I carried it for Alaska Coastal Brown Bears. They eat armored T-Rexes for breakfast.
:rotfl :thumbup1
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: Grant on December 07, 2016, 11:59:31 pm
I have several. .458 mag bolt action and .45-70 lever action.
That said, for Montana my "brush guns" are more in line with the eastern states. Savage 99 .300 savage, sporterized Argentine 7.65 carbine with full length stock,etc.
That said, I hunt with handguns too.....a .44 mag loaded heavy should qualify as well :cool
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: scarville on December 08, 2016, 12:20:02 am
It's a trade off between the effects of energy and momentum. Energy controls how deep a bullet will penetrate whereas momentum determines how straight a path it will take. Of course momentum also determines the recoil which for some of those "slow" heavy cartridges can be interesting.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: Deer Hunter on December 08, 2016, 01:30:02 am
If you are taking a shot without a proper visual of the target, you should not only be flogged over the head with your own silly brush gun, but thoroughly kicked out of the damned woods.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: tokugawa on December 08, 2016, 01:53:58 am
Years ago I read somewhere authoritative enough to make it stick in my brain, that the idea that fat heavy slow bullets deflected less in brush was wrong. That in fact hi velocity bullets cut through much straighter. My suspicion is the fat cartridge is thought of as a brush gun round because of the attachment to the rifle- a short lever gun is handier in thick woods, and most of them were chambered for fat slow cartridges.
All that aside, Deer Hunter is 100% right- know your target.
I would love to try that .450 Marlin and see if it kicks as hard as an 870 with 1 3/8 oz Brenneke slugs. That was my bear medicine. Big bears are terrifying, an RPG would have increased my confidence significantly..... it's not really the size, it's that they are so dang agile -it is scary to see a 1000 lb animal run over broken ground like a dancer.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: scarville on December 08, 2016, 08:21:09 am
If you are taking a shot without a proper visual of the target, you should not only be flogged over the head with your own silly brush gun, but thoroughly kicked out of the damned woods.
I agree 100% :thumbup1
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: Grant on December 08, 2016, 08:25:02 am
If you are taking a shot without a proper visual of the target, you should not only be flogged over the head with your own silly brush gun, but thoroughly kicked out of the damned woods.
See I consider a brush gun something short and compact, easily carried in tangles and thickets, and comes up super fast and naturally rather than something to "buck brush" which is a BS argument.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: Chief45 on December 08, 2016, 10:08:27 am
Grew up in Michigan. Deer hunting, especially in the northern part of the lower or in the UP, is short sight lines, lots of second and third growth timber, brush, vines, hedgerows, etc. Lower half of the lower peninsula was restricted to shotgun, black powder or bow hunting. more built up, more people, again, short sight line, brush, timber and hedgerows.
A brush gun, to me, is the same as a truck gun. something quick and compact, that you have no concerns with scratches or dings, with an adequate cartridge for what and where your hunting. In my youth, in that area, that meant a Winchester or Marlin lever gun in 30-30. if you upgraded, you went to a bolt gun in 30-06.
See I consider a brush gun something short and compact, easily carried in tangles and thickets, and comes up super fast and naturally rather than something to "buck brush" which is a BS argument.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: sqlbullet on December 08, 2016, 10:55:26 am
If you are taking a shot without a proper visual of the target, you should not only be flogged over the head with your own silly brush gun, but thoroughly kicked out of the damned woods.
I agree with this.
This test was conducted through a thicket that you would not take a hunting shot through to ensure the bullets encountered brush, not to simulate humane and ethical brush hunting conditions.
In my personal arsenal I have one "brush gun". An AR-10 in 358 Winchester. It is light, compact, easily carried, comes up fast, and by the test in the video would be effective at staying true even if it encountered a branch.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: Mikee5star on December 08, 2016, 11:15:38 am
Years ago I read somewhere authoritative enough to make it stick in my brain, that the idea that fat heavy slow bullets deflected less in brush was wrong. That in fact hi velocity bullets cut through much straighter. My suspicion is the fat cartridge is thought of as a brush gun round because of the attachment to the rifle- a short lever gun is handier in thick woods, and most of them were chambered for fat slow cartridges.
All that aside, Deer Hunter is 100% right- know your target.
I would love to try that .450 Marlin and see if it kicks as hard as an 870 with 1 3/8 oz Brenneke slugs. That was my bear medicine. Big bears are terrifying, an RPG would have increased my confidence significantly..... it's not really the size, it's that they are so dang agile -it is scary to see a 1000 lb animal run over broken ground like a dancer.
No it is truly scary to watch a 100lb animal wander along browsing and then realize that she is covering 5-7 miles an hour.
It, .450 Marlin, is not that bad. It's different from the 870, but not worse than the 870 with Brenneke's. Don't get me wrong it leaves a bruise, but it won't break your shoulder.
I preferred the short light lever rifle to the short light pump action shotty, simply for my own, probably foolish, reasons.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: Kaso on December 08, 2016, 11:46:18 am
I preferred the short light lever rifle to the short light pump action shotty, simply for my own, probably foolish, reasons.
That is curious. Having recently picked up an old 870, and having gotten back my Marlin around the same time, I can say that I am just the opposite. I never have been able to get comfortable with a lever gun, but the 870 is very instinctive.
Of course, I don't love all pump guns either. The Mossberg 500 which I no longer own was... serviceable... but when I ran it I felt less connected to the experience. Running an 870 is almost as good for me as running a Mauser bolt action - they both seem to meld with the shooter to become one platform.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: Grant on December 08, 2016, 12:56:50 pm
That is curious. Having recently picked up an old 870, and having gotten back my Marlin around the same time, I can say that I am just the opposite. I never have been able to get comfortable with a lever gun, but the 870 is very instinctive.
Of course, I don't love all pump guns either. The Mossberg 500 which I no longer own was... serviceable... but when I ran it I felt less connected to the experience. Running an 870 is almost as good for me as running a Mauser bolt action - they both seem to meld with the shooter to become one platform.
See that's funny for me as a Mossberg feels and melds with me three times better than an 870.
Goes to show that every person has to choose their own gun. I love my short, light 12 gauges.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: tokugawa on December 08, 2016, 12:59:07 pm
I preferred the short light lever rifle to the short light pump action shotty, simply for my own, probably foolish, reasons.
One thing they have in common, is a thin flat sided receiver- that makes them very easy to carry mile after mile. (after I filed off the sharp edges.) At the point of balance they just hang in the crook of your fingers. I carried a Ruger .338 bolt gun on some backpacking trips up in the ANWR , and it was like holding on to the thick end of a baseball bat. I almost never carried a rifle slung while packing, it was just uncomfortable. Ended up taking off slings, it was over the shoulder by the barrel, or in the hand. Does the shorter .450 feed smoother than the 45-70? I have only shot one 45-70 marlin and it seemed to take a vigorous lever throw to get those long straight rounds into the chamber.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: Mikee5star on December 08, 2016, 10:13:40 pm
One thing they have in common, is a thin flat sided receiver- that makes them very easy to carry mile after mile. (after I filed off the sharp edges.) At the point of balance they just hang in the crook of your fingers. I carried a Ruger .338 bolt gun on some backpacking trips up in the ANWR , and it was like holding on to the thick end of a baseball bat. I almost never carried a rifle slung while packing, it was just uncomfortable. Ended up taking off slings, it was over the shoulder by the barrel, or in the hand. Does the shorter .450 feed smoother than the 45-70? I have only shot one 45-70 marlin and it seemed to take a vigorous lever throw to get those long straight rounds into the chamber.
.450 Marlin is a belted 45-70. I am told that 45-70 will safely chamber in .450 Marlin but not vise versa. TRY ONLY AT YOUR OWN RISK. But basically it is a updated/hot version of the 45-70 modified so it can't be loaded in old/weaker guns.
It takes a vigorous lever motion. I never got fully set up to reload for .450, so I haven't shot it as much as I planned. I have only shot 300gr and 350gr Lever Revolution through it, and at over $3 per shot... I need to slipstream the crap out of the rifle.
I carried it mainly spring and fall while on a 4 wheeler slung. I did carry it moose hunting one year, and if I carried it more on foot the the sling would definitely go.
If you're ever on the Kenai Peninsula contact me and I will let you shot it. I might even get some loads rolled with the 450gr cast lead pills I have for it.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: coelacanth on December 08, 2016, 10:59:12 pm
Been fairly pleased with my Winchester "Timber Carbine" in .444 Marlin. That said it has a fair amount of "nudge" on either end of it when you drop the hammer on a round. The Marlin 336 in the same caliber is longer and heavier than the Winchester but still manageable in overgrown terrain. I guess the other thing I have that doubles as a "brush gun" is a bobbed 12 gauge double. Not much says "sit yer a&& down" like a quick pair of 1 ounce lead slugs at about 1200 fps . :cool
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: coyotesfan97 on December 09, 2016, 05:28:31 am
For a brush gun it'd either be my Marlin 45-70 Guide gun or my Mossy 930 loaded with slugs.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: cpaspr on December 10, 2016, 02:41:06 am
I grew up in western Oregon where the deer are, um, not generally very big. A 175lb buck is huge.
Growing up, I hunted with my dad's Winchester 94 in .30-30. If presented with a long shot, the intent was that he'd hand me his '06. Never happened though. I think my first deer was fairly close, and I was hunting with my uncle while my dad was on a different patch of land. The next few were at college, again, with that gun or another Model 94 borrowed from a friend.
My college graduation present was a .308 Remington 760 with a scope. Have killed a few with that too. But, probably the best illustration of what a brush gun is, for me, would be the last deer I shot. I had a Model 94 in the trunk, and the .308 in the car, and was driving out on a logging road headed for a different location. Spotted a nice doe up the road just off the shoulder. Stopped the car, got out, knelt and took the shot. She went down, but got up and crashed into the brush on the downhill side of the road. I gave her a few minutes and swapped the Remington for the Winny. If I had to take another shot, the shortness of the range precluded using a magnified scope, even down on 3x. I didn't need to take a second shot, but to me, I had the proper gun if I had needed it.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: Roper1911 on December 10, 2016, 11:23:55 am
my "brush gun" would be my 500A1. it's a bit longer then a nice 16" lever carbine. but the authority and manageability of 1 1/8th oz. slugs out of that thing make up for the extra 4 inches.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: JackCrow on December 10, 2016, 12:26:27 pm
When someone says "brush gun" I always think lever-action rifle. My 336 30-30 has been getting it done for a long time.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: First Shirt on December 11, 2016, 08:16:02 am
A 20-inch M-92, or clone thereof, makes a nifty brush gun. Not a long range rifle, but light and accurate enough for 100 yards or less. A .44 Mag, or (my favorite) a .45 Colt with stout handloads can deliver a lot of short-range thump.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: mattitude on December 11, 2016, 09:43:21 am
I still have my set of reloading dies (I also believe that I still have some .458 projectiles lying around) if you would like to give them a try. I owned a first year 450 Marlin 1895GG with the 18" ported barrel. The only mods/improvements that I did was replace the trigger with an aftermarket to eliminate that annoying "Marlin flop" and an XS sight set. I absolutely loved the gun/caliber combination but my destroyed right shoulder didn't care for it much so I ended up selling it to my buddy...but since he didn't reload I kept the dies and what was left of the components that I had left.
It takes a vigorous lever motion. I never got fully set up to reload for .450, so I haven't shot it as much as I planned. I have only shot 300gr and 350gr Lever Revolution through it, and at over $3 per shot... I need to slipstream the crap out of the rifle.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: Mississippi556 on December 11, 2016, 09:47:26 am
My nice little Marlin 336 .30-30 (made back in the '60s) was stolen a few years back. It was the perfect brush gun for here in the Deep South piney woods.
Since then I have learned to appreciate the brush capabilities of Remington 742 rifles. I have them in .30-06, .308 and .280. Topped with a 2-7x scope they work and do add extended range. Not as light as the little 336, but almost as handy.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: Roper1911 on December 11, 2016, 02:47:36 pm
My nice little Marlin 336 .30-30 (made back in the '60s) was stolen a few years back. It was the perfect brush gun for here in the Deep South piney woods.
Since then I have learned to appreciate the brush capabilities of Remington 742 rifles. I have them in .30-06, .308 and .280. Topped with a 2-7x scope they work and do add extended range. Not as light as the little 336, but almost as handy.
I had a 760 carbine on .30-06. It was quick, handy and light. but the recoil was something else. I ended up selling it, which I regret to this day.
Title: Re: Brush Gun
Post by: Mikee5star on December 11, 2016, 11:16:07 pm
I still have my set of reloading dies (I also believe that I still have some .458 projectiles lying around) if you would like to give them a try. I owned a first year 450 Marlin 1895GG with the 18" ported barrel. The only mods/improvements that I did was replace the trigger with an aftermarket to eliminate that annoying "Marlin flop" and an XS sight set. I absolutely loved the gun/caliber combination but my destroyed right shoulder didn't care for it much so I ended up selling it to my buddy...but since he didn't reload I kept the dies and what was left of the components that I had left.
Thanks Matt, but I have die's, brass, bullets and primers. I have just never figured out what powder I wanted to try. And now I need to find a place to set up my reloading stuff. I hope to have my boiler/utility room sorted by Christmas, and have a corner left over for a small bench for the Redding T-6 with shelves above for supplies.