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Author Topic: H4227 for handguns  (Read 4959 times)

scarville

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H4227 for handguns
« on: July 23, 2014, 07:32:40 pm »
I noticed that Hodgdon has reloading data for 38 and 357 using H4227.  Has anyone here used it for handgun cartridges?  I've always thought of H4227 as a rifle powder but it seems to be available and the pistol powders are not.
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    JesseL

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    Re: H4227 for handguns
    « Reply #1 on: July 23, 2014, 07:45:46 pm »
    I've used it for .500 S&W. It's at the extremely fast end for a rifle powder - maybe suitable for .22 Hornet.

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    strangelittleman

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    Re: H4227 for handguns
    « Reply #2 on: July 23, 2014, 09:19:15 pm »
     I've used it and IMR 4227 for .357 Mag. It is a very good for 140 gr and up. I have used it on 110 and 125gr bullets as well. It is a very good powder for .357 very powerful, but has an enormous flash and terrible blast.
     
     I believe it may very well be very damaging, in the long term, to the top strap of an revolver when loading for the lighter bullets, that's probably why Speer only published data for 140 and up.

      I have several Speer loading manuals that feature loads for 4227. I have not seen any 4227 load data for .38 Spl however. If you would like some of the old data from my books or data I worked up myself for the 110 & 125gr bullets let me know and I'll PM it to you.
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    scarville

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    Re: H4227 for handguns
    « Reply #3 on: July 23, 2014, 11:27:22 pm »
    Thanks for the advice.

    I generally stick with 158 gr in 38 and 357.  Guess I'm kind of old fashioned  :).  Hopefully the regular pistol powder will start becoming available soon and I won't have to worry about 4227  (though I may get a pound just to try out).
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    strangelittleman

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    Re: H4227 for handguns
    « Reply #4 on: July 24, 2014, 11:02:05 am »
      I too, like the 158sfor all my .38Spl loads. I like the 158s for .357Mag (both jacketed and hard cast/gas ckecked) for anything1,250 and under, but I'd say my favorite weight for full power Magnum loads are the 140grs by the various makers. I think they have the right balance of weight and velocity...man will they knock the hell out of a coyote from both 6.5" Blackhawk and Marlin carbine!

      Here's some other small rifle and shotshell powders I have had good, safe performance in magnum pistol ctgs, in addition to H4227 and IMR4227: Blue Dot, HS-6 & HS-7, H110, Win 571 and Vihtavuori's N350 & N110.

      For the .38Spl: Blue Dot, Hi- SKOR 700-X, SR7625/4756, Red Dot, Universal Clays, WSL, Win 571 and Vihta's N320, N340.

      I've used all the above with very to great results, but to be frank, my favorite all around powder for the handgun calibers I've loaded for is Blue Dot, originally a shotshell powder, it's excellent in 9mmx19, .38Spl and .357Mag, which I've loaded extensively. I've also loaded a bit of .38 Super w/ it and attained excellent results. When I was reloading, Blue Dot became my "go to" powder for all my handgun loads.
      I might add that my son also has excellent results w/ Blue Dot in .38Spl, .45ACP and .45 Colt.

         
       
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    scarville

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    Re: H4227 for handguns
    « Reply #5 on: July 24, 2014, 12:56:40 pm »
    Except for the FTX, my limited experiments with the 140 gr bullets in 357 mirrors your experience.  The Hornady HP-XTP looks like it could be a formidable load out to about 120 or a bit yards from a carbine.  Unfortunately, the latest shortage interfered with any serious load development.  Still, I am really curious to see how Alliant 300-MP performs.

    Thanks for the pointer to Blue Dot.  Looks promising.
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    strangelittleman

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    Re: H4227 for handguns
    « Reply #6 on: July 24, 2014, 09:14:54 pm »
      Alliant 300-MP? Hmm....I've never tried it...Let me know how that performs!
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    scarville

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    Re: H4227 for handguns
    « Reply #7 on: July 25, 2014, 12:37:17 pm »
    Alliant 300-MP? Hmm....I've never tried it...Let me know how that performs!

    i haven't tried it yet with the 140 gr XTP bullets but here are some results using 158 gr XTP-FP from a marlin 1894C.  Groups were about 2"at 100 yards from a bench with a 2.5x28 IER scope.  The rifle used in this test has Ballard rifling but later tests with an older model with a micro-groove barrel had no noticeable difference in velocity or group size.

    http://parabarbarian.blogspot.com/2012/05/follow-up-report-on-alliant-300mp.html
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    RMc

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    Re: H4227 for handguns
    « Reply #8 on: July 25, 2014, 10:01:42 pm »
    Heavy for caliber bullets tame the muzzle flash of 4227 and tame the noise signature down a bit.

    Here is some load development info with 4227 and Beartooth 185 FNGC bullets.  This 1100fps/4" bbl. load should work quite well with bullets of similar seating depth.

    https://wethearmed.com/reloading-and-handloading/185-fngc-load-for-the-4'-357-magnum/
    « Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 10:25:03 pm by RMc »
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    strangelittleman

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    Re: H4227 for handguns
    « Reply #9 on: July 26, 2014, 11:49:00 am »
      That's an excellent thread RMc. I had a similar load w/ the 160gr extra hard cast SWC gas checked @1,200fps that worked very well w/ 4227. When I get around to setting back up, I'll certainly give your 180gr/4227 round a try. I too like thehard cast, full profile meplats, especially w/ gas check. I think you've come up w/ an excellent load-up!
    Semper Gumby.....Always Flexible.
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    Re: H4227 for handguns
    « Reply #10 on: September 03, 2014, 11:15:47 pm »
    4227 will work very well in handguns anywhere 296/H110/2400 are appropriate choices.   Basically, anywhere you use a heavy for caliber slug in a magnum cartridge, and want a full power load.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: H4227 for handguns
    « Reply #11 on: September 03, 2014, 11:37:36 pm »
      That's an excellent thread RMc. I had a similar load w/ the 160gr extra hard cast SWC gas checked @1,200fps that worked very well w/ 4227. When I get around to setting back up, I'll certainly give your 180gr/4227 round a try. I too like thehard cast, full profile meplats, especially w/ gas check. I think you've come up w/ an excellent load-up!
    Agreed.  I remember this thread now that I've seen it again.  I thought at the time it looked like a good load for a Marlin lever action carbine but neglected to ask if anyone had tried out in one of those guns.
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