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Weapons and Gear => Handguns => Topic started by: Gundoc on January 20, 2009, 11:50:46 pm

Title: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on January 20, 2009, 11:50:46 pm
Ok, guys. In response to your requests I'm here to answer. Todays pistols are really built well. There is acutally very little the average consumer needs to keep on hand. Here's the short list though.

Mags- ok that was a little obvious.

Recoil springs- the biggest must. You should cycle through these about every 5000 rounds. More than anything else the recoil springs just get worked to death. This is especially true with guns like the Glock with their plastic recoil spring guides.

For striker fired pistols (Glock, XD, Kahr) you might want to get ahold of a striker and striker spring. These, depending on your skill level, you will want to have someone install or have them teach you to do so.

Well folks, we're done here. Like I said these days they are built well and there is little the average person need keep on hand.
More to come...
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: mnw42 on January 24, 2009, 04:45:47 pm
A good source for springs is Wolff in Newtown Square, PA (http://www.gunsprings.com/ (http://www.gunsprings.com/)).  They offer complete spring kits for many guns.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on January 24, 2009, 06:34:32 pm
Thats a good resource, thanks. Brownells is another good source. They have a whole section for factory parts.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: g.willikers on January 25, 2009, 09:10:08 pm
An extra extractor might be a good idea. They get a lot of action and occasionally bite the dust.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on January 26, 2009, 03:43:09 pm
An extra extractor might be a good idea. They get a lot of action and occasionally bite the dust.

Depends on the gun and it's set up. For an external extractor it would be a good idea to have an extra spring but you may or may not trust yourself to do the installation. Thats why that was left out. For a 1911 internal extractor that's something every owner should know. By all means keep an extra. They wear out about every 5000 rounds.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: HideWithPride on January 26, 2009, 04:14:30 pm
Replace the recoil spring every 5000 rounds?  Holy crap!  I've got a Glock with over 100k through it with only the sights replaced - looks like I need to bring it in for a much need 400,000 mile tune-up . . .
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Beamish on January 26, 2009, 04:33:22 pm
I've got a Glock with over 100k through it with only the sights replaced - looks like I need to bring it in for a much need 400,000 mile tune-up . . .
You probably should.

Shep at LRI handed his Glock to Firemoth (their gunsmith) and told him it wasn't running right.  Two minutes later, Rob (Firemoth) comes over to us and holds up a spring, "This is a new Glock recoil spring" then he holds up another spring that is at least an inch shorter, "This is the recoil spring from your Glock.  Do you think we found the problem?"

The Glock still ran - which is a testament to its functional design, but it had hiccups and occasional issues.  It was completely related to a part that was super easy to replace on a preventative schedule. 
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: HideWithPride on January 26, 2009, 04:46:44 pm
Wilco - thanks, Beamish
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on January 26, 2009, 05:14:40 pm
Been there done that, Beamish. I had one of the DOE instuctors come to me with pistol problems. He did his best explaining what it was/wasn't doing. I checked the spring. Same deal. It was atleast an inch too short. I replaced it and got it back to him. I told him what was wrong and frankly he didn't really believe the new guy. After he turned in his pistol that night I had proven myself, gained their trust, and a score of new friends.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: james_bond on January 31, 2009, 11:34:51 pm
Ok recoil springs, got it , but what "power"?
For example: I got a Springfield XD-45 Tactical (5 inch) (love it by the way 1750+ rounds and not a single problem at all)
With my gun I shoot mostly Winchester White Box, Brass Blazers, Sellier & bellot, or whatever is on sale. However I  have and keep hollow point in +p for home/personal defence, (and yes I always run some through my gun to make sure they function well.)

So off this gunsprings.com website
Quote
RECOIL SPRINGS are available in load-rated specifications to adjust the recoil function to individual needs. Each load rated recoil spring includes a factry strength striker spring.  Springs are available individually or with a guide rod.  Springs are for the XD 5" models in .45 ACP only.

Reduced Power...: 14 and 16 Lb.

Factory Standard.: 18.5 Lb.

Extra Power........:  20 Lb

So my question boils down to this ....Should I stay at the factory 18.5 lb power, reduce to the 14 and 16 lb or go big for the 20 pounder? and why or why not?

thanks
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on January 31, 2009, 11:41:56 pm
I would stay with the the factory spring or the 16. You would only need the 20 lb if you are shooting +P or other hot loads. If you are going to go light on springs go with the trigger or main springs. Those will lighten the trigger. You having an XD don't really have a main spring but the trigger can be tweeked without that spring.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: james_bond on January 31, 2009, 11:51:39 pm
thanks gundoctor, I assumed factory was my safest bet, but didn't even know about what other sprigs to keep around.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on February 01, 2009, 12:12:32 am
Glad to help out. Any further questions...always glad to help anytime.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Thernlund on February 01, 2009, 02:27:36 am
Recoil springs- the biggest must. You should cycle through these about every 5000 rounds. More than anything else the recoil springs just get worked to death. This is especially true with guns like the Glock with their plastic recoil spring guides.

For striker fired pistols (Glock, XD, Kahr) you might want to get ahold of a striker and striker spring. These, depending on your skill level, you will want to have someone install or have them teach you to do so.

I have a question.  Maybe there is no answer, or possibly you don't know, but I'll throw it out there.

The springs in the valves in your car go through 5000+ cycles in a much more brutal environment just by you taking a trip down the block.  How are gun springs different than the springs in you cars engine?  And... why aren't gun springs made of the same stuff or in the same way so as to be more durable and last longer?


-T.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on February 01, 2009, 02:36:32 am
I have a question.  Maybe there is no answer, or possibly you don't know, but I'll throw it out there.

The springs in the valves in your car go through 5000+ cycles in a much more brutal environment just by you taking a trip down the block.  How are gun springs different than the springs in you cars engine?  And... why aren't gun springs made of the same stuff or in the same way so as to be more durable and last longer?


-T.
I don't know about the valve springs. As far as recoil springs go...eventually any spring will gain a memory of sorts. The more use it goes through the more it wants to be in that shorter shape. When it looses about an inch in length It looses the ability to force the slide far enough forward causing several different malfunctions. Now the spring hasn't lost the ability to function as a spring and I would venture to say that it is still the same strength. It is just too short now.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: PrivateJoker on February 01, 2009, 02:37:51 am
I would stay with the the factory spring or the 16. You would only need the 20 lb if you are shooting +P or other hot loads. If you are going to go light on springs go with the trigger or main springs. Those will lighten the trigger. You having an XD don't really have a main spring but the trigger can be tweeked without that spring.

I'd like to add to that question...I have a 4" XD in .40 S&W, I"m looking to get a .357 SIG barrel from Bar-Sto...Do you think I would need a different weight spring?

Thx in advance!


--Peter
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on February 01, 2009, 02:40:14 am
I'd like to add to that question...I have a 4" XD in .40 S&W, I"m looking to get a .357 SIG barrel from Bar-Sto...Do you think I would need a different weight spring?

Thx in advance!


--Peter
No. You should be just fine. The .357sig is based off the .40S&W casing so the same weight spring will be sufficient for both calibers.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: johnnyboy83 on February 02, 2009, 01:24:50 am
I have a question.  Maybe there is no answer, or possibly you don't know, but I'll throw it out there.

The springs in the valves in your car go through 5000+ cycles in a much more brutal environment just by you taking a trip down the block.  How are gun springs different than the springs in you cars engine?  And... why aren't gun springs made of the same stuff or in the same way so as to be more durable and last longer?


-T.

Car valve springs are (nowdays especially) Hydraulically tensioned for length/pressure. The system takes up enormous loads of slack, and also the ratio of seat pressure (spring tension) vs the mass of the valve it moves is drastically different than a recoil spring. A V8 valve spring has 120-160lbs of seat pressure holding a 5 ounce valve, a recoil spring has 18lbs of pressure holding a 10 oz slide assembly. Since a valve will function with less than the factory seat pressure, the spring has to shorten until the hydraulic system cannot take up any more slack, and THEN the spring begins dropping spring pressure. This may take thousands upon thousands of miles and you tend to hear more and more of a soft ticking from the valve covers on start-up. A recoil spring has no adjustment system and malfunctions when it loses the ability to seat the slide. This may take until +/-30% of the spring is worn out, but it is  more immediately obvious the spring is worn to that point and it takes much less time to get there than the valve spring with hydraulic adjustment.

If you just changed your valve springs on your car at 100,000 miles, you should see anywhere from 10-15 hp. It just isn't as noticeable because the system dampens the degradation over a longer service life. I have seen high mileage or just really old springs be replaced and make a difference in how hard a car pulls to redline and how even the torque band is, even without regrinding the valve seats. The car is not exempt from the effect, but it is slower to see the same results. Also the spring is heat treated silicon steel that weighs half as much as the valve it moves. imagine your recoil spring being half the weight of your slide.

Disclaimer: I am no engineer and as such have not even tried to describe the differences in design more than casual observation.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: mnw42 on February 02, 2009, 09:55:19 am
+1 jonnyboy on a good explanation. 
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Thernlund on February 02, 2009, 01:36:16 pm
Fantastic explanation Johnny.  Thank you very much.  I will likely quote that in the future.


-T.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Harm on February 10, 2009, 06:08:45 pm
Gundoc, I know you specifically mention several striker fired Pistols etc.  What about hammer fired ones like... oh I don't know the Sig P series?  ;D  had the sig bug for more than a few years.  Figured it'd be good to know. 
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on February 10, 2009, 07:10:19 pm
I believe that's in there, just a little more cryptic. I added the striker fired stuff spacifically because their stuff wasn't previosly mentioned.
Here's the list for Sig:
Main (hammer) springs 
2gen's of springs. The only difference is length. This can be handled a couple different ways. Make sure if you have a gen 1 hammer strut you get gen 1 springs.
Quote
www.topgunsupply.com/
here and Sig are the only reliable places to get gen 1 springs. The other is to replace the gen 1 strut with a gen 2 and then any spring you find at Brownells or MidwayUSA will work fine.

Recoil springs

Trigger bar springs.
There are 2 generations of trig bar spr's. Gen 1 bent spring steel wire, gen 2 spring steel wire with a coil in the middle. The gen 1 tends to sheer in the middle once its warn out. Replace it with a gen 2 and that issue goes away. Infact you may not have to ever replace it again.

That basiclly does it. Any other problem I would suggest taking it to a local gunsmith or Sig certified armorer. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: akodo on February 14, 2009, 10:33:50 pm
Quote
Each load-rated recoil spring pak includes an extra power firing pin spring.


how important is replacement of the firing pin spring? how difficult?

Quote
Factory Standard.: 11 Lb.
Extra Power.........: 12, 13, 14 and 16 Lb.


for a gun rated +p, if you shoot +P a lot (or even just some) is it necessary to step up to extra power?  If you rarely use +P would it be smart to just go for a 12lb anyways?

I have the 2 factory mags(15 round) , plus I picked up 4 magtec 17 round mags, about a year ago looking at the political horizon. I know, not as extreme as a lot of you guys.  Still, I have been thinking of expanding my magazine supply  (but of also upgrading from the P95)   except they are expensive.  If I got a pack of standard magazine springs, and had to use them in the magtec mags, would it simply mean they'd be 15 shot mags after that? or would they not work at all?

This is of course assuming that 6 mag springs are better than 1 more spare mag, as they are about the same price.  Would you agree?
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on February 15, 2009, 02:02:45 am


how important is replacement of the firing pin spring? how difficult?
 

for a gun rated +p, if you shoot +P a lot (or even just some) is it necessary to step up to extra power?  If you rarely use +P would it be smart to just go for a 12lb anyways?

I have the 2 factory mags(15 round) , plus I picked up 4 magtec 17 round mags, about a year ago looking at the political horizon. I know, not as extreme as a lot of you guys.  Still, I have been thinking of expanding my magazine supply  (but of also upgrading from the P95)   except they are expensive.  If I got a pack of standard magazine springs, and had to use them in the magtec mags, would it simply mean they'd be 15 shot mags after that? or would they not work at all?

This is of course assuming that 6 mag springs are better than 1 more spare mag, as they are about the same price.  Would you agree?

The firing pin return spring I have never seen go bad. It has a very small job. The standard mag springs will make them 15 rounders. As long as you feel comfortable changing the springs out then That is the route I'd go.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Skeptic49 on February 21, 2009, 09:35:01 am
Tip from an old US Army Small Arms Repairman.  If you have a workbench (Momma don't like having her table messed up) Nail on a stop board on the top or edge, your choice, and stick go/no go lengths of tape for your common springs.  Works best in an Army shop with a LOT of standardization and a boat load of springs.  ;D

Captive springs have their own rules.

Geoff
Who only has to deal with a few spring lengths.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Dustinthewind on March 01, 2009, 11:25:29 am
I am looking for recoil springs for my Springfield Armory Micro Compact G.I. model. I am also looking for recoil springs for my Colt Defender. Seems to be the proverbial needle in a haystack kind of search. Info on where I can get these would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on March 01, 2009, 11:53:53 am
I am looking for recoil springs for my Springfield Armory Micro Compact G.I. model. I am also looking for recoil springs for my Colt Defender. Seems to be the proverbial needle in a haystack kind of search. Info on where I can get these would be greatly appreciated.

If this one http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24872&title=SPRINGFIELD%20CHAMPION%20&%20COMPACT%20RECOIL%20SPRING (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24872&title=SPRINGFIELD%20CHAMPION%20&%20COMPACT%20RECOIL%20SPRING) doesn't work then you will have to call springfield to get it.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Dustinthewind on March 03, 2009, 09:08:24 pm
Thanks Gundoctor. I checked and the Champion is commander sized and takes a longer spring setup. I called Springfield today and was surprised at how helpful they were. Might try Colt tomorrow.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on March 04, 2009, 12:10:13 am
Thanks Gundoctor.

Any time. Glad to help.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: mattitude on August 17, 2011, 01:24:46 am
The firing pin spring is an often forgotten about bugger and thought to serve little purpose but can be important.  If you are using a titanium firing pin then a lighter spring can be used, but with a "stock" firing pin you will need a heavier one...and should be replaced along with the others during a servicing.  Why?  Well, the heavier firing pin builds more inertia when the slide is closing and when it comes to a stop you will need a heavier spring to prevent a slam fire, which *can* happen over time when the spring wears out.  A titanium firing pin on the other hand is very low mass and doesn't need a heavy spring to keep a slam fire from happening.  Another thing is that from repeated dry-firing puts A LOT of stress on the firing pin spring which over time can cause the firing pin opening in the slide to enlarge which can lead to a firing pin getting stuck during shooting which can result in a runaway gun.  In other words, it's always a good idea to replace the firing pin springs BUT be sure to use the correct weight depending on what your firing pin is made of.

how important is replacement of the firing pin spring? how difficult?
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: mnw42 on October 20, 2011, 02:16:55 am
There is a reason why Wolff and others include a new FP spring with every 1911 recoil spring.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: wowser on May 21, 2013, 01:03:45 pm
I always ran 20 lb recoil springs in 1911's and they went much further than any 5000 rds per replacement, as in 40,000 rds. :-)  However, with the pocket 9's that I now favor, I do keep a very close eye on the recoil spring length, even tho I practice with the PF-9 Keltec (and Twisted industries .22lr unit) and carry the diamondback DB9. The DB gets shot very little, a few dozen rds per month, at most, so that I need not worry about fouling or wear on the EDC.  Such things on the "practice spare" don't worry me much.
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: TexasRebel on October 21, 2016, 07:27:08 pm
Greeting all, hope life is good.....looking for Harrington and Richardson  Revolver cylinders , model 650 22 LR /22 WMRF , any help would be good

Thank you 
Texas Rebel
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: Gundoc on October 21, 2016, 08:24:36 pm
Send me an email  ([email protected]) and I'll look it up for you.

Greeting all, hope life is good.....looking for Harrington and Richardson  Revolver cylinders , model 650 22 LR /22 WMRF , any help would be good

Thank you 
Texas Rebel
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: digiroc on January 23, 2017, 02:36:53 pm
Recoil springs tire with age and use and a weak spring can not only cause loading problems but can also damage pistol frames, especially alloy framed pistols. As a third generation S&W pistol collector this is important for me because being two decades or more out of production means replacing a key part can mean buying another gun. Fortunately spring sets for these out of production guns are available from Wolf and others.

Magazine springs can also weaken and that can cause feeding problems. I rotate my magazines and generally download them by one round to reduce the stress of being fully compacted when loaded for extended periods.

digiroc
Title: Re: Extra parts - pistols
Post by: coelacanth on January 23, 2017, 09:03:48 pm
Good tip.  Some of us have been shooting and collecting guns since they went by names such as the "snaphaunce" but for the less experienced among us the spring thing is a seldom considered twist on the hobby.