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Author Topic: Springfield Armory Hellcat  (Read 4472 times)

coelacanth

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Springfield Armory Hellcat
« on: October 02, 2019, 01:09:46 am »
Anybody seen one of these in person yet?   Looks like a reasonable, logical evolution of the XDs.   Might be a decent concealed carry piece.   :hmm
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    Mikee5star

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #1 on: October 02, 2019, 10:59:20 am »
    I just started seeing buzz on interwebs in the last week or so, it will be several months before they will show up here.  If I get to the big city, pop. 250,000, they likely will have it now.  Springfield's always have let me down on feel, great features, models, and better price than the other major tactical tupperware.  Nothing quantitative, something just niggling that it was not quite right in my hand.   

    I will watch some vid on it when InRangeTV does their video on it, Karl announced on book of masks that they received one.  But I am not in the market for a replacement of the P365, and it is hard to think of a way that the Hellcat could be enough better for me to replace the Sig.  Also I went to the stores that have gun counters twice each in the last month and did not even do a walk by,  :o I must be ill.
    Alaska

    MTK20

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #2 on: October 02, 2019, 12:18:27 pm »
    I've never cared for the XD series, but I like this gun at first blush  :hmm .
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #3 on: October 02, 2019, 05:24:32 pm »
    Well, I don't have SIG P365 I'm looking to replace so there is that.   :cool

    I like the look of the sights on the new Hellcat and also the fact that they deleted the grip safety on this model.  I was an early adopter of the XD series of pistols and found them acceptable rugged and accurate.  As a 1911 shooter the grip safety never really bothered me but it seems an affectation on a striker fired pistol with a trigger safety.  I considered picking up one of the latest versions of the XDs in 9mm but I'm glad I waited as this new pistol seems to be better in some regards. 

    I haven't seen one in person around here yet but will keep my eyes open.  If I get to fire one I'll post a report. 
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Mikee5star

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #4 on: October 03, 2019, 10:19:38 pm »
    I would love to play with one of the new Aimpoint Acro's on a sub-compact carry gun, and the fact that Springfield is making optics ready version would affect my decision if I was making it today.  But none of my current carry pistols are optics ready, and the cost of having a slide milled or a new slide plus the $600+ of an Acro means this is future project.
    Alaska

    coelacanth

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #5 on: October 03, 2019, 10:21:26 pm »
    Yeah, that ends up being a $1200 + gun before you ever fire the first round.   :scrutiny   
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    ksuguy

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #6 on: October 04, 2019, 01:36:45 pm »
    InRange had their video up yesterday.  Seems like a good gun, just wish it was coming from a different company.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #7 on: October 04, 2019, 10:40:10 pm »
    There don't seem to be any perfect ones left.   :hmm
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Mikee5star

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #8 on: October 05, 2019, 04:08:19 pm »
    There don't seem to be any perfect ones left.   :hmm

    Business like life is all about compromise.  I hate that fact, but it is a fact of life.

    Yeah, that ends up being a $1200 + gun before you ever fire the first round.   :scrutiny   

    Why I have not done it yet.  I guess I need to get off of my posterior about getting rid of my long range AR project, and moving those funds on to a project I am more interested in and attached to.  Especially since I now live, for 5+ years, in a place where I am limited to 2-300 yards, a 600-1000 yard rifle makes little to no sense.
    Alaska

    coelacanth

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #9 on: October 05, 2019, 06:05:25 pm »
    Business like life is all about compromise.  I hate that fact, but it is a fact of life.

    Why I have not done it yet.  I guess I need to get off of my posterior about getting rid of my long range AR project, and moving those funds on to a project I am more interested in and attached to.  Especially since I now live, for 5+ years, in a place where I am limited to 2-300 yards, a 600-1000 yard rifle makes little to no sense.
    Quoted for truth.   :thumbup1   

    Whenever I see or hear the word "uncompromising" I wonder if the user knows the definition of the word or if they're just trying to sell something.   :coffee

    Every time I get some sort of delusional hankering for a rifle capable of respectable accuracy and terminal performance at extended ranges - call it 500 to roughly a 1000 yards - I get out the Taser and have Mrs. c  zap me a couple of times.  That usually does it.  If she's not around I get my binoculars and my laser range finder and go outside.  Then I try and pick out something on the mountainside with the binoculars and range it with the range finder.  Sometimes I pick out something too far away or something close enough that doesn't reflect the laser light very well or the mirage effect keeps the unit from working properly or whatever else happens.  In any event, about the farthest I can get a reliable, repeatable reading is maybe 800-900 yards if the conditions are perfect. 

    The last time I actually walked up the mountain to see the object it took me most of a half hour to get there and the object I was ranging was a piece of a rock that caught the sun for a while and became prominent.  It was 29 inches across and 16 inches high at the angle I was seeing it from my yard.  So basically it was a deer torso sized target and it ranged at 844 yards, slightly upslope. Without the aid of my fairly good binoculars I had real trouble picking it out from anything else on the mountainside using my naked eye(s).  If it had been an actual deer I could not have seen it at all if it were standing still and maybe not even if it were moving.  With my best long range rifle I would have still have been roughly 444 yards ( a quarter mile ) farther away than an ethical shot on said deer could have been attempted under those conditions.  Rifle:  Ruger American bolt action in 30/06 Springfield with a Nikon 3x9 variable up top.  Ammo of choice for deer:  Federal Premium 165 grain Nosler Partition bullet.  Me: Old fart, with considerable experience, corrective lenses, decent field shooting skills and an absolute aversion to tracking wounded game over hills and washes and through creosote and catsclaw thickets because I took a questionable shot.

    Point is, a lot of us like to jaw about shooting at long range but actually doing it - particularly doing it effectively can be devilishly hard and frighteningly expensive for the average shooter/hunter.   Its cool to ring steel once in a while out past 900 yards - I've done it but I think there was about equal parts skill and luck on those shots if the truth were known.  Its really hard to find any sort of reasonably priced hunting rig that can be effective on deer sized game at 600 yards and even harder to find hunters capable of using that equipment ethically and effectively.  Paper punchers are expensive too for those who prefer that kind of thing and by the time you get the barrel broken in and a few good loads worked up and a match or two under your belt its time to start thinking about replacing the worn out barrel for a lot of calibers.   :banghead

    Rant off - but I get where you're coming from on the long range project(s)  :cool
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Plebian

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #10 on: October 05, 2019, 06:45:23 pm »
    Quoted for truth.   :thumbup1   

    Whenever I see or hear the word "uncompromising" I wonder if the user knows the definition of the word or if they're just trying to sell something.   :coffee

    Every time I get some sort of delusional hankering for a rifle capable of respectable accuracy and terminal performance at extended ranges - call it 500 to roughly a 1000 yards - I get out the Taser and have Mrs. c  zap me a couple of times.  That usually does it.  If she's not around I get my binoculars and my laser range finder and go outside.  Then I try and pick out something on the mountainside with the binoculars and range it with the range finder.  Sometimes I pick out something too far away or something close enough that doesn't reflect the laser light very well or the mirage effect keeps the unit from working properly or whatever else happens.  In any event, about the farthest I can get a reliable, repeatable reading is maybe 800-900 yards if the conditions are perfect. 

    The last time I actually walked up the mountain to see the object it took me most of a half hour to get there and the object I was ranging was a piece of a rock that caught the sun for a while and became prominent.  It was 29 inches across and 16 inches high at the angle I was seeing it from my yard.  So basically it was a deer torso sized target and it ranged at 844 yards, slightly upslope. Without the aid of my fairly good binoculars I had real trouble picking it out from anything else on the mountainside using my naked eye(s).  If it had been an actual deer I could not have seen it at all if it were standing still and maybe not even if it were moving.  With my best long range rifle I would have still have been roughly 444 yards ( a quarter mile ) farther away than an ethical shot on said deer could have been attempted under those conditions.  Rifle:  Ruger American bolt action in 30/06 Springfield with a Nikon 3x9 variable up top.  Ammo of choice for deer:  Federal Premium 165 grain Nosler Partition bullet.  Me: Old fart, with considerable experience, corrective lenses, decent field shooting skills and an absolute aversion to tracking wounded game over hills and washes and through creosote and catsclaw thickets because I took a questionable shot.

    Point is, a lot of us like to jaw about shooting at long range but actually doing it - particularly doing it effectively can be devilishly hard and frighteningly expensive for the average shooter/hunter.   Its cool to ring steel once in a while out past 900 yards - I've done it but I think there was about equal parts skill and luck on those shots if the truth were known.  Its really hard to find any sort of reasonably priced hunting rig that can be effective on deer sized game at 600 yards and even harder to find hunters capable of using that equipment ethically and effectively.  Paper punchers are expensive too for those who prefer that kind of thing and by the time you get the barrel broken in and a few good loads worked up and a match or two under your belt its time to start thinking about replacing the worn out barrel for a lot of calibers.   :banghead

    Rant off - but I get where you're coming from on the long range project(s)  :cool

    I tend to only shot coyotes out past 500 yards or so. I have only shot one deer past 500 and it was sitting at 625 on a dead still air morning on a wheat field at a distance I could judge down to the yard. One shot and it fell where it was grazing, but that is a rare occasion. It is just too difficult for me to dope wind well enough to feel comfortable much past 500.

    I can range find good enough, do the math for holdover, and shoot the rifle. The wind is what kills me. Doping wind is some weird voodoo of eye-balling mirage down range, looking at grass/leaves and holding your tongue just right to know what it is doing downrange. It can be pretty humbling to miss a sheet of plywood completely at 1000 yards, but anyone that has shot that far knows it is stupid easy to do so.

    Anyone that tells me it is easy to make hits at 1k I tend to give the skeptical hippo eyes.
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    coelacanth

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #11 on: October 05, 2019, 11:40:20 pm »
    Agreed.  Your shot at just over 600 is about 100 yards farther than I've ever shot anything - even a coyote.  I generally use a .243 Winchester these days for anything smaller than mule deer and its pretty capable at those ranges if you can figure out the wind.  I find that reading a heat mirage is just as bad for me as trying to read the wind on some shots.  The gun and the load might be capable of making a clean kill on a pronghorn antelope or coyote way out across the grassland but if the animal is sometimes disappearing in the heat shimmer even when standing still I'm saving that bullet for a better shot. 

    We have some group shoots here and the place we go has a hillside out at about 1200 yards.  One of the guys in the group is probably the best long range shooter I've ever seen operate under field conditions.  He runs a about a 20x - 24x scope on a custom rifle chambered in Remington 7mm SAUM - hand loaded for the rifle.   Shooting prone off a bipod and a bag he can make the rest of us look pretty silly out at that range but even he sometimes rolls over, stands up and says "Maybe it will settle down in a few minutes.".  When you see a wind flag blowing one way at the target and the one at the firing line blowing the opposite way, well,  its way cheaper and less frustrating to light a cigar and relax for a bit than to keep spraying high dollar bullets all over the hillside. 
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    LowKey

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #12 on: October 06, 2019, 09:26:46 pm »
    For such conditions area effect, indirect fire weapons were created. ;)

    Agreed.  Your shot at just over 600 is about 100 yards farther than I've ever shot anything - even a coyote.  I generally use a .243 Winchester these days for anything smaller than mule deer and its pretty capable at those ranges if you can figure out the wind.  I find that reading a heat mirage is just as bad for me as trying to read the wind on some shots.  The gun and the load might be capable of making a clean kill on a pronghorn antelope or coyote way out across the grassland but if the animal is sometimes disappearing in the heat shimmer even when standing still I'm saving that bullet for a better shot. 

    We have some group shoots here and the place we go has a hillside out at about 1200 yards.  One of the guys in the group is probably the best long range shooter I've ever seen operate under field conditions.  He runs a about a 20x - 24x scope on a custom rifle chambered in Remington 7mm SAUM - hand loaded for the rifle.   Shooting prone off a bipod and a bag he can make the rest of us look pretty silly out at that range but even he sometimes rolls over, stands up and says "Maybe it will settle down in a few minutes.".  When you see a wind flag blowing one way at the target and the one at the firing line blowing the opposite way, well,  its way cheaper and less frustrating to light a cigar and relax for a bit than to keep spraying high dollar bullets all over the hillside.

    coelacanth

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #13 on: October 06, 2019, 09:56:57 pm »
    You are correct sir.   :cool    At one time I lived in fairly close proximity to the Bynum Ordinance Depot ( since renamed the Anniston Army Depot ) and the Pelham Artillery Range.  Occasionally what appeared to be an afternoon or evening thunderstorm flashing and rumbling in the distance was, in fact, such weapons and their crews at work honing their technique.  Marvelous stuff.   :thumbup1
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Mikee5star

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #14 on: November 29, 2019, 09:19:13 pm »


    Yes I know the dreaded tube.  But some interesting conclusions that pertain to previous discussions. 

    After all Karl and Ian's discussion and conclusions, I want to get an Acro and figure out how to put it on a P365.  Service pistol reliability, and capacity (old school) in a micro size.  I will turn something not shot in a longish while into an Acro someday soon.
    Alaska

    coelacanth

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    Re: Springfield Armory Hellcat
    « Reply #15 on: November 30, 2019, 12:40:22 am »
    Good video.  Thanks for posting it.   :thumbup1
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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