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Author Topic: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass  (Read 6873 times)

StevenTing

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New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
« on: January 20, 2012, 06:13:41 pm »
When developing a load, will performance/accuracy vary much when using new brass compared to once fired brass?  For target practice, I'm assuming the answer is No, since we're just shooting paper.  But what about rifle cartridges at long distances?  I thought I read somewhere that Military Snipers roll their own for their rifles, but does New vs. Once-Fired make that much difference?
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    mnw42

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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 02:04:02 am »
    It can, especially with mil-surp rifles with loose chambers.  The bench rest guys I know only use virgin brass when they have to.  They use the same 10-20 pieces over and over again until they start to fail.
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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 02:21:14 am »
    For 98 out of 100 shooters, it won't matter.  That other 2 percent?  It's tripping over dollars to pick up nickels.  But, they understand that, and a tighter group is a tighter group, no matter the cost.

    Best bet, unless you are going into serious bench rest work(the kind where an 1/8 of an inch is a big deal, and the custom rifle barrel costs at least as much as a complete off the shelf Remington 700) is this:  Quality components and repeatable results.  Brought on by consistent assembly technique.

    With bottle neck cartridge cases, neck-sizing only as a practice will usually enhance accuracy by a noticeable amount, and will generally extend case life a bit as well.
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    StevenTing

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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 10:49:15 pm »
    So if I'm going to practice long distance shooting for 800+ yards, I shouldn't see to much of a difference.  The gun is supposed to be able to do .5 MOA.  I just want to be able to do 1 MOA with my rifle and current scope.  I need more practice cause I don't know how to judge distance or wind or any of that stuff.

    I've been using American Eagle .308 and keeping the brass so that's what I'd load with.  I wanted to make sure I wouldn't see extremely different results buying new brass and loading the same.
    Utah

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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #4 on: January 22, 2012, 01:50:36 am »
    The most accurate loads come from once fired.... In your gun.  Fire Formed. But it's only for that one specific gun.  Each gun is slightly different.  Fire Formed, then Neck Sized and not full length resized.
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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #5 on: June 01, 2013, 05:30:03 pm »
    Necrothreadmancy: So, as a general rule, how often can you reuse brass? 1-5? 5-10?

    (I fully realize this would depend on how hot the loads you're running are and (as mnw42 said) how well in spec the chamber is, etc.)

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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #6 on: June 01, 2013, 08:42:59 pm »
    i don't do much reloading for rifles but i have 45 acp brass that is at over a dozen reloads.
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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #7 on: June 01, 2013, 11:42:33 pm »
    Shoot till you see signs of failure.
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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #8 on: June 02, 2013, 10:03:04 am »
    Heard from a reloader who has his bulk brass anealed every so often. Is he bsing me? Re-anealing could warp the brass in my opinion. Unless you are talking controlled reheating of the brass to make it malleable again.

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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #9 on: June 02, 2013, 11:26:52 am »
    Heard from a reloader who has his bulk brass anealed every so often. Is he bsing me? Re-anealing could warp the brass in my opinion. Unless you are talking controlled reheating of the brass to make it malleable again.

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    Is that not the definition of annealing?
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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #10 on: June 02, 2013, 01:54:53 pm »
    Unless you are talking controlled reheating of the brass to make it malleable again.

    That is annealling.
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    StevenTing

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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #11 on: June 02, 2013, 03:56:26 pm »
    I've never pushed mine to the limit but I usually replace between 10 - 15 reloads on my .45
    Utah

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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #12 on: June 05, 2013, 12:25:13 am »
    A lot of guys will anneal their case necks on bottleneck cartridges every 5 reloads or so.  I don't bother in most cases, except on oddball calibers with expensive brass, as doing it right is a little tricky, and unless you do it fairly often, your consistency will suffer.   

     
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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #13 on: June 05, 2013, 01:08:28 am »
    Moderate loads in bolt gun chambered in a modern cartridge with good brass with minimal sizing might live for 7-10 rounds.  Loaded to the ragged edge the same might do 5+.

    Less than perfect brass, chamber or excessive sizing?  Cut that in half.  Multiple negative factors?  Cut it in half again.

    There are rifles that destroy good brass on the second or third shot and that others that see any passable brass make it past the tenth reloading.  Pressure, brass quality, chamber/reloading die fit and firearm design all matter.

    The .45 ACP holds my personal record with brass on it's 24th firing.  (Not typical.  More of an experiment.)

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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #14 on: June 05, 2013, 11:53:53 am »
    I don't track mine. I shoot, dump in appropriate brass bag/bucket, clean, reload, shoot again till I see a problem. I have no idea how many times some of my handgun brass may have been reloaded.
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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #15 on: June 05, 2013, 01:36:23 pm »
    For my hunting rifles, I'm more concerned with consistent brand of brass, then with the weight of the re-sized and trimmed case.  I have no idea how many times the brass has been fired, though most of it is range pickup brass, so just once is the actual answer most of the time, since most of the guys who leave their brass are only sighting their guns in for hunting with ammo they just bought at the store. 

    My thought process is that if the properly sized cases all weigh the same, and are from the same manufacturer, then I have a reasonable assurance that the case capacity (which will affect consistent pressures) and chemical composition of the brass  (which affects rate of expansion, again affecting pressure curves) are consistent, and will give me the best chance at repeatable performance using the same components round to round.  Of course, that could all just be me playing mind-games on myself, but the results seem to be consistent with the hypothesis.  3/4" groups at 100 yards, and for hunting accuracy 30 years ago a 2" group was perfectly fine.  Still is for hunting, but if I can get it tighter with a bit of quality control, why not?

    That's all for hunting rifles.

    Otherwise, I load till I lose them or they split or they won't hold the primer any more.
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    Re: New Brass vs. Once Fired Brass
    « Reply #16 on: June 05, 2013, 11:42:37 pm »
    I was referring to rapid heating and cooling of the brass. Not true annealing.
    Sorry, wrong definition on my part.

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