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Author Topic: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...  (Read 3075 times)

booksmart

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The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
« on: May 31, 2013, 11:10:54 am »
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/05/ancient-us-weapon-in-syria/

Excerpt:

Quote
Watch enough YouTube videos of the fighting in Syria, and you’ll start to notice it: a long-tubed gun, mounted on the back of either a jeep or large, fast pickup. Usually it’s blasting bunkers, blockhouses, fortified positions, or places where snipers are hiding. It even goes after tanks. And whenever it fires, the gun seems to kick up way more hell behind it than what it sends out the barrel’s front end. It’s the M40 106mm recoilless rifle, an American-made, Vietnam-vintage weapon that got dropped from the Army and Marine inventory back during the early 1970s. Until recently, the 106mm hadn’t seen much action in the irregular wars that have swept the globe. Then M40s somehow came into the hands of rebels in Libya and Syria. Suddenly, the 106mm – light, cheap, easily transportable, simple to operate, and packing a punch all out of proportion to its modest size — has emerged as a possible Great Asymmetric Weapon of the Day.

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    Coronach

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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #1 on: May 31, 2013, 11:21:35 am »
    I've often wondered why we completely discarded the old recoilless rifle. I mean, I understand that it is not very capable vs modern armor, but when you have a hut that needs blowed up, a RR round is a lot cheaper than a Javelin. It's like the good ole' 5" naval gun. Useless in modern warfare, right? Until you need to shoot some junk, like oil derricks and jihadis in speedboats.

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    ksuguy

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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #2 on: May 31, 2013, 11:58:04 am »
    I want one for my pickup. :D
    Kansas

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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #3 on: May 31, 2013, 12:27:51 pm »
    I had always thought it would be cool to mount my PKM on the roll bar of my jeep. I think I was thinking to small though. Recoilless rifle is really the way to go! >:D
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    Nick Cage

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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #4 on: May 31, 2013, 01:35:05 pm »
    I'd love to have a 14.5 KPV on a turret ring on the top of my Tahoe.
    A 75mm RR would be awesome as a switch out option!

    I think an Ontos would be a pretty darn handy thing for our guys dealing with mud hut dwellers over there.
    Would have to be cheaper to operate than anything else, and those 106mm rounds would do awesome things to bad people!

    Nightcrawler

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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #5 on: May 31, 2013, 03:39:45 pm »
    I've often wondered why we completely discarded the old recoilless rifle. I mean, I understand that it is not very capable vs modern armor, but when you have a hut that needs blowed up, a RR round is a lot cheaper than a Javelin. It's like the good ole' 5" naval gun. Useless in modern warfare, right? Until you need to shoot some junk, like oil derricks and jihadis in speedboats.

    We haven't.  The M136 AT-4 is a smooth-bore recoilless weapon based on the Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle.  There are way more of them in service than Javelins, and they're a lot cheaper.

    The issue with the AT-4 is that it fires a HEAT round. Decent for anti-armor, less than ideal for other uses.  Standard recoilless rifles have a multitude of warheads available, of course.
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    JesseL

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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #6 on: May 31, 2013, 03:51:02 pm »
    But everyone thinks the AT-4 is a rocket launcher.
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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #7 on: May 31, 2013, 03:59:24 pm »
    Isn't the Carl Gustav in US inventory?  Doesn't it fire different types of rounds?  I know it's not a 106mm, but it's a whole lot more portable, too.
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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #8 on: May 31, 2013, 04:16:51 pm »
    But everyone thinks the AT-4 is a rocket launcher.

    If I didn't know better, I'd almost think you were trying to get me to go on a rant.

    Isn't the Carl Gustav in US inventory?  Doesn't it fire different types of rounds?  I know it's not a 106mm, but it's a whole lot more portable, too.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustav_recoilless_rifle

    Quote
    M3 MAAWS

    The M3 Multi-role Anti-armor Anti-tank Weapon System (MAAWS) is the U.S. military designation for the Carl Gustaf M3 recoilless rifle. It is primarily used by USSOCOM forces such as the Army Special Forces, 75th Ranger Regiment, Navy SEALS, Delta Force, DEVGRU and MARSOC. When in use with the 75th Ranger Regiment it is known as the Ranger Anti-tank Weapons System (RAWS).

    The M3 MAAWS fires the following ammunition:

        High Explosive Dual Purpose (HEDP) round
        High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) round
        High Explosive (HE) round
        Illumination round
        Smoke round
        Area Defence Munition (ADM) flechette round

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    JesseL

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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #9 on: May 31, 2013, 04:31:06 pm »
    If I didn't know better, I'd almost think you were trying to get me to go on a rant.

    If I wanted to do that I'd have said that it is a rocket launcher then linked to this as supporting evidence:
    http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/AT4/m136-at4-study-guide.shtml

     :rotfl

    Of course I know better. No rocket motor = no rocket.
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    Nightcrawler

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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013, 04:34:47 pm »
    *twitch*

    Yeah, I remember that.  Heh.  To quote Jeff Cooper, "let us all strive to know what we are talking about".

    Since everyone reading this isn't privy to my Facebook page, allow me to summarize.  The AT-4 is a recoilless weapon.  It is not a rocket. The projectile flies ballistically after leaving the tube. It has no rocket motor, no sustained acceleration after firing, and is in no way, shape, or form a rocket. It has more in common with the pistons in your car's engine than it does a rocket. I don't care what they CGI'ed in that Jason Statham movie.

    Okay? Now gimme five.
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    aikorob

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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #11 on: May 31, 2013, 09:49:41 pm »
    I want one for my pickup. :D
    ME TOO!!!!

    especially with the 4th coming up....BIG fireworks   :clap
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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #12 on: June 01, 2013, 11:03:02 am »
    Since everyone reading this isn't privy to my Facebook page, allow me to summarize.  The AT-4 is a recoilless weapon.  It is not a rocket. The projectile flies ballistically after leaving the tube. It has no rocket motor, no sustained acceleration after firing, and is in no way, shape, or form a rocket.

    Okay? Now gimme five.

    Ok thanks. I am glad some one set me steight becasue I was one of those who was under the impression the AT-4 was a rocket.
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    Re: The classics never go out of style, even in Syria...
    « Reply #13 on: June 01, 2013, 09:37:13 pm »
    If I didn't know better, I'd almost think you were trying to get me to go on a rant.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustav_recoilless_rifle



    This is the evolution of the 'Nam era recoiless rifle. It's way more man portable and efficient. There's a reason why they're mounted on a vehicle. You can't hump them all over by foot, or dismount them very easily.


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