Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.

Author Topic: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading  (Read 10173 times)

Outbreak

  • NRA Basic Pistol Instructor, Certified Sig P-Series Armorer
  • WTA Staff
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 11465
  • Outbreak Monkey ^

  • Offline
.40S&W vs 10mm reloading
« on: January 08, 2011, 02:03:03 pm »
I just got a set of dies to start reloading .40S&W, and I have a question.

Every set of dies I've seen are labeled .40S&W/10mm Auto. I realize that .40 is just a shortened 10mm case. Are there any adjustments I need to make to set the dies for the shorter cartridge? Since the instructions that came with the dies, as well as the Speer manual don't mention anything, I'm guessing that the dies are made to work on any lengths between the max for 10mm and the min for .40.

TexasOutbreak

I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

WeTheArmed.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    xsquidgator

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1861

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #1 on: January 08, 2011, 03:06:17 pm »
    You'll have to adjust the dies however they need to be for whichever it is you're reloading, regardless of whether they'll do 40 or 10mm.  Resizing die such that it just touches the shell plate, seating die to get the right depth of bullet into the case, and factory crimp die if you use one per the instructions (screw it down until it meets the case mouth, then 1/4 to 1/2 turn more).  After you set it the first time that's it, unless you use the same dies for 10mm in which case you have to change it whenever you change cartridge.  I think it's just like loading 38 and 357 with the same set of dies.  Leave it set up for one or the other and do a big run of one before switching it over to the other.

    Outbreak

    • NRA Basic Pistol Instructor, Certified Sig P-Series Armorer
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 11465
    • Outbreak Monkey ^

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #2 on: January 08, 2011, 03:45:00 pm »
    Thanks. I followed the directions in 2 books and the ones that came with the dies. They all said to leave just enough room between the carbide resizing die and the ram to see just a hair of daylight because you don't want the shell holder to actually hit a carbide die.

    The problem now is that my finished cartridges aren't straight walled anymore. They look like an hourglass. Wide around the bullet, narrower through the middle, and wide near the head where the resizing die doesn't touch. They'll drop into the Lyman case gauge I have all the way until about an eighth inch from the case head, and stop. Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong, or suggestions.
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    xsquidgator

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1861

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #3 on: January 08, 2011, 04:52:36 pm »
    Thanks. I followed the directions in 2 books and the ones that came with the dies. They all said to leave just enough room between the carbide resizing die and the ram to see just a hair of daylight because you don't want the shell holder to actually hit a carbide die.

    The problem now is that my finished cartridges aren't straight walled anymore. They look like an hourglass. Wide around the bullet, narrower through the middle, and wide near the head where the resizing die doesn't touch. They'll drop into the Lyman case gauge I have all the way until about an eighth inch from the case head, and stop. Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong, or suggestions.

    Are you using Lee dies (not that it matters I don't think just curious- most of my dies are Lee except some rifle ones)

    A possibility could be that the brass isn't being resized all the way down to the case head, even though you're following the instructions or even if you do have the resizing die touch the shell holder.  (My experience with 40SW reloads in a Lone Wolf barrel might be similar to what's going on with your case  -->https://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,11984.0.html)
    Nutshell version - the tech guys at Lone Wolf said that resizing dies don't actually resize all the way down, which might be a problem sometimes such as some people say happens with brass shot in a Glock.  You can probably fix it by "push through" full length sizing the 40SW brass (not full length resizing in the sense it means with rifle cases), and if you have a taper crimp die, you can remove the insides from it, and use it to perform this push-through-full-length-sizing function, without having to spend $30-$60 on a special push-through die.

    I don't have a case gauge, but using my Lone Wolf barrel as a gauge, and having had a couple of range sessions since trying this, it fixed 95% of this problem if not all of it.  At least this method doesn't cost anything to try...

    Outbreak

    • NRA Basic Pistol Instructor, Certified Sig P-Series Armorer
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 11465
    • Outbreak Monkey ^

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #4 on: January 08, 2011, 05:06:11 pm »
    That's what it looks like. It's not resizing all the way down.

    How do I use a taper crimp die as a push through resizer?
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    RandySBreth

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 497
    • Khaaaaaannnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      • Ozark Outdoor Journal.

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #5 on: January 08, 2011, 05:44:33 pm »
    They may not fit in the case gauge, but do they fit in the chamber of your.40, and if so does that gun's maker rhyme with "Block"?
    My website: http://ozarkoutdoorjournal.blogspot.com/


    "To be great is to be misunderstood" Ralph Waldo Emerson.

    Outbreak

    • NRA Basic Pistol Instructor, Certified Sig P-Series Armorer
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 11465
    • Outbreak Monkey ^

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #6 on: January 08, 2011, 05:52:40 pm »
    I don't own a Glock, but they do shoot just fine in one. I have a Sig 226. The loaded cartridges fit in the barrel and headspace just fine.
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    xsquidgator

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1861

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #7 on: January 08, 2011, 07:06:22 pm »
    That's what it looks like. It's not resizing all the way down.

    How do I use a taper crimp die as a push through resizer?

    In this thread
    https://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,11984.0.html

    there's a discussion of the problem.  Somewhere in the original post is a link to a youtube video demonstrating it.  Basically take it apart and remove the metal sleeve from the insides.  Push cases through from the bottom.  I recommend using at least a little case lube because sometimes (like doing a Glocked case) it's squeezing down more and you'll need the lube. 

    Outbreak

    • NRA Basic Pistol Instructor, Certified Sig P-Series Armorer
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 11465
    • Outbreak Monkey ^

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #8 on: January 08, 2011, 08:48:43 pm »
    Read that post, watched the video, lubed up 90 cases and tried it out.

    You can certainly tell which ones have been Glocked up. They're pretty tough, even with plenty of lube. But they all spec now. Thanks for the help!

    I got some loading to do.
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    cpaspr

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 2266

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #9 on: January 09, 2011, 12:43:41 pm »
    Outbreak -

    Following the procedure in the video will get rid of the overside case-head, but you also mentioned that your shells are bulging at the top where the bullet is loaded.  Are they still within spec?  If not, you should A) run them back through the re-assembled Lee FCD and B) check your loose projectiles for correct diameter before reloading. 

    I had some plated .357 projectiles a while back that ended up a bit oversize.  Didn't realize they were oversized when I reloaded them.  When it came time to shoot them, they were a bit sticky going into the cylinder and I had to push them the last eighth of an inch or so with my thumb.  I thought they were just sticking because the cylinder was dirty.  On the final cylinder of the day, a friend was actually shooting, and I was standing right behind him wacthing.  The first round exited the barrel.  After that I assumed he was simply missing the tin can he was shooting at, and since the ground was damp we just weren't seeing the impacts.  I was very wrong, and we were both very, very  lucky.  The next 5 stacked up, with the 2nd round ending up a 1/4" from the front of the barrel and the 6th an inch from the back of the barrel.  Whether because of air pressure between bullets helping to slow the next one down, each was slightly bigger than the one before it, or simply divine interference (my personal belief), there was no kaboom.  And we didn't attempt to shoot that gun any further that day.  Only when I went to clean it a few days later did I discover the issue.  $110 later, it shoots fine again.  But, after that I checked every single round I had on hand for drop in/drop out fit in the cylinder.  I found half a dozen that wouldn't fit that I now need to disassemble and recycle the bullets.

    The point of that long story is this:  make sure your loaded rounds are in spec.  If the bullets are oversize, the results are potentially catastrophic.  For that reason alone, I love the factory crimp die as a final check for either oversize factory bullets, or oversize personally cast bullets.
    Oregon

    Outbreak

    • NRA Basic Pistol Instructor, Certified Sig P-Series Armorer
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 11465
    • Outbreak Monkey ^

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #10 on: January 09, 2011, 01:39:25 pm »
    After the push-through resizing, I've been checking every loaded cartridge as it comes out of the press in my case gauge. All have correct headspace, bullet seating and OAL. Three did not gauge, and they've been set aside to be disassembled.

    I didn't think about measuring the bullets, though. They gauge fine, but I'll go hit them with the calipers.

    [footsteps to the garage. elevator music. footsteps returning to computer.]

    The bullets show .4005 on the calipers. Is 5 ten-thousandths enough to cause a problem?
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    dstocum

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 281

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #11 on: January 10, 2011, 04:46:16 am »
    After the push-through resizing, I've been checking every loaded cartridge as it comes out of the press in my case gauge. All have correct headspace, bullet seating and OAL. Three did not gauge, and they've been set aside to be disassembled.

    I didn't think about measuring the bullets, though. They gauge fine, but I'll go hit them with the calipers.

    [footsteps to the garage. elevator music. footsteps returning to computer.]

    The bullets show .4005 on the calipers. Is 5 ten-thousandths enough to cause a problem?

    No, that's fine. The bullets are supposed to be 0.401" anyway. They have to be quite a bit oversize--relatively speaking--to cause major problems, although you have to be much more careful with plated or jacketed bullets than plain lead.

    With certain brass, my reloads show the same slightly bulged look where the bullet is inside the case. I've seen it in 45 ACP and 44 Magnum. As long as they chamber properly, it doesn't matter. I've shot thousands of cartridges like that, since about half my Winchester headstamp 45 ACP brass does it.
    New York

    Outbreak

    • NRA Basic Pistol Instructor, Certified Sig P-Series Armorer
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 11465
    • Outbreak Monkey ^

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #12 on: January 10, 2011, 09:15:32 am »
    30 rounds went down the pipe yesterday with zero issues. I still have to inspect the brass, but I had the target at about 3yds to make sure I saw bullet holes after every shot. They work.
    TexasOutbreak

    I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    THE NORSEMAN

    • To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. - Richard Henry Lee
    • Moderator
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5071

    • Offline
    Re: .40S&W vs 10mm reloading
    « Reply #13 on: January 10, 2011, 10:27:24 pm »
    A slight bulge around the bullet (assuming quality brass) is what you want.  Fairly high and consistent neck tension is a good thing in most pistol rounds according to my chrono and targets.
    This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

    Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.