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Author Topic: 20/20 and the "loophole"  (Read 8460 times)

FMJ

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Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2009, 12:23:07 am »
CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

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    Thernlund

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #26 on: April 11, 2009, 12:26:49 am »
    Hmmm... I'm not sure what that means.  :hmm


    -T.
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    FluffyHitman

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #27 on: April 11, 2009, 12:33:21 am »
    I think it is pointing out how no matter whether it is legal or illegal to sell without paperwork, criminals still won't get FFLs and fill out the paperwork. Could be worded better, I think.
    "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

    Obeone

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #28 on: April 11, 2009, 01:07:33 am »
    I started to watch, but when just to see what they were saying, but when they started off with lies, and started to get mad, I stopped.  Got to the badly staged classroom set up with a guy who doesn't have a clue how to draw a gun. :banghead :bash :cuss :headexplode
    It

    FluffyHitman

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #29 on: April 11, 2009, 01:13:06 am »
    Yeah, I saw that in the preview. Did he try to pull it out through the neck-hole of his shirt?

    My mother and father aren't very informed on the laws and statistics, mostly because they don't much care, but when I started off on that show when I saw it was coming up, my mother even mentioned how most people don't know how to use their guns, which is why you are more likely to get killed by your own gun than use it to defend yourself. I was so very happy, she was actually paying attention when I blathered on during our conversations.
    "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

    FMJ

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #30 on: April 11, 2009, 01:24:36 am »
    How can I word it better?

    Anyway, I'm in the process of watching this, and I must say these people are really good at locking in and slanting their bulls___
    CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

    Thernlund

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #31 on: April 11, 2009, 01:27:27 am »
    I have this recorded and was wanting to see it.  Now, after reading this thread, I kind of just want to hit the delete button.


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    FMJ

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #32 on: April 11, 2009, 01:29:30 am »
    You might as well delete it.  But now I feel like going to the range tomorrow.

    [This next part might be redundant to some--as previously mentioned, I've never seen this type of program before so I went ahead and watched it.]
    EDIT:  I just finished watching the show; we all know it is biased.  The student's experiments sucked.  The viewing public was not made aware of the variables in the experiment?  How do we know that this experiment was being conducted in an honest way?

    Why assume that all classrooms/lecture hall will have the same layout?
    How do we know that the holsters the students were provided with weren't "trouble''? (They reported that some students had trouble drawing their weapon)
    Why assume that all students will have easy access in an OWB carry at 3 o'clock?
    Why always assume that the active shooter will be an expert marksman--as the guy in the experiment was.

    What do gun shows have to do with this?  Criminals or murderers will get guns if they really want to.

    Then they made it seem that owning a gun was too much trouble and that everyone will automatically end up injured or killed.

    The program was fail, but what concerns me is that the sheeple will believe all of this BS and go out and vote that way.  What pisses me off is that right at the end of the show the lady mentioned something about reports and statistics on defensive firearms use as not reliable.  She claimed that they were unable to find at least one report with a reliable source.  And that those with "credible sources" simply contradicted themselves and thus were canceled out.
    « Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 02:09:00 am by FMJ »
    CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

    swatspyder

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #33 on: April 11, 2009, 04:44:51 am »
    I watched it and can't explain how ridiculous the experiment in the classroom was.
    The trained professional shooter, shoots the teacher and goes right to the armed student who is sitting IN THE SAME EXACT SEAT!

    What if they had moved the armed student to a random location and had the trained professional shooter try to shoot everyone...  That would make a better experiment.


    And it pains me to see that all of them just stood right straight up to pull their gun out.  Why are you standing up and exposing yourself!!!???
    They were not trained at all to defend themselves and I believe the trainers taught them to stand up and not to drop under the desk and protect yourself, all while using cover and to scan the situation.

    The whole show drove me absolutely NUTS and I wanted to yell so bad that they are all idiotic sheeple!!!!


    Common sense tells you to drop to the ground and protect yourself, not act like a freaking hero and jump straight up and stand IN ONE SPOT!!!  :banghead :cuss :bash

    230RN

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #34 on: April 11, 2009, 12:22:30 pm »
    I watched a total of about five minutes of it in about one minute segments here and there.  This was nothing but Yellow Journalism at its worst.

    Makes you want to think about "reasonable regulations" for the press.


    FMJ

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #35 on: April 11, 2009, 12:36:51 pm »
    +1 on the Yellow Journalism observation.
    CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

    ridata

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #36 on: April 11, 2009, 02:54:26 pm »
    That would appear on the surface to be a straw purchase, no?  :scrutiny


    -T.

    I'm gonna have to go with a no.
    As Outbreak said he essentially bought the guns for the police. But that's a different legal case than buying them for anyone else.
    In the first case, the ultimate possessor (the police) is itself a legal buyer.
    Second, it was a gift. George or someone would know more about this, but I'm pretty sure it's legal to buy a gun as a gift for someone who otherwise could legally buy it.
    If I saw a guy with a 60cu/ft safe filled to the brim with nothing but Jennings, Lorcins and Hi-Points, I'd look at the guy and say "Right on brother".
    -Thernlund

    Thernlund

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #37 on: April 11, 2009, 03:00:07 pm »
    As Outbreak said he essentially bought the guns for the police. But that's a different legal case than buying them for anyone else.

    Thank you.  I was waiting for that.  THAT is what pisses me right off.  An unnecessary double-standard.  >:(

    Second, it was a gift. George or someone would know more about this, but I'm pretty sure it's legal to buy a gun as a gift for someone who otherwise could legally buy it.

    Yes.  It is.  I've given many a gun gift.


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    Outbreak

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #38 on: April 11, 2009, 03:38:11 pm »
    I think the experiment would've had a little more credibility if the armed student sat in some random seat, the active shooter wasn't told where the armed student would be, and the active shooter was another untrained participant. Take the pretty blonde girl and sit her in the crowd somewhere, and then put one of the guys in a blue hoodie and tell him to shoot the teacher and then go wild.

    Interestingly enough, this looks like it was done at Essex Community College, right down the street from my parents' house in Maryland.
    TexasOutbreak

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    FluffyHitman

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #39 on: April 11, 2009, 07:14:02 pm »
    Why always assume that the active shooter will be an expert marksman--as the guy in the experiment was.
    That's a very good point. Consider how long shooters usually get before the police decide to move in. Then consider how many casualties there are. Especially Columbine, 13 dead, 23 wounded, over the course of more than three hours. Considering how crowded high schools are, anyone with decent combat marsksmanship, let alone two people, would kill more than that in ten or fifteen minutes. Granted, at Columbine, they didn't just go in and shoot for three hours, but still, that is a lot of time.

    NIU, crowded lecture hall, 150-200 people, 58 shots fired (six with a shotgun), 24 people hit. These people aren't hardened trained killers, they are insane fluff-ups that decide to take it out on random people. And they really aren't expecting people to shoot back.
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    Gunsmom

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #40 on: April 11, 2009, 11:35:14 pm »
    I think if i were a student and carrying, I wouldn't be in the front row center seat.

    Besides, the whole point of the exercise somehow escapes me. You're more dead if you were shot because you were armed than if you were shot because you were defenseless???

    FMJ

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #41 on: April 12, 2009, 01:05:32 am »
    Quote
    Besides, the whole point of the exercise somehow escapes me. You're more dead if you were shot because you were armed than if you were shot because you were defenseless???

    I think the point these losers (the media) were trying to make was that if you have a gun on you during a crazy guy's shooting spree, you are still GOING to fail, or accidentally hit a bystander AND that since you suck you should not bother with having a gun in the first place.  (The title of the program was "If only I had a Gun.")

    I think the other bad part of the program was that "experiment" with the teenagers moving out stuff from the garage.

    Were they even briefed for at least five minutes on the four rules--the kindergartners were supposedly show an Eddie Eagle film.  What about the teenagers.  Of course the teenagers would mess around if not properly and seriously told the safety rules.

    This is a failed experiment.  I have nothing else to say.
    CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

    Tass

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    Re: 20/20 and the "loophole"
    « Reply #42 on: April 12, 2009, 05:40:59 pm »
    I quit watching after the first few 'classroom' experiments.  I recorded, but haven't felt like going back to it.  What really bothered me was that they were taking very 'new' shooters and outfitting them in the classroom with gloves and hoods.  They were setting the students up to fail from the beginning.  I agree the seating should have been random, up to the student to pick his/her seat.

    Tass

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