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Weapons and Gear => Handguns => Topic started by: GeorgeHill on September 20, 2015, 06:54:45 pm

Title: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on September 20, 2015, 06:54:45 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Ao6Fg6P1k
Okay - Right off the bat - Daniel Shaw is a friend of mine.  Great guy.  Tons of experience.  And is an up and coming world class trainer.  He knows what he's talking about.
However, I respectfully disagree with him.
But he does make some good points about the 1911.  For one to pack a 1911 as your Defensive Weapon - he's right.  It takes time, ability, and knowledge.  For most guys - the 1911 is going to require dedication of the owner to really get know the 1911 and commit yourself to it.
I think these days the 1911 is the gun for the Modern Shootist. 

What say you?
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Outbreak on September 20, 2015, 07:22:28 pm
For mag capacity, no argument. I would just point out that the most popular carry guns coming out now are 6-8 shot sub-compacts (Glock, S&W Shield, etc), and revolvers are still selling with 5-6 shots.

The safety argument is ironic. He claims it's a lack of training, but he's a trainer. :scrutiny So this is a classic case of teaching what he's good at, not teaching what the student needs to learn. I have many strong opinions about firearm instructors and their teaching techniques (or lack thereof) but that's another thread. Bottom line is that it's absolutely a training issue, and it's not that hard to train to sweep a safety off. I do it on every gun I pick up, whether it's got a safety in that position or not.

Every tool needs maintenance to stay in good operating condition. Also, if you buy crap, no amount of Slipstream will make it run. A 1911 requires no more expertise to field strip and clean than any other gun. It does not require special tools or certifications. It requires a few minutes, and the same gun cleaning kit you'd have for a Glock.

Mag compatibility? Seriously? If you're carrying a semi-auto and haven't numbered your mags, tested each one, and weeded out the "incompatible" ones, you're wrong. Yes, I even did this with my Glock. If I carry it, I've tested it. I'd expect a "professional," like this guy claims to be, to do the same and teach the same.

And finally, price. He's worried about the money going into the evidence room? I'm worried about me going to the morgue. I'll carry whatever is effective, and if a 1911 is effective for me (it is, very much so) then it's cheap life insurance.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on September 20, 2015, 08:18:34 pm
Here's the thing though. We're talking personal defense. Not a Mission in Durkahstan. Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
There's only been a small handful of incidences where High Capacity made any difference. And even then - more accurate hits with a more potent caliber would probably have sorted things out just fine.
The market for higher and higher capacities is exacerbated with the new wave of trainers that stress a s___ ton of hits with smaller caliber guns as fast as possible.
Yeah - there's some point to that. The US Army went with that philosophy when they went from .308 to 5.56.
There's also good points for the lesser capacity - yet harder hitting option. Which is why SOCOM bought the SCAR MK17 and the US Army started bringing M-14's out of Mothballs over in the sandbox.
There's a reason MARSOC bought Colt Rail Guns.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: strangelittleman on September 20, 2015, 08:37:02 pm
 Outbreak, I agree w/ you.

 Everything (except the 7-9 shot capacity of the single stack 1911) this guy complains about is a training deficiency....He's supposed to be a firearms instructor...if he can't teach his students to overcome rookie mistakes w/ a 1911, then it's on him...yet another guy with an "operator beard" and wearing a cap crushed down on one's head, haunted/hunted dark cast to eyes, furtive glances to and fro, unconsciously hunched shoulders.....Psychological armor... hard to trust that....Not really impressed.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Raptor on September 20, 2015, 09:18:05 pm
While I respect Mr. Shaw's opinions, I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with them. My rundown by the numbers, in the order he makes them:

Magazine capacity: Yes, you are looking at 7+1 or 8+1 with a full-size 1911, and 6+1 or 7+1 with a compact 1911. So what? You carry extra magazines, and you practice reloading. Just like you should with any other defensive firearm, be it a pistol or rifle. And if you're shooting it out and the street like the Earps and Doc Holliday vs. the Clantons & McLaurys at the O.K. Corrall, then you're doing it wrong. If you have to reload, get behind cover first. Heck, that's what you should be trying to do when the shooting starts.

Safety Lever: This is a training issue, something that Shaw readily admits. And I while it's never happened to me, I saw it happen in a defensive pistol class I took. We were running a modified Tueller Drill, and one of the student fumbled his Beretta 92FS's safety under stress and failed to disengage it. He actually did it both times we ran the drill But here's the thing: it can be overcome with training. Shaw admits as much. But he also admits that he doesn't want to. That, IMO, is a failure on his part as both an instructor and as a student of the gun. If you carry a firearm for defense, then you must train with it to the point where you can run it reliably and accurately under stress.

Magazine Compatibility: Buy quality, high-end magazines. Simple as that. Five, maybe ten minutes on Google and you'll find a list of good quality magazines that should run in your gun. Then take them to the range and test them out to make sure. And if a magazine fails on you, take it out of your carry rotation, fix it if you can, then test it again to make sure it's back to functioning 100% before you start carrying it again.

Reliability: In days gone buy, yeah, there were a few 1911s that ran right out of the box and a whole bunch that didn't. But from what I've seen, those days are long gone. Even Rock Island/Armscor guns seem to run box stock. Naturally, the fit and finish won't be as nice as a Wilson Combat, nor will the gun be as accurate, but it'll still be accurate enough for self-defense purposes, and it will run. And yes, the 1911 is a more maintinence-intensive platform than more modern designs. But again, so what? If you carry a gun, any gun, for self defense, then you make the time to clean it and lube it. You make the time to ensure it's running reliable. Not wanting to take the time to do it is again a failure as both a trainer and as a student of the gun. And what's with this BS about not wanting your gun to wind up in an evidence locker because it's so expensive? I know it's cliche, but how much is your life worth? Now I don't say that to mean that you should be carrying a $5000 gun, but still, your life, and the lives of your loved ones, should be worth the investment into a quality self defense tool.

Now all that said, I do agree with George: the 1911 is not a gun for a "casual" gun owner. It is indeed for the Modern Shootist. I say this because it is more maintenance-intensive than modern platforms and does require more TLC than other platforms. It can be a pain in the @$$ to field-strip and reassemble. And it requires a little more training to master shooting it and running it. That's why when people come to me asking what gun they should get (yes, it happens), I tend to steer them away from the 1911 if they express interest in it. Because I know they're not going to give it that TLC. I've only told two of my buddies "yes, buy that 1911," because they were already gun nuts who knew how to properly maintain their weapons.

IMO, anyone can properly run a 1911 if they're willing to put in the time and effort to master it. If they're not willing, then they would most definitely be better served with a different, less complicated platform.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Kaso on September 20, 2015, 09:53:46 pm
I never found the 1911 to be unreasonably difficult to disassemble and reassemble. :shrug



Kaso
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Raptor on September 20, 2015, 10:04:14 pm
Nor I, and pain in the @$$ was probably a poor choice of words. Though the funky dual-coil spring recoil assembly in my Range Officer Compact does give me fits sometimes when I try to reassemble the gun. But it is a more complicated procedure than, say, a SIG or a Glock. And people are, by and large, stupid: the more complicated something is, the more likely that some bonehead who thinks he knows everything will screw up. I do recall at least one guy bringing a 1911 into my preferred LGS in a zip-lock bag because he'd field stripped it and couldn't figure out how to put it back together.  :facepalm
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: JesseL on September 20, 2015, 10:10:34 pm
It's funny how much people will argue this, but I can't remember the last time anyone said I was a fool to carry a single action revolver in .41.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Avenger29 on September 20, 2015, 10:24:12 pm
I don't really trust my 1911 for carry as much as I do my M&P. The wide variety of gun makers and parts makers means it can take some sorting to get quality guns/parts/mags and fitting the parts right takes time, patience, care and ability.

I don't think a 1911 is a sentence of death to carry because of capacity or any of it's shortcomings but I also feel that it's a bit more finicky than a more modern design and it can take tuning and attention to keep it reliable. Carry one if you wish but I do not recommend going cheap on it if you are going to defend your life with one (Taurus, I'm looking at you!). I also feel the best size for reliability is a full size Gov't model and that going smaller than a Commander/4.25" format is a mistake IMHO. I carry mine sometimes and the safety and lower capacity certainly do not trouble me at all.

And if you want to open a can of worms about training and defensive firearms, the manual safety on a 1911 is nothing compared to loading and manipulating the pump shotgun that many advocate for defense. Holy hell that is easy to fluff up if you don't train a lot with one.


Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: sohmdaddy on September 20, 2015, 10:26:03 pm
I wouldn't say that Shaw is a lazy or sub-par trainer. What he is, is a retired Marine, VERY familiar with the Beretta M9. His 1911 experience is much more limited. He has said in podcasts that he likes the idea and execution of glock way better than the M9, but when the chips are down, he shoots better with the M9 simply because he has more experience with it.

Now that he can choose his own guns, he carries a Sig 226 or a Glock.

But, having been a Marine instructor, I think he is more at home with an AR in his hands. So his focus is more toward the rifle, the pistol is something he carries concealed, but doesn't think about too much. And given the choice between a pistol he doesn't have to worry about too much and one that requires a little more attention, I think he opts for the easier option. It is the choice between a Zippo and a Bic lighter.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Penguin on September 20, 2015, 10:41:59 pm
Personally I love the 1911. It is all I have carried as far as a sidearm goes. For me I wouldn't trust myself with anything else.

I will say he does have some valid points on his video though. Magazine capacity. I can't argue with that. 7+1 is what it is and while it may have been good back in 1911 it shows its age now. That being said having million rounds doesn't matter if you miss 9 million times. I carry the 1911 because it is what I shoot best. If I put the time into it I could probably learn to shoot a hi power just as well. As well I agree with him on stopping power. It is a 45ACP not a magic bullet. Handgun rounds just aren't that impressive in the grand scheme of things. There are certainly worse choices out there than 45ACP when it comes to the caliber argument but, with the newer handgun rounds I don't think 45ACP is as big of a deal as it once was. Again the gun is showing its age. To that though I would go back to shot placement. I feel like I am more likely to get good hits with a 1911 than anything else.

The safety lever argument. I think it boils down to two things preference and training. I like the safety lever that is my preference. I wouldn't want to carry say a Glock or something else without a manual safety. I think having a manual safety adds a little bit more to the margin of not having an accidental discharge. Second I think it is a training thing. Sure it is probably easier to teach people to shot a gun that doesn't have a safety lever than to teach them to flick it off and then shot it. I feel though that it is something that is easy to learn. When I first started doing tactical firearms classes I had trouble with that. You know what now I don't because I have trained with it. Not a big deal to me though I can see why some wouldn't like that feature. To me it is a must have, well maybe not a must but pretty close to it.

Magazine compatibility to me this is a no brainier, try your mags before you trust your life to them. Same with the gun and the ammo you plan to carry in it. This isn't rocket science it is just eliminating as many variables as you can from the equation before you get in a gun fight. I would do this with any other gun I would chose to carry. The only big difference here is it seems like everyone and their dog makes 1911s and mags with other guns your choices are more limited. Me I like choices and finding good 1911 mags isn't hard there are several manufactures who have good reputations. Buy one from them and see if you gun likes it. If it does buy more and test everyone of them you plan to carry.

As far as reliability goes my experience differs from his. I haven't had a lot of trouble from my 1911s with the exception of one old colt mag. So I don't carry that mag I use it to practice malfunction drills. I wouldn't say a 1911 has any more or less trouble than most other guns I see. I think the real trouble here is that everyone and there dog seems to make 1911s now. So there are many different parts of varying quality. Parts selection is probably a bit more of a process than it would be with many other guns. Perhaps overwhelming for a beginner but you can work around it. Go buy a new gun that isn't used so you don't have to worry about who knows who doing who knows what to it with there home gunsmithing skills. End of problem. If there was as much of an aftermarket market for other pistols they would have this problem too. 

It may be more difficult to field strip and maintain that some newer designs but again it isn't rocket science. It isn't hard to learn certainly not to the point where I would rule carrying the gun out. Perhaps it takes a bit more dedication and it isn't the best choice for a new shooter but it can be learned easily.

He does have a point on price though. I think for what the average 1911 costs you can probably get more gun for less money with many other designs. As other have pointed out though how much is you life worth to you? While we all have a budget I think you can get a good 1911 that isn't that much more expensive than most other carry guns. You may have to save your pennies a bit longer but if it is the gun you shoot the best it may be worth it in the long run.

My take on the 1911, perhaps not the best beginners gun but easy enough for a beginner to learn that I wouldn't want to rule it out if they want to take the time to learn it. Here is where a good trainer will work wonders. You may get by easier with a trainer who isn't so good on another gun but my experience is training is one place you don't want to skimp on. The gun despite being an old design still works and works well. It may show its age when it comes to magazine capacity and internal complexity but if you take the time to learn the gun both how to shoot it and how to maintain it the gun will work. I think the gun is still perfectly serviceable.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Kaso on September 20, 2015, 10:42:14 pm
It's funny how much people will argue this, but I can't remember the last time anyone said I was a fool to carry a single action revolver in .41.
I don't think much of the idea of carrying a SA revolver, but it is not my place to tell you what you should be doing, even less to be calling you a fool. :shrug

But for me, doing that would be foolish.



Kaso
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on September 20, 2015, 10:42:28 pm
Outbreak, I agree w/ you.

 Everything (except the 7-9 shot capacity of the single stack 1911) this guy complains about is a training deficiency....He's supposed to be a firearms instructor...if he can't teach his students to overcome rookie mistakes w/ a 1911, then it's on him...yet another guy with an "operator beard" and wearing a cap crushed down on one's head, haunted/hunted dark cast to eyes, furtive glances to and fro, unconsciously hunched shoulders.....Psychological armor... hard to trust that....Not really impressed.

He's an EXCELLENT firearms Instructor.  You don't know him... But I do.  He's top notch.  He's actually one of the best in the Industry.
The soft cap - did you not notice he was sitting by a wood burning stove at full boil?  Did you maybe think it might be cold?  No?
Daniel is an awesome guy.  One of the best guys I know.  He's also a very humble guy. 
Do not disparage him.

Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Kaso on September 20, 2015, 10:46:45 pm
I do recall at least one guy bringing a 1911 into my preferred LGS in a zip-lock bag because he'd field stripped it and couldn't figure out how to put it back together.  :facepalm
Funny you should mention that.  I once took a stainless 1911 to a gunsmith in pieces, because the slide and/or frame rails were galling.  When he was done polishing the rails, he left the gun in pieces and made me reassemble it when I came to pick it up.  It was quite obvious that he thought I was one of the above mentioned idiots.



Kaso
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on September 20, 2015, 11:09:47 pm
Quote
I say this because it is more maintenance-intensive than modern platforms and does require more TLC than other platforms. It can be a pain in the @$$ to field-strip and reassemble. And it requires a little more training to master shooting it and running it.

Just like the AR-15...
Yet we've given the AR-15 a pass... The AR-15 is accepted.  The AR-15 is loved.  WHY IS THAT?
Because of institutionalized and almost universal Familiarization. 
In essence - TRAINING. 
The 1911 is no longer taught to the rank and file.  It's no longer the sidearm of the masses... Glock has replaced that.  Because the Modern Shootist needs everything simplified so he can concentrate on all the "Problem Solving".  (That's the usual buzzwords these days)
Here's the reality though.   The 1911's long and distinguished (no johnson jokes) service record has been done mainly with guns built with inferior alloys made with inferior tooling and made with mass production in mind.  Yet they worked quite well.
The 1911's made NOW... Right now... Any new 1911 on most any store's shelves is going to be a better made, higher quality 1911 than what my Grandfather carried through WWII.  Any 1911 now is going to be better than most any 1911 from 20 years ago - and most production 1911's are as good or better than most custom 1911's from 20 years ago.   I know this because I had some very nice custom 1911's made in the 80's and they couldn't touch an off the shelf Springfield made just 5 years ago.
SO...
The 1911's are better than ever.
Yet they now seem to be a Nitch. 
Why?
TRAINING. 
The younger generation makes excuses about efficiency and High Stress Reality - and Capacity is usually the crutch.
The Reality though is that the 1911 seems outdated and thus they do not want to invest the time to learn about the obsolete...
Gentlemen... the 1911 is now the VHS Tape Cassette Player of Handguns.  The 1911 is the Floppy Disk of Pistols.  Obsolete and outdated.

But it isn't. 

No.  The 1911 is the equivalent of the motorcycle Cafe Racer.  The Cafe Racer might be a nitch bike these days... but it's the bike for the Purists.  The distilled essence of Motorcycling.  Simple.  Take all other forms of Motorcycling and distill it into an extract - that's the Cafe Bike.   And that is the 1911.   More maintenance to keep it running... sure.  But that's part of the joy of ownership.  It becomes it's own ritual of purification and focus.    The 1911 is the pistol form of the Samurai's code of Bushido. 

And if you can't understand that... if you don't grasp this... if you don't "Get it".  Then I can't explain it to you.   If you do get it - you are nodding in agreement with me.  If you don't you are shaking your head because you will never get it.  And that makes you sad.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Raptor on September 20, 2015, 11:28:02 pm
Don't misunderstand, George: I am nodding in agreement with you. And since I am part of that younger generation you mentioned, I would give you grief about your remark... if you weren't absolutely 100% correct. My generation, and the generations that have followed, are not interested in taking the time to learn anything, let alone master something. They want everything in life to be set on easy mode, and if they can't do it right the first time then they'll put it down and never touch it again because it's hard! That's what happens when you hand out trophies just for bothering to show up.

All that said, once I get a good holster for it, my CZ-75 will probably be replacing my Range Officer Compact as my regular carry piece. Not due to any fault of or flaw with the 1911, but simply because I shoot the CZ better than I shoot the 1911. I prefer the CZ-75 cocked and locked, so the manual of arms will be pretty much the same.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: sohmdaddy on September 21, 2015, 12:25:18 am
Hey Raptor,

http://www.concealmentsolutions.com/holsters.html
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on September 21, 2015, 12:56:03 am
Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.

It's funny how much people will argue this, but I can't remember the last time anyone said I was a fool to carry a single action revolver in .41.

There are so many good points here that I cannot quote them all. I would definitely hate to hear his opinion on revolvers  :coffee.

Here is the thing. I do not prefer handguns with safeties. I do not think the .45 acp is magical and I am not a disciple of JMB. That being said, I would never tell anyone that the 1911 is a bad choice. It is still a "real gun". Drawing back from the "Go Big" thread, it has a hand filling grip, easily manipulated controls, a suitable calibre, and good sight radius and trigger. If you can carry a 1911, no "pocket gun" (which is what most people seem to carry anyways) will compare to it. Personally I do not like that it is heavy and that the butt prints slightly when I carry it, but that is what I get for not buying a Luke Adams holster for my 1911. One thing I must confess, I have never devoted the time to quickly and efficiently field strip the 1911, but I (like anyone else) could easily learn to do so. I normally just throw on my 686 and go about my day.

I have been lusting after the Springfield range officer compact (and also a Beretta Cheetah, but that's another auto for another thread) for quite a while now.

To anyone wanting to carry a 1911 my opinion is: Keep the barrel length at least 4 inches long, buy a decent gun/magazines, carry a spare magazine, and train until the manual safety is 2nd nature and until you are comfortable carrying "cocked and locked".

That's it. If it takes you more than two 7 round magazines, it's time to be heading for the 870 in the car anyways.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Nightcrawler on September 21, 2015, 06:24:47 am

You know, fifteen years ago the 1911 was cutting edge.  SERIOUS SHOOTERS were the ones who had a 1911 and an AR-15.  There was even a book out about the 1911 and the AR-15.

Bear in mind, the 1911 was already almost 90 years old at this point, and polymer-framed, double-stack, striker-fires had been on the market since the early eighties.  There were articles in gun rags about the progressive police departments that would allow their officers to train with and carry the 1911.

Now?  Now, the 1911 is an obsolete piece of junk that's going to get you killed.  Now, even though every rifle and shotgun you're likely to ever use has a manual safety, using one on a handgun is a training hurdle that can barely be overcome.  I'm not talking about the link specifically, but the general stuff I've seen over the years.

The 1911, the Glock, and the human hand haven't changed in the last fifteen years.  We're just talking about what comes in and out of fashion.

Me, I had a Colt Series 80 Government Model from 2003 until 2013.  Aside from the time the original front sight got huffy and took off downrange, I never had an issue with it, in thousands of rounds.  I didn't need armorer training, gunsmithing ability, or have to detail strip and work on it for it to function.

All of the qualities that made the 1911 popular in the past are still there.  It's just the current butt-monkey of the training world (well, next to revolvers, which aren't "fighting handguns" at all).  Everyone loves to bash on it because they're SO EDGY.   ::)    Want to generate page views?  Write up an article bashing revolvers or 1911s and watch the hate mail flow.  None of your arguments are new, since the guns have been around for over a century, but it will still get the clicks.

Not having met the man, not having trained with him, and admitting to be an utterly mediocre shot my own self, I will say this: if you can't run a 1911 well enough to teach a new shooter to use it, or even a double action revolver, I don't think much of you as a firearms instructor.  If the only guns you can teach effectively are striker-fired double-stacks, or whatever gun your personally prefer, then you either need to make that clear to your students before you take their money or go find something else to do.  If you can't handle a few new shooters on the line with a Beretta 92, 1911, Sig 226, and one weirdo with a GP100, you may be a high-speed, low-drag, door-kicking tactical badass, but you've got no business trying to teach those folks to shoot.

Having been a badass, a door-kicker, an operator, a winning competition shooter, whatever, none of that automatically means you can teach.  Teaching someone to do something is a separate skill set on top of being able to do it yourself.

Now, none of this is to say the video is dead wrong.  It's very important to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your gun.  I think, though, perhaps just as important, is not exaggerating the strengths or the weaknesses.  I've been seeing a lot of exaggerating going on lately across the internet.  The thing with the manual safety is what gets me the most.  People make a much bigger deal out of it than it actually is.  As far as training issues go, it's a relatively minor one.

Anyway, I think the 1911's heyday is past.  I mean, for a gun over a hundred years old, it's still going strong.  It's more popular than ever.  I think part of the problem was market saturation, and the other part is people's tastes have just changed.  For a typical shooter, it might be hard to rationalize the extra couple hundred bucks for a 1911 that holds less bullets than the Springfield XDM he's looking at.  I think a lot of people who buy them will buy them as range toys and never really get all that proficient with them.

Who knows, though?  Maybe in a few years, it'll come back around, and the 1911 will be rediscovered.  Small arms technology seems to have utterly stagnated at this point, so I don't expect anything really new coming down the pipe anytime soon.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Outbreak on September 21, 2015, 07:38:02 am
He's an EXCELLENT firearms Instructor.  You don't know him... But I do.  He's top notch.  He's actually one of the best in the Industry.
The soft cap - did you not notice he was sitting by a wood burning stove at full boil?  Did you maybe think it might be cold?  No?
Daniel is an awesome guy.  One of the best guys I know.  He's also a very humble guy. 
Do not disparage him.

Not having met the man, not having trained with him, and admitting to be an utterly mediocre shot my own self, I will say this: if you can't run a 1911 well enough to teach a new shooter to use it, or even a double action revolver, I don't think much of you as a firearms instructor.  If the only guns you can teach effectively are striker-fired double-stacks, or whatever gun your personally prefer, then you either need to make that clear to your students before you take their money or go find something else to do.  If you can't handle a few new shooters on the line with a Beretta 92, 1911, Sig 226, and one weirdo with a GP100, you may be a high-speed, low-drag, door-kicking tactical badass, but you've got no business trying to teach those folks to shoot.

NC said it better than I could have.
I have talked to several professional, mil, and LEO firearms instructors over the last few months about the topic of teaching the student vs teaching your own skills. There are instructors out there who can analyze a student, figure out how that student learns, then teach in the most effective way for the student to learn the topic. Then there are guys with impressive resumes, who have been there, done that, and have great skills, then opened a school where people pay them to tell them where they've been, what they've done, and show off their own skills, finally giving the students the chance to try to shoot that well. They are not true instructors. They're gurus.
I agree with NC on this one. This dude may be Brother Theresa of Beretta, but if he can't operate or effectively teach a 1911 safety, he is neither a shootist, nor an instructor.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Kaso on September 21, 2015, 11:29:18 am
You know, fifteen years ago the 1911 was cutting edge.  SERIOUS SHOOTERS were the ones who had a 1911...
The 1911, the Glock, and the human hand haven't changed in the last fifteen years.  We're just talking about what comes in and out of fashion.
15 years ago we were in the middle of the AWB.  I was not into guns back then, but from what you say, it seems that shooters were using the 'sour grapes' argument for the guns and mags that were out of their reach.



Kaso
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Chief45 on September 21, 2015, 11:50:40 am
what I find humorous is this.  As a firearms instructor,  My goal is to teach you how to run what you have. To know what your piece can and cannot do, what you can and cannot do,   not spend your time and money telling you why your choice, or what you can afford, is a POS. 




   


Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Feud on September 21, 2015, 12:23:16 pm
Would I? Probably. But I don't see myself switching from a 9mm anytime soon.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on September 21, 2015, 01:08:44 pm
Would I? Probably. But I don't see myself switching from a 9mm anytime soon.

 :rotfl
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Nightcrawler on September 21, 2015, 01:10:43 pm
My favorite example of jumping off the 1911 bandwagon came from Hilton Yam.  For years he built very expensive, custom, high-end 1911s. 

Few years back his apparently had this big epiphany that the 1911 isn't that great after all, and wrote an article swearing off of them.  I think he retired from building them, too.

So, I was thinking, you took people's money, a lot of their money, then turn around and say "the Glock is actually better"?  That's a little messed up, if you think about it.  You could have bought multiple Glock 21s for the price of one of his 1911s.

These fads come and go.  Back then, .45ACP was the better cartridge.  Now 9mm is the best of all possible worlds, to listen to the internet, and there's no reason to go for anything more powerful.

Give it a few years.  I'm sure it'll swing back 'round.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Mikee5star on September 21, 2015, 02:18:51 pm
I don't have the bandwidth to watch the video, and I don't know Shaw personally, but I have listened to his podcast and heard him on several others. His title is 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life. That is his choice. And you know what, I have no issue with that.

Does he say that he won't train people who use 1911?  Then I have an issue. But the Shaw I have heard would not say that.

9mm and a plastic striker fired might be the most "common sense" approach, but it is not my choice.  I carry the biggest gun, in the biggest caliber and with the highest capacity I can reasonable conceal. For me right now, until I can get my wide body reliable, it is a 1911 commander with 8 round mags.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Robinson on September 21, 2015, 02:36:02 pm
My favorite example of jumping off the 1911 bandwagon came from Hilton Yam.  For years he built very expensive, custom, high-end 1911s. 

Few years back his apparently had this big epiphany that the 1911 isn't that great after all, and wrote an article swearing off of them.

If I remember correctly, Mr. Yam's criticism of the 1911 is mostly within the context of unit or organizational issue where a fleet of the pistols must be maintained by unit armorors.  And I think he's right.

A 1911 is not the gun I recommend to new shooters either.  I carry one because I've been using them for decades, I simply like them, and I am willing to make the investment to ensure mine operate properly.  Fortunately I have been lucky and all my Colts run okay so far.  I also know a local gunsmith who is very competent with the 1911.

I guess I'm agreeing with a lot of what has already been said.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: RetroGrouch on September 21, 2015, 05:08:47 pm
Pfft...we trained drafted teen age boys in mass to use the 1911 in war time, in muddy , sandy, dirty conditions.  It is orders of magnitude harder to drive a car with an automatic transmission or shoot an AR15 than to learn how to shoot a 1911.  It is easier to disassemble, clean and reassemble than an AR15 or a Ruger 22lr pistol.  You have to oil it!  Horrors!  May I point out you have to put oil in your vehicles as well?  The recoil is the biggest issue, and even that isn't really that bad.  I don't carry one because of the weight and where I started carrying even printing was considered "brandishing".  I do carry a gun with the same "limited" ammo capacity.  After 30+ years if shooting handguns I have finally found a gun I shoot better than a 1911 at social distances, but haven't tried it at longer distances yet.  I'd trust any of my 1911s with my life, or more importantly, the lives of those I love.  The trainer in question may be a fine human, operator and instructor, but he is just illustrating his own prejudices.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on September 21, 2015, 06:11:59 pm
My favorite example of jumping off the 1911 bandwagon came from Hilton Yam.  For years he built very expensive, custom, high-end 1911s. 

Few years back his apparently had this big epiphany that the 1911 isn't that great after all, and wrote an article swearing off of them.  I think he retired from building them, too.

So, I was thinking, you took people's money, a lot of their money, then turn around and say "the Glock is actually better"?  That's a little messed up, if you think about it.  You could have bought multiple Glock 21s for the price of one of his 1911s.

These fads come and go.  Back then, .45ACP was the better cartridge.  Now 9mm is the best of all possible worlds, to listen to the internet, and there's no reason to go for anything more powerful.

Give it a few years.  I'm sure it'll swing back 'round.


Very true, ebbs and flows.

The internet also says that the .38 special has never killed anyone before either ;).
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Raptor on September 21, 2015, 06:48:39 pm
Very true, ebbs and flows.

The internet also says that the .38 special has never killed anyone before either ;).

Funny you should mention that, as my latest gun lust is for a S&W 67, K-Frame .38 Special. No doubt I'll be killed the moment I step out of the house if I ever decide to carry it.  ;)

The truth of the matter is that every platform, handgun and long gun, has its advantages and disadvantages. No matter what platform you choose, be it a 1911, Glock, SIG, Beretta, AR, AK, FAL, SCAR, whatever, you need to practice with it enough to at the very least a) learn its quirks and peculiarities and adapt to or overcome them, and b) be able to run the gun under stress.

Really, and please pardon the cliche, it's not the caliber of the weapon that matters so much as the caliber of the shooter. If I was forced to get into a gunfight, I'd rather go up against a full platoon of Armchair Commandos armed with whatever equipment "serious operators" use this week than go up against guys like Ian and Karl of InRange TV fame armed with Mosins and S&W No. 3 Russian Models. The InRange guys know those guns and know how to run them well enough to hold their own (more or less) against guys rolling with modern hardware, whereas I doubt your average Armchair Commando has ever run a gun anywhere besides a static firing range.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: ZeroTA on September 21, 2015, 08:00:01 pm
.... I doubt your average Armchair Commando has ever run a gun anywhere besides a static firing range.
True. But a lot of instructors have been there & done that, and most of the younger ones didn't do it with 1911's. I suspect it's a bit of bias that they'd recommend Glocks, because that's what a lot of them had used.

15 years ago we were in the middle of the AWB.  I was not into guns back then, but from what you say, it seems that shooters were using the 'sour grapes' argument for the guns and mags that were out of their reach.

The big argument was that if you could only have 10 rounds you might as well use God's own thunderbolt, the almighty .45 ACP. The largely unquestioned assumption was that .45 was in fact better than 9mm, because they didn't make many small 9mm's for the conceal carry market so not as many people questioned if 8-10 rounds of 9mm was really enough to get the job done. Of course now that you can have 15 or 17 or 20 rounds in your handgun, that argument morphed into, "Doesn't matter, 9mm still sucks."
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: ZeroTA on September 21, 2015, 08:03:07 pm

The internet also says that the .38 special has never killed anyone before either ;).

Laugh it up, I caught a .38 Special bullet once.





My hand stung for five whole minutes.
*rimshot*
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on September 21, 2015, 08:06:11 pm
You actually want to own one of those old antiques? Oh, no doubt that's crazy. #totesdeadbruh  :neener.

I really can't think of many handguns that I would turn my nose up to (as long as I can pack them concealed). If I'm worrying about "getting kilt in da streetz" then once again.... The discussion really shouldn't be about handguns.

If people didn't take the arbritrary nuances so seriously, the whole chest thumping "my gun is used by tactical ARfcom mod ninja operators operating tactically" nonsense would be hilarious. The only shame is how much stock people put into it  :banghead. The thing that really bugs me is that those who advocate a certain gun or cartridge with a fiery passion online often carry something completely different in my experience (that is if they carry at all).
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on September 21, 2015, 08:07:00 pm
Laugh it up, I caught a .38 Special bullet once.





My hand stung for five whole minutes.
*rimshot*

Was it from Officer Fife?  :facepalm
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on September 21, 2015, 08:20:26 pm
Took my Springer GI to work today and ran another 50 rounds through it. 
I've not shot it since ever.
Zero Failures.
As accurate as ever.   The gun cycled and fired flawlessly.  Felt great shooting it again.  Such a great gun.
I do not know what this gun looks like jammed.  It never has.
8+1 rounds of .45 Auto is not enough?
Dude - you need to slow down and aim more.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Raptor on September 21, 2015, 08:28:50 pm
You actually want to own one of those old antiques? Oh, no doubt that's crazy. #totesdeadbruh  :neener.

It is crazy, because my sole justification is that, "I want a K-Frame."   ::)

Laugh it up, I caught a .38 Special bullet once.





My hand stung for five whole minutes.
*rimshot*

 :clap  Good one.

Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Raptor on September 21, 2015, 08:32:01 pm
8+1 rounds of .45 Auto is not enough?
Dude - you need to slow down and aim more.

Absolutely. Nobody ever survived a gunfight by making a whole lot of quick misses. And should you find yourself in need more rounds (as in you find yourself confronted by a mob), that's what spare magazines are for.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on September 21, 2015, 10:55:56 pm
You can't miss fast enough to win.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: luke213(adamsholsters) on September 21, 2015, 11:16:00 pm
I've never been in fashion clothing wise nor guns typically I carry what I like and shoot well and what functions well. For me that's a 1911 most of the time but it's up to everyone else to decide what they like;)

Luke

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: mqondo on September 22, 2015, 12:32:49 am
I had our 1911 jam. Found out it was a bad magazine. Sent it back to the company I bought it from, and got a new one. It runs like a champ. My wife recently bought one too. It runs great.

Would I trust my life to either of these? Of course. Do I carry one often? No. My back is more sensitive to having a heavy load on one side, and it tweaks it enough that I don't like it. I can carry one for maybe half a day, then I have to change it out. Our 1911's are mostly range guns for that reason. I have carried one a fair amount before though.

I like the lighter guns for carry, partly because of the reason stated above. I also like having more ammo when out and about after work. Normally during the day I carry an XDS. The mag holds 7. Light and easy to conceal, and I can shoot it really well.

1911's are great. I would recommend them to anyone that doesn't mind a heavy gun. Most, if not all, of the people that have shot ours have really liked them.


Sent from iSnurd
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Harm on September 22, 2015, 01:58:42 am
I think these days the 1911 is the gun for the Modern Shootist. 

Ok I'll get to his video in a second, but first this derp needs to be addressed.  THE fluff?  The Modern Shootist?  Thats patently ridiculous.   :scrutiny  You should feel bad.  lol. 

Alright to the atrocity that is that video, first the I'm too cool gonna record my s___ in the cabin by the fireside?  Dude eat bag of dicks.  You're a pompous ass.  Grow the fluff up.  I had to get that out of my system.  I fluffing hate the too cool for school s___.  This video.  Bastards.

Alright his four major issues are as follows -

1. Reliability
2. Operational Consistency
3. Maintenance
4. Compatibility

Did I get all that?

1. Reliability - Honestly no the 1911 is not more reliable than modern pistols.  FACT.  However, there are MANY causes for this, mostly because gunnies at large, and jackasses running the companies are stupid. I swear to my left nut, we've been having this same damn discussion for the last 15 years that I remember and longer than that I'm sure.  Seriously, suddenly a wannabe smug self righteous twat makes a hipster esque video with his half committed deployment beard and its a new argument?  I swear to god memories like alzheimers patients.  Ok the reality is that we don't have JMB's design, we have a hybrid amalgamation of s___ crapped into the rough shape of it, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  A lot of it depends on which idiot put it together on a given day.  Now sometimes if they have good parts, what gets shat out, is good, other times not so much.  Often we don't know because MOST guys buy a 1911, go shoot 2-3 mags, say YUP its good, then put it away and shoot their AR, or their Glock the rest of the time. 

Now some companies like he said, really make something fluffing awesome.  And thats great.  They should be, but they will charge you like a dumbass you are to pay for it.  Because at that point its approaching art, because we've forgotten we actually expect things to work.  Go figure. 

Now there is a third option here, and thats the guy who understands his 1911.  Knows it.  Understands how to make her run.  He cleans it well, lubes it, and replaces springs and pins at recommended intervals.  He's also a fluffing jackalope because hell if I've ever seen him.  The only 1911 off the top of my head I don't recall ever failing when I saw it being used was Coyotesfans Springfield Operator.  Even the Delta Elites have had a jam or two.  Now does that make it a bad gun.  That depends. 

Operational Consistency - I think a bad gun is as much a bad shooter as anything else.  Between the firearm, the shooter, the weather etc there's a lot that can fluff up your gun mid run, whether thats a practice session, an idpa stage, a shoothouse in training of a knock down drag out ball stomper in the street.  What matters isn't if it fluffs up, but how bad it does, and how fast you the shooter can fix it.  The Deltas that I saw have issues, including THernlunds, were simple fixes, tap, rack, bang.  But it seems that unless its a high dollar, high quality gun well made, that the 1911 doesn't like the new manufacturing process of not being truly hand fitted by all but the best shops.  Of tolerances designed with the philosophy in mind to seemingly contradict each other.  We want precision accuracy in a 104 year old pistol but also don't want it to quit and we want it for under $500.  Because in addition to everything else, we're cheap bastards.  Through and through.  And therin lies the issue.  Everything else, comes back to that. 

So yes, it can run, and it can run reliably.  And hey guess what, it can even BE RUN, and BE RUN reliably.  By the guy who's going to be out there, checking his mags, checking his springs.  Making sure his ammo matches his POA/POI.  But thats also the guy who's ready to rock & roll, a safety isn't going to cause him a hiccup.  Period.  Because like a fighter, he's already prepared for the fight. Sweeping off a safety catches a guy up though?  Thats a shmuck.  Thats the same guy who's carrying a 1911 to class because he WANTS TO BE A GUNFIGHTER.  But he ccw's a LadySmith 38.  He probably watches My Little Pony Cartoons too.  fluffing brony. 

Shoot the guys who likely need a functional firearm are having failures because their guns internals are jammed up with cheeto crumbs and donut sugar.  And thats in a Glock, or a Sig, or an HK.  And with all the wonderful nooks and crannies on a 1911, if you don't take care of it, its not only not going to take care of you, its going to go t___ up at the worst time. You have to respect your weapons system, and most guys don't.  There's a difference between babying it, which some guys do, or not testing it, which most guys do, and using it as intended, using it within acceptable constraints. 

So no I think he's full of s___ on the ability to use the damn gun, otherwise these same jackasses would be fluffing up reloads, reverting to the GASP archaic, slingshot slide release instead of using a button, inserting flashlights into their magwell or their a______s and all other such nonsense.  :facepalm  Look what you do in your spare time is your business.

Maintenance - I'm going to place that next to be being a child and being spoiled.  Its a damn spring.  Its not a transmission.  WTF is wrong with you?  You can rave all day about building an AR, but you can't even replace springs on what was a functional 1911?  Or what should have been?  Do not pass go, do not collect $200, because you're a pansy.  Building a quality 1911 from scratch, s___, yes that is hard.  Even fully fitting it into a trustworthy life altering firearm, is a matter of art, see above, but just maintaining it?  Seriously he has a lease and rents an apartment.  Probably has a maid too...

Compatibility - He's going to complain about mags?  THEY ARE DESIGNED TO BE DISPOSABLE.  Seriously princess, that one doesn't work, change the follower or the spring, see if it works, mark it and MOVE ON.  I have a mag for my HK USP, guess what, on that mag the slide does not lock back.  I guess I'll cry about it like a princess.  No.  I marked it, AND MOVED ON.  Sig Mags run about $20-40 depending on model etc. HK Mags START at $40 IF I'M LUCKY.  Seriously my HK45 mags run $70.  GoFundMe anyone?  But seriously, a top of the line Wilson Combat Mag, or Chip McCormick, runs $30.  If it doesn't work and you're too damn lazy to mark it, then guess what, throw it away and thats your lazy tax.  Try again.




Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Kaso on September 22, 2015, 03:09:39 am
Harm wins the thread.



Kaso
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GaBoy45 on September 22, 2015, 11:52:39 am
Harm is right. I don't know the guy in the video, have never taken a class from him. If the Ogre says he's a good guy then I trust the Ogre.

But I do disagree with him on his points. It seems to be the thing to do to disparage certain firearms for whatever reason. But, in my limited experience mind you, I've seen a lot of different brands go down for a lot of reasons. I've seen Glocks jam because they were filthy. No mechanical object is immune. Heck the axe is arguably one of the simplest weapons on the planet will fail if you don't take care of it. It will dull, rust, pit and the blade can come loose. Are some firearms better out of the box and require less, yes less not none, maintenance? Yes some are. But the 1911 has attributes that make it a good choice for self defense that are not replicated in other designs.

The best instructors I've had never said one word about our kit. They know we have very little if any say about it. They taught us how to work what you had to the very best of your ability and to minimize what could go wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Doug Wojtowicz on September 22, 2015, 02:37:25 pm
8+1 rounds of .45 Auto is not enough?
Dude - you need to slow down and aim more.

Also, reload at leisure behind something big, thick and solid.  Or at least out of sight. 
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: sarge712 on September 23, 2015, 11:08:12 pm
That mindset is rampant among the "in" training crowd lately.

Two weeks ago I was in an Active Shooter class put on by the FBI Academy mobile training staff. One frail looking Feeb instructor asked if anyone carried a revolver. I raised my hand and told him I did. His smart ass asked if I did so by choice. Yes, by choice G-string, both off-duty and on details with the narcotics unit wherein we are allowed to carry whatever we please. I also carry a 1911 and have shot hell out of both my Springers without malfs and while they require more frequent spring replacement than a Glock, I am anything but "under-armed" with JMB's baby boy. And yes, I switch sidearms around like pairs of boots but I mostly stick to my GP100. The instructor would have likewise been aghast if he knew about my 1911 love.

I'm sure now that Sensei Shaw has spoken, 1911's are being abandoned like bastard children in Boston. What the fluff ever. There are too many experts creeping around nowadays and with what creds? I heard there's this one cool Coast Guard guy with a beard...
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Nightcrawler on September 23, 2015, 11:22:39 pm
You guys are making me miss my Colt Gov't Model. :(
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on September 24, 2015, 12:05:03 am
That mindset is rampant among the "in" training crowd lately.

Two weeks ago I was in an Active Shooter class put on by the FBI Academy mobile training staff. One frail looking Feeb instructor asked if anyone carried a revolver. I raised my hand and told him I did. His smart ass asked if I did so by choice. Yes, by choice G-string, both off-duty and on details with the narcotics unit wherein we are allowed to carry whatever we please. I also carry a 1911 and have shot hell out of both my Springers without malfs and while they require more frequent spring replacement than a Glock, I am anything but "under-armed" with JMB's baby boy. And yes, I switch sidearms around like pairs of boots but I mostly stick to my GP100. The instructor would have likewise been aghast if he knew about my 1911 love.

I'm sure now that Sensei Shaw has spoken, 1911's are being abandoned like bastard children in Boston. What the fluff ever. There are too many experts creeping around nowadays and with what creds? I heard there's this one cool Coast Guard guy with a beard...

I'm curious as to what his reply was to that.

I'll never understand why we place so much emphasis on tools and not training. Even with a hi cap polymer wonder, more training never hurt anybody. Lord knows I could use more range time. Don't you know burning powder is therapeutic? ;)
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: sarge712 on September 24, 2015, 12:30:12 am
Oh no I only said "Yes, by choice." I didn't add the G-string part etc.. Sorry if that mislead
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on September 24, 2015, 01:01:22 am
Oh no I only said "Yes, by choice." I didn't add the G-string part etc.. Sorry if that mislead

 :facepalm

Ah, shoot. I took it literally, sorry about that.

I was really hoping, had you said that, you would've donned some shades and exclaimed "deal with it" at the end :P. It's still a dick move for him to question someone's choice in hardware like it reflects upon their proficiency. It's not like you were running around in the narcotics unit using black powder or something :shrug.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Chief45 on September 24, 2015, 08:43:59 am
Can't.   shows up on the random piss test . . . . .


**snip** It's not like you were running around in the narcotics unit using black powder or something :shrug.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Lupinus on September 24, 2015, 09:47:19 am
IMO, the 1911 is a fine weapon. And it can (fairly) easily be made into a great weapon.Main reason I don't carry one is because I simply don't own one. If I did I'm sure it would have a place in the carry rotation, and if I'm going to carry a gun with a manual safety I want it to be a nice sized 1911 style safety. The only manual safeties I wont carry are smaller less intuitive to disengage or otherwise awkward safeties. But obviously, it's not my first choice since I've chosen others ahead of it.

All that said when the zombies come and I need to raid the gun shop, and have a firearms buffet to pick from but no time to test? While obviously not ideal, having to load up and go without testing? It's not going to be a 1911.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GaBoy45 on September 24, 2015, 10:15:41 am
I've stopped worrying about hardware and ammo beyond "is it reliable" and have worked on being able to use what I've chosen. Yes I have a somewhat large collection of handguns but it's now because I wanted them not felt like I needed them. I like the designs or they might feel a niche. I also like to keep passably familiar with different operating systems. They do fill another roll and it's as lenders for friends and family to try out. I didn't really have a pool of guns to borrow or rent when I started looking into carrying. If my collection makes me happy and lessens the difficulty people I know and love when they start on their firearms journey, then 2 birds with 1 stone right?

Do I feel outgunned when I carry a revolver? Not if the assailant has a knife or a pistol. If he has an AK or shotgun, then I probably would feel outgunned. But I can still outfight the bad guy if I'm trained and following that training.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Kaso on September 24, 2015, 11:06:37 am
Yes I have a somewhat large collection of handguns but it's now because I wanted them not felt like I needed them. I like the designs or they might feel a niche. I also like to keep passably familiar with different operating systems.
This is pretty much me, as well.  I like to have something to fill each of the most common niches and operating systems.

Do I feel outgunned when I carry a revolver? Not if the assailant has a knife or a pistol. If he has an AK or shotgun, then I probably would feel outgunned. But I can still outfight the bad guy if I'm trained and following that training.
Outgunned, yes, but then again, you are outgunned with any handgun.  If you are out in the open, it will be about who shoots first, and in such case a revolver that you train with will beat out a semi that you don't.  Can a person really squeeze of seven or more before he gets his weapon up? (and he is the attacker, so he is already on offense)

Likewise, if you can get behind actual cover before engaging, the capacity limitations of a revolver are negated, and the positive aspects can shine. (like magnum cartridges, if you are carrying them)



Kaso
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Kaso on September 24, 2015, 11:17:54 am
All that said when the zombies come and I need to raid the gun shop, and have a firearms buffet to pick from but no time to test? While obviously not ideal, having to load up and go without testing? It's not going to be a 1911.
I don't think that anyone is going to be able to argue against this.  As a class, 1911s are going to have more potential problems 'out of the box' than other designs, and this is simply because so many manufacturers are turning them out, and who knows where the parts came from, or what tolerances were held to.

In that vein, if the zombies ever come, skip the used gun rack.  I have had two older Sigs (and who is going to argue against their quality) crap out on me at a training class.  The P229 was just a recoil spring, and actually worked when suppressed...  The P6?  Who knows?  I am on the fourth hammer spring since it had an action job, and I still don't trust it for carry.

Point is, if the zombies ever come, I am looking at new guns ONLY.



Kaso
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on September 24, 2015, 12:59:58 pm
:rotfl

Beautiful play on words :thumbup1.

I have heard from others that once you start playing with BP, it does become addictive ;).
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: RetroGrouch on September 24, 2015, 03:18:12 pm
If the zombies come and I have a gunshop smorgasbord to choose from, there are a number of 1911s I will choose, without a worry about reliability.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Harm on September 24, 2015, 06:54:48 pm
You know one of the biggest reasons the 1911 doesn't run for most people?  And here's the dumb part.  They look at a pistol made in 2014 and look at how to lubricate a Glock and say, yeah what the hell.  And so they put a couple drips of oil on it and run.  Well genius, this gun may be made in 2014, but it was designed in 1910.  When they greased guns.  Oil was minimal and used mostly on small coil springs and other small parts.  Try running a 1911 with a nice grease.  It runs.  Shocker. 
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on September 24, 2015, 07:17:22 pm
Modern Shootist.  Yes. 
 :coffee
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Raptor on September 24, 2015, 07:41:13 pm
You know one of the biggest reasons the 1911 doesn't run for most people?  And here's the dumb part.  They look at a pistol made in 2014 and look at how to lubricate a Glock and say, yeah what the hell.  And so they put a couple drips of oil on it and run.  Well genius, this gun may be made in 2014, but it was designed in 1910.  When they greased guns.  Oil was minimal and used mostly on small coil springs and other small parts.  Try running a 1911 with a nice grease.  It runs.  Shocker. 

Hmm... That may explain why my RO Compact will FTFeed after 300-400 or so rounds after being lubed. Note to self: buy Slipstream grease.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Frankenslayer44 on September 24, 2015, 08:03:43 pm
Yeah on pistols with long frame rails (1911s and Sigs mainly) I've been running slipstream grease and couldn't be happier.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: luke213(adamsholsters) on September 24, 2015, 08:18:44 pm
I'm a big fan of grease for firearms lube and I tend to run things fairly wet. Its always worked for me;) Once in a while I clean stuff but I'm not too religious about it I'd venture to say most of my guns are fairly dirty most of the time but they still run fine.

Luke

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Roper1911 on September 24, 2015, 09:02:01 pm
You know one of the biggest reasons the 1911 doesn't run for most people?  And here's the dumb part.  They look at a pistol made in 2014 and look at how to lubricate a Glock and say, yeah what the hell.  And so they put a couple drips of oil on it and run.  Well genius, this gun may be made in 2014, but it was designed in 1910.  When they greased guns.  Oil was minimal and used mostly on small coil springs and other small parts.  Try running a 1911 with a nice grease.  It runs.  Shocker. 
oil? I run grease on all my guns. it sticks better and i find it makes all of my guns more reliable.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: sarge712 on September 24, 2015, 10:16:19 pm
I, too, run grease on all my weapons, even my Glocks. I've never followed the Glock oiling directives. That may very well be THE reason why I've never had a problem with my 1911's.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on September 24, 2015, 10:32:03 pm
Note to self: buy Slipstream grease.
That's a given.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on September 24, 2015, 10:33:55 pm
I actually found a combination of Slipstream and Slipstream Grease to work best in 1911's.  The little bit of oil makes the grease more of a Slipstream slurry and it goes right where it's needed...
So slick... So dirty... So good...
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Raptor on September 24, 2015, 11:18:07 pm
Only on the rails, right? Use on the locking lugs?

Apologies for the [email protected]$$ questions. I only learned how to clean a pistol using oil.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: coelacanth on September 24, 2015, 11:58:26 pm
Two things.  Mr. Shaw has a very annoying delivery.  He needs to get a transcription of what he actually says on this video and read it.

He contradicts himself and gives conditional approval to some of the things he recommended against just a moment before.  He may be a good guy but based upon his video I wouldn't consider him for training.  He's welcome to his opinion but I wish I had my 5 minutes back. 

I don't consider myself a "shootist", modern or otherwise. As far as the 1911 pistol goes?  I use them in my carry line-up and have for many years.  The one I have owned the longest is monotonously reliable.  It makes .45 caliber holes appear where I want them to when I do my part.  I like the 1911 because it is a known quantity.  I have more rounds down range through them than all my other handguns combined.  I am familiar with them so I trust them - even when I may find myself in deep sh*t . 



Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Nightcrawler on September 25, 2015, 12:15:17 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJlyc1rJR8E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJlyc1rJR8E)

The Burned Man approves of the 1911.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Persquaffty on September 25, 2015, 04:59:18 am
This is pretty much me, as well.  I like to have something to fill each of the most common niches and operating systems.
 Outgunned, yes, but then again, you are outgunned with any handgun.  If you are out in the open, it will be about who shoots first, and in such case a revolver that you train with will beat out a semi that you don't.  Can a person really squeeze of seven or more before he gets his weapon up? (and he is the attacker, so he is already on offense)

Likewise, if you can get behind actual cover before engaging, the capacity limitations of a revolver are negated, and the positive aspects can shine. (like magnum cartridges, if you are carrying them)



Kaso

Another advantage, of the older guns, How many of us shoot 9mm glock etc. past 7 or 15 yds to very good effect? I'm not saying its not possible, but I think if i was limited to a handgun for facing a thug armed with a shotgun or rifle, I would choose my Model 657 .41 magnum.  That's  the only handgun I've been able to make hits with out to a hundred yards. I might be young but I'm  pretty sure there are plenty of Bull'seye shooters out there that would make short work of a thug with an ak at 50 yards with their 1911s.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GaBoy45 on September 25, 2015, 09:56:52 am
I remember GunDoc mentioning in a video one time that he used both Slipstream grease and oil on his pistols. I've tried it and it works great. So I use that combo on all my semi-autos. It makes Sigs run really smooth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Robinson on September 25, 2015, 12:09:27 pm
Im my experience, a properly built 1911 will run fine with any quality lube.  I use Slip 2000 on mine and they work.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Lupinus on September 25, 2015, 04:53:06 pm
I always use grease, or grease with a little oil, on my firearms. The only place I tend to use oil only are areas that are hard to reach or where wicking is desired. Or if I'm adding a little lube without cleaning or tearing the weapon down.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Penguin on September 26, 2015, 02:19:42 pm
As well I use the slipstream grease. Before that I was using lubraplate. Perhaps this is why the 1911 has worked so well for me over the years.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: scarville on September 26, 2015, 02:55:36 pm
I agree with much of what he says about the 1911.  Now, I usually carry a double action revolver.  If I was to carry an autoloader it would be a Ruger SR-9, a S&W M&P or a similar sized striker fired pistol (My hands are too small to use a Glock). That said there is no good reason for a private citizen not to carry a 1911.

My thought is that if a 1911 -- or a revolver for that matter -- work in real life, private sector self-defense (and they do) then it should work in training.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: HiVelSword on September 27, 2015, 01:00:35 am
1911's are awful. That's why I only own three of them.

Sorry for "borrowing", Outbreak. ;)

But yeah, I just need 8 more.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: HiVelSword on September 27, 2015, 01:09:44 am
I meant 9 more.

http://www.sigarms.com/CatalogProductDetails/1911-compact-nickel.aspx (http://www.sigarms.com/CatalogProductDetails/1911-compact-nickel.aspx)
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on September 27, 2015, 01:22:19 am
Looks like a nice carry 1911, if only they'd shorten that butt :bash. The officer grip length with a 4-5 inch slide would be my ideal 1911. Sadly I know of very few makers/models who make them that way.

ETA: Actually the height isn't too far off on that model. I'd prefer the height to be 5 inches or less ideally.

http://www.sigarms.com/CatalogProductDetails/1911-c3.aspx

http://www.springfield-armory.com/products/1911-range-officer-compact-45-acp/
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: coyotesfan97 on September 27, 2015, 08:48:49 am
There was one time shooting my Springer TRP I could actually see the slide slowing down as I shot. It never FTF but a little Slipstream worked wonders. The only issues I've ever had with my Compact have been mag issues. I don't use those mags any more.

I'd carry my TRP as a duty weapon if it was issued. I'm not going to subject my expensive semi custom TRP to the abuse it would receive following a dog around. Plus I frequently go to other jurisdictions and I'm not sure how quickly I'd get my gun back if I was involved in a shooting. If another agency wants to hold the department Glock long term I don't care. I'll just get another issued. 

There's a reservation to the north and I've heard if the FBI gets your gun from an OIS good luck getting it back. Sarge712 probably has better info on that than me.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on September 27, 2015, 12:14:50 pm
I want a Nighthawk T3. 
I want a Dan Wesson V-Bob.
I want a SIG RCS.
I want a Wilson Combat....

This list would be never ending...
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: HiVelSword on September 27, 2015, 02:31:05 pm
I want a pair of RIA Tactical 10mm's. Because reasons.

Does anyone make a 10 round mag other than Tripp?
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Mikee5star on September 27, 2015, 09:20:06 pm
I want a pair of RIA Tactical 10mm's. Because reasons.

Does anyone make a 10 round mag other than Tripp?

Damn You, HiVelSword!  Now I need a pair of the RIA high cap 10mm, a full size and a midsize.  Also thinking about a mid size high cap TCM combo.  A 17 + 1 9mm commander, sounds like a good carry gun to me.

Does anyone know who makes RIA's double stack mags?
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on September 27, 2015, 09:48:25 pm
https://us.armscor.com/products/rock-ultra-fs-10mm

Wanted to see what all the hub bub was about and..... My gosh. They have what I've been looking for all these years.

A 1911 in .38 super.

Someone, quick! Tell me if RIA makes decent 1911's!
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on September 27, 2015, 09:49:31 pm
https://us.armscor.com/search/eyJjb2xsZWN0aW9uIjoicHJvZHVjdHMiLCJsb29zZV9lbmRzIjoieWVzIiwicmVzdWx0X3BhZ2UiOiJzZWFyY2giLCJzZWFyY2hfbW9kZSI6ImFsbCIsInNpdGUiOiJhcm1zY29yLXVzYSIsImtleXdvcmRzIjoiMzggc3VwZXIifQ
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GaBoy45 on September 27, 2015, 10:40:12 pm

Damn You, HiVelSword!  Now I need a pair of the RIA high cap 10mm, a full size and a midsize.  Also thinking about a mid size high cap TCM combo.  A 17 + 1 9mm commander, sounds like a good carry gun to me.

Does anyone know who makes RIA's double stack mags?

My buddy just bought the double stack 9mm and it uses para style magazines.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Kaso on September 27, 2015, 11:01:26 pm
My buddy just bought the double stack 9mm and it uses para style magazines.
I am not the world's biggest fan of the 1911 platform, but a double stack Para-Ordnance actually fits my rather small hands better than a regular 1911 does.  I probably will never be able to justify funding a full custom build, but a RIA 10mm double stack might be in my future.



Kaso
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Roper1911 on September 28, 2015, 05:22:36 am
https://us.armscor.com/products/rock-ultra-fs-10mm

Wanted to see what all the hub bub was about and..... My gosh. They have what I've been looking for all these years.

A 1911 in .38 super.

Someone, quick! Tell me if RIA makes decent 1911's!
I love my rock island.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: freeman1685 on September 28, 2015, 10:01:03 pm
https://us.armscor.com/products/rock-ultra-fs-10mm

Wanted to see what all the hub bub was about and..... My gosh. They have what I've been looking for all these years.

A 1911 in .38 super.

Someone, quick! Tell me if RIA makes decent 1911's!

I've had a Rock Island for years, no issues.  Solid platform, reliable.

Sent from my Droid

Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on September 28, 2015, 11:40:27 pm
I love my rock island.

I've had a Rock Island for years, no issues.  Solid platform, reliable.

Sent from my Droid



Awesome! And they look reasonably priced too!
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: tokugawa on September 29, 2015, 12:17:06 am
When the threat environment changes, the choice of tool may change also. See my link in "general" about the westgate mall attack-
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: sarge712 on October 01, 2015, 07:51:33 am
There was one time shooting my Springer TRP I could actually see the slide slowing down as I shot. It never FTF but a little Slipstream worked wonders. The only issues I've ever had with my Compact have been mag issues. I don't use those mags any more.

I'd carry my TRP as a duty weapon if it was issued. I'm not going to subject my expensive semi custom TRP to the abuse it would receive following a dog around. Plus I frequently go to other jurisdictions and I'm not sure how quickly I'd get my gun back if I was involved in a shooting. If another agency wants to hold the department Glock long term I don't care. I'll just get another issued. 

There's a reservation to the north and I've heard if the FBI gets your gun from an OIS good luck getting it back. Sarge712 probably has better info on that than me.

I use the same chain of thought as well on duty and we go all over the place in support of other agencies. I'd rather them take my Glock than my 1911. Here we haven't had that bad of a deal with the FBI returning personal firearms. I used my WASR in a shooting and it was returned promptly as soon as we were cleared by the US Attorney. Now the NC State Bureau of Investigation are noted dicks about that. It was going on a year after my buddy was cleared by the state district attorney and the SBI lab still hadn't returned his personal owned S&W 659. He began calling them every Monday then started going up the chain of command till he hit the Ivory Tower in Raleigh. When he finally got it back it was disassembled down to the last screw, spring and plunger, way beyond the simple ballistics test needed in a post-shooting investigation. He just laughed at the pettiness as he was an armorer but our chief was pissed and rattled some heads over it.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on October 01, 2015, 11:27:19 am
When he finally got it back it was disassembled down to the last screw, spring and plunger, way beyond the simple ballistics test needed in a post-shooting investigation.

That's just spite.   
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: strangelittleman on October 01, 2015, 07:48:21 pm
SBI....Oh, you mean the Second Bunch of Idiots??
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: coelacanth on October 01, 2015, 08:16:28 pm
 :rotfl   .   .   .   never knew the actual designation for that particular acronym.   :cool
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Panhead Bill on October 01, 2015, 08:23:32 pm
Ah, what the hell, I'll chime in here (just because I haven't posted on here in ages). I carry a 1911 on a daily basis and shoot uspsa matches with it regularly. The only failures I've had with it were due to worn out magazines. A little bit of slipstream and she runs like a top. With 2 spare mags I don't think I'm under-gunned in any realistic circumstances I'd find myself in.

On a side note, Shaw is a good guy, a straight shooter, and from what I've heard - a great instructor.

Bill
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Correia on October 07, 2015, 03:51:15 pm
Tuning in late.

Magazine capacity: Meh... Up next, let's talk about how the single stack Glock is the greatest carry gun ever. But if I'm worried about it, I'll carry my STI that holds 20 rounds.

Safety Lever: It isn't rocket science. You expect these people to do all this complex problem solving under stress, but they can't flip a lever? Hell, with my regular grip I can't not flip off the safety. Oh, but we can routinely expect them to do even more complex stuff using a rifle that has a safety lever, but not on a pistol BECAUSE YOU WILL DIE!

Magazine Compatibility: What is this? Ye Olde Dayes and the gun industry is all like Herp Derp can't make box with spring inside? Does he live some place where all they get is the Tapco catalog? Buy good mags. Then use them. Do they work? Yay! Do they not work? Chuck them. This hasn't really been an issue with 1911 mags since Chip McCormick said, hey, maybe we should make mags that aren't total s___, and Bill Wilson was all like, that's a great idea!

And I'm saying this as a dude with $2,000 of numbered STI mags. (Oh, if they do another AWB, I am SO READY). Paint pen. Stick a number on it. It sucks? I use it as a practice mag because I'm too cheap to throw away $50 mags.

Reliability: Again? Seriously? Is this Guns & Ammo circa 1984?

Holy s___.

Purchase gun. Does gun work? Yay! Carry gun. Does gun not work? Send it back to get fixed. Does gun still not work? Get rid of it. Buy better gun. Repeat.

I don't know about you guys, but if my gun is 99.9% reliable instead of 99.99% reliable, I'll just have to somehow figure out how to get by.

Where are these guys finding all of these super unreliable guns these days?
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Robinson on October 07, 2015, 04:48:08 pm
I agree with Correia.  Even with 9mm 1911s these days, just find mags that work in your gun and stick with them.  McCormick, Wilson Combat, and maybe one or two other manufacturers have recently started offering updated mags that pretty much solve the 9mm feeding problems.  The mags that shipped with my recent production Colt Commander 9mm work fine as well.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: sqlbullet on October 07, 2015, 11:14:24 pm
Where are these guys finding all of these super unreliable guns these days?

Well first, they buy whatever they read about in American Handgunner last week.  Sight un-seen on Gunbroker.  For a 10% over MSRP premium.

Then they changed every spring, drawbar, connector and widget in the gun with something out of Guns R Us cause tactical.

And finally, to save money, they load the cheapest cast bullets they can find without sizing the bore, using a recipe from the interwebz, with no caliper, just by eyeball for COAL and mouth diameter of loaded ammo.

But, it is the 1911's fault it won't run.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: sohmdaddy on October 09, 2015, 12:22:08 pm
Unreliable 1911s? Maybe they are buying Kimber Ultras, using cheap mags to save money, and lubing them with Froglube.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: sohmdaddy on October 09, 2015, 12:26:15 pm
But seriously, Shaw isn't saying that they are bad, just that the features are not his cup of tea. He already knows and trusts Glocks, Sigs and Berettas, has seen many 1911s malfunction in his classes and just doesn't want to have any doubts about his personal carry gun.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: tokugawa on October 09, 2015, 12:51:33 pm
I bet 90% of firearm reliability problems stem from modifications.

 
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on October 09, 2015, 08:07:22 pm
Unreliable 1911s? Maybe they are buying Kimber Ultras, using cheap mags to save money, and lubing them with Froglube.
That's what I'd sell to a guy I didn't like.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on October 09, 2015, 08:12:45 pm
^ :rotfl
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Roper1911 on October 09, 2015, 09:01:44 pm
That's what I'd sell to a guy I didn't like.
not a blinged out highpoint?
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: MTK20 on October 09, 2015, 09:19:04 pm
not a blinged out highpoint?

No. That one he liked so much, he kept it himself  ;).
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: GeorgeHill on October 09, 2015, 11:32:43 pm
Don't judge.  It's fabulous.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Fiesta Resistance on October 10, 2015, 06:12:37 am
My first pistol was a Springfield XD40. I still have it and shoot it every now and then. It's a good gun and I've never had a single issue with it. I used to have a Sig P229 at one time. I liked the gun, but I just couldn't shoot it well. Eventually I saw a Sig 1911 and decided to trade in the 229 towards the 1911 to try something different. I have never shot better with another pistol and the 1911 has also been perfectly reliable. To me, that is the point that really matters in a carry handgun. When you need to use it, can you maximize your chance of hitting a vital area with a wimpy pistol round?

My XD40 carries four more rounds in the magazine and has essentially the same if not more energy behind each bullet but I am simply not as good with it. It feels slippery even when my hand is bone dry. The recoil is also much snappier, it's harder to get back on target as quickly, and the XD40 just doesn't point as naturally for me. My 1911 is the opposite. It just works for me and that's what I want: a pistol that I know I can use in a stressful situation or during a weekend IDPA match and it's my best chance to win. That's why I trust my life with a 1911.

As an aside, Daniel Shaw seems like an awesome guy. Back in 2012 when I was in Lemoore learning to fly the Hornet, my wife was stationed down in San Diego. I had, at best, a 4.5 hour drive each way to see her every weekend and I needed something to break up the monotony. Radio in central California is...not good, so I would download podcasts and listen to those as I drove. I wanted to listen to something gun related and found Daniel's podcast and loved it. He was funny, humble, intelligent, and knowledgable. Plus, he's a fellow Marine, so I have to give him some love.

Those podcasts helped make my weekends a little less painfull. Especially the ones where The Ogre joined him and talked guns and zombies. It was like I was the quiet part of a couple guys talking guns while just hanging out. When you get stuck in three hours of LA traffic at 8 o'clock on a Friday night and all you want is to see your wife, you need some pretty strong medicine to occupy your mind. So Ogre, here's my thanks to you and Daniel.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: JackCrow on October 12, 2015, 06:42:17 pm
Being a wheel gunner all my life the 1911 is the most comfortable and natural-pointing bottom feeder I've handled.

My Kimber CDP II has been flawless for the 1000+ rounds I've put through it (Wilson mags). Now that I have my Adams Crossroads rig, it will be getting carried on a regular basis.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: rpage1977 on October 17, 2015, 11:23:43 pm
This dude may be Brother Theresa of Beretta, but if he can't operate or effectively teach a 1911 safety, he is neither a shootist, nor an instructor.

I served with Daniel for a number of years, and just recently got the pleasure of taking a class taught by him.  Vitals of Handgun 1 & 2.  Of all the cats (and one kitten) on the line, there were 3 Glocks, 1 P226, 1 VP9, 1 1911, and my Sig P938.

Daniel took extra care to make sure that myself and the gentlemen (Chris was his name I believe) carrying the 1911 worked our skills with the safety.  He was able to relate to both of us, using two different terms and appealing to our different mindsets.

Before anyone gets bent out of shape, I'm not jumping to Daniel's defense, because there is PLENTY that he and I don't agree on, when it comes to shooting and skill sets...but I would caution you not to totally dismiss a guy from a 5 min video where editing was done and I'm sure more than a decent amount of subject matter was discarded
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: H2O MAN on October 21, 2015, 02:37:51 pm

What say you?

I spent a good bit of time shooting the 1911 when I was younger, but my .45 pistol of choice is the Glock 21... mainly because it fits my hand better than the 1911. I like the 1911 & I don't fault anyone for choosing it, but the G21 is the best choice for me.
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Kaso on October 21, 2015, 03:02:09 pm
I am going to chime back in with a new perspective. 

While I have had 1911s for almost 6 years, I have never really loved them.  The grip was okay, but not the best, and the trigger was doable.  Nothing really special, and I had a hard time understanding the fan boys.

Lately, a new set of grips (rubber finger grooves) have had me reevaluating the grip profile, and just this week I finally got around to messing with the little screw in the trigger face, just to see what it did... 


:o


So that is the appeal...  :-[  I still don't plan to embrace the platform, but now I can at least understand what all the fuss is about.



Kaso
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: luke213(adamsholsters) on October 21, 2015, 03:24:11 pm
I am going to chime back in with a new perspective. 

While I have had 1911s for almost 6 years, I have never really loved them.  The grip was okay, but not the best, and the trigger was doable.  Nothing really special, and I had a hard time understanding the fan boys.

Lately, a new set of grips (rubber finger grooves) have had me reevaluating the grip profile, and just this week I finally got around to messing with the little screw in the trigger face, just to see what it did... 


:o


So that is the appeal...  :-[  I still don't plan to embrace the platform, but now I can at least understand what all the fuss is about.



Kaso

The fact that you can do those two things is one of the appealing bits, sort of like an AR in the fact that you can make allot of changes pretty easily and change the way the gun runs and fits your hand.

But a good 1911 trigger is something that I really enjoy;)

Luke
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Kaso on October 21, 2015, 04:05:49 pm
The fact that you can do those two things is one of the appealing bits, sort of like an AR in the fact that you can make allot of changes pretty easily and change the way the gun runs and fits your hand.

But a good 1911 trigger is something that I really enjoy;)

Luke
Yes, my only concern is that little screw being able to move under recoil.  I think loctite on the threads might be wise, especially for a defensive weapon.



Kaso
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: luke213(adamsholsters) on October 21, 2015, 04:15:27 pm
Yes, my only concern is that little screw being able to move under recoil.  I think loctite on the threads might be wise, especially for a defensive weapon.



Kaso

That's the normal for defensive guns guys always recommend blue loctite or removing the takeup screw all together so that it's can't interfere.

Luke
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Kaso on October 21, 2015, 04:24:26 pm
That's the normal for defensive guns guys always recommend blue loctite or removing the takeup screw all together so that it's can't interfere.

Luke
Didn't know that, but it makes sense.

Perhaps it's better if I don't follow this line of thought too far, lest I find myself contributing $150 to the Adams' family budget...  :-\ :facepalm



Kaso
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: luke213(adamsholsters) on October 21, 2015, 04:44:21 pm
Well on the 1911 side of things there are a few in the in stock sale;) Though no Texas rigs like you normally get;)

Luke
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Kaso on October 21, 2015, 05:20:08 pm
Well on the 1911 side of things there are a few in the in stock sale;) Though no Texas rigs like you normally get;)

Luke
No lamb, either.  Trust me, I already looked at the stocked items on your site.  :whistle


Hi everyone...  My name is Kaso, and I'm an addict.  It's been less than three weeks since I last moved to purchase a holster, and less than five minutes since the last time I considered doing it again...  :-[



Kaso
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: freeman1685 on October 21, 2015, 05:21:42 pm
Owning a 1911 is like driving a car, it takes some adjustment.  Now before you guys start rolling your eyes, think about it.
When you first sit down in a new or strange car, you have to adjust the seat, and the mirrors.  To get everything just so.  Some folks insist on all the bells and whistles: 6 way heated reclining bucket seats w/lumbar support, and motorized mirrors (the 1911).
Then there's the Yugo (the Tupperware).  :neener
Sent from my Droid

Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Roper1911 on October 21, 2015, 06:31:46 pm
No lamb, either.  Trust me, I already looked at the stocked items on your site.  :whistle


Hi everyone...  My name is Kaso, and I'm an addict.  It's been less than three weeks since I last moved to purchase a holster, and less than five minutes since the last time I considered doing it again...  :-[



Kaso
I need a new holster for my commander. unfortunately none of the available ones are for the 4.25 inch commander...
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: luke213(adamsholsters) on October 21, 2015, 06:46:44 pm
I need a new holster for my commander. unfortunately none of the available ones are for the 4.25 inch commander...


You just missed out, I had a leather lined Crossroads for a commander in stock but it went down the road at the gun show right before this sale;)

Luke
Title: Re: 4 Reasons I don't trust a 1911 with my life
Post by: Outbreak on October 23, 2015, 03:25:54 pm
...the trigger was doable.  Nothing really special...

Lately, a new set of grips (rubber finger grooves) have had me reevaluating the grip profile, and just this week I finally got around to messing with the little screw in the trigger face, just to see what it did... 


:o


So that is the appeal...  :-[  I still don't plan to embrace the platform, but now I can at least understand what all the fuss is about.



Kaso

There is nothing better than a proper 1911 trigger. Until we get electronic triggers, I cannot imagine a handgun with a better trigger than a well-tuned 1911.

Yes, my only concern is that little screw being able to move under recoil.  I think loctite on the threads might be wise, especially for a defensive weapon.



Kaso

I've got over 10k through one of my guns with the overtravel screw. No loctite, and no movement of the screw. And I have had some other screws on that gun back out and depart the frame after just a few hundred rounds.