Author Topic: SA 35 (Read 10706 times)

sohmdaddy · « **on:** October 29, 2021, 05:53:32 pm »

DUDE

Springfield is bringing back the Hi Power. I am excited. I feel like it is a second chance for me to get one of these bad boys.

And if you think there is no market for a soft recoiling, single-action, high capacity, 9mm handgun then may I refer you to the Staccato company.

If someone wants to buy an extra and hold on to one for me while I save up money, then I can buy it from you later.

WeTheArmed.com

sqlbullet · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2021, 05:59:07 pm »

They have been going on gunbroker for about 80% over retail. Clearly there is a market. Currently I have four different flavors of hi power and they are all great!

sohmdaddy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2021, 06:10:13 pm »

Quote from: sqlbullet on October 29, 2021, 05:59:07 pm

They have been going on gunbroker for about 80% over retail. Clearly there is a market. Currently I have four different flavors of hi power and they are all great!

Almost the perfect gun to teach someone how to shoot. Barely any recoil. Super mild and enjoyable as long as the hammer doesn't bite you, but that has long been a non-problem.

coelacanth · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2021, 03:07:46 pm »

They fit me well. The first one I ever shot ( a stock Browning commercial model ) and I shot better with it than I did my first 1911A in .45ACP.

I think they are going to sell a lot of these. It will also be interesting to see what the SA Custom Shop might do based on the basic pistol design.

Raptor · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2021, 05:16:37 pm »

On the one hand... YAAAAAA!!!! New Hi-Power!!!!!

On the other hand... eh? Not really a fan of Springfield Armory. Nothing to do with their politics, but after owning that Range Officer Compact .45 for several years and having fired several other SA handguns since I started shooting, I've become less-than-impressed with Springfield. I've found their fit, finish, and overall QC to generally be lacking behind other brands' offerings in the same price range.

Who knows? Maybe SA will surprise me with this one.

coelacanth · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2021, 11:43:47 pm »

The pistol the SA 35 is modeled after was never known to be a match grade piece as issued. It was a military sidearm and roughly on par with a GI 1911A1 in terms of fit and finish - particularly the military contract guns. A few exceptions come to mind - the Canadian tangent sight Inglis is one, as were some of the post war commercial Browning guns assembled under contract by FN - but there were an awful lot of those pistols that needed considerable work to make them into reliable carry guns.

Springfield Armory hasn't always had the best reputation for build quality but if they put out a solid rendition of the P 35 it would go a long way toward changing that impression. The last gun I owned from them was one of the Saint AR pattern rifles and it always ran well for me and reliably for me. YMMV.

sqlbullet · « **Reply #6 on:** November 01, 2021, 10:44:33 am »

I found the cure to hammer bite on my mill. Just remove a bit of metal from the hammer and I was in heaven. Cylinder and Slide sells "no-bite" hammers that have the same thing done as a part of manufacture.

coelacanth · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2021, 04:41:51 pm »

Yup. Theirs works well. A buddy did his own by contouring that same area below the hammer spur and the removed part of the hammer spur as well. A bit of polishing and a trip to the bluing tank and it looks like it came that way from the factory and it probably should have.

sqlbullet · « **Reply #8 on:** November 02, 2021, 10:07:30 am »

Anyone have a idea what is going on with this one:

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/914760024

$1525.00 seems way more than excessive.

booksmart · « **Reply #9 on:** November 02, 2021, 10:28:44 am »

Quote from: sqlbullet on November 02, 2021, 10:07:30 am

Anyone have a idea what is going on with this one:

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/914760024

$1525.00 seems way more than excessive.

More'n a little. MSRP is $699, IIRC. Trying to get in on low serial number collectability?

ksuguy · « **Reply #10 on:** November 02, 2021, 10:30:45 am »

Idiots that are suffering from a bad case of "gotta have it now". It does look like a nice gun to add to the collection at normal prices, but paying more than double MSRP is just stupid. Especially since Hi Powers are not particularly rare. You could probably find an original one for less money.

I also wish it was someone other than Springfield making it. They still haven't addressed their political sell out a few years back.

coelacanth · « **Reply #11 on:** November 02, 2021, 02:04:23 pm »

True. It is hard for me to imagine keeping and updating the list of companies and corporations I have reason to avoid doing business with today.

I imagine more than a few folks are going to overlook that or make believe they were/are unaware of it.

Raptor · « **Reply #12 on:** November 02, 2021, 02:16:52 pm »

Was there ever a straight answer on whether that lobbying group pushed for that carve-out with the knowledge/at the specific direction of Springfield and/or Rock River? I know that both companies pulled funding from that lobbying group and Springfield later cut ties with Dick's after that company went full anti-2A, but I never got a clear picture of exactly what SA's specific role with that lobbying group was.

ksuguy · « **Reply #13 on:** November 02, 2021, 03:05:14 pm »

I'm pretty sure both companies had insiders or family members involved with that group. Neither one of them addressed it well.

sqlbullet · « **Reply #14 on:** November 03, 2021, 11:00:00 am »

Quote from: ksuguy on November 02, 2021, 10:30:45 am

Idiots that are suffering from a bad case of "gotta have it now". It does look like a nice gun to add to the collection at normal prices, but paying more than double MSRP is just stupid. Especially since Hi Powers are not particularly rare. You could probably find an original one for less money.

This is spot on. You can get a Hi Power with a waffenamt for this kinda money, though not in pristine condition. Also Canadian Inglis with Tangent sights. I even found one that is probably a Chinese contract gun that never left Canada for under 2K.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/915035669

Raptor · « **Reply #15 on:** November 26, 2021, 11:42:25 am »

BH Spring Solutions has done/is doing (I'm not sure if they're finished yet) an in-depth, high-round count test & evaluation of the SA-35. I'm reading through the print version of their initial report and working my way through my way through the multi-part YouTube video series now.

So far... my take is that they generally like the SA-35, but they've identified several "issues" with the pistol that, while relatively easy to correct, are not optimal and could be indicative of poor quality control.

Print copy: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1plKwpL_YPwYE80NGQgNqVBTcrchPDWZl/view

Part 1 of the video series:

coelacanth · « **Reply #16 on:** November 29, 2021, 12:47:02 am »

Good to know. Thanks for posting it.

Kaso · « **Reply #17 on:** November 29, 2021, 09:55:17 am »

Two things I would point out: first, the source of the study that Raptor listed is biased. They offer parts to customize and service this style of pistol, and most of their recommended upgrades are of parts that they sell. This calls into question the validity of their findings, though it certainly does not debunk them.

Second, and more discouraging, is this study seems to validate some of my initial concerns upon seeing this new pistol. The SA-35 appears to have been produced to a price point, and quality has subsequently suffered. This didn't have to happen, but apparently Springfield felt that's selling quantity was better than selling quality. $:-\$

sqlbullet · « **Reply #18 on:** November 29, 2021, 10:59:43 am »

Quote from: Kaso on November 29, 2021, 09:55:17 am

Second, and more discouraging, is this study seems to validate some of my initial concerns upon seeing this new pistol. The SA-35 appears to have been produced to a price point, and quality has subsequently suffered. This didn't have to happen, but apparently Springfield felt that's selling quantity was better than selling quality. $:-\$

What is especially sad about this: The data clearly shows the market is fine with a BHP pistol in the $1,000.00 range. It would have been very nice if they had created a very solid BHP with some excellent QC.

They had the option to get a great trigger, solid safety, and good overall fitment for reliable function with a little bit of traditional fit and polish level of work. Instead we get the typical shortcuts of reduced power springs to reduce perceived operating weights and larger tolerances to allow less critical fit of parts.

Raptor · « **Reply #19 on:** November 29, 2021, 11:35:07 am »

Quote from: Kaso on November 29, 2021, 09:55:17 am

Two things I would point out: first, the source of the study that Raptor listed is biased. They offer parts to customize and service this style of pistol, and most of their recommended upgrades are of parts that they sell. This calls into question the validity of their findings, though it certainly does not debunk them.

Second, and more discouraging, is this study seems to validate some of my initial concerns upon seeing this new pistol. The SA-35 appears to have been produced to a price point, and quality has subsequently suffered. This didn't have to happen, but apparently Springfield felt that's selling quantity was better than selling quality. $:-\$

Agreed on the potential bias.

Two things I would like to add: First, BHSS did note that the slide serrations seem to extend into the extractor cutout in the slide and appear to be leaving marks on the extractor. Second, GarandThumb has received an SA-35 for review and has been posting about it on Instagram. When he first received the pistol, he noted "scaling" in the finish on his slide and odd wear marks on the hammer that appeared just from from dry-firing the pistol. His last update was approximately 2,000 rounds into his evaluation, and he's reporting odd failures to extract that (if I'm understanding his posts correctly) he hasn't been able to diagnose the cause of. FTE's started about 800 rounds in, once every 2-3 magazines with multiple types of ammo. Extractor appears to not be catching/holding onto the rim, but he can't figure out why. He reports cleaning out the extractor channel at 1,500 rounds, but the FTE's continue

I agree: it looks like SA build this to a price point, which is extremely disappointing. They could've charged a tiny bit more for quality QC (and non-proprietary sight dovetails. Seriously, SA?!) and turned out a great out-of-the-box pistol... but they didn't.

coelacanth · « **Reply #20 on:** November 29, 2021, 05:29:36 pm »

All good points. While I agree that BHSS has a dog in the fight, being able to back up what you say with hard data helps allay the concerns they have a thumb on the scale. SA has always been a producer that markets products to a "price point ". Nothing I've seen or heard about the SA 35 changes my perception about that in any way. That said, those of us who have been around since Colt was producing 1911's for the commercial market are well acquainted with that practice. SA is not the first to do it nor will they be the last.

It seems they have bet on their customer base going all in for a pistol that still needs work instead of producing a top notch pistol and charging what its worth. If the thinking is to occupy a niche just below what the market for FN's is and making up the difference on volume it may work for them. It isn't that they can't produce a top notch product its just that they don't feel the need to in so many cases.

An awful lot of today's shooters have grown up without ever having fired a Browning Hi Power and if the SA 35 turns out to be just another heavy, old school turd in need of polishing they won't give it a second look. It will join the rest of the also rans that SA has become famous for producing over the years.

Kaso · « **Reply #21 on:** November 29, 2021, 07:32:01 pm »

Quote from: coelacanth on November 29, 2021, 05:29:36 pm

If the thinking is to occupy a niche just below what the market for FN's is and making up the difference on volume it may work for them. It isn't that they can't produce a top notch product its just that they don't feel the need to in so many cases.

Exactly this. And it is a real shame. They could have priced them at $1000, instead of $700, invested two bills into making it an out of the box, ready to go combat-ready pistol, AND pocketed the remaining Benjamin. Had they gone this route, I would have picked one up for on duty belt carry. But not if it is half assed.

RetroGrouch · « **Reply #22 on:** November 30, 2021, 12:14:57 am »

I’ve gotta say, the reviewer found issues with the gun, but instead of contacting the manufacturer, they started replacing parts with their own. As soon as they did that, the rest of the review kind of got tainted. Good info on the non-standard BHP parts SA used, but they replaced the fire control with an SFS setup, which really changes a lot. Ditto for the barrel. I don’t have that big a problem with sights or sight cuts being proprietary, as that has been common on a lot of firearms. The extractor issues are good to know, what I want to see in a longer term review.

So I think I want to wait until a more neutral party I trust does a review on one they keep stock. Or I find one for a decent price new and see for my self.

I don’t have a problem with things being built to a price point, it’s how capitalism works. And then people start businesses to “fix” what the factory produced, for those of us who care.

sqlbullet · « **Reply #23 on:** November 30, 2021, 09:49:25 am »

You are not wrong, but in fairness to BHSpringSolutions they said right at the outset their purpose was to determine parts compatibility and the viability of the platform for a high end custom build. That is their business, so it makes sense that is the lens through which they see the world.

IMHO, all you really need to know about this gun from the BH review is this: It will require work if you want to bet your life on this gun. If you want a safe-queen/range toy that looks nice and checks the P-35 box in your collection, this is a fine option.

Chief45 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 30, 2021, 10:26:49 am »

noticed that Brownell's had a Tech Talk video up on youtube about the SA35 yesterday. they did not appear to have any major concerns. so, YMMV