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Author Topic: Tormach for gun making? (Cnc machines)  (Read 6086 times)

kunkmiester

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Tormach for gun making? (Cnc machines)
« on: October 31, 2019, 08:46:54 pm »
Anyone here use one?  Planning to get one for the garage eventually, curious if anyone is using one for gun stuff.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: Tormach for gun making? (Cnc machines)
    « Reply #1 on: October 31, 2019, 09:52:32 pm »
    Haven't used one but perusing the web site gives me the idea they might be ideal for prototyping work.   :hmm
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    sqlbullet

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    Re: Tormach for gun making? (Cnc machines)
    « Reply #2 on: November 01, 2019, 09:55:08 am »
    Which model are you considering.  Pretty big gulf between the PCNC series and the MX series.

    The PCNC would be fine for prototyping and working with softer materials.

    But, at least in my area, you could pick up a decent used bridgeport style mill and do a cnc conversion for the prices here.
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    kunkmiester

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    Re: Tormach for gun making? (Cnc machines)
    « Reply #3 on: November 01, 2019, 09:43:11 pm »
    The big difference is steppers do slower feeds.  Pcnc vs mx will be depending on finances when the actual purchase happens, I have space for a 770 though, and would be getting the bt30 spindle and tool changer.

    I've built most of a router, I'm more interested in a functional machine rather than a project.
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    LowKey

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    Re: Tormach for gun making? (Cnc machines)
    « Reply #4 on: November 01, 2019, 10:06:37 pm »
    For someone who is not a machinist, not inclined to be one, yet who would like to be able to push a button and have a machine spit out a frame/lower, upper receiver/slide, or other various parts....where do we start?
    Seriously.
    I am not a machinist. I do not have the temperament to be concerned about thousandths of an inch in what I am doing. I respect those that do, but that is not me.
    I need something on the "plug and play" level.
    As a matter of fact, "FREEDOM" needs something on the plug and play level.

    It shouldn't be about pride and arrogance regarding machining skills, it should be about making sure the lest talented kid in shop class can make a modern firearm  without "professional help".


    I want folks to be able to hit a button and get a pile of parts they can assemble into a pistol or rifle that they need and can use.
    Not an argument about how machinist are under appreciated, or how the people who are "really " interested in being free will spend the time and money to go through training to code CNC.

    Seriously.
    Let's come up with a basic set of "kit" that will let someone push a button and spit out parts, from a receiver to a FCG.
    I'd be willing to throw money at someone who can code for it, here and there...now and then.


     

    kunkmiester

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    Re: Tormach for gun making? (Cnc machines)
    « Reply #5 on: November 01, 2019, 11:21:57 pm »
    Not gonna happen with a small machine.  3D printing is where this will come out, but it will be a little while before metal printing is up to being household.

    Honestly this sort of thing will never be a household thing, except for hobbyists focused on making.  This will be "head to the makerspace" sort of thing, not "go to the garage" thing.

    A Tormach will still need operation and tooling changovers, so it's not idiot proof.  The closest I could see to that would be a "mill-turn" machine, which would internally handle things.  They start at a few hundred thousand and go up though.

    I was looking at the 770 to make some air cannon parts, and would be doing guns on the side.  I'd be trying to share a lot though.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: Tormach for gun making? (Cnc machines)
    « Reply #6 on: November 03, 2019, 01:33:36 am »
    Admittedly my understanding of this area is going to result in oversimplification but the problem with the "plug and play" approach is that you can't just program a machine - yet - and have it produce a pile of parts.  It has nothing to do with temperament or pride or arrogance or appreciation of a given skill set when it comes to producing said parts.  What it has to do with is all the ancillary stuff the machine operator has to do to prepare the machine to do what it is programmed to do. 

    It can't load the raw material to be machined into itself.  It can't accept or reject that material from a manufacturer based upon deviation from specified tolerances.  It can't load machining fluid(s) into itself and/or clear machining waste away from the work area so it doesn't impede the operation of the tool(s) or feed mechanisms or sensors.  It may be able to sense wear to a tool or some other deviation from specifications that would result in a defective or inferior quality part but it can't change out the worn tool for a fresh one and set it to proper tolerances and then resume operation.  That's not the whole story but you can at least begin to get the idea.

    A machine that could do these things is an order of magnitude more complex than anything currently being built.  At this point we don't have the tools to build the tools necessary to build that machine.   Some day but not today.   It would have to be the result of a cross disciplinary effort that combines many elements at the cutting edge of engineering, robotics, computer science, materials science and other disciplines as well. 

    A worthy goal, perhaps, but unless I am completely misinformed we aren't anywhere close to it today.   :hmm
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    LowKey

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    Re: Tormach for gun making? (Cnc machines)
    « Reply #7 on: November 03, 2019, 07:54:26 pm »

    The Sherline CNC you directed me to is "plug and play" enough.
    Rather like "plug and play" computer peripherals...you've got to load the ink and paper in your printer, ect. 

    And to clarify, I wasn't intending to imply that professional machinists are arrogant. I worked with one years back (side note: NEVER do rough carpentry with a machinist), great guy and happy to answer questions.
    I have noticed that some hobbyists are a touch arrogant, in a manner similar to the grumpy variety of HAM.   

    Admittedly my understanding of this area is going to result in oversimplification but the problem with the "plug and play" approach is that you can't just program a machine - yet - and have it produce a pile of parts.  It has nothing to do with temperament or pride or arrogance or appreciation of a given skill set when it comes to producing said parts.  What it has to do with is all the ancillary stuff the machine operator has to do to prepare the machine to do what it is programmed to do. 

    It can't load the raw material to be machined into itself.  It can't accept or reject that material from a manufacturer based upon deviation from specified tolerances.  It can't load machining fluid(s) into itself and/or clear machining waste away from the work area so it doesn't impede the operation of the tool(s) or feed mechanisms or sensors.  It may be able to sense wear to a tool or some other deviation from specifications that would result in a defective or inferior quality part but it can't change out the worn tool for a fresh one and set it to proper tolerances and then resume operation.  That's not the whole story but you can at least begin to get the idea.

    A machine that could do these things is an order of magnitude more complex than anything currently being built.  At this point we don't have the tools to build the tools necessary to build that machine.   Some day but not today.   It would have to be the result of a cross disciplinary effort that combines many elements at the cutting edge of engineering, robotics, computer science, materials science and other disciplines as well. 

    A worthy goal, perhaps, but unless I am completely misinformed we aren't anywhere close to it today.   :hmm

    coelacanth

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    Re: Tormach for gun making? (Cnc machines)
    « Reply #8 on: November 03, 2019, 11:53:28 pm »
    Sorry, I must have misunderstood your earlier post.
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    LowKey

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    Re: Tormach for gun making? (Cnc machines)
    « Reply #9 on: November 04, 2019, 10:56:29 am »
    No worries, my fault for not doing a better job of explaining what I meant.:D
    Sorry, I must have misunderstood your earlier post.

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