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Author Topic: Using catch/kill dogs is not ethical?  (Read 5563 times)

Plebian

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Using catch/kill dogs is not ethical?
« on: August 27, 2017, 03:05:30 pm »
I have read in a few hunting/firearm forums and heard in person a few times. That some folks feel it is not ethical to use dogs to kill an animal. They seem to be fine with hunting in general and using dogs to hunt in general, but it is somehow less ethical to kill said animal with dogs instead of a firearm.

Some of the people I have spoken to in person just seem ignorant of using dogs to hunt in general. As they thought it was impossible for dogs to kill coyotes/coons/bobcats without high chances of the dog also dying.

Did I just grow up in a barbaric clan of murdering savages, or do we have some folks on the board that can help me understand the general idea of using dogs = unethical?
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    Grant

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    Re: Using catch/kill dogs is not ethical?
    « Reply #1 on: August 27, 2017, 04:27:59 pm »
       Quite honestly I view anti dog people the same as anti-trapping people.   90%, even outdoorsman and other hunters, do not understand the dilemma and situation enough to make an informed opinion, however do so anyway.

         People think it's unnecessarily "cruel" in that a dog doesn't instantly kill an animal like a bullet.   Starvation due to the mange or a broken leg?   Getting injured in a fight with another coyote?   

      Dogs kill quick when they're trained to hunt animals.   They don't toy with them for the fun of it like coyotes do.   
     
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    LowKey

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    Re: Using catch/kill dogs is not ethical?
    « Reply #2 on: August 27, 2017, 05:39:41 pm »
    As far as I'm concerned, as long as you and the dogs are not drawing out the death longer than needed, you are on the "ethical" side of the equation.    Dying isn't alway neat and tidy.

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    Re: Using catch/kill dogs is not ethical?
    « Reply #3 on: August 27, 2017, 05:40:22 pm »
    I've hunted wild boar with dogs for over 30 years. I've had dogs killed and injured while hunting and I've been injured by the pigs as well. I don't see any issues in using dogs for hunting.

    On a side note, I don't understand hunting dogs with deer. It's a regional thing here with the lower part of the state using dogs but the upper part where I am using still or stand hunting.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: Using catch/kill dogs is not ethical?
    « Reply #4 on: August 27, 2017, 05:49:30 pm »
       Quite honestly I view anti dog people the same as anti-trapping people.   90%, even outdoorsman and other hunters, do not understand the dilemma and situation enough to make an informed opinion, however do so anyway.

         People think it's unnecessarily "cruel" in that a dog doesn't instantly kill an animal like a bullet.   Starvation due to the mange or a broken leg?   Getting injured in a fight with another coyote?   

      Dogs kill quick when they're trained to hunt animals.   They don't toy with them for the fun of it like coyotes do.   
     
    Agreed.  People who don't know dogs generally and don't know hunting dogs specifically are hardly in a position to make an informed statement on the subject.  Canines are and have been, since time out of mind, apex level pack hunters and scavengers.  They are adaptable and highly intelligent.  We have partnered with them since long before the dawn of recorded history.  It has been a good partnership - especially for us. 

    Properly trained, hunting dogs kill quickly in the manner of the gifts they were born with.  Its not pretty and its not as quick as a well placed bullet but it is effective and no worse than the the same act performed ten thousand times every day by feral canines the world over. 

    There is a certain squeamishness present in people who have not hunted extensively or been involved in butchering either wild game or livestock outside a commercial processing facility.  My opinion ( worth exactly what you paid for it  :cool ) is that these folks are separated from their food supply by both circumstance and choice.  Ethics is, at best,  a relative concept and largely a construct of people who have a menu of options to pick from in a given situation - like feeding your family.  Poaching the King's deer in the King's forest was frowned upon as "unethical" as well but necessity trumped ethical considerations for those involved.   Indeed, history shows that the entire concept of "Kingship" was deemed unethical by many thereby illustrating the relative and transient nature of the concept of "ethics".   :hmm
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    Plebian

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    Re: Using catch/kill dogs is not ethical?
    « Reply #5 on: August 27, 2017, 06:55:30 pm »
    I grow up running coons/bobcat with hounds and running coyotes with greyhounds. It just always seemed rather similar to most other hunting activities with no more real cruelty than any act of taking life may entail.

    I also consider running coyotes with greyhounds as one of the most beautiful forms of hunting. The sheer grace, excitement and prowess shown in a good clean release on a coyote is just amazing IMO.

    It was just always hard for me to see the difference between an air restriction death from a hound, and the bleed out/blood aspiration death of a lung shot animal. It is obviously not as quick as CNS damage, but I have had more than a few hounds that killed by cranial collapse or spinal crush.

    I think some folks just confuse coyote hunting with dogs as similar to dog fighting. Which is not even close to the same ballpark.   
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    Kaso

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    Re: Using catch/kill dogs is not ethical?
    « Reply #6 on: August 27, 2017, 11:04:31 pm »
    It was just always hard for me to see the difference between an air restriction death from a hound, and the bleed out/blood aspiration death of a lung shot animal. It is obviously not as quick as CNS damage, but I have had more than a few hounds that killed by cranial collapse or spinal crush.

    I think some folks just confuse coyote hunting with dogs as similar to dog fighting. Which is not even close to the same ballpark.   
    Part of the trouble may be that peoples' perceptions are colored by the area and culture in which they live.  In Pennsylvania, hunting large game with dogs is very illegal.  As in, I am pretty sure it is legal to shoot someone else's game dog (beagle or bird dog) if you see them in the act of chasing deer.  I might be wrong, but that is the common wisdom.  Looked at that way, 'if it is illegal, it must be immoral,' I can see why some might be against hunting with dogs.  Not that they know anything about it, but they just figure that it 'must be wrong.'  :shrug

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