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Author Topic: Favorite .357 Loads  (Read 20025 times)

NukMed

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Re: Favorite .357 Loads
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2015, 01:16:40 am »
NM, you have restored my faith in humanity

It's a gift, and I'm a giver.   :cool
Freedom trumps fear.  Rights trump security.  Free will trumps order.

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    goatroper

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #26 on: October 25, 2015, 01:25:33 am »
    It's a gift, and I'm a giver.   :cool

     :clap
    VirginiaGoatroper

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #27 on: October 25, 2015, 01:27:45 am »
    Responding to Nightcrawler's post earlier:  Haven't tried it much in handguns, but my Ruger 77/357 really likes the American Eagle 158-gr JSPs.  Accurate at 100 yds.

    I used to carry something similar in my 686+, but I recently was taught by SLM that they have very poor expansion out of a handgun. I carried PMC bronzeline JSP. I don't get wrapped up much over expansion this or that, but what does matter to me is that over penetration becomes a real possibility. Safety is priority!  :cool
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    strangelittleman

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #28 on: October 25, 2015, 10:57:24 am »
      Yes the 158gr JSPs are great in a rifle, or a 6" bbl (or longer) revolver intended to hunt medium-sized game, but in a revolver intended for self-defense/EDC, they are a dangerous liability.
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    Kaso

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #29 on: October 25, 2015, 11:34:19 am »
    So I get all excited when I see that SLM has posted in the '.357 loads' thread, only to find out that he has not posted any favorite loadings...   :eh  :bash



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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #30 on: October 25, 2015, 12:14:01 pm »
      Oh, yeah, I forgot about that part....I only shoot full-power .357mags out of L-frames/GP100s or larger... the attenuated loads (and .38Spl+P/ +P+) are for Scandium framed or K-framed revolvers.

      Self Defense: Full-power: Any major manufacturer's 125gr JHP. Winchester 145gr Slivertip. Federal 158gr JHP.
                          Attenuated: Federal & Winchester 110gr JHP, PMC 150gr Starfire, Remington Medium-Velocity 125gr & Golden Saber,
                                            Speer Gold Dot SB 135gr.
             Hunting: Federal 158gr JSP. (Only load I've used, haven't hunted in 20yrs, not qualified to speak on it.)
             Training: CCI/Speer 158gr Blazer, or any other .357 mag ammo I can find cheaply that recoils like carry load.       

    Reloading: I haven't reloaded in quite a few yrs, but I worked up some very accurate, high velocity loads and a very smooth
                    ".38/44 type" load w/ a 158gr LSWCHP at 1,100fps/420fpe that was terrific, but tricky to load safely with a reduced load of
                     10.0 gr of Blue Dot in a Magnum case that required the projectile to be loaded deeply in order to fill space in the
                     case....pain in the ass, but with great results, very accurate.
    « Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 12:27:56 pm by strangelittleman »
    Semper Gumby.....Always Flexible.
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    Grant

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #31 on: October 25, 2015, 06:24:18 pm »
       RE: The American Eagle .357's, 158 JSP's...they're some of the hottest "mainstream" factory ammo out there.      [email protected]$26  Versus [email protected]$24 for Buffalo bores.    They're also very accurate, I can literally stack that ammo in one hole-touching group at 25 yards.  I cannot do that with Remington's 125 SJHP or the PPU ammunition. 
     (From this thread)
     https://wethearmed.com/gear-and-accessories/got-a-chrony-today/
      Six inch barreled Security Six: 1301-1325FPS.   
     2.75" Snub Security Six:  1155-1180 (and that day it was running 20-25FPS slow).

      And a selection of chronied loads: (all of these are roughly 20-25FPS slower than real velocity).
    CCI Blazer .357 JHP 158 grain.
     Ruger Security Six 2.75" barrel.   880-900
    Ruger Security Six 6" barrel.   914-945

    PPU 158 grain .357 JHP.
    Ruger Security Six 2.75" barrel.  1154-1162
    Ruger Security Six 6" barrel.  1220-1235

    Remington 125 SJHP .357 mag "manstopper".
    Ruger Security Six 2.75" barrel.  1345-1352
    Ruger Security Six 6" barrel. 1612-1650

    Remington 125 SJHP +P .38 special:
    Ruger Security Six 2.75" barrel.  886-888 (literally all 5 shots
    S&W 10-5 2.5" snubnose. 800-804

    Remington 110 JHP .38 special.
    S&W 10-5 2.5" barrel.   720-755

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    My main loads I use in .357 are:

    .38 reloads. 158 LSWC over 3.5 grains of bullseye.   Cheap, mild plinkers.

    .357 American Eagle 158 JSP's out of my full size Security Six.   

    .357 PPU 158 JHP's out of my 2.75" Security Six.    They are not as hot, but they expand well, group good, and are not pipsqueaks out of the short barrel, but still controllable. My main concealed carry weapon and load.  Also pack it for work most days as well.

    I have a stash of the Remington SJHP 125 grainers that I ain't shot, just because the above three loads have worked so well for me.


     I plan on loading up a bunch of my .357 brass using 180 grain hardcasts loaded up to around 1050-1100FPS, probably H110 powder.  I don't want to lead the barrels, so I figured I'd go as heavy a bullet as I could and load it to around that speed.
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Nightcrawler

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #32 on: October 25, 2015, 09:59:57 pm »
      Yes the 158gr JSPs are great in a rifle, or a 6" bbl (or longer) revolver intended to hunt medium-sized game, but in a revolver intended for self-defense/EDC, they are a dangerous liability.

    You say "dangerous liability", I say "effective against crowds".   >:D

    It's probably because of the soft point bullet, designed for deep penetration on game.  If they put a good jacketed hollow point on top of that powder charge, they'd probably have something less likely to shoot through two or three people at once.

    I've shot my share of Blazer 158 grain aluminum cased .357.  It is, I think, a mild loading.  Probably less than 1200 feet per second from a 4" tube.  Relatively inexpensive, though.

    For bulk practice with actual .357, I like S&B 158 grain full metal jacket.  It's not super hot, and a pointed-tip FMJ guarantees about the worst terminal ballistics, but for range use it's great.
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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #33 on: October 25, 2015, 10:25:33 pm »
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Chief45

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #34 on: October 26, 2015, 10:10:08 am »
    back many many moons ago (1980 to 85),  during the Hunter Pistol competition days,  I used a Ruger Blackhawk in .357 mag.   I had a source for LSW that consistently ran at 165 gr, and loaded them in front of 6.2 gr of Unique.  never had access to a chrono, so I had no idea other than a general range from the tables in the Hodgdon book.   just made up several loads in various powder weights and tried them.

    What was most interesting for me was,  I never adjusted my sights, just my point of aim.  dead on at 25 and 50 meters,  slightly higher at 75m and top of the back on the rams at 100m.   and that round had sufficient power to take a ram off the rail with no problems. 

    I was also just about the only shooter using iron open sights also.  everyone else was using some kind of optic, either a pistol scope or an Aimpoint.  I had nothing against optics, just my choice was loading ammunition and shooting, or having a fancy optic and no ammo.    :shrug





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    scarville

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #35 on: October 26, 2015, 09:19:04 pm »
    Responding to Nightcrawler's post earlier:  Haven't tried it much in handguns, but my Ruger 77/357 really likes the American Eagle 158-gr JSPs.  Accurate at 100 yds.

    I can second the usefulness of the AE 158 gr JSP.  It is not the cleanest ammo around but it consistently does just over 1800 fps from my Marlin 1894.  The closet I've come to that with a hand load is a Hornady 158 gr XTP over 18.0 gr of 300MP.  That actually beats the AE by a little at 1840 fps and was a lot cleaner.
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    strangelittleman

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #36 on: October 26, 2015, 09:22:45 pm »
    I can second the usefulness of the AE 158 gr JSP.  It is not the cleanest ammo around but it consistently does just over 1800 fps from my Marlin 1894.  The closet I've come to that with a hand load is a Hornady 158 gr XTP over 18.0 gr of 300MP.  That actually beats the AE by a little at 1840 fps and was a lot cleaner.

      I too, have found the Federal/American Eagle 158gr. JSP to be excellent in my Marlin 1984CP. Very accurate and approx: 1,800fps out of it's 16.5"bbl.
    Semper Gumby.....Always Flexible.
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    Nightcrawler

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #37 on: October 27, 2015, 03:32:41 am »
    Thank you for sharing all this info, guys, especially the chronograph results.  Most revolver ammo is tested from an 8" vented barrel, so it can be hard to gauge how it performs out of real guns.
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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #38 on: October 27, 2015, 10:05:41 pm »
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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #39 on: October 27, 2015, 10:42:13 pm »
      Why was the AE JSP the only bullet they didn't show  :eh   I'm not doubting it isn't the bestest expanding self defence bullet but....why not?

       
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #40 on: October 28, 2015, 03:27:45 pm »
    Favorite .357 load?  Hmm.  Don't know yet.  Haven't worked it up.  I know, I know.  Why am I bothering to respond then?   :shrug

    It involves a 173gr Keith wadcutter, but at the moment, that's all I've decided.  I need to get a bunch more cast up, and then see what it likes as a propellant and in what quantities.  It will be cheap to shoot though.  Easily under $4/50 rounds.
    Oregon

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #41 on: October 29, 2015, 02:47:14 am »
    Grant, from your readings, the Blazer .357 is pretty lame. Me a than 900 feet per second from a snubby barrel? You might as well shoot .38.

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #42 on: October 29, 2015, 08:30:15 am »
    Grant, from your readings, the Blazer .357 is pretty lame. Me a than 900 feet per second from a snubby barrel? You might as well shoot .38.

    Yeah, I used to use it a bit and thought it was around their published velocity (Blazer alumy was supposed to be 1150FPS) and just thought it was below that fire and recoil threshold but....yeah.  I chronographed it and was like "what the...........?"    Got a couple boxes I ain't burned yet, but pretty much switched over to AE and PPU in my .357's.   

       Plan on reloading once I have a large batch to do at once.   I don't like loading for 100 round lots so whenever I get 300-400 cases I'll load a batch of 180 hardcasts. 
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #43 on: October 29, 2015, 08:53:23 am »
    This is a bit off topic, but I don't know if it merits its own thread:

    What .357 magnum velocities are considered 'respectable,' vs. watered down?  How about out of a short barrel? (3" or less)



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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #44 on: October 29, 2015, 01:06:16 pm »
    This is a bit off topic, but I don't know if it merits its own thread:

    What .357 magnum velocities are considered 'respectable,' vs. watered down?  How about out of a short barrel? (3" or less)

    As with everything else, it really just depends.

    I think you could, with a little bit of arbitrary fudging, divide .357 Magnum loads up into "light", "standard", and "heavy".

    Light would be like the Blazer load, or any of the downloaded .357 loads designed for recoil mitigation.  (Cor-Bon's 125 grain DPX comes to mind.)

    "Standard" would be like the classic 125 SJHP, doing 1450+ from a 4" tube.  Remington 125 grain SJHP.  American Eagle 158 grain JSP. 

    "Heavy" would be the full-power/max load stuff from the boutique ammo makers.  Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, etc.
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    Mississippi556

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #45 on: October 29, 2015, 02:35:27 pm »
    Another recommendation for H-110.  I stupidly sold the revolver many years ago.  But I know it was a max or near max load of H-110 under a 125 grain JHP at about 1600 fps in the barrel.  Don't remember exact length, but probably 5.5-6". 

    Whatever the loading manuals at the time said is what I worked up to, something just short of 22 grains.  It was a Colt SAA that I wish I still had.  I don't exceed consensus max loads as the little extra in fps usually opens up groups and does not increase terminal performance.

    It was intended to be a self defense load.  I shot a rabbit one time with it at about 30 yards.  It simply blew up.  Should not have done it, frankly.  I don't know what I was thinking.  No rabbit stew.
    « Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 02:46:26 pm by Mississippi556 »
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #46 on: October 29, 2015, 03:49:15 pm »
    Another recommendation for H-110.  I stupidly sold the revolver many years ago.  But I know it was a max or near max load of H-110 under a 125 grain JHP at about 1600 fps in the barrel.  Don't remember exact length, but probably 5.5-6". 

    Whatever the loading manuals at the time said is what I worked up to, something just short of 22 grains.  It was a Colt SAA that I wish I still had.  I don't exceed consensus max loads as the little extra in fps usually opens up groups and does not increase terminal performance.

    It was intended to be a self defense load.  I shot a rabbit one time with it at about 30 yards.  It simply blew up.  Should not have done it, frankly.  I don't know what I was thinking.  No rabbit stew.

    That's impressive regarding the effect on hunting game.

    Do you use reloads for self defense? I've always heard that one shouldn't do it, although I'm not exactly sure why.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Mississippi556

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #47 on: October 29, 2015, 04:55:37 pm »
    That's impressive regarding the effect on hunting game.

    Do you use reloads for self defense? I've always heard that one shouldn't do it, although I'm not exactly sure why.

    Well, I always wondered if it was so explosive on the rabbit, whether it might lack penetration on a human, if I ever had to resort to self-defense.

    Regarding reloads, I think that is a personal decision.  I've been reloading for many decades.  I've developed a regimen that gives me a high level of confidence in the reliability and safety of what I do.  Once I get a load developed, I tend to stay with it and don't vary recipe or components. 

    I can see the other point of view that a break in technique might produce unreliable results, or that mismatched components could adversely affect either reliability or terminal ballistics, or that failure to crimp properly might cause recoil induced bullet set back of other rounds and produce excessively high chamber pressures.  The list of possible reasons not to trust reloads can be quite long.

    I don't trust anyone else's reloads.  Let me say it that way.  I have complete trust in my own because, frankly, I have a bit more than the typical obsessive compulsive traits!   Reloaders need this, IMHO.  For defense loads, for instance, I do not even use my bulk powder dispenser or turret press, (I don't have a progressive) I hand weigh every powder charge and use my press in single stage mode.  I will not load defensive ammo if there are any distractions.  I want to control every aspect of the operation.  That's just me.  For FMJ practice ammo my regimen is much more geared toward speed and efficiency in the process.

    Sorry for the wall of text.

    BTW:  While I got no rabbit stew after that shot, I did cut down on the damage being done to my vegetable garden.  So, it was not all bad.  Were I intentionally trying to put a rabbit on the table, I would have used a .22LR or a a shotgun with #6 shot.  The rabbit just happened by when I was carrying out back and . . . curiosity got the best of me.
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #48 on: October 29, 2015, 05:05:36 pm »
    No reason to apologise for the wall of text, I was curious and it was good info!  :thumbup1
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    Re: Favorite .357 Loads
    « Reply #49 on: October 29, 2015, 06:27:44 pm »
    Do you use reloads for self defense? I've always heard that one shouldn't do it, although I'm not exactly sure why.

    I've always understood the reasoning to be (speaking as the prosecuting attorney): "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it wasn't enough that the defendant shot the victim (armed robber though he may have been) five times.  Not only did he shoot the victim five times, but he used ammunition that he hand crafted to be more deadly, more damaging, than anything commercially available." 

    Now, that may or may not be true of your particular reloads.  Probably not, especially if you're loading SWC rounds or shooting less than max loads behind reasonable bullets.  But if you're loading top end, hotter than recommended max loads, with bullets that have been intentionally chosen for the damage they do, then yeah, you might have a concern.  Find out what the cops use, and don't use anything that's gonna cause more damage, and you should be good.  As in all things on the internet, YMMV, and IANAL.  And this advice is worth what you paid for it. 
    Oregon

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