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Author Topic: Neck size vs. FL size  (Read 4648 times)

cpaspr

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Neck size vs. FL size
« on: December 07, 2009, 01:52:15 am »
A hypothetical question.  Or maybe not.

Previous shot - used either full-length resized handloads, or factory rounds, all from your gun.

Now, since you are reloading only for your gun, you choose to neck size only, to extend the life of the brass.

It seems like the neck sized only cases would have a greater powder capacity than the full-length sized cases, since the n/s cases are still fire-formed to your specific chamber, whereas the f/l cases have been squeezed back down to factory specs.

If this is the case, then bullets fired from f/l sized cases would probably hit slightly higher than bullets from n/s only cases, due to the greater case pressure from the smaller capacity case.

For those of you for whom 3/4" is an oversize group, is this a real problem?  And what is your solution?
Oregon

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    JesseL

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    Re: Neck size vs. FL size
    « Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 11:00:54 am »
    I've never actually experimented with it, but I would hypothesize that there would be very little real world difference. The full length sized brass should fire form to the same dimensions of the neck sized brass before more than a small fraction of the powder has burned and so there should be little effect on the pressure generated.
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    Re: Neck size vs. FL size
    « Reply #2 on: December 09, 2009, 09:03:42 am »
    Jesse's correct as far as internal volume goes.  You will have more internal volume difference between individual lots of brass, and more so between brands of brass than the difference you create by full length sizing.  As far as accuracy goes, I just neck size, check length, and chamber check with my bolt actions.   Doing this with my rifles has always resulted in sub 1" groups once I find a powder and slug combo the rifle likes.

    With a semi auto, IMO, full length sizing is the only way to go.
    This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

    cpaspr

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    Re: Neck size vs. FL size
    « Reply #3 on: December 09, 2009, 06:06:13 pm »
    Thanks guys.  I won't worry about it then, and will get on with the process. 

    I was using IMR 4895 with 150gr flat base spire point bullets, but want to work up a load for 165gr bullets.  Don't recall if they're flat base or boat-tail.  I'll be using IMR 4350 for starters, since I have a pound of it and no other potential applications.

    I'll load the rounds up, but won't be shooting them till I get the scope swapped out.  Still need to get a new scope base for a K98 Mauser, then rings to get the 3x9 up high enough.  May not be till the new year, but at least I know I can go ahead and start loading ammo without worrying about the sizing issue.
    Oregon

    THE NORSEMAN

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    Re: Neck size vs. FL size
    « Reply #4 on: December 09, 2009, 08:50:42 pm »
    What caliber are we discussing here?
    This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

    cpaspr

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    Re: Neck size vs. FL size
    « Reply #5 on: December 09, 2009, 10:29:19 pm »
    I guess that does take it past the hypothetical, doesn't it?

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    Discussed here:  https://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,5162.msg80359.html#msg80359
    and here:  https://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,5455.msg85955.html#msg85955
    Oregon

    THE NORSEMAN

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    Re: Neck size vs. FL size
    « Reply #6 on: December 09, 2009, 11:08:47 pm »
    Start at the starting loads in your manuals and work up to it carefully, but I've found in that caliber with a good rifle(chamber and barrel in good shape, decent stock that's been free floated in front of the recoil lug), and seating the slug just off the lands if magazine length allows it, that running at or near 57.0 grains of  H4350 under a 165 grain slug gives wonderful groups and plenty of speed.

     
    « Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 07:46:13 am by THE NORSEMAN »
    This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

    cpaspr

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    Re: Neck size vs. FL size
    « Reply #7 on: December 10, 2009, 01:45:54 am »
    Norseman -

    Is that 57.0gr with a 150 or 165gr bullet?

    I have IMR4350 rather than H4350, which Hodgdon's site shows as 56.0 to 60.0(c)gr vs 53.0 to 59.0 gr.  Velocities are similar, though H4350 has a 6 grain spread top to bottom vs the 4 grain spread for the IMR4350.  Interesting that for the IMR4350, the "start 10% lower and work up" puts it below the recommended starting weight.
    Oregon

    THE NORSEMAN

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    Re: Neck size vs. FL size
    « Reply #8 on: December 10, 2009, 07:54:54 am »
    Sorry.  A 165 grain slug.  Post edited to reflect that.  It was in  my head, just didn't make it to my fingers........

    As far as IMR 4350 vs. H4350 powder?  Either will work, I just happen to run a lot of Hodgdon powders personally.  As for the differences between them, just follow the manuals, don't go below the listed minimums, and then just look for the sweet spot charge wise in your rifle.  Once you find that, then you can play with seating depth for fine tuning.  How many manuals do you have to cross reference data with?
    This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

    cpaspr

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    Re: Neck size vs. FL size
    « Reply #9 on: December 10, 2009, 02:33:52 pm »
    How many manuals do you have to cross reference data with?

    Just one that includes rifle loads, but I can check several sources online, and I have a friend who has more manuals than Obama has czars.
    Oregon

    THE NORSEMAN

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    Re: Neck size vs. FL size
    « Reply #10 on: December 10, 2009, 09:09:43 pm »
    As a rule, I ALWAYS check at least three current published sources when working up new loads, preferably double that.  That way you can get a feel for appropriate range.  If you have one source with wildly differing data from the other 2 or more manuals you reference, you have a good idea of what is most common or more likely to perform as it should.  You single source it and run into one typo, it could have catastrophic results.
    This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

    cpaspr

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    Re: Neck size vs. FL size
    « Reply #11 on: December 11, 2009, 01:41:26 am »
    Agreed.  And I've seen typos like that.

    I have seven online reloading sources that are not manufacturers, plus the various bullet and powder manufacturers, plus the manual.  And I've compiled info into a spreadsheet for each caliber from my own work and some of the sources.  Whenever I see wide discrepancies, I start researching more before doing any loading.

    Oregon

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