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Author Topic: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.  (Read 11673 times)

MTK20

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NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
« on: October 20, 2019, 11:01:49 pm »
Texas
Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    coelacanth

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #1 on: October 22, 2019, 12:49:11 am »
    Leave it to Lynn Thompson to make lemonade when New York hands him lemons.  If you absolutely, positively must have a concrete example of a stupid law the best place to look for it is New York.   :facepalm
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    MTK20

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 01:20:16 am »
    Leave it to Lynn Thompson to make lemonade when New York hands him lemons.  If you absolutely, positively must have a concrete example of a stupid law the best place to look for it is New York.   :facepalm

    Agreed. I noticed that Lynn is starting to get a little long in the tooth (or maybe grey is the right phrase). I thought he was well spoken here and he even seemed amiable. Like a bladed Santa Claus  :cool .

    I hope he sells a s___ ton of his products. I love that trench knife, btw and I'll have to search and see if he makes a genuine steel one.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 01:57:00 am »
    I believe they do.  Several versions as I recall - depending on blade style and blade steel. 
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    RMc

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 06:47:58 am »
    In other news:

    "Crime experts, politicians, and religious leaders are calling on the U.K. government to ban the sale of pointed kitchen knives, KentOnline reported, to stem the tide of knife crime there, which has risen 80 percent since 2014."    :facepalm

    https://www.theblaze.com/news/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime-brutal-mockery-follows
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    MTK20

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #5 on: October 22, 2019, 04:37:18 pm »
    In other news:

    "Crime experts, politicians, and religious leaders are calling on the U.K. government to ban the sale of pointed kitchen knives, KentOnline reported, to stem the tide of knife crime there, which has risen 80 percent since 2014."    :facepalm

    https://www.theblaze.com/news/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime-brutal-mockery-follows

    Fools! The only way to stop crime is to remove the citizens thumbs. If they can't hold weapons, they can't assault people  :neener .

    Hopefully this joke never becomes legislation, but if we continue to go down this line of thinking...  :hmm .
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    LowKey

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #6 on: October 22, 2019, 05:06:34 pm »
     :banghead
    Apparently these idiots think no one can obtain plexiglass and a belt sander. :facepalm

    You know, "Escape From New York" is starting to look like a very nice blueprint for the future there.

    wyatt

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #7 on: October 22, 2019, 06:06:07 pm »
    Fools! The only way to stop crime is to remove the citizens thumbs. If they can't hold weapons, they can't assault people  :neener .

    Hopefully this joke never becomes legislation, but if we continue to go down this line of thinking...  :hmm .

    Isn't there an example in history where the first two fingers of the right hand were cut off to prevent archers from drawing a bow?

    coelacanth

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #8 on: October 22, 2019, 07:04:34 pm »
    Yes, but it didn't work.  The archers developed work-arounds and were able to continue practice and training young archers.  Sort of like what is going to happen with the New York laws.  The whole Cuomo family is an embarrassment to Americans of Italian descent - the gift that just keeps on giving. :facepalm
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    MTK20

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #9 on: October 22, 2019, 11:52:35 pm »
    Yes, but it didn't work.  The archers developed work-arounds and were able to continue practice and training young archers.  Sort of like what is going to happen with the New York laws.  The whole Cuomo family is an embarrassment to Americans of Italian descent - the gift that just keeps on giving. :facepalm


     :thumbup1
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Plebian

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #10 on: October 23, 2019, 09:52:28 am »
    Isn't there an example in history where the first two fingers of the right hand were cut off to prevent archers from drawing a bow?

    Historians believe that is were 'flipping the bird' originated, which the English do with the first two fingers. It was a show, by longbowman, that they still had their two draw fingers. Which were the two fingers the French would remove from captured English longbowman.
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    coelacanth

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #11 on: October 23, 2019, 03:28:49 pm »
    Once I learned how to use a thumb ring release it improved my shooting but I'm not sure how practical it would have been on a heavy English yew longbow.  I'm pretty sure the knives and daggers carried by those long bowmen would be illegal in New York also.  That stuff would have them crapping their knickers in the "Empire State" these days.  :cool  The mere sight of a medieval English long bowman in full kit would probably result in widespread, reflexive pearl clutching and probably a rollout of the SWAT team.  :facepalm
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    LowKey

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #12 on: October 23, 2019, 05:24:02 pm »
    The long bowman's marksmanship would also be better than that of most of the NYPD. :coffee
    Once I learned how to use a thumb ring release it improved my shooting but I'm not sure how practical it would have been on a heavy English yew longbow.  I'm pretty sure the knives and daggers carried by those long bowmen would be illegal in New York also.  That stuff would have them crapping their knickers in the "Empire State" these days.  :cool  The mere sight of a medieval English long bowman in full kit would probably result in widespread, reflexive pearl clutching and probably a rollout of the SWAT team.  :facepalm

    coelacanth

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #13 on: October 23, 2019, 06:01:10 pm »
    Yup.  I'm guessing most anything close to the size of a human torso inside a hundred yards would be toast.  Might be interesting to see the results of an iron bodkin point on the end of a clothyard shaft driven from a heavy long bow vs. modern ballistic armor.   :hmm   
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Plebian

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #14 on: October 23, 2019, 08:37:38 pm »
    Once I learned how to use a thumb ring release it improved my shooting but I'm not sure how practical it would have been on a heavy English yew longbow.  I'm pretty sure the knives and daggers carried by those long bowmen would be illegal in New York also.  That stuff would have them crapping their knickers in the "Empire State" these days.  :cool  The mere sight of a medieval English long bowman in full kit would probably result in widespread, reflexive pearl clutching and probably a rollout of the SWAT team.  :facepalm

    Thumb rings were used with warbow weights by many middle-eastern bowman and Asians. They used draw weights well into the normal for english longbow(140 pounds or so for the bows on the Mary Rose shipwreck.)

    If we are testing bodkins(assume long bodkins not plate cutters from later periods) on modern soft ballistic armor. It would likely be clean penetration perhaps with even a clean exit.

    I know from personal experience playing with an extra vest that a good rondel dagger goes to the hilt on IIIa with little effort required. So since a long bodkin is basically the same shape and characteristics as my rondel dagger. It should pass through at least one side with ease.   
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    coelacanth

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #15 on: October 24, 2019, 06:25:36 pm »
    Thanks for the insight.  I assumed most of the modern stuff would be defeated unless there was a plate carrier.  Those arrows were pretty heavy and the long bodkins weren't particularly delicate either.  Hell, you could probably nail the driver of a modern patrol car through the driver's side door with one.   :cool
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    MTK20

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #16 on: October 24, 2019, 06:35:01 pm »
    Thanks for the insight.  I assumed most of the modern stuff would be defeated unless there was a plate carrier.  Those arrows were pretty heavy and the long bodkins weren't particularly delicate either.  Hell, you could probably nail the driver of a modern patrol car through the driver's side door with one.   :cool

    Really!?!  :o

    Idk anything about ancient weaponry, so that's pretty terrifying!
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #17 on: October 24, 2019, 07:00:29 pm »
    You might not kill him but I'm betting a heavy war arrow with the short bodkin point fired from a heavy war bow (130# draw weight + or -) inside of 50 yards would penetrate the body of a modern car.  There is an account from the 12th or 13th century in which a noble describes a battle against the Welsh and describes an incident he witnessed.  A Welsh longbowman fired a heavy arrow against one of the mounted men at arms and the arrow pierced the iron armored thigh of the knight completely through both sides, penetrated the leather skirt worn by mounted knights, penetrated the seat of the saddle and went deep enough into the body of the war horse to kill it.  Lucky shot?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  :hmm
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Plebian

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #18 on: October 25, 2019, 11:10:57 am »
    Really!?!  :o

    Idk anything about ancient weaponry, so that's pretty terrifying!

    A decent hunting bow with blast through a car door with ease. Arrow do not have much kinetic energy, but they have a decent amount of momentum and all that pressure is behind a small point. So they penetrate surprisingly well.
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    Plebian

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #19 on: October 25, 2019, 11:16:09 am »


    Great little video with real armorers, bowyers, equipment and historian. Todd knows his stuff not from just studying it in a museum, but he constructs the gear from museum quality exact replicas down to peasant level knives.
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    MTK20

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #20 on: October 25, 2019, 05:08:12 pm »


    Great little video with real armorers, bowyers, equipment and historian. Todd knows his stuff not from just studying it in a museum, but he constructs the gear from museum quality exact replicas down to peasant level knives.

    I watched it. If was a fun watch, although the arrows never got a chance to demonstrate their abilities. Every one was deflected and destroyed.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: NY to Ban Non-Detectable Knives.
    « Reply #21 on: October 26, 2019, 12:03:45 am »
    Yup.  Good video.  Thanks for posting it.  :thumbup1   Still, that plate was considerably thicker than a modern car door so I imagine the archer would have been punching through one of those with regularity.  :hmm
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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