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Author Topic: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman  (Read 3581 times)

Grant

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The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
« on: July 13, 2016, 10:18:26 pm »
   

Chris/MTK's S&W 28 showed up on my doorstep this afternoon  :cool

SUPER happy. Beautiful gun and SMOOTH.  Smoothest DA revolver I own after Kaso's Snubnose M10.

  Took off the target grips and slipped on the small size that I had waiting for it.

Shoots...okay.   Only about 3-4" but I'm sure it'll settle in after I get used to it.  I like the trigger, but it's.....different?  Than the others I have.     

HAPPY!
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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    MTK20

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #1 on: July 13, 2016, 10:28:48 pm »
     :D :D :D :D

    I am so glad you're happy with it!

    I can't wait to get my west German, certified preowned Sig! It shall compliment my carry rotation nicely  ;).
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Grant

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #2 on: July 14, 2016, 02:02:04 pm »
      Who else here has had one of these?  And what accuracy were you getting?

     Been shooting the heck out of it and can rarely get a group to go under three and a half inches.  Barrels just a shade canted but I wouldn't think that would cause any problem.

       For reference I took my 2.75" Ruger and 4" Taurus and punched 2" and 2.5" groups respectively with them so I don't think I was pulling that badly, new gun aside.

       
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Desert Rat

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #3 on: July 14, 2016, 07:11:07 pm »
    Beautiful. I love those old 28's.  :thumbup1

    coelacanth

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #4 on: July 15, 2016, 02:30:43 am »
    I have one.  Same configuration, and also one with the 6" barrel.   Both of mine are pretty accurate with ammunition they like and they both like heavier bullet weights.  They really start coming into their own with bullet weights from 140 grain to 158 grain and the four inch seems pretty happy with 180 grains as well.   I don't shoot much from a rest with these guns but when I did they would usually keep it to around 2" - 2.5" groups at 25 yards.  I was always more interested in minute of jack rabbit or minute of coyote type accuracy out to roughly 30 - 40 yards.

    You would think that being as massive as they are for the .357 magnum cartridge they would be damned near indestructible but a lot of these guns develop cylinder end shake - especially when they've run a lot of hot 125 grain ammo.  You can usually spot it by checking the barrel/cylinder gap.  It should run anywhere from .003 to .005 but I've seen quite a few with a gap that is in the .007 to .008 range.  That can have a detrimental affect on your accuracy.   The other thing you occasionally find is a slightly bent crane.  The weight of the cylinder is higher in these than any other N frame - especially when loaded - and all it takes is some nimrod flinging it closed by flipping the gun quickly to the right to tweak the whole assembly.  Misaligned chambers will definitely throw your groups out of whack.  Other things to look for are damage to the muzzle crown, barrel throat erosion and undersized chambers.  If the barrel is sized at .357 and one or more of your chambers is running .355 you might need to ream them out to match the barrel diameter. 

    Have you tried any hard cast bullets or are you mostly running jacketed stuff ?   
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

                                                   Benjamin Franklin

    MTK20

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #5 on: July 15, 2016, 02:38:55 am »
    I have one.  Same configuration, and also one with the 6" barrel.   Both of mine are pretty accurate with ammunition they like and they both like heavier bullet weights.  They really start coming into their own with bullet weights from 140 grain to 158 grain and the four inch seems pretty happy with 180 grains as well.   I don't shoot much from a rest with these guns but when I did they would usually keep it to around 2" - 2.5" groups at 25 yards.  I was always more interested in minute of jack rabbit or minute of coyote type accuracy out to roughly 30 - 40 yards.

    You would think that being as massive as they are for the .357 magnum cartridge they would be damned near indestructible but a lot of these guns develop cylinder end shake - especially when they've run a lot of hot 125 grain ammo.  You can usually spot it by checking the barrel/cylinder gap.  It should run anywhere from .003 to .005 but I've seen quite a few with a gap that is in the .007 to .008 range.  That can have a detrimental affect on your accuracy.   The other thing you occasionally find is a slightly bent crane.  The weight of the cylinder is higher in these than any other N frame - especially when loaded - and all it takes is some nimrod flinging it closed by flipping the gun quickly to the right to tweak the whole assembly.  Misaligned chambers will definitely throw your groups out of whack.  Other things to look for are damage to the muzzle crown, barrel throat erosion and undersized chambers.  If the barrel is sized at .357 and one or more of your chambers is running .355 you might need to ream them out to match the barrel diameter. 

    Have you tried any hard cast bullets or are you mostly running jacketed stuff ?

    Before purchasing it I was able to examine the crown, ejector rod, and for push off and such.

    What I put in bold is both quite troubling to me and I believe the diagnosis. Grant and I have been texting a fair amount today and he said that she is spitting a little bit and not holding accuracy. Based off of the new info you just gave, I reckon she has a cylinder or timing problem. It would make sense too. I ran just a couple boxes through her and then mainly let it sit, appreciating the history as part of the device. With so few rounds put through, the cylinder problem could have easily escaped me  :facepalm.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #6 on: July 15, 2016, 02:48:41 am »
    Well, it could be the end shake problem or the carry up timing might be off a smidge or a combination of both.  Hard to say without giving it a close look but the good news is all of these things are fixable. 
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

                                                   Benjamin Franklin

    Kaso

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #7 on: July 15, 2016, 07:28:17 am »
    Well, it could be the end shake problem or the carry up timing might be off a smidge or a combination of both.  Hard to say without giving it a close look but the good news is all of these things are fixable.
    I wonder if S&W would still work on these.

    Grant

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #8 on: July 15, 2016, 02:44:56 pm »
      Going to get a set of good feeler gauges today, I used a "farm shop" pair (If you've lived where there's a haphazard collection of tools used by 4 different people you'll understand) and it showed from .009-.010 gap.      Going to check it and several other revolvers as a matchup and see how it looks.

       The chambers all allow .358 bullets to be pushed through except one, and on it, .357's push through quite easily.

    Timing appears solid, holding the trigger and slowly lowering hammer,etc. there's very little/almost no right left play at any point in the rotation, though it could be a smidge off.

      By serial number it appears to be made in 1960-61 so she coulda had a diet of 125's.

       I'll contact S&W this afternoon see if they would cover it under warrenty.   If I had to have a gunsmith work on it, it would take very little to run up costs expensive enough to make it not worth it.

       

       
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Grant

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #9 on: July 15, 2016, 02:47:34 pm »
    Have you tried any hard cast bullets or are you mostly running jacketed stuff ?   

    I've been shooting both factory .357 and .38's, and my own hardcast handloaded 158 grain .38/44 and 180 grain .357 handloads with .358 diameter bullets. 
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    coelacanth

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #10 on: July 16, 2016, 12:04:07 am »
    Sounds like it could be just honest wear on the old girl.  Check with S&W to see if there are any warranty stations near you. Barring that, you could see about locating a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's book on S&W revolvers.  They are pretty detailed and would give you an idea if the work necessary is something you'd be willing to try on your own.   :shrug

    You didn't say if you were firing primarily in single action mode or double action.  If she's spitting at you in single action mode I'd definitely say its getting worn past factory specs. 
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

                                                   Benjamin Franklin

    MTK20

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #11 on: July 16, 2016, 02:52:19 am »
    What differs single action from double action when it comes to wear?  :hmm
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Grant

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #12 on: July 16, 2016, 08:22:35 am »
     The trigger "break" happens at a fractionally different time in the rotation/locking process. 

      Called S&W.   Refused to do warrenty work and said it would have to be sent to the performance center.  $60 minimum to just diagnose and ship it back, around $100 for a basic timing job and the guy thought that cylinder endshake or a crane adjustment would run another couple hundred on either job.....so $200-$400 minimum......Roughly the same as what a typical gunsmith is running.  I may try to locate that S&W book but I doubt I'd want to try and screw with timing,etc.

      I'll look at it a bit closer after this weekend and do some more shooting and try to decide what to do.
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    coelacanth

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    Re: The BEST type of Highway Patrolman
    « Reply #13 on: July 17, 2016, 09:41:02 pm »
    If you can't locate the Kuhnhausen book I may consent to lend you my copy.  This is only contingent upon a blood oath sworn by the light of the full moon that your first born child is forfeit if I do not have the book, in the condition it was loaned, back in my possession at the time of the child's birth.  Or I could just sell it to you for an exorbitant sum.   :cool   
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

                                                   Benjamin Franklin

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