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Author Topic: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?  (Read 8261 times)

Ronin

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Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
« on: October 14, 2008, 10:39:09 pm »
Got a great deal on the 640.  Wanted one forever.  Now that I have it, I find that it is not practical.  Too heavy for the payload.  Got used to a flat auto.  I could go on forever.  I am thinking of trading to a 1911.  I have the leather for it already.  Just fell into the "had to have it" with the j frame.  It would make a great jacket pocket gun.  But then I have a few autos that are a lot lighter that can cover that.  I really cant justify the gun anymore other than I like the feel of it in my hand.  Not a pleasant gun to shoot at all.  So, with all the rambling, should I just hold on to it or trade/sell it off?  A local dealer has shown interest in it, and I bought it right, so a trade would still put me on top.  If I throw it out on the boards, I may get a better trade.  I really need some good advice.  Too many guns, too little wallet/time.
"Bound and dedicated men, most samurai resented the personal freedom that the wandering ronin enjoyed.  Ronin were the epitome of self determination; they were independent men who dictated their own path in life, answering only to themselves and making dec

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    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #1 on: October 14, 2008, 10:42:14 pm »
    If it doesn't suit you... there is no reason to keep it.  The fact that you have posted about it, means that it's already gone.  Your just still holding on to it. 
    Sell it.
    Buy something that makes you grin ear to ear.
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    Ronin

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #2 on: October 14, 2008, 10:56:17 pm »
    You are right.  I know you like the Kimber, but what flavor should I shoot for.  I would have 3-400 to put with the 640 for a trade up.  I was going to shoot for a RIA "Tactical" in an even up trade if possible.  I need the ambi safety, wrong handed.  Just need input on what direction to head.  Won't be happy until a 1911 is in hand.  Probably look for a full size so it can conceal and still be a range plinker.  As long as it is a shooter and has the ambi, I will be happy.  Just for info, is there a Kimber that meets the criteria? 
    "Bound and dedicated men, most samurai resented the personal freedom that the wandering ronin enjoyed.  Ronin were the epitome of self determination; they were independent men who dictated their own path in life, answering only to themselves and making dec

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #3 on: October 15, 2008, 12:23:08 am »
    Go for the gold... go all the way.  Trust me... you put the Kimber SIS Ultra in your hand - nothing else will satisfy you.
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    Harry Buttermint

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #4 on: October 15, 2008, 11:04:49 am »
    Yep, I too was thinking of the SIS Kimber in either the Pro 4"or Custom5" bbl.(w/o the light rail). I am not much for the cheesy "SIS" serrations on the slide, but after handling one, I could see how it would provide an excellent purchase for one's fingers in foul weather or with wet, muddy hands.
    What I really like about it is it's stout sights, flat manspring combined w/ a long trigger and otherwise simple basic exterior, aside from the aforementioned serrations....
    If I were in the market for a 1911 type pistol I could easily narrow it down to: this pistol, the Dan Wesson Commander Bobtail, or the DW Valor. I think you owe it to yourself to check them all out and make a well informed decision.
    « Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 11:09:46 am by Harry Buttermint »

    Ronin

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #5 on: October 15, 2008, 02:57:41 pm »
    Just to find a store around here that would stock all of them.  The SIS really intrigues me.  I read the book Extreme Justice, which spawned a super lame movie, and learned of the SIS.  It really impressed me that someone would have enough forethought to institute a unit like that.  Now the gun that salutes and arms them.  I really could get into that on the units merit alone.  Then to make it a high end 1911.  Good call.  I need to really start calling around and see who might have a few of them.  The only store that carries any 1911's in quantity only carries Wilsons.  The only 1911's worth a damn, according to their gun "experts".  So you see what I'm battling here.
    "Bound and dedicated men, most samurai resented the personal freedom that the wandering ronin enjoyed.  Ronin were the epitome of self determination; they were independent men who dictated their own path in life, answering only to themselves and making dec

    springmom

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #6 on: October 16, 2008, 04:18:24 pm »
    I'm with those who say, sell or trade it.  Some guns are meant to be held onto for a lifetime...but if this was one of them, you wouldn't be talking about trades. 

    I wish Santa would put an SIS under the tree for me this year.  (Oh, I forgot....need to get my husband to sign on over here before dropping hints  ;D)

    Springmom
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    Ske1etor

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #7 on: October 16, 2008, 04:24:41 pm »
    The Kimber TLE II is a nice piece as well... quite a bit cheaper and the only real difference is that it has the series II (Swartz firing pin block safety). 

    Plus I hear SIS owners complaining about the finish.  They say it is far too slick if your hands are sweaty.  Haven't had the honor of shooting one of the SIS's yet so I won't make further comments on that particular firearm.

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    MikeGolf

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #8 on: October 16, 2008, 08:11:30 pm »
    Id trade it if I were you. Doesnt seem like you really dig it so get something you enjoy shooting. Kimbers IMO are always a good gun and a joy to shoot.

    Ronin

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #9 on: October 16, 2008, 08:48:31 pm »
    Definately might be a while before a SIS graces the Ronin's hands.  Checked at the best place in this area and their price is 1299.  While I understand what I would be getting for that price, my wife would not.  So, anything without the Schwartz safety system?  How about the Smith 1911's?  And do you really gain anything with their lightweight guns?
    "Bound and dedicated men, most samurai resented the personal freedom that the wandering ronin enjoyed.  Ronin were the epitome of self determination; they were independent men who dictated their own path in life, answering only to themselves and making dec

    Gundoc

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #10 on: October 17, 2008, 01:06:26 am »
    Check out STI. I have to have one of their EAGLE 5.0 high cap 1911.
    « Last Edit: October 17, 2008, 01:14:27 am by Gundoctor »

    MikeGolf

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #11 on: October 17, 2008, 02:04:48 am »
    Check out STI. I have to have one of their EAGLE 5.0 high cap 1911.

    They do make some fine firearms. They also make some really nice IMO budget 1911's That can be had for around 500.00

    Ske1etor

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #12 on: October 17, 2008, 08:02:15 am »
    Definately might be a while before a SIS graces the Ronin's hands.  Checked at the best place in this area and their price is 1299.  While I understand what I would be getting for that price, my wife would not.  So, anything without the Schwartz safety system?  How about the Smith 1911's?  And do you really gain anything with their lightweight guns?

    The Swarts is a firing pin block safety.  The Swartz safety differs the series 80 colt firing pin block safety in that it is actuated by the grip safety and not by the trigger itself.  Therefore you get the (supposed) extra safety without losing the crisp trigger on the 1911.  Here is the rundown.  In a series II Kimber, there are a few extra pieces.  One is in the frame and two are in the slide. 

    The extra part in the frame is the firing pin lifter (pushrod).  It is situated on the sear pin to the right of the disconnector/sear group.  It has a slot instead of a round hole so it can be "lifted" into place by actuating the grip safety.

    The extra parts in the slide are the firing pin block and the firing pin block spring.  Basically inside the firing pin hole there is a vertical window cut.  In that window sits a keyholed piece of metal plate.  It is sitting on a track with a spring holding it in the downward position.  The keyhole is fitted to the series II firing pin which has a shoulder cut into it.

    When you depress the grip safety, the lifter arm pushes up through the frame and into the slide.  It pushes the firing pin block up against the spring and the slot portion of the keyhole in the block moves up and the firing pin can now pass through the round portion of the keyhole. 

    That is basically it... in a nutshell.

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    Gundoc

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #13 on: October 17, 2008, 10:46:21 am »
    Quote
    The Swarts is a firing pin block safety.  The Swartz safety differs the series 80 colt firing pin block safety in that it is actuated by the grip safety and not by the trigger itself.  Therefore you get the (supposed) extra safety without losing the crisp trigger on the 1911.  Here is the rundown.  In a series II Kimber, there are a few extra pieces.  One is in the frame and two are in the slide. 

    The extra part in the frame is the firing pin lifter (pushrod).  It is situated on the sear pin to the right of the disconnector/sear group.  It has a slot instead of a round hole so it can be "lifted" into place by actuating the grip safety.

    The extra parts in the slide are the firing pin block and the firing pin block spring.  Basically inside the firing pin hole there is a vertical window cut.  In that window sits a keyholed piece of metal plate.  It is sitting on a track with a spring holding it in the downward position.  The keyhole is fitted to the series II firing pin which has a shoulder cut into it.

    When you depress the grip safety, the lifter arm pushes up through the frame and into the slide.  It pushes the firing pin block up against the spring and the slot portion of the keyhole in the block moves up and the firing pin can now pass through the round portion of the keyhole. 

    That is basically it... in a nutshell.

    Good info, thanks much.

    cpaspr

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #14 on: October 24, 2008, 08:00:03 pm »
    I agree.  Sell it or trade it. 

    Have you considered the Taurus PT1911?  The guy who runs our Bullseye matches is a nationally recognized pistolsmith.  For Bullseye shooting, he's recommending the PT1911 straight from the box, with a trigger job and a red-dot scope.  No other alterations needed.  Mind you, I realize you aren't asking for a Bullseye gun.  But if they're that accurate and reliable from the box, what more do you need?  Yeah, Kimbers are nice, but they're also $4-500 more.  The PT1911s are running around $649, give or take a few.

    Oh, yeah.  They also come with the ambi safety.
    Oregon

    MarshallDodge

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #15 on: October 24, 2008, 09:39:14 pm »
    If you are not happy with the gun then I say trade it in.

    I am not a fan of firing pin safeties.  There have been problems with them and they are just a couple more pieces in a mechanism that could fail.

    I think the Springfield GI or Mil-Spec are a good basic 1911 that can be upgraded to your liking.  They are available in 4" and 5" versions.

    For something higher end but really nice, check out the Dan Wesson Bobtail Classic.  They can be had in 45ACP and 10mm.  I have seen them on the slightly used market for $700.

    I have one in 45ACP that I purchased used earlier this year.  I noticed the barrel bushing had started to wear so I inquired about it on the 1911 forum.  The Dan Wesson rep responded that they had a bad batch of bushings go out on their guns.  I purchased a replacement Ed Brown bushing from Brownells and it dropped right in.  After that the gun has run like a champ and is very accurate.  The bobtail feature is really nice when you are carrying in a canted holster.

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    Ronin

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #16 on: October 25, 2008, 02:58:02 pm »
    I ended up selling the 640 locally and purchased a "American Classic II" from a local dealer for around $380.  I then purchased 2 Wilson mags, an IWB holster, and 2 boxes of Gold Dots.  All that is left is to purchase the ambi safety and grips that will accomodate it.  All this for the money I got out of the Smith.  With change left over.  Took the 1911 out to run a break in period with WWB.  It will hold about a 2" group at 40 feet offhand.  Impressive.  I really like it so far.  Handles nice, very accurate and has broke in well.  No problems with ball or Gold Dots.  It does not like Fiocchi SXT loads though.  Will not go all the way into battery.  Odd.  So I guess the one way to overcome that is not to use them.  I am confident that the Gold Dots should be enough to carry me out of any tight spot I might find myself in.  One thing I have found out, I am not liking the trend to put serrations on the front of the slide.  Ok for a range queen, not the greatest for me and daily carry.
    "Bound and dedicated men, most samurai resented the personal freedom that the wandering ronin enjoyed.  Ronin were the epitome of self determination; they were independent men who dictated their own path in life, answering only to themselves and making dec

    MarshallDodge

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #17 on: October 26, 2008, 12:11:21 am »
    Congrats on your purchase.

    For the money I think Firestorm makes good stuff.  The barrel may have a tight throat and that may be the issue you are seeing with the ammo not working.
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson

    Ronin

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #18 on: October 26, 2008, 02:26:45 am »
    Thats what I was thinking.  It stays about an 1/8 inch out of battery with the round.  If you hit the slide release to chamber the round, you really have to work to get the slide to open.  It is in there pretty good.  Scared me the first time it happened.  I've been out of the 1911 game too long.  I forgot how finicky they can be.  And their idiosycrasies.  But for all of their little "things", they just feel right.  I love the gun.  It shoots better than I can, it really brought me back into the fun side of shooting.  I have a full size Glock, and carried one on duty for a long time.  Now that I have a 1911 back in the stable, it really rings true that plastic pistols have no soul.  I am slowly rebuilding the 1911 love.  I don't know how I would act if I had an "heirloom" 1911.  Probably wouldn't be able to live with me.  I will shoot and carry the "beater" until the opportunity presents itself to move up to a different model.  FWIW, the bar has been set pretty high with this sub $400 gun.  Thanks for the kind words and not beating me up for going to the dark side and getting a non brand name.  I would love to print some groups and post some pics, just for posterity sake.
    "Bound and dedicated men, most samurai resented the personal freedom that the wandering ronin enjoyed.  Ronin were the epitome of self determination; they were independent men who dictated their own path in life, answering only to themselves and making dec

    MarshallDodge

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #19 on: October 26, 2008, 12:28:05 pm »
    I've been out of the 1911 game too long.  I forgot how finicky they can be.  And their idiosycrasies.
    It could be bad ammo with the bullet seated too long, a quality issue with the barrel being out of spec, or it's on the tight side for match grade accuracy.  You could have a good qualified 1911 gunsmith do a reliability job on it.  This will include throating the barrel and polishing the feed ramp.

    Glock makes fine guns but you are seeing the difference between a target grade gun and a combat gun.
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson

    Ronin

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    Re: Thinking of trading off 640, should I?
    « Reply #20 on: October 26, 2008, 06:40:23 pm »
    I had an epiphany, why not chamber check the loads?  I checked each one of the Fiocchis by hand.  Several were fine, but the rest would not chamber.  They are 230gr, the same as the Gold Dot.  All of the GD's chamber fine.  I think you are correct that the SXT's are not seated properly.  I will have to pick up a few more flavors of ammo to see if this is consistent.  The WWB is 230gr and never had the first problem with (so far) 300 rounds.  Flawless.  So I am in the belief that I might have just got an out of tolerance batch of ammo.  I will take the gun into the shop that I got it from.  They have an on duty 1911 guy who is pretty knowledgable.  I called him and he pretty much called it on the spot.  He wants to check it with some of the loads that he has on hand, so it may save me a few pennies.  It likes the GDs so well, I really don't want to deviate from that if I can help it.  If the chamber is out of spec, then we will get it fixed and see if it likes anything better, which would be accuracy wise scary.
    "Bound and dedicated men, most samurai resented the personal freedom that the wandering ronin enjoyed.  Ronin were the epitome of self determination; they were independent men who dictated their own path in life, answering only to themselves and making dec

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