athenswater.com/images/M14-Possibilities.JPG)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: H2O MAN on August 24, 2017, 08:07:47 am
(http://www.athenswater.com/images/BF-RS.M21A5.jpg)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: 21B on November 23, 2018, 07:00:19 pm
My latest acquisition (been mission an M14 style rifle since I got rid of my Polytech). I'm pretty sure this is an early example of the Sage chassis, because of the extended length of the handguard, old black plastic grip, and Speed Feed stock pad, but I'm waiting to hear back from Sage.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on November 23, 2018, 07:05:00 pm
Starting to show some cosmetic goobers but otherwise looks OK.  How's it shoot?
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: 21B on November 23, 2018, 07:16:37 pm
No idea yet, just picked it up this morning and since then have been watching the kids while the wife's shopping. I'm not a fan of the tan paint job either, paint is older and rubs off on the receiver. I should be able to take it out tomorrow and test it.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on November 23, 2018, 07:41:56 pm
 :thumbup1  Good luck.  I hope it performs well for you. 
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Deer Hunter on May 26, 2019, 05:38:50 pm
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/m14-us-military%E2%80%99s-worst-service-rifle-ever-59272

Suck it, LARPers.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: MTK20 on May 26, 2019, 07:55:24 pm
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/m14-us-military%E2%80%99s-worst-service-rifle-ever-59272

Suck it, LARPers.

 :facepalm
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Mikee5star on May 26, 2019, 09:06:13 pm
I watched a Q&A on C&Rsenal from a couple of years ago and they were asked what "modern" rifle they would take back to WWI.  The answer was what rifle would I take back that could be put in production with that tech level, the M14.  IMHO that says a lot about the basic design that it could be made with 19teen tech.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on May 26, 2019, 10:42:08 pm
It would be hard to beat the old M3 "Grease gun" as a trench weapon.   :hmm   I would think ammo would be hard to come by for the M14 but the M1 Garand would work without any supply chain disruption.   :coffee
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Kaso on May 27, 2019, 12:35:57 am
I imagine the M-14 could easily be re-engineered to be chambered in .30-06.  Though I do like the M3 idea.  It would have made the trench fighting very one-sided.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Kaso on May 27, 2019, 12:40:02 am
To the article, I don't know if I can agree that it is 'the worst,' though I think most of us would agree that the politics and decision making process that resulted in both it and the 7.62 round, were among the low points in our acquisition processes throughout history..
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Langenator on May 27, 2019, 08:40:30 am
I think subsequent history (i.e., the fact that tons of countries adopted the FAL and the G-3, and nobody but the U.S. adopted the M-14 unless they were given them free) showed that the M-14 was probably not the best military battle rifle available.

Is the M-14 capable of dominating the competition on the firing line at the National Matches? Yes. (At least until the M-16A2 and 77 grain SMKs came along.)

Is the FAL a better rifle for actual combat in African jungles, Middle Eastern deserts, and European mud? Also yes.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on May 27, 2019, 02:14:45 pm
Perhaps.  Still, there was no real push to arm American forces with either the FAL or the G3 or even the AR10 which would have had a common manual of arms with the  M16 .    :hmm   The fact that the M 14 in one guise or another is still in service with the American armed forces is testament enough to its standing as a battlefield weapon.  Today its a specialist's weapon and in that role its still pretty good IMO. 

Not perfect but no battle rifle is.  They are all a bundle of compromises and contradictions designed to pass a certain test at an acceptable price point.  When we decide to arm our folks with the best possible battlefield weapons regardless of cost instead of letting bureaucrats and bean counters decide the issue among the lowest bidders we will begin to see a dramatic improvement in capability.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Langenator on May 28, 2019, 08:13:27 am
The biggest reason the old M-14s were pulled out of cold storage was because we needed something with better long range performance than the M-16/M-4, and the M-14s were available, without having to go through any kind of new procurement program, and at minimal cost (especially the first ones to be pulled out, which got a scope and hopefully a cheek riser of some sort.  The Sage EBR stock came later). (Without the Hughes Amendment, I wonder if all those M-14s would have been sold through the CMP?)

The Army and Marines did buy an AR-10 variant - the Knights Armament SR-25, aka Mk 11 Mod 0 aka M110 SASS, as a partial replacement for both the M24 and M40A1 bolt action sniper rifles, as well as to try to fill the SDMR role that the M-14 EBR was doing stopgap duty as.

The M110 is, as of 2018, being replaced by a slightly more distant AR-10 derivative, the M110A1, which is based on the HK G28, which derives from the HK 417.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: coelacanth on May 28, 2019, 11:25:51 pm
True.  Which was why they were put in storage to begin with.  Yes, they were ( and are ) not the ideal solution but they were available and from what I've heard those troops that got them were pretty pleased with the additional capability. 

The SR-25 seemed to be a very limited issue item though - unless I am mistaken.   :hmm 

I follow this stuff distantly - albeit with some interest for how it affects the average combat infantryman.  Thanks for the update.   :thumbup1
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: sqlbullet on May 29, 2019, 05:39:43 pm
...(Without the Hughes Amendment, I wonder if all those M-14s would have been sold through the CMP?)...

Considering they are still working through M1's I would think not.
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: Langenator on May 29, 2019, 08:15:08 pm
There's no requirement for the CMP to sell the older stuff first.  I remember them selling M-1s (both kinds) concurrently with M1903s. If the DoD declared the M-14 surplus to requirements, and the CMP was allowed to sell them, I'm sure they would have been able to find buyers.

As it is, how long before the CMP is reduced to selling M-9s, .22 target rifles, air rifles, ammo, and shooting gear?

Actually, now that the Army has decided to buy new SiG pistols, I wonder how long it might be before CMP has any M-9s?  I'd buy one, just to have it.  (I already have a Beretta 92, but I'd love to have a .mil surplus one with attendant markings.)
Title: Re: M14 - M1A Rifles
Post by: m14ebr on December 26, 2020, 10:20:41 am
Blackfeather RS