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Author Topic: 45-70 auto?  (Read 30336 times)

Harm

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Re: 45-70 auto?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2010, 12:27:54 pm »
I see said the blind man.  So a .458 Socom with the right load = AR platform capable of Elk then eh?  gigglesnort!  I just ordered a Cav Arms lower today... 
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    only1asterisk

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #26 on: February 17, 2010, 12:46:48 pm »
    I don't know that I'd put a 458 SOCOM on a Cavalry Arms MkII at this point in time. 

    The Cavalry Arms crew was concerned that the added recoil might excess wear and possibly cause the receiver to fail.  This would not have been a big deal a couple years ago.  In addition to their regular warranty, Cavalry Arm would replace a damaged receiver for $30 no matter what the owner did.

    With the warranty service being taken over be another company, I'd wait and see what happened first.

    Them you'll need one of these:

    http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=253

    Or maybe a custom upper from my friend Marty http://www.teppojutsu.com/


    HiVelSword

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #27 on: February 17, 2010, 01:31:38 pm »

    Or maybe a custom upper from my friend Marty http://www.teppojutsu.com/


    Yeah, Marty is awesome. He's still waiting on Cor Bon for his order of .44 Automag that he placed in November! Can't wait for my upper to be done!!!

    I've half a mind to call or e-mail Cor Bon myself but I don't want to open up a can of worms.
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    HiVelSword

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #28 on: February 17, 2010, 01:37:49 pm »
    Always wondered how many rounds of .458 would fit in a C-mag. I'm guessing 33-34.

    My next custom lower will be specifically designated/engraved for .458 SOCOM. The upper I'll have to buy from Marty because RRA doesn't offer their barrels with a break.
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    only1asterisk

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #29 on: February 17, 2010, 01:41:46 pm »
    Always wondered how many rounds of .458 would fit in a C-mag. I'm guessing 33-34.
    It doesn't work with the .458.

    If Marty needed .44 AutoMag why doesn't he load it up?

    HiVelSword

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #30 on: February 17, 2010, 01:48:22 pm »
    It doesn't work with the .458.

    If Marty needed .44 AutoMag why doesn't he load it up?


    As soon as I read that I was like, "duh!" remembering how the feed system works. Yeah, I need a safety helmet.

    Anyway, he already did load some. But that's because he was waiting so long. I guess he figured it'd be easier to not have to make them.

    At this stage he's working on converting the mags, test firing and then he's going to cut the barrel back and weld a Shrewd MB (I want a 16" O/A barrel length). He might farm it out to Tony Rumore as I know Marty hates welding.
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    only1asterisk

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #31 on: February 17, 2010, 01:54:15 pm »
    As soon as I read that I was like, "duh!" remembering how the feed system works. Yeah, I need a safety helmet.

    Anyway, he already did load some. But that's because he was waiting so long. I guess he figured it'd be easier to not have to make them.

    At this stage he's working on converting the mags, test firing and then he's going to cut the barrel back and weld a Shrewd MB (I want a 16" O/A barrel length). He might farm it out to Tony Rumore as I know Marty hates welding.

    I read it mean Marty was actually waiting for the ammo.  I was  ???'d

    HiVelSword

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #32 on: February 17, 2010, 02:14:45 pm »
    I read it mean Marty was actually waiting for the ammo.  I was  ???'d

    "Black Sunshine" is just a side project. I'm sure he'll load more if need be but I can see where he'd be able to slam dunk the whole thing if he had his shipment come in.

    I'm going to send him a few POF 25 round mags so that when the upper is finished it will have the POF's and 2 P-mags in the box. He told me that as I buy more mags, I can buy the conversion kits (spacer/follower/spring).

    Yeah, this carbine is a long time coming. I can't wait to load for it myself! Experimenting with different bullet designs and such.
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    only1asterisk

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #33 on: February 17, 2010, 02:35:41 pm »
    I see said the blind man.  So a .458 Socom with the right load = AR platform capable of Zombie Elk then eh?  gigglesnort!  I just ordered a Cav Arms lower today... 

    I understand the CProducts 40 rounder are running great 14-15 rounds of 458 SOCOM...

    Matthew Mayner

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #34 on: February 17, 2010, 03:03:36 pm »
    And let's not forget McCann's .458 Win Mag Garands:
    http://www.mccannindustries.com/rifles/458garand/458garand.html



    So can it be bump fired?  You know in case you need to stop that rampaging dump truck RIGHT NOW!
    IdahoCome check out my blog for more SCI-FI and Fantasy stories. I promise you lots of explosions!

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    only1asterisk

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #35 on: February 17, 2010, 03:31:13 pm »
    So can it be bump fired?  You know in case you need to stop that rampaging dump truck RIGHT NOW!

    I think a better question might be: Can you shoot it without bump firing?


    JWF III

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #36 on: February 17, 2010, 03:44:38 pm »
    Quote
    So can it be bump fired?  You know in case you need to stop that rampaging dump truck RIGHT NOW!

    Better yet. The trigger group functions the same as an M1A as and Mini-14. The trigger group can be "adjusted" to fire once on the pull, and once on the release. A lot more controllable than bump firing.

    Wyman

    Harm

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #37 on: February 17, 2010, 03:53:47 pm »
    I may be in the minority, but I hope not, but that hardly sounds safe man...  in fact I can see A LOT OF BAD coming from that.   :scrutiny
    ArizonaIn Deo Confido

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    Daylight

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #38 on: February 17, 2010, 05:58:52 pm »
    I have wondered about cutting .308 or .30-06 below the shoulder to make an .45 uber auto.  I assume someone has already done this or something like this.

    IIRC Jeff Cooper advocated a round like this is a semi auto PDW configuration for REMFs.  Authoritative to 150-200 yards, semi only.
    Washington"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  But, in practice, there is. "
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    Deer Hunter

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #39 on: February 17, 2010, 06:02:36 pm »
    .45 Super brass can be made from that method, Daylight.

    JesseL

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #40 on: February 17, 2010, 06:12:24 pm »
    As can .44 Automag.
    Arizona

    HiVelSword

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #41 on: February 17, 2010, 06:54:19 pm »
    As can .44 Automag.

    Yeah, the more I post about it the more I can't wait. Marty says that recoil is ridiculously light. I wanna know that for myself!

    Gah! It's KEEEELing me!!!   :devillol
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    FluffyHitman

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #42 on: February 19, 2010, 06:44:15 pm »
    So is there any particular reason that an SVD/PSL/SVT-40 (in theory, don't mess up a genuine SVT-40 for this) couldn't be rechambered into .45-70? Is the mag a bit too thin for the rim? I've been reading up on a 16" PSL with AK furniture that is currently in the production process, and .45-70 would be even more fun than 7.62x54, although I'm pretty sure either would be plenty for anything I'm likely to hunt. The .45-70 would also likely be a lot more expensive unless I was handloading.
    "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

    JesseL

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #43 on: February 19, 2010, 07:13:29 pm »
    The rims of 7.62x54R and .45-70 are close enough that no change to the bolt face should be necessary.

    The tricky thing is that the body of the .45-70 doesn't taper like the 7.62x54R. Cylinder vs. Cone. That makes the curvature (and maybe the fore-aft taper) of the magazines all wrong.

    Trying to fabricate magazines is way beyond what a gun mangler like me can handle.
    Arizona

    only1asterisk

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #44 on: February 19, 2010, 07:23:14 pm »
    The rims of 7.62x54R and .45-70 are close enough that no change to the bolt face should be necessary.

    The tricky thing is that the body of the .45-70 doesn't taper like the 7.62x54R. Cylinder vs. Cone. That makes the curvature (and maybe the fore-aft taper) of the magazines all wrong.

    Trying to fabricate magazines is way beyond what a gun mangler like me can handle.

    What he said, expect that there is enough bolt face differnce to case trouble in some guns.

    FluffyHitman

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #45 on: February 19, 2010, 07:38:41 pm »
    So the PSL magazines are single-stacked? Pity, if they were double-stack I bet you could modify them to feed single-stacked .45-70 pretty easily. You would want a heavier barrel profile than most PSLs have for the .45-70, though. It's already pretty light even without shaving off another .14".
    "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

    JesseL

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #46 on: February 19, 2010, 07:50:44 pm »
    What he said, expect that there is enough bolt face differnce to case trouble in some guns.

    Modifying bolt faces doesn't scare me:



    So the PSL magazines are single-stacked? Pity, if they were double-stack I bet you could modify them to feed single-stacked .45-70 pretty easily. You would want a heavier barrel profile than most PSLs have for the .45-70, though. It's already pretty light even without shaving off another .14".

    I think PSL mags are double stacked, but I'm still not sure how well they'll feed. Anyone willing to spend the money for a mag and box of .45-70 can figure it out easily enough though. Heck, paypal me $50 and I'll run over to J&G tomorrow and let you know  ;D
    Arizona

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #47 on: February 22, 2010, 06:11:23 pm »
    That brings up a good question.  Does anyone know of any Dragunov like weapons chambered for anything other than 7.62x54r?  (and that's actually available and doesn't cost a billion dollars?)

    Izhmash was making an SVD in a 9.3x64mm round. So I am sure you could get an SVD to fire a bigger round. I don't know if the russians ever adopted it though or what became of the design. At any rate we won't see them for sale around here any time soon. :banghead

    So the PSL magazines are single-stacked? Pity, if they were double-stack I bet you could modify them to feed single-stacked .45-70 pretty easily.

    The 10 round PSL mags are double stack. Though I would think that getting them to fit around other than the 54R would be hard. They aren't the easiest of mags to load. I think the big problem you would have would be the front of the mag is narrower than the rear. I am not sure you would be able to fit a long streight necked round in their. Though I am not very familier with the 45-70.
    Doobie Doobie Doo...

    Harm

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #48 on: March 02, 2010, 01:25:15 pm »
    I don't know that I'd put a 458 SOCOM on a Cavalry Arms MkII at this point in time. 

    So I don't normally like to link to other forums but I figured this was worthy...
    http://www.sigarms556.com/viewtopic.php?t=8160&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
    ArizonaIn Deo Confido

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    Into the last good fight I'll ever know
    Live and die on this day
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    HiVelSword

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    Re: 45-70 auto?
    « Reply #49 on: March 02, 2010, 01:30:13 pm »
    So I don't normally like to link to other forums but I figured this was worthy...
    http://www.sigarms556.com/viewtopic.php?t=8160&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

    Yeah, Tony is awesome. I'm glad I'm e-palz with him. He and Marty are the dynamic duo when it comes to rifles outside the norm.
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

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