Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.

Author Topic: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer  (Read 5619 times)

StevenTing

  • WTA Staff
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4651

  • Offline
Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
« on: January 21, 2012, 11:02:40 pm »
So I started using my press today and was going very slow.  I had my case feeder running and it seemed like every 3rd round, the primer wouldn't load properly.  So, I checked every bullet before I put in the bullet.  I load 100 rounds and thought it was very strange.  Upon further inspection, all of the brass I had problems with were Federal .45 Auto brass.  Looking at it, the primer pocket was slightly smaller.

In the past, I would load all 45's with Large pistol Primers.  These primers looked like they use Small pistol primers.  Is this normal?  I'm a little pissed as I have 350 pieces of brass like that which I can't use.  Luckily I have about 1500 pieces of other brass that are "normal".

If you look at the picture, the casing on the right is just slightly smaller than the one on the left.   :banghead
Utah

WeTheArmed.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    ksuguy

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5000

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 11:07:45 pm »
    I suppose you could always separate it out and buy a case of small pistol primers.
    Kansas

    StevenTing

    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4651

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 11:10:20 pm »
    I did separate it out.  Thought about loading the small primers, but that means changing the primer wheel to the small size.  I just got the press last week and haven't gotten to all of the details of swapping things out.   I'm thinking about seeing if I can find someone to trade locally.  I hate change.  It reminds me too much of Obama.
    Utah

    JesseL

    • Gun Mangler
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 12451

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 11:15:44 pm »
    While you're sorting your .45 brass, separate out any Winchester Winclean brass too. Their lead free primers require a bigger flash hole, which won't jam up your press but might cause pressure issues with loads worked up with brass with normal sized holes and will probably open up the SD on your velocities too.
    Arizona

    StevenTing

    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4651

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 11:49:04 pm »
    While you're sorting your .45 brass, separate out any Winchester Winclean brass too. Their lead free primers require a bigger flash hole, which won't jam up your press but might cause pressure issues with loads worked up with brass with normal sized holes and will probably open up the SD on your velocities too.

    You wouldn't by chance have a picture of this brass?  I sorted once.  I'll have to go through again but not sure what to look for.
    Utah

    GeorgeHill

    • Co-Founder
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 22121
    • The Ogre
      • MadOgre.com

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 11:54:48 pm »
    Yup.  Small Pistol Primers. 
    South CarolinaCo-Founder of WeTheArmed.com
    The Ogre from MadOgre.com.

    Vires et Honestas
    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
    http://www.madogre.com/

    JesseL

    • Gun Mangler
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 12451

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 11:56:11 pm »
    You wouldn't by chance have a picture of this brass?  I sorted once.  I'll have to go through again but not sure what to look for.

    Headstamp is apparently the same as normal Winchester brass:


    To sort it would require checking the inside with a flashlight or depriming separately from the rest of your loading process.



    I've seen it claimed that the larger flash hole makes no difference, but I remain skeptical.
    Arizona

    FMJ

    • 7.62
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 14344
    • "A good black coffee is like a good liquid cigar"

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #7 on: January 22, 2012, 12:09:49 am »
    Never knew .45 Auto could work using "small pistol."
    CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

    THE NORSEMAN

    • To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. - Richard Henry Lee
    • Moderator
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5071

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #8 on: January 22, 2012, 12:10:36 am »
    Fun, isn't it Steve? >:(  I've had trouble with 38 Special S&B being measurably super tight.  Gave it all away.  My rule is, if the standard components listed in the books don't fit, it's out of here.
    This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

    cpaspr

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 2266

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 04:44:32 pm »
    Oh, piffle!

    I have probably 1500 to 2000 .45 ACP already primed, and now I see that picture from Jesse.

    Flashlight time I guess.

    At least I don't have to worry about the small primer issue on those.
    Oregon

    StevenTing

    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4651

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 04:49:57 pm »
    Oh, piffle!

    I have probably 1500 to 2000 .45 ACP already primed, and now I see that picture from Jesse.

    Flashlight time I guess.

    At least I don't have to worry about the small primer issue on those.

    Anyone want to buy some small primer .45 ACP Brass? 
    As far as the hole size in the picture, I'm not sure if that really makes a difference.  Besides measuring velocity, is there any other way to see if there is a difference?  I guess it's time I start hitting google again.
    Utah

    Outbreak

    • NRA Basic Pistol Instructor, Certified Sig P-Series Armorer
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 11465
    • Outbreak Monkey ^

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 08:11:05 pm »
    There is definitely a market for small-primer .45ACP brass. The primer system is the toughest part to change on Dillon machines, so many people don't want to, just like you. Only they are set up for small primers, so this brass is desireable to them.
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    THE NORSEMAN

    • To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. - Richard Henry Lee
    • Moderator
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5071

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #12 on: January 23, 2012, 10:16:53 pm »
    Quote
    As far as the hole size in the picture, I'm not sure if that really makes a difference.
      Shouldn't really be much difference, somewhere around 20-30 fps one way or the other is all.  Enough that it's to be "match grade" ammo, you'll notice it, but for IDPA or UDPL use it should be fine either way, as long as you're not at the extreme top end of the loading data.

    Quote
    Besides measuring velocity, is there any other way to see if there is a difference?

    Other than very expensive pressure testing equipment, not that I'm aware of.
    This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

    StevenTing

    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4651

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #13 on: January 23, 2012, 11:37:59 pm »
    There is definitely a market for small-primer .45ACP brass. The primer system is the toughest part to change on Dillon machines, so many people don't want to, just like you. Only they are set up for small primers, so this brass is desireable to them.

    If you have any direction, I'd like to know.  I'm going to check some of the usual places.

    Utah

    StevenTing

    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4651

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #14 on: January 26, 2012, 01:07:36 pm »
    Well, I sold the brass locally for $10.  I know it was a firesale price, but it's not doing me any good.  The guy I'm selling it told me that right now it's almost 50/50 on pocket size.  Said he bought 7000 cases from a local firing range and 3000 of them had the smaller primer pocket.
    Utah

    Outbreak

    • NRA Basic Pistol Instructor, Certified Sig P-Series Armorer
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 11465
    • Outbreak Monkey ^

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 08:11:30 pm »
    Glad to hear it!
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    mnw42

    • Minister of Silly Walks
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 2267
    • NRA Cert. RSO, Pistol & Shotgun Instructor

    • Offline
    Re: Federal Brass Primer Size - Bummer
    « Reply #16 on: January 27, 2012, 02:22:20 am »
    The last time I bought Federal .45 ACP the Champion line had the small primers, but everything else had large.  That may have changed.
    Pennsylvania"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." -Book -- "All war is deception" -Sun Tzu
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodies -- omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina -- History is scary - It keeps on coming true! -- Ni!

    Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.