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Author Topic: Need a .44 AMP recipe  (Read 13773 times)

HiVelSword

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Need a .44 AMP recipe
« on: May 17, 2012, 12:05:51 pm »
Cor Bon rates theirs (240 grain) at 1,450 fps from a 6.5" barrel.

So I figure 1,400 fps would be a good test round for Black Sunshine. I'm using Berry's plated 240 grain bullets. How many grains and which propellant should I use?

Googling .44 AMP recipes is annoying. Taffin has some loads but they are out of a 10" Wildey barrel.

So if someone is bored, please try to find a recipe for me.  ;)

Thanks!!!!!
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

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    Outbreak

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #1 on: May 17, 2012, 12:07:27 pm »
    You're shooting a 16" barrel?
    TexasOutbreak

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    HiVelSword

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #2 on: May 17, 2012, 12:12:57 pm »
    You're shooting a 16" barrel?

    Well, it's more like 14.5". I had Marty pin and weld on the Shrewd MB after cutting it back. Wanted the barrel as short as possible without going SBR.

    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    HiVelSword

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #3 on: May 17, 2012, 12:24:49 pm »
    Be interesting what kind of velocity I'm going to get from the longer barrel. I wonder if Gundoc has a chrony? :)
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    Outbreak

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #4 on: May 17, 2012, 12:47:09 pm »
    For my experimental loads, I test for accuracy and pressure signs. So I start well below whatever equivalent to "starting load" I find, and work up in 0.2gr increments until I see high pressure signs. That gives me a ballpark for that powder/bullet combo. Different bullet weights will change all that.
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    HiVelSword

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #5 on: May 17, 2012, 01:45:20 pm »
    The problem is I'm making this stuff for Joe so that he can convert the 8 POF mags I'm sending him along with the carbine. I don't want to shoot it at all until it's "right". Because if I show up with that thing at a range I would be spending time explaining why I'm single loading and firing. Not too big a deal but my first time at the range I want things to go smoothly. I want Joe to call or text me and say, "Andy, this carbine and you are GTG." Then and only then will I go to the range. The last thing in the world that I want to happen is someone watching me clear jam after jam. That's akin to the nightmare of being in the classroom naked.

    Anyway, I think I saw a recipe online for a 240 at 1,300 or 1,350 from an Automag. I think that it should be safe enough in my AR if I duplicated it.

    I know, I know. Famous last words. But I'm not looking for Joe to sue me. lol
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    HiVelSword

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #6 on: May 17, 2012, 03:17:30 pm »
    I sent Marty an e-mail. I believe he had a friend that loaded up some rounds for him. Would make sense to follow suit if he was shooting the thing with no issues.

    Watch, they were 200's and not 240's. That would be just my luck.  :doh lol
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    Outbreak

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #7 on: May 17, 2012, 07:51:42 pm »
    Hmm...brand new custom AR chambered in a wildcat? And you think it will work the first time out?

    Ok. :coffee
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    HiVelSword

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 08:56:31 pm »
    Hmm...brand new custom AR chambered in a wildcat? And you think it will work the first time out?

    Ok. :coffee

    Cor Bon makes ammo for this "wildcat"  :neener. I just don't want to pay their price. And Marty says the one mag he converted works (though he was rushed).

    Anyway, I'd rather have Joe do the work especially since Marty has been in Singapore since I got my upper back. And if Joe converts the mags and they all work properly then yes, MY first time out it should work.
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    Outbreak

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 09:48:57 pm »
    Should feed or cycle?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    Jim147

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #10 on: May 17, 2012, 09:52:25 pm »
    For the first test I always try a box of factory ammo if it is available. It just gets rid of a few variables. Like seating depth when using a plated or lead bullet.

    If I was working up a load for that bullet, I would start with 10 grains of Unique. Or about 19 grains of H110.

    Proper function, acceptable accuracy and not beating the the thing to death might take some work. If you can get it all on the first go around...

    jim

    Outbreak

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #11 on: May 17, 2012, 11:14:02 pm »
    For the first test I always try a box of factory ammo if it is available. It just gets rid of a few variables. Like seating depth when using a plated or lead bullet.

    This.

    I've bought maybe 200rds of factory .300BLK (over $1 per shot) to test function and to use as a baseline whenever I get a chrono. I'll make my subsonic loads match that performance, but you gotta have a starting point.
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    HiVelSword

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #12 on: May 17, 2012, 11:24:30 pm »
    "if it is available"

    Well, Marty ordered some from Cor Bon once. Canceled the order four months later. Makes me think they make a batch once a year. So even though they list it as an item for sale they are not easy to get a hold of. I'm not going to wait because only Cor Bon and God know when I'll finally get them.

    Joe asked for 300 handloaded rounds plus 6 dummy cartridges. That's what I'm going to send him. Just going to find a load first. I'll wait for Marty to get back to me regarding the handloads he shot.
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    Outbreak

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #13 on: May 18, 2012, 12:05:52 am »
    If it's that hard to get, then rolling your own makes all the sense in the world.

    As for the embarrassment at the range, allow me to submit this.

    You show up at the range with what appears to be a tricked out AR-15. You begin by loading one round at a time to test function of the rifle. You then load two at a time to test cycling and ensure it's not doubling. Everyone sees you doing this. They're curious. Eventually someone comes over and asks, and you talk in great detail about how you're testing your big-bore, exotic-chambered carbine. You gain instant credibility because you aren't shooting .223, and any failures of the gun are because it's a highly technical, custom project, not a failure.

    In short, you could have a jam-o-matic but you'll still be the coolest guy at the range, and you'll validate your load before you send Gundoc a jam-o-matic.

    I know this because it's exactly what happened with my .300BLK SBR.
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    only1asterisk

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #14 on: May 18, 2012, 12:12:24 am »
    I have 44 AMP data around here somewhere.  I look it up for you in the morning.
    Starline Brass WLP Primer
    Win 296 Start 20 grains
                Max   23 grains
    « Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 12:26:47 am by only1asterisk »

    HiVelSword

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #15 on: May 18, 2012, 08:55:32 am »
    If it's that hard to get, then rolling your own makes all the sense in the world.

    As for the embarrassment at the range, allow me to submit this.

    You show up at the range with what appears to be a tricked out AR-15. You begin by loading one round at a time to test function of the rifle. You then load two at a time to test cycling and ensure it's not doubling. Everyone sees you doing this. They're curious. Eventually someone comes over and asks, and you talk in great detail about how you're testing your big-bore, exotic-chambered carbine. You gain instant credibility because you aren't shooting .223, and any failures of the gun are because it's a highly technical, custom project, not a failure.

    In short, you could have a jam-o-matic but you'll still be the coolest guy at the range, and you'll validate your load before you send Gundoc a jam-o-matic.

    I know this because it's exactly what happened with my .300BLK SBR.

    Thanks for that, Outbreak. All I was thinking of was the embarassment and frustration. But by putting it that way I feel a lot better now.

    And that's what I'm going to do. Load 40 then go to the range and try it. If I have no issues I will load the rest that I need. If I do have an issue I will go back to the drawing board and try an extra grain or one less grain depending on the problem.

    Thanks again!
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    HiVelSword

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #16 on: May 18, 2012, 08:58:16 am »
    I have 44 AMP data around here somewhere.  I look it up for you in the morning.
    Starline Brass WLP Primer
    Win 296 Start 20 grains
                Max   23 grains

    Well it's a good thing I have Starline brass and WLP primers! :)

    I think I will make 20 of each for a total of 80 rounds. Make sure I mark the ziplocks properly and then go to the range. I'm looking forward to it!  :D

    Oh, and thanks 1*!!!
    « Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 10:01:01 am by HiVelSword »
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    HiVelSword

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #17 on: September 20, 2012, 12:05:04 pm »
    So tonight is the night. Will be popping my loading cherry! :cool

    I know I mentioned 20 rounds per increment. But could I get away with 10 rounds?

    Remember, my goal is to settle on a grain count and then load 300 rounds. If you were me, how many would you test per increment? I was thinking 20 was unecessary but then I don't know squat about testing loads except putting them in the gun and shooting them. Am I wrong settling on fewer and do the opposite?

    Also, about the only sign of overpressure I know of would be sticky case extraction. What else should I keep an eye out for?

    Not sure I will make it to the range this weekend but I hope to.
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    JesseL

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #18 on: September 20, 2012, 12:21:00 pm »
    Also, about the only sign of overpressure I know of would be sticky case extraction. What else should I keep an eye out for?

    Without some factory loads for comparison, a chronograph, or pressure measuring equipment; that's about the best you'll do.  :shrug
    Arizona

    HiVelSword

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #19 on: September 20, 2012, 12:26:02 pm »
    Fair enough! Hopefully my hands and face will survive the ordeal. ;)

    But I trust WTA members. I'm willing to bet the recipe Only 1* gave me was within SAAMI specs. :)
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    only1asterisk

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #20 on: September 20, 2012, 12:33:23 pm »
    Without some factory loads for comparison, a chronograph, or pressure measuring equipment; that's about the best you'll do.  :shrug

    The primers are the weak link in your specific setup.  The rifle itself will take much higher pressures.  I don't see that this can go far wrong unless you use the wrong powder.  The start loads may not produce enough pressure to operate the gas system.  I'd only load 10 of them. 

    Load a dummy first to confirm that your rifle will chamber the specific bullet at that OAL.


    JesseL

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #21 on: September 20, 2012, 12:36:42 pm »
    Here's Hodgdon's .44 AMP data:

    I suggest double checking that against what you find at http://data.hodgdon.com. They may update it from time to time.

    Also note that aside from normal lot to lot variations W296 and H110 are the same thing.

    Arizona

    HiVelSword

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #22 on: September 20, 2012, 12:40:38 pm »
    The primers are the weak link in your specific setup.  The rifle itself will take much higher pressures.  I don't see that this can go far wrong unless you use the wrong powder.  The start loads may not produce enough pressure to operate the gas system.  I'd only load 10 of them. 

    Load a dummy first to confirm that your rifle will chamber the specific bullet at that OAL.



    Yeah, making a couple dummies too. And nope, everything I have is what you listed.
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    only1asterisk

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #23 on: September 20, 2012, 12:41:13 pm »
    Fair enough! Hopefully my hands and face will survive the ordeal. ;)

    But I trust WTA members. I'm willing to bet the recipe Only 1* gave me was within SAAMI specs. :)

    If anything is a bit on the low side.  I believe it is derived from a load for the heavier .308 bases brass with less case capacity.  You have a very large margin of safety.  The rifle was designed to accept 60k psi from a cartridge this diameter with a significant safety margin.

    As a practice, you really shouldn’t accept a load from a disembodied internet voice, but this once it will be ok.

    HiVelSword

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    Re: Need a .44 AMP recipe
    « Reply #24 on: September 20, 2012, 12:46:03 pm »
    If anything is a bit on the low side.  I believe it is derived from a load for the heavier .308 bases brass with less case capacity.  You have a very large margin of safety.  The rifle was designed to accept 60k psi from a cartridge this diameter with a significant safety margin.

    As a practice, you really shouldn’t accept a load from a disembodied internet voice, but this once it will be ok.


     :rotfl yeah, I hear ya.

    Jesse, I've seen that chart before. I know it's good to err on the side of caution but the loads for the 240 look downright anemic to me. Even their "max" load.

     
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

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