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Weapons and Gear => Non-Firearm Weapons => Topic started by: trucker3573 on January 15, 2019, 08:05:28 pm

Title: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: trucker3573 on January 15, 2019, 08:05:28 pm
I believe Michigan recently lifted any ban on auto knives. My work often carries me into Ohio and Indiana. Does anyone know if it is legal to carry an auto knife in Ohio and Indiana thank you

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Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: trucker3573 on January 15, 2019, 08:10:49 pm
Actually I'm not even sure concealed carry is legal in Michigan can I conceal carry an auto knife anywhere I do have a concealed weapons permit valid in Michigan which is recognized by Ohio and Indiana. I do not however have any clue if this only applies to firearms. Never really thought about it

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Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: Mikee5star on January 15, 2019, 09:08:02 pm
There are a couple of knife rights organizations out there and if I were you I would do some searching and check carefully.  Also I would look at your company handbook for job rules concerning "weapons".  Even if you are an independent contractor some companies still hold you to their employee rules.  Also some companies consider auto, or assisted opening knives as weapons, where a basic friction knife or lock blade of the same size and shape is considered a tool.

You might want to check this out.  https://kniferights.org/resources/legal-blade/

I have not looked at this app, so no promises.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: coelacanth on January 15, 2019, 09:48:28 pm
Beat me to it.  This one is also helpful.  www.akti.org
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: Mikee5star on January 16, 2019, 01:55:21 am
That appears to be a much better knife laws listing.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: freeman1685 on January 16, 2019, 04:13:57 am
My advice?  Never carry any knife that you are particularly fond of, while travelling abroad.  Carry one you won't mind losing (or having confiscated).  With a blade length of less than 3 in.

I know that some places (NY, for instance) have a stipulation for auto/assisted openers, they're allowed for individuals with only one limb/hand.

Though, if you're coming to AZ, feel free to carry anything (knife or gun) you want.  :neener

I can walk down Central Avenue, in broad daylight, with this on my hip.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: MTK20 on January 16, 2019, 01:33:02 pm
My advice?  Never carry any knife that you are particularly fond of, while travelling abroad.  Carry one you won't mind losing (or having confiscated).  With a blade length of less than 3 in.

I know that some places (NY, for instance) have a stipulation for auto/assisted openers, they're allowed for individuals with only one limb/hand.

Though, if you're coming to AZ, feel free to carry anything (knife or gun) you want.  :neener

I can walk down Central Avenue, in broad daylight, with this on my hip.

Bench made  :cool . Expensive tastes  ;) .
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: freeman1685 on January 16, 2019, 03:32:13 pm
Bench made  :cool . Expensive tastes  ;) .

You have no idea.  Benchmade, Tag Heuer,  Armani.  Taste, yeah...  Budget, not so much.  :neener

Funny story though, I didn't pay for that.  I actually got paid...  To sharpen it.  Handed it to the customer, and off he happily trotted.  About 10 minutes later, one of the townies came walking up, with that in his hand, asking if anyone knew who's it was.  I said yeah, he gave it to me, and I've been hanging on to it ever since, on the off chance the guy ever shows up to claim it.  That was 07 or 08?  In Crown King.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: MTK20 on January 16, 2019, 03:44:16 pm
You have no idea.  Benchmade, Tag Heuer,  Armani.  Taste, yeah...  Budget, not so much.  :neener

Funny story though, I didn't pay for that.  I actually got paid...  To sharpen it.  Handed it to the customer, and off he happily trotted.  About 10 minutes later, one of the townies came walking up, with that in his hand, asking if anyone knew who's it was.  I said yeah, he gave it to me, and I've been hanging on to it ever since, on the off chance the guy ever shows up to claim it.  That was 07 or 08?  In Crown King.

Poor guy. I'm surprised he didn't come back to ask you if, on the off chance, you saw it  :hmm . Common sense dictates to retrace all of your steps.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: coelacanth on January 16, 2019, 03:55:43 pm
Common sense is in short supply of late - even in the Bradshaw Mountains around the booming metropolis of Crown King where its a handy thing to have.   :cool     
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: MTK20 on January 16, 2019, 05:28:08 pm
Common sense is in short supply of late - even in the Bradshaw Mountains around the booming metropolis of Crown King where its a handy thing to have.   :cool   

You have to remember that I am not familiar with the area, but I looked up the city on a hunch. I laughed my ass off when I Googled the population of Crown King  :rotfl  :thumbup1 .

When it comes to common sense, I was suggesting it is a good thing to have. What I wasn't suggesting was that I had any myself  :neener .
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: freeman1685 on January 16, 2019, 06:43:36 pm
Poor guy. I'm surprised he didn't come back to ask you if, on the off chance, you saw it  :hmm . Common sense dictates to retrace all of your steps.

The customer in question was not a resident, or I would have simply returned it to him.  As I heard it, when he retrieved the knife, one of his friends had a crash on a quad, severely fractured his leg, and had to be air evaced.  He (the customer) was left with retrieving the friend's, and his own belongings from their campsite, etc.  And then make the trip, on his quad, down the hill to their vehicle.  Bit of a mad dash, which is how he lost the knife.

This is why I say, unless it's absolutely necessary, like a hunting trip or such, "Don't carry a knife you would be pissed about losing, when travelling."
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: MTK20 on January 16, 2019, 06:52:41 pm
The customer in question was not a resident, or I would have simply returned it to him.  As I heard it, when he retrieved the knife, one of his friends had a crash on a quad, severely fractured his leg, and had to be air evaced.  He (the customer) was left with retrieving the friend's, and his own belongings from their campsite, etc.  And then make the trip, on his quad, down the hill to their vehicle.  Bit of a mad dash, which is how he lost the knife.

This is why I say, unless it's absolutely necessary, like a hunting trip or such, "Don't carry a knife you would be pissed about losing, when travelling."

 :thumbup1
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: coelacanth on January 16, 2019, 08:51:06 pm
Glad you had a bit of a grin at that.  :cool   Usually when somebody asks how to get to Crown King the answer is "You can't get there from here.".

 :P
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: luke213(adamsholsters) on January 17, 2019, 10:06:28 am
So being a Michigan guy you'd think I'd know the answer to this but I don't:) That said I do know a few bits of knife law in MI as well as CPL law.

So when the law switched to CPL rather than CCW it no longer covered virtually anything but a firearm, so knives are not a part of a CPL in Michigan. Knife laws are weird at best because we don't have premption within the state law so locals can pass laws that are more strict than state law getting you into hot water. State law as far as length I believe still has a 3in. blade limitation but the way it's worded indicated that "intention" plays a role in the law. IE you can't carry a blade longer than 3in. with ill intent or the intent to commit a crime(I know craziness), so there is a legal argument to be made that a blade longer is legal in the state. However that doesn't cover local laws which may be more restrictive. From memory a suburb of Grand Rapids has a 2in. blade limit or 1.5in. something silly.

On auto knives I've heard they are now legal I don't own one and never really thought much about it so I never read the laws about them now either. One of these days when time permits I'll research it but I'm quite happy with spring assist for my daily carry setups so it's not a "need" more of a want because I couldn't own them for years. As far as states outside of Michigan that's an unknown for me my info is too dated now to be useful.

Luke
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: sqlbullet on January 17, 2019, 11:08:47 am
Up-side of an good auto is less futzing with the knife when you are on the top of the ladder and suddenly need the knife for some reason, and since you are clinging to the ladder with one hand you have to open the knife with the other and the lock doesn't fully engage on your un-assisted or assisted knife and then the blade that you keep pretty sharp closes unexpectedly on your fingers, evidenced by the dried blood still on said ladder.  Don't ask, it was not a happy day, though the cut was not bad enough to force me to seek medical care.

Since that dark day I have picked up a Benchmade Adamas and carry it pretty much everyday.  About twice a year the safety gets left or moved off in my pocket and the knife opens.  As long as you have the clip on the correct side for the pocket you carry in this is a non-issue as the blade can't open far anyway.

I have become a big fan of auto-opening knives as I find the positive opening and lock with one hand to be a big benefit.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: coelacanth on January 17, 2019, 12:24:43 pm
Glad you're OK.  I find most automatics to be less than reliable designs for most heavy use applications and, as you point out, prone to unintentional deployment which can create its own unique set of problems.  I take my cue on work knives from the electricians and millwrights that often work in very challenging environments.  The usually opt for some sort of belt pouch with a dedicated pocket for either a small fixed blade utility knife or conventional blade.  It deploys easily, doesn't need to be opened or closed and it can be reached without looking at it.  A lot of those guys have a small pouch dedicated to the knife and a small pair of heavy duty shears as well.  Lanyards are popular as well.

Neck knives in dangler style sheaths are popular these days but if you find yourself on a ladder or needing to hang onto something with one hand they are pretty much useless because they invariably require two hands to put back in the sheath.  I rigged a forearm sheath for a small, fixed blade utility knife at one point and while it worked well from the standpoint of accessibility I couldn't keep it in place without a lot more strapping than was practical during heavy exertion. 

Just my $.02 worth.   :coffee
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: MTK20 on January 17, 2019, 02:23:45 pm
I take my cue on work knives from the electricians and millwrights that often work in very challenging environments.  The usually opt for some sort of belt pouch with a dedicated pocket for either a small fixed blade utility knife or conventional blade. 

Just my $.02 worth.   :coffee
I've actually added a small fixed blade to my daily essentials. It's really nice. All it took for me to carry one daily was for it to be sold with a good horizontal sheath. I've passed up so many knives due to s___ sheaths.

I got it as a gift, but the brand is knife ranch . They're straight outta Compton New Caney, Texas.

https://www.knivesranch.com
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: coelacanth on January 17, 2019, 03:20:16 pm
 :thumbup1  Always nice to support local businesses and craftsmen.  I find the ingenuity and craftsmanship necessary to produce a superior, small fixed blade knife to be easily equal to that necessary to produce a combat capable Bowie style knife. 
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: luke213(adamsholsters) on January 17, 2019, 03:42:09 pm
They're straight outta Compton New Caney, Texas.

https://www.knivesranch.com

Funny Enough that's an area I'm more than a little familiar with;) And even funnier I lived around 150 yards from their location in New Caney. If you look them up on Google street view for the little strip mall they are located in, the sign in the image "Lone Star RV park" that's where we were when Sarah worked her contract in Kingman back then.

Either way surprised to see a knife shop literally what I would have considered my back yard from the RV park while we were down there;)

Luke
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: MTK20 on January 17, 2019, 04:53:59 pm
Funny Enough that's an area I'm more than a little familiar with;) And even funnier I lived around 150 yards from their location in New Caney. If you look them up on Google street view for the little strip mall they are located in, the sign in the image "Lone Star RV park" that's where we were when Sarah worked her contract in Kingman back then.

Either way surprised to see a knife shop literally what I would have considered my back yard from the RV park while we were down there;)

Luke

Interesting! I remember you saying that Sarah did travel contracts and you're more than a little familiar with them. If I ever sign up for a contract, I'm still going to take you up on your offer and pick your brain before I fully commit to anything  :cool .

I never knew you lived in Texas before. Because the knife was a gift, I've actually never been out there before.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: freeman1685 on January 17, 2019, 04:54:44 pm
I have so many pocket knives, I'm always carrying at least two.  One is a cheapo MTech, liner lock, w/pocket clip, meant for fast deployment.  Good blade, actually, holds a surprisingly good edge.  Opens with a flick of the wrist.  The other, which resides at the bottom of the same pocket as the MTech, with the extra keys, rotates.  Currently, it's a sweet little Kershaw.  Rubberized grip, back lock, blade length right about 2 3/8in.

But here's the kicker, while I'd be pretty bummed if I lost the Kershaw (it really is a sweet little knife), losing that MTech would seriously piss me off.  It was a gift.

Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: MTK20 on January 17, 2019, 05:11:03 pm
I have so many pocket knives, I'm always carrying at least two.  One is a cheapo MTech, liner lock, w/pocket clip, meant for fast deployment.  Good blade, actually, holds a surprisingly good edge.  Opens with a flick of the wrist.  The other, which resides at the bottom of the same pocket as the MTech, with the extra keys, rotates.  Currently, it's a sweet little Kershaw.  Rubberized grip, back lock, blade length right about 2 3/8in.

But here's the kicker, while I'd be pretty bummed if I lost the Kershaw (it really is a sweet little knife), losing that MTech would seriously piss me off.  It was a gift.

Sentimentality is a big thing. It might be a bit depressing to admit, but you take the cheapest piece of junk inanimate object you can think of, and the fact still stands, inanimate objects live longer than humans do.

That's why we pass things down. Whether they be family engagement rings, Dad's watch, a buddy's everyday carry handgun, etc.

Regarding knives, I used to carry one for utility and one for self defence. Basically one was carried often and never used and the other was carried always and abused always. They are my Cold Steel AK-47 and my Victorinox Farmer. Now with this little fixed blade, I never really shelved the other two, so I guess I carry 3 knives now everday :hide  :facepalm . I pretty much use the fixed blade for both utility and defence purposes, but I suppose the redundancy in carrying an additional knife isn't a horrible sin  :shrug .
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: freeman1685 on January 17, 2019, 05:29:12 pm
Sentimentality is a big thing. It might be a bit depressing to admit, but you take the cheapest piece of junk inanimate object you can think of, and the fact still stands, inanimate objects live longer than humans do.

That's why we pass things down. Whether they be family engagement rings, Dad's watch, a buddy's everyday carry handgun, etc.

Regarding knives, I used to carry one for utility and one for self defence. Basically one was carried often and never used and the other was carried always and abused always. They are my Cold Steel AK-47 and my Victorinox Farmer. Now with this little fixed blade, I never really shelved the other two, so I guess I carry 3 knives now everyday :hide  :facepalm . I pretty much use the fixed blade for both utility and defence purposes, but I suppose the redundancy in carrying an additional knife isn't a horrible sin  :shrug .

There's an old country ballad, I think by Willie Nelson (not certain).  But it's about a cowboy, sitting in a bar, and some biker starts razzing him about his hat, the biker even goes so far as to threaten to knock the hat off the cowboy's head.  The cowboy tells the story of every item, where he got the hat, the hatband, etc.  At the end, he looks at the biker, and says something along the lines of, "If that vest means as much to you, as this hat means to me, best you just leave it alone."  So, yeah, we tend to hold onto things, because of the memories.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: coelacanth on January 17, 2019, 06:23:34 pm
Agreed.  I seem to remember from way back in the day when I used to go into bars and various other places of ill repute, people who dress and act in such a way as to make an impression on others usually accomplish their goal.   :coffee
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: freeman1685 on January 17, 2019, 06:28:35 pm
Agreed.  I seem to remember from way back in the day when I used to go into bars and various other places of ill repute, people who dress and act in such a way as to make an impression on others usually accomplish their goal.   :coffee

So, we're talking back when dirt was big rocks, right?   :neener
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: coelacanth on January 17, 2019, 06:39:52 pm
Yup.  No dirt at all back then.   All that cleaning stuff came along much later.    :cool
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: LowKey on January 17, 2019, 08:47:22 pm
So, we're talking back when dirt was big rocks, right?   :neener
There was only one rock back then, youngster.

 ;)
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: MTK20 on January 17, 2019, 09:30:47 pm
There's an old country ballad, I think by Willie Nelson (not certain).  But it's about a cowboy, sitting in a bar, and some biker starts razzing him about his hat, the biker even goes so far as to threaten to knock the hat off the cowboy's head.  The cowboy tells the story of every item, where he got the hat, the hatband, etc.  At the end, he looks at the biker, and says something along the lines of, "If that vest means as much to you, as this hat means to me, best you just leave it alone."  So, yeah, we tend to hold onto things, because of the memories.

Yep. I have a Dillon Aero gunbelt that I wear daily because it's a hand me down from dear old Dad. It's old, worn, and the brass has become green with verdigris. He had it hanging in his closet, unused these days, because he "outgrew" it in his 30's I think.

On the other end of the spectrum, we also had a family friend whom was an older gentleman and fellow gun nut. I didn't know him real well, due to illness taking him when we only knew each other for a couple years, but he had no children at all. When he passed, I purchased his every day carry Glock 23 to help his wife with funds. I don't shoot or carry it often, but I keep it tucked away in the back of the safe just for sentimentality. He seemed like a really cool dude, we just didn't have much time to get acquainted.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: cpaspr on January 18, 2019, 09:27:19 pm
There's an old country ballad, I think by Willie Nelson (not certain).  But it's about a cowboy, sitting in a bar, and some biker starts razzing him about his hat, the biker even goes so far as to threaten to knock the hat off the cowboy's head.  The cowboy tells the story of every item, where he got the hat, the hatband, etc.  At the end, he looks at the biker, and says something along the lines of, "If that vest means as much to you, as this hat means to me, best you just leave it alone."  So, yeah, we tend to hold onto things, because of the memories.

Found it:

Not Willie - Chris Ledoux

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqDhE01jV_g

Yeah, that's a good one.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: freeman1685 on January 19, 2019, 01:34:02 am
That's the one.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: Top Dog on June 22, 2021, 12:22:46 pm
A few posts back,someone commented that auto knives are  usually weak.

Look at the Micro-Tech knife site and see some of their torcher tests on their knives. It will change your mind.

Quality auto knives now a days are a far cry from the ones of years gone by.

It was mentioned before that AKTI is a very good source for knife laws,same goes for Knife Rights.ORG.

Seems that more and more pro knife laws are being passed frequently.

                                                                                                              Top Dog
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: coelacanth on June 22, 2021, 01:16:39 pm
I agree that the field of auto knife design has made some significant progress but most weak designs ( old or new ) are that way because they were designed around an idea that may, or may not align with what the end user has in mind.  I have several folding knives that are hell for strong and have served me well over the years.  The only automatic I would put in that category is a big, beefy handful by Charlie Ochs. 

Back in the day automatics ( "switchblades" in the parlance of the time ) were considered an essential part of the "modern" office.  They occupied a place of honor alongside the typewriter and the fountain pen and the Gregg Ruled shorthand notebook.  Secretaries swore by them and occasionally at them and they were so common they were sold at dime stores and sometimes included in large orders of office supplies as "freebies" from the suppliers.  Friction folders also found favor in the office desk drawer but those little automatics were quite popular. 

"Knife Rights"  (   https://kniferights.org  )  was an organization formed about fifteen years ago for the express purpose of doing for knives what the various gun rights organizations were doing for firearms.  To date they have been pretty damned successful for a small, recently formed organization.  I attribute that to the vision of the founder and a lot of hard work on his part.  He was a neighbor of mine twenty years ago and we used to talk about his idea a good bit.  He got this off the ground shortly after relocating for better employment and it has, apparently, grown to become his full time job.  His name id Doug Ritter and if you do a web search you will find a lot of info about a really interesting character. 
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: huey148 on June 22, 2021, 02:29:16 pm
First time on this board in years, but FWIW Ohio lifted the ban on self opening knives a month or so ago.  Per state law now, a knife is only a weapon when used as such, legally it is a tool until brandished.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: coelacanth on June 22, 2021, 10:21:36 pm
Good news from Ohio then.   :thumbup1   Welcome back.   :cool
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: Top Dog on June 23, 2021, 08:19:35 am
Coelacanth,
I knew Charles Ochs for years. Had one of his sterile black knives for years. It is rather large but good simple quality.

The Micro-Tech LUDT is a large out the side auto along the same lines.

Years ago,in magazines such as Field & Stream,Outdoor Life,etc had ads for Wolf Killer stiletto knives for $9.95. Obviously cheap junk not worth the price of postage.

Go to BladeHQ.com and you will see lots of quality USA made autos.  None are cheap but you pay for cheap twice or more.

                                                                                                                                      Top Dog
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: coelacanth on June 23, 2021, 04:04:35 pm
Agreed.  I never met Mr. Ochs but the " 'chute knife " I have is one of those like yours.  Good kit, for sure.   I'm still looking around for the best combination of features on either an automatic or one of the spring assisted flippers.  So far nothing has convinced be to part with actual any actual money - but then I have the " 'chute knife " to compare them to .  .  .   :hmm.
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: Top Dog on June 24, 2021, 09:02:50 am
Your chute knife is a good standard to which judge others.

Some years back,the spring on mine broke. I shipped it down to Mr. Ochs and in short order it was returned,repaired and no charge.

                                                                                                                              Top Dog
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: coelacanth on June 24, 2021, 08:02:20 pm
 :thumbup1
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: Top Dog on June 27, 2021, 09:30:34 am
I just saw that Boker knives just came out with a CA legal OTF Auto knife,almost keychain size.

Boker makes quality stuff and the surprising thing is that it is going for about $60.


                                                                                          Top Dog
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: coelacanth on June 27, 2021, 01:47:52 pm
Yup.  Boker has been good kit for a lot of years.  The one I had hoped to see in person is that new(ish) rendition of the Benchmade Osborn folder with automatic opening.  Those have always been attractive designs and now the push button opening makes them even better IMO.  They are a bit spendy though.   :hmm

Have you ever wandered over to the AAPK site?   They have a whole section there devoted to automatic openers for sale.  Some new stuff, some junk, but also some pretty nice older pieces not often found on today's market.  Might be worth a look if you haven't seen it.   :coffee

https://allaboutpocketknives.com
Title: Re: Aoto knife questions?
Post by: Top Dog on June 29, 2021, 09:45:48 am
I will have to check that site out sometime in the future.

At this point I pretty much have had my fill of autoknives and don't want to be tempted to get yet another.

                                                                Top Dog