WeTheArmed.com

Weapons and Gear => Handguns => Topic started by: Nightcrawler on March 15, 2016, 03:39:46 pm

Title: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Nightcrawler on March 15, 2016, 03:39:46 pm
http://www.brno-defence.com/en/7-5-fk-field-pistol (Currently down)

https://www.all4shooters.com/en/Shooting/pistols/FK-Brno-combat-field-pistol-7-5-mm-caliber/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_DLohiGl0Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_DLohiGl0Y)

It's not often you see something really different in firearms design.  The BRNO 7,5 FK "Field Pistol" is an attempt to really increase the capability of handguns, in terms of both range and ballistic performance.

(https://www.all4shooters.com/en/Shooting/pistols/FK-Brno-combat-field-pistol-7-5-mm-caliber/FK-BRNO-02.jpg?resize=1440x570%3E)

It's a big gun, and heavy, but it represents some refreshing outside the box thinking that I think the gun industry could use more of.

(https://www.all4shooters.com/en/specials/trade-shows-2015/IWA-2015/pistols/FK-Brno-7-5-FK-semi-automatic-pistol/FK-Brno-7-5-1.jpg?resize=1440x570%3E)

https://www.all4shooters.com/en/specials/trade-shows-2015/IWA-2015/pistols/FK-Brno-7-5-FK-semi-automatic-pistol/

Quote
It would take a blind man to miss that long protuberance, similar to a gas tube, located right under the barrel. That's where a metal countermass sits, linked to the return spring; when the gun is fired, the countermass follows the recoil axis and counters it with a downwards pressure, reducing muzzle climb and recoil levels to those akin to, or even lower than, a .45 ACP.

Quote
...the FK Brno semi-automatic handgun design fires the Company's own 7,5 FK bottleneck cartridge, loaded with balls weighing anywhere between 90 and 110 grains in this phase; the 7,5 FK caliber develops muzzle velocity levels of 609,6 metres-per-second (2000 fps), and muzzle energy levels that exceed 1220 Newton/meter (900 ft/lbs).

Domestically, I think such a handgun could run into immediate legal trouble, given that a pointed bullet at that velocity could easily penetrate soft armor.  Giving it a flat-faced bullet typical of handguns would hamper the ballistics.  I'm not sure what the letter of the law is on this matter.

It got me thinking, too...some American companies have experimented with wildcats that also give a step up in performance.  One that comes to mind for me is Gary Reeder's .356 GNR (http://www.reedercustomguns.com/tc/cartridges.htm).  It's basically a .41 Magnum case necked down to a .357 bullet.

(http://www.reedercustomguns.com/tc/encore_images/Gary_a_small.jpg)

Quote
356 GNR, shown here on the left. On the right is the standard factory 357 magnum. This cartridge is a necked down 41 magnum and gives the 357 bullet as much energy as a 44 magnum. Simple to load and no backing out in the cylinder makes the 356 GNR an excellent revolver cartridge for medium sized game. A 125 grain jhp will do almost 2100 fps.

Replace that standard .357 handgun bullet with a Spitzer type bullet and you've basically got a pocket rifle.

Even better would be to chamber in in a bottom-firing revolver, using some recoil-counteracting mechanism in the "over-lug" similar to what the BRNO pistol uses.   :hmm

As is, the .356 GNR is a strictly custom proposition, but comes in some mighty pretty configurations:

(http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/product_images/i/382/PR24765b__40339.jpg)

(http://www.reedercustomguns.net/forum/images/uploaded/2015022421572654ecf3c69cdc5.jpg)

:drool
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: JesseL on March 15, 2016, 03:47:58 pm
US law regarding armor piercing handgun ammo is based purely on bullet construction rather than physical performance.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2012-title18/html/USCODE-2012-title18-partI-chap44-sec921.htm
Quote
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Nightcrawler on March 15, 2016, 03:50:42 pm
US law regarding armor piercing handgun ammo is based purely on bullet construction rather than physical performance.

Hmmm....

I think then the biggest problem would be a very conservative market that often shies away from new things.  That, and shooters who think .40 kicks too much.  They'll repeat the mantra of "all handguns suck", going for a smaller round and opting to shoot more times. 

All handguns may suck, but once you start pushing a slug up to 1800 - 2000 feet per second, the suckage definitely goes down.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: JesseL on March 15, 2016, 04:06:03 pm
All handguns may suck, but once you start pushing a slug up to 1800 - 2000 feet per second, the suckage definitely goes down.

When you're talking about a 100gr bullet that's definitely true. 900 ft-lbs of muzzle energy makes this pretty interesting.

I'm still not sold on the 5.7x28 as more than a prairie dog cartridge though.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: JesseL on March 15, 2016, 04:08:26 pm
It's funny that despite the visual obviousness, nobody seems to have mention that this pistol seems to be based on a CZ-75 style action. Sexy as hell.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Nightcrawler on March 15, 2016, 04:21:54 pm
Quote
I'm still not sold on the 5.7x28 as more than a prairie dog cartridge though.

I agree. It's too small, and a 31-grain bullet is really limited on what you can get out of it.

When you're talking a bullet that weighs three times as much as the same velocity, though, then I think you're onto something.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: MTK20 on March 15, 2016, 04:33:01 pm
The design may be completely different, because that thing is beautiful.

But the enormous size of it brought the H unt K MK 23 mod 0 to mind.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Doug Wojtowicz on March 15, 2016, 04:56:48 pm
The pistol itself is a shiny, sleek CZ looker. 

The cartridge sounds fun too.  I wonder how loud it is.  All that powder under a charge to get all that velocity is going to do some hearing damage if one is not careful.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: RetroGrouch on March 15, 2016, 06:03:16 pm
I really like the way this thing looks, kind of a 1920s-1930s Art Deco appearance.


You are going to need a ballistic tip hollow point bullet, because those bullet weights and velocity are the same as a 30 Carbine or 300 Blackout, and it will over penetrate.

Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Nightcrawler on March 15, 2016, 06:07:06 pm
I really like the way this thing looks, kind of a 1920s-1930s Art Deco appearance.


You are going to need a ballistic tip hollow point bullet, because those bullet weights and velocity are the same as a 30 Carbine or 300 Blackout, and it will over penetrate.

For battlefield use, that's not an issue. It may even be an advantage.

For law enforcement/personal defense, I expect some kind of varmint style fragmenting ballistic tip could be devised.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: ksuguy on March 15, 2016, 07:06:10 pm
I like it.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Mikee5star on March 16, 2016, 01:58:04 am
Now that is kinda cool.  6" 1911 size, CZ looks with 14 rounds of at least .44 mag energy.  Color me interested.  What was the Ransom Rest, 25mm for 4 shots at 100 m.  That is damn fine workmanship.

103 grains is the heavy bullet.  Not so sure.  Did not see what bullet diameter, but 7.5 mm is what about .30 caliber?  Really not so sure. 

It would be fun I am sure, IF production models are available to non mil/leo, and if production models are at the same quality of the test models.  Brno is a quality manufacturer, but how many other models from them are available in the US.  And proprietary ammo?  Unless a major distributor and a major ammo manufacturer gets behind this, it will be a foot note in 5 years and a video on Forgotten Weapons in 10.

All that said, I have no need for one, no use for one, but I still want one.  But it would be a low priority.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Viking on March 16, 2016, 05:34:47 pm
I really like the way this thing looks, kind of a 1920s-1930s Art Deco appearance.


You are going to need a ballistic tip hollow point bullet, because those bullet weights and velocity are the same as a 30 Carbine or 300 Blackout, and it will over penetrate.


First thing that came to mind for me as well. Also, the two guns in the second pictures...the lines reminds me a bit of the FN 1900 pistol.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: only1asterisk on March 16, 2016, 09:51:58 pm
There may be some unintended consequences with the recoil mitigation system, a bigger problem is the nasty concussion from getting .30 Carbine velocities from that barrel length. 
Recoil isn't what would bother me.  The muzzle blast must be epic.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Buckeye Redneck on March 16, 2016, 10:08:56 pm
Dead sexy.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: GeorgeHill on March 17, 2016, 12:39:55 am
 :shocked
The way it knocked that deer down... HOLY CRAP.  I've seen deer that size hit with a .300 Win Mag that didn't go down that hard.
That certain has the lethality. 
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: MTK20 on March 17, 2016, 05:16:39 am
Once this thing is up and running as far as production goes, do you think it'll be legal to us cake eating civilians?  :hmm

I reckon it could be like the 5.7 pistol, "It's unique! Must ban it!". That poor pistol has gotten so much flak politically, due to gun hating politicians thinking it's some sort of instant death laser.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: only1asterisk on March 17, 2016, 10:08:41 am
:shocked
The way it knocked that deer down... HOLY CRAP.  I've seen deer that size hit with a .300 Win Mag that didn't go down that hard.
That certain has the lethality. 


Promotional video  is promotional.  I wonder how many pet deer they had to shoot to get that take. Maybe the guy missed and the muzzle blast knocked the deer out.

It doesn't do anything that can't be duplicated by the .30 Carbine or .300 Blackout SBR.  Assuming, that is, that the 7.5 lives up it's published velocities. 
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Nightcrawler on March 17, 2016, 02:01:02 pm
Quote
It doesn't do anything that can't be duplicated by the .30 Carbine or .300 Blackout SBR.

...except be carried in a holster and fired one-handed.  IF the ballistics numbers are legit and consistent, you're getting borderline rifle performance out of a handgun.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: ksuguy on March 17, 2016, 02:26:49 pm
If they can get ammo availability at least as good as the 5.7, I am sold.  As for the gun itself, looks great.  I think it might be improved with a rounded front on the trigger guard without that pointy bit on there.  Might also tweak the profile of the tube under the barrel. Those are just minor cosmetic things though.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Kaso on March 17, 2016, 03:32:41 pm
If they can get ammo availability at least as good as the 5.7, I am sold.
Remember, it took years on the market before 5.7 ammo was anywhere near what I would call available.  Really, it is only in the past few years that I have seen it outside of niche websites and occasionally at the main LGS.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Nightcrawler on March 17, 2016, 04:49:05 pm
We had no trouble keeping it in stock at FBMG as far back as 2007.  But yeah, it was introduced in the early 1990s, so it took a while.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: ksuguy on March 17, 2016, 05:26:33 pm
Yeah that could be a problem.  I know it seems odd, but I have to wonder if the 5.7s popularity got boosted faster than it would have otherwise when the P90 started showing up on Stargate and in video games all over the place.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Kaso on March 17, 2016, 10:29:15 pm
We had no trouble keeping it in stock at FBMG as far back as 2007.  But yeah, it was introduced in the early 1990s, so it took a while.
That was not my observation around here.  Maybe it was more popular out west?  I would not have called it a reliably available cartridge here until 2010, and 'commonly' available until after the Newtown mess subsided.  Before that, I just never saw it other than at the busiest shops.  Of course, I wasn't specifically looking for it, but I did notice it occasionally.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: steveracer on March 18, 2016, 12:51:18 am
Jeez Mike. That thing sure is pretty. I assume you'll continue to call our attention to oft overlooked handguns, but this one is screaming at me from a great distance.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: only1asterisk on March 18, 2016, 01:32:41 am
...except be carried in a holster and fired one-handed.  IF the ballistics numbers are legit and consistent, you're getting borderline rifle performance out of a handgun.

I was talking more about terminal performance.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: MTK20 on March 18, 2016, 01:06:16 pm
Jeez Mike. That thing sure is pretty. I assume you'll continue to call our attention to oft overlooked handguns, but this one is screaming at me from a great distance.

Well, you should buy one and then if anything else screams at you from great distance "you can engage it easily from 75 to 150 metres, which is very satisfying"  ;).
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Mikee5star on March 18, 2016, 08:17:40 pm
Does BRNO have a US company? Or a full line distributor? Or are their products distributed in the US piecemeal?
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Ken Brock on August 18, 2016, 08:26:30 pm
Looks like it would fit perfectly in a military SciFi movie. Interesting concept and aesthetically pleasing
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: sqlbullet on August 18, 2016, 10:11:07 pm
The gun looks cool and all...

but the performance seems to mirror a bunch of already existant wildcats, many of which are more attainable here in the US.  In an autoloader 9X25 comes to mind, and that is actually pretty easy to get ahold of.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: MTK20 on March 03, 2019, 01:07:45 am
Necro- thread.

I know, I've resurrected something years old  :facepalm .

But there is a reason for it! Now that it has been years, has anyone seen anything on these becoming more mainstream or even seen one in person?

It was brought up in conversation today and I was curious  :hmm .
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: ksuguy on March 03, 2019, 02:02:11 am
In Range had a Shot show video on them a couple weeks ago.   It's a nice gun, but the $7000 MSRP is kind of a deal breaker.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Langenator on March 03, 2019, 09:02:53 am
The bad guy in a couple of Peter Nealen's Brannigan's Blackhearts books carried one.   :coffee
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: ksuguy on March 03, 2019, 12:46:55 pm
Shot Show video from Ian and Karl at InRange. 

https://youtu.be/HQvCDRx9DPg
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: coelacanth on March 03, 2019, 03:02:26 pm
The bad guy in a couple of Peter Nealen's Brannigan's Blackhearts books carried one. 
Hah!  Beat me to it.    :thumbup1

I agree with the comment in the video though - it is, indeed, " the answer to a question nobody was asking.".   :coffee
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: ksuguy on March 03, 2019, 03:10:02 pm
I really like the concept, but I think it might be more cost effective to just do something like a CZ75/Witness and make sure it can handle really hot 7.62x25.  At $7k a piece, the only people that are going to be buying it are the crowd that buys Korths.    That's even drastically more than the high-end 1911 makers charge for premium guns.   
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: coelacanth on March 03, 2019, 03:22:24 pm
I'm pretty sure a RIA 1911 in the .22 TCM will outshoot the Brno for about what you'd pay in sales tax on the 5,7 and probably be just about as effective on a coastal brown bear.  Is the guy demonstrating the pistol in the video really that stupid or does he think we are?  Seriously?  A defense gun for bears?  :facepalm
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: ksuguy on March 03, 2019, 03:24:53 pm
Yeah that's just dumb.   It's a really cool gun, but don't try to say it is something that it clearly isn't.   
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: MTK20 on March 03, 2019, 03:51:51 pm
Shot Show video from Ian and Karl at InRange. 

https://youtu.be/HQvCDRx9DPg

Well that took the wind out of its sails  :-\ .

The concussion is too loud for home defense.
The gun won't beat a .44 magnum for bear country.
A .357 shoots flat if you want a decent hunting/hog gun sidearm.

Basically, one should buy a Ruger wheel gun and remember that whether it is home intruders, bears, or a zombie apocalypse we always answer that question with: shotgun.

I liked the logical and honest review video, but I can't help feeling a little disappointed.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: coelacanth on March 03, 2019, 04:07:12 pm
Reason, logic and honesty are a hard combination to beat regardless the subject matter.  They are particularly useful when dealing with someone who is trying to separate you from your money.  In this case quite a bit of it.   
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: ksuguy on March 03, 2019, 04:38:02 pm
The concept isn't bad in and of itself.  But the execution and the horrible snake oil salesman isn't helping.   Just make a modern CZ75 style pistol in a high velocity caliber for less than $1500 and I'm all in.   Seriously, it would be fairly doable.  Just chamber it in 7.62x25 and make it capable of running hot loads.   If the CZ52 can do it with it's nearly 70 year old design (albeit with low capacity and s___ty ergonomics), it should be easy to do a CZ75 style variant that could hold somewhere between 15-20 rounds.. 

Make it a crazy boutique gun that costs $7k and then have a dumb ass salesman try to sell it as a bear protection option, and I'm out.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: Grant on March 03, 2019, 05:41:55 pm
 Neat.   Modern take on the 7.62X25 which is a nice round, but such a niche market....I really dont know how many even rich people will be buying it.

But I think I'll grab a EAA Witness Hunter.  6" barrel single action, 14 shot 10mm.  Pretty flat shooting and powerful.   Just wish they made them in DA/SA.   

Want smaller and faster?  .22 TCM is pretty danged good for that.   Quite honestly  a .22 TCM is close to that in my opinion, lighter bullet but for 7% of the price, definately a good matchup.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: ksuguy on March 15, 2021, 11:21:44 am
Update.   Looks like they sent Karl one of their new polymer models to evaluate.   It's still $1700.   Expensive, but not totally insane like it was before.    Looks like it performed really well.   This is what they should have done the first time instead of their horrible marketing at SHOT show.   

https://youtu.be/lWgPV75BLHs
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: LowKey on March 28, 2021, 01:26:23 am
I watched Karl's video, and was left curious....isn't this essentially just an extremely high quality large frame/post-2005 EAA Witness with a 5.7 barrel and a reciprocating weight on the recoil spring? 
I mean, if they're using the same mag for 5.7 and 10mm/.40 and just a barrel swap...I wonder if anyone has made a 5.7 barrel for a Witness?
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: ksuguy on March 28, 2021, 05:48:51 pm
That is a good point.  My 10mm Witness is a pretty beefy gun.   I'm wondering if it could handle the 5.7 Brno with a barrel swap (maybe a stronger spring too).  Maybe we should ask EAA if they can make conversion barrels, I'd buy one. 
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: booksmart on March 28, 2021, 06:12:03 pm
I watched Karl's video, and was left curious....isn't this essentially just an extremely high quality large frame/post-2005 EAA Witness with a 5.7 barrel and a reciprocating weight on the recoil spring? 
I mean, if they're using the same mag for 5.7 and 10mm/.40 and just a barrel swap...I wonder if anyone has made a 5.7 barrel for a Witness?

It doesn't look like that counterweight reciprocates at all... it's pretty fixed in place.
Title: Re: BRNO 7,5 FK Field Pistol
Post by: LowKey on March 29, 2021, 06:02:16 am
It doesn't look like that counterweight reciprocates at all... it's pretty fixed in place.
The weight is attached to the slide, not the frame.   
The slide, and thus the weight, reciprocate.