Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.

Author Topic: So, who IS the 1%?  (Read 8435 times)

booksmart

  • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 6670
  • E. Pluribus Unum.

  • Offline
Re: So, who IS the 1%?
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2012, 08:50:55 pm »
http://www.businessinsider.com/employment-trends-college-graduates-boomers-2012-8

Does this really look like a good time to start making it even more difficult to afford college?

WeTheArmed.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    Doug Wojtowicz

    • Clown prince
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 8543
    • Fly like the wind!

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #26 on: August 25, 2012, 09:17:40 pm »
    Red herring.  :bash
     I still say that these guys actually invest their extra money into the economy.  Yes, they make a profit - that's their incentive to risk their money - but the benefit to the economy is profound.  (See my example about Crusader, above^)
     And you know what?  It doesn't matter whether it hurts them or not.  Here's why:

    Sorry.  Didn't mean for you guys to take that seriously and personally.  But the tax cuts haven't been obliterated, so... where is our trickle down?  Where is the extra investment?  And worrying about extra regulations - our market isn't hurt, while lead paint is coming in from China in massive amounts to provide our kids and doggies with all the cancer they could eat with a spoon. 

    And... those bastards are still given a favored trade partner status. 

    Maybe we could do a lot more by withdrawing foreign aid from Mexico and Pakistan, two nations that have murdered American citizens and tried to kill embassy staff.  Maybe use some of our old ICBM budget and ask for the old money back, or they get a free nuke dead center.  It'll get to them in ten minutes (less for Mexico).

    Yes, the prior paragraph is endorsing the US engage in nuclear blackmail against cruddy back-biting traitors who take our money and support terrorists and mass murderers.

    And hell, even if they do give us our money back, nuke them on principle.  Worldwide extermination tour...

    editSorry for the ragedrift.  I've got a serious loathing for our neighbors and "allies." 
    IllinoisAfter a shooting spree, they want to take the guns away from everyone who didn't do it.

    -William Burroughs

    SJW is not a synonym of "leftists" or "liberals". Left-wing and right-wing positions are based on economics. SJWs are left-authoritarians which means that they are not liberals. Don't paint all leftists or liberals with the same (misguided) brush.

    Gunnguy

    • Husband, Father, US Air Force Veteran, Scouter, Hunter, Geek, Gamer, PITA (Pain in the A$$), and future comedy star.
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4517
    • You did what with what?

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #27 on: August 25, 2012, 09:18:58 pm »
     :hmm
    You are right.
    What ever did people do to get an education BEFORE the Department of Education and massive student loans and massive student debt?
    All without an Uncle Sam supplying cash loans to go to Colleges with multibillion dollar trust funds and billion dollar ad deals, and funding from sports equipment franchises, etc...etc...ad naseum.
    I think they read books.
    I know, I know. Old fashioned idea.
    But many of the founding fathers were self taught.
    Apprenticed at jobs working for other people while they studied and read and debated and learned.
    Steve Jobs and Bill Gates became Billionaires on their own initiative and invention. Mostly without college degrees.
    Ford invented and produced the most affordable cars in history. Had a sixth grade education I believe.
    Edison studied and tinkered and was mostly self taught, but has more patents than I can count.
    Wright brothers engineered NEW and ACCURATE data regarding lift, drag, and aerodynamics.
    They built and repaired bicycles. Self taught masters of flight.

    Now tell me college is all it's cracked up to be when only about 15% even finish to get a four year degree.
    Where is the Dept Of Education to 'FIX' the robbing and fleecing of America by the Universities and Colleges?
    Nah.... dot gov gets it's 6% to 12% spread over 15 to 30 years.



    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

    Kaso

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7211
    • WTA Hardline Antagonist (aka: Jerk)

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #28 on: August 25, 2012, 09:21:14 pm »
    As much as I might agree with you on this last post, Doug, I got reprimanded for suggesting mass-murder just last week...  Better not say anything further.  ;)



    Kaso

    Gunnguy

    • Husband, Father, US Air Force Veteran, Scouter, Hunter, Geek, Gamer, PITA (Pain in the A$$), and future comedy star.
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4517
    • You did what with what?

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #29 on: August 25, 2012, 09:24:18 pm »
    China isn't doing so hot lately.
    American companies ten years ago loved China...today...not so much.
    Many are bringing production back to America because it's cheaper, easier to communicate with the persons doing the production, and you don't have up to 40% failure rates of the equipment that you get back.
    So the new idea is local production in the country of sale.
    Plus the 'MADE IN USA' logo is big time +1!

    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

    Doug Wojtowicz

    • Clown prince
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 8543
    • Fly like the wind!

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #30 on: August 25, 2012, 09:25:34 pm »
    :hmm
    You are right.
    What ever did people do to get an education BEFORE the Department of Education and massive student loans and massive student debt?
    All without an Uncle Sam supplying cash loans to go to Colleges with multibillion dollar trust funds and billion dollar ad deals, and funding from sports equipment franchises, etc...etc...ad naseum.
    I think they read books.
    I know, I know. Old fashioned idea.

    Try going to the HR of a company without that stupid $75,000 slab of sheepskin and see how they react to your resume.

    About the only people I know who are halfway interested in hiring someone whose education was "reading books" - I'm working for them.  Even REAL libraries want someone with a degree in Library Sciences.   :facepalm

    I wish real life COULD be like USA's Suits (un-barred legal genius works for a law firm) or any of a dozen cop shows where untrained, unqualified people become elite detectives.

    This isn't the 70's or early 80's where Gates and Jobs reinvented technology, or the Turn of the (20th) Century when John Moses Browning was developing modern firearms to a fine art.

    As much as I might agree with you on this last post, Doug, I got reprimanded for suggesting mass-murder just last week...  Better not say anything further.  ;)
    Kaso

    Yeah.  Gotta save it for my last two chapters of my manuscript.  I've got a retired Russian GRU general to hunt down and kill in a snowmobile chase.
    IllinoisAfter a shooting spree, they want to take the guns away from everyone who didn't do it.

    -William Burroughs

    SJW is not a synonym of "leftists" or "liberals". Left-wing and right-wing positions are based on economics. SJWs are left-authoritarians which means that they are not liberals. Don't paint all leftists or liberals with the same (misguided) brush.

    Kaso

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7211
    • WTA Hardline Antagonist (aka: Jerk)

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #31 on: August 25, 2012, 09:31:42 pm »
    1.4million households averaging $960k at 13% tax rate nets $174,720,000,000.

    1.4million households averaging $960k at 18% tax rate nets $241,920,000,000.

    So that 5% change in taxes to them pays off $67,200,000,000 worth of deficit.

    $67.2 billion.  It's not the whole shebang, but it ain't anything to sneeze at, either.

    Obviously, that's not taking into account tax shelters, and other sneakiness.
    Booksmart, either you still don't get what I said, or you are trolling.  I will give you the benefit of doubt, and say it again.  The total gross income of the top 1% of earners is 1.3 trillion.  The defecit that the federal government runs each year is 1.9 trillion. (or so)  Even if we were to take 100% of their income, there would still be a $600 billion/year defecit each year.

    But, to address what you said about the $67 billion:  A trillion is, of course, 1000 billions.  The federal budget is 1900 billions in the hole every year.  67 is but a drop in the bucket.

    Sorry, but your argument doesn't hold water.  Cuts are the only way to balance the books.  Deep cuts.



    Kaso

    Kaso

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7211
    • WTA Hardline Antagonist (aka: Jerk)

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #32 on: August 25, 2012, 09:35:36 pm »
    I've got a retired Russian GRU general to hunt down and kill in a snowmobile chase.
      :shocked That should be an interesting read.



    Kaso

    Kaso

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7211
    • WTA Hardline Antagonist (aka: Jerk)

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #33 on: August 25, 2012, 09:39:02 pm »

    why don't you simply require everyone work six months a year for the government, for $100k/year, live in a swanky penthouse appartment or mansion, drive a free, government supplied Beemer, drink free, government funded Evian, eat free, government funded tofu, wear the government funded Armani and worship the same dear leader.  .  .  .  .  OH, wait,  I've just described North Korea.     
    There you go.   That's the OWS dream world.  ::)



    Kaso
    « Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 09:49:16 pm by Kaso »

    Gunnguy

    • Husband, Father, US Air Force Veteran, Scouter, Hunter, Geek, Gamer, PITA (Pain in the A$$), and future comedy star.
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4517
    • You did what with what?

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #34 on: August 25, 2012, 09:55:58 pm »
    Try going to the HR of a company without that stupid $75,000 slab of sheepskin and see how they react to your resume.

    About the only people I know who are halfway interested in hiring someone whose education was "reading books" - I'm working for them.  Even REAL libraries want someone with a degree in Library Sciences.   :facepalm

    I wish real life COULD be like USA's Suits (un-barred legal genius works for a law firm) or any of a dozen cop shows where untrained, unqualified people become elite detectives.

    This isn't the 70's or early 80's where Gates and Jobs reinvented technology, or the Turn of the (20th) Century when John Moses Browning was developing modern firearms to a fine art.

    You may, at any time, pay for and take the BAR exam and pass it and be a licensed attorney. Sans Law degree.
    You also may take the AMA or equivilent board exams and become a physician/dentist/specialist. And practice medicine sans Medical Degree.
    You may also, at anytime, study and show yourself worthy of a job by out performing that same librarian with a degree.
    The odds are against you doing that on your own, but you have that opportunity.
    You may choose to take one or two classes at a time from a college and pay for everything in cash and not a student loan.
    You may earn your degree anyway you wish.
    I never said you shouldn't try to earn a degree.
    But where on Earth does it say you deserve to have my tax dollars pay for your education?
    When I want my son to go to college instead of you, why do you deserve that tax money instead of him?
    His GPA is 3.4 yours is 2.8, but you qualify before my son does because someone determined you have a left wristed limp instead of a right wristed limp? Therefore you qualify before my son does.
    Take that away and it is all based on merit. Hard work. And passing the classes.
    Take away the money and the colleges and states have to compete for students honestly.
    That will take down the costs.
    As far as the 70's and 80s' comment you are wrong.
    Many people discover and invent and succeed every day. Even without college degrees.
    Just never stop learning.

    Edit:
    One more important note.
    Who in the hell invented the 'Degree"?
    Who gave them the power and right to determine what a 'Degree' is and how it should be earned?
    I say it was self learned men and women who consolidated their learning and knowledge to help others to learn.

    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

    booksmart

    • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6670
    • E. Pluribus Unum.

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #35 on: August 25, 2012, 09:59:26 pm »
    I wish real life COULD be like USA's Suits (un-barred legal genius works for a law firm) or any of a dozen cop shows where untrained, unqualified people become elite detectives.

    The local PDs around here look favorably on at least a Bachelor's in Criminal Justice.

    The cost of the college degree has been rising - due in part to cutting the budget for them at the state level (I acknowledge it isn't the only thing contributing to costs rising - certain runaway administrative salaries certainly contribute, too).  They've gotta make up the shortfall somewhere, and tuition's it (along with fees once we get 'em through the door - captive audience and all that).

    And no, Kaso, I wasn't trolling or ignoring you. I agree that there need to be cuts. We even agree on where some of them should come from. Let me offer up some other suggestions, see what you think:

    1) End Congress and Senate "Pensions for Life" after they've lost re-election, or at least limit it to... five years? Same with the President.
    2) Let those same representatives get the same healthcare as the rest of us, as opposed to their own setup.
    3) Move SS back *out* of the general budget. We've been putting that money in for one purpose - and we should get it back when we need it.
    4) Cut spending to the military - we've covered that. Not gut, but cut.

    Whatcha think?

    P.S. I think if the only food available were gov't funded tofu I'd riot & revolt on general principle.

    Doug Wojtowicz

    • Clown prince
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 8543
    • Fly like the wind!

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #36 on: August 25, 2012, 10:09:41 pm »
    You also may take the AMA or equivilent board exams and become a physician/dentist/specialist. And practice medicine sans Medical Degree.

    This explains the statements made by a certain periodontist this week...   :facepalm

    I don't LIKE the need for a Degree like this, and busting my butt, my resume has produced nothing but yawns in a search for a day job.  And, I look at the results of people being underemployed, having gotten college degrees... and ending up having trouble getting a job dropping fries at McDonalds, let alone wrangling a job interview. 

    Hence, I gotta hustle in the paperback field.  I'm currently operating on enough caffine that I can probably turn my folding chair into a hoverbike...
    IllinoisAfter a shooting spree, they want to take the guns away from everyone who didn't do it.

    -William Burroughs

    SJW is not a synonym of "leftists" or "liberals". Left-wing and right-wing positions are based on economics. SJWs are left-authoritarians which means that they are not liberals. Don't paint all leftists or liberals with the same (misguided) brush.

    Kaso

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7211
    • WTA Hardline Antagonist (aka: Jerk)

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #37 on: August 25, 2012, 10:21:30 pm »
    1) End Congress and Senate "Pensions for Life" after they've lost re-election, or at least limit it to... five years? Same with the President.
    2) Let those same representatives get the same healthcare as the rest of us, as opposed to their own setup.
    3) Move SS back *out* of the general budget. We've been putting that money in for one purpose - and we should get it back when we need it.
    4) Cut spending to the military - we've covered that. Not gut, but cut.
    I imagine you are asking me?  Actually, I would go further.

    1. Elected federal officials get no salary for serving, but they do get perks: Healthcare, reasonable travel expenses, etc.
    2. No, as per #1.
    3. Social security should work (if we keep it at all) as a savings account - what you put in, is what you can take out.  If the seniors are destitute, they can be given a small monthly stipend to allow them to survive.
    4. My plan would be closer to 'gut.'  After the AStan expenses are ended, the budget needs at least a 20% reduction.  Spread it equally among the services, and allow each branch to decide how to administer the cuts.  SF would also have their budgets removed from the general funds, and would get funded seperately, at a higher rate.



    Kaso

    Nightcrawler

    • WTA Secretary of Defense
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6280
    • That's what SHE said!

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #38 on: August 25, 2012, 11:27:05 pm »
    Everyone should pay taxes.  No exceptions.  Your first $10,000 can be free.  After that, you give Uncle Sugar a cut.  Taxes are not taken out of your paycheck.  You file quarterly, semi-annually, or annually, just like small business owners and the self-employed have to.  You see how much you pay in taxes each time you write that check.

    There is only one federal tax.  All federal taxes go into the same general fund.  There are no special taxes for special purposes.  There are no punitive taxes or tax breaks.  No loopholes.  No write-offs.  No deductions.  No earned or unearned income credits.  No refunds.  The tax rate is easy to understand.  You make $50,000 a year, you multiply that by zero-point-whatever and then you write a check to the IRS.

    The sole reason for taxation is to generate revenue.  Congress should not be authorized to tax anything to encourage or discourage behavior, to punish or reward.  Congress isn't authorized to pick winners and losers.

    I guarantee that if every American saw what he or she had to pay, and every American had to pay, then everyone would care about taxes.  Everyone would demand that the government spend their money wisely.  Everyone would have skin in the game.

    You want to talk about fair?  Right now, in our current system, people who don't pay anything in federal taxes can vote to increase taxes on others, taxes they don't have to pay in the first place, to pay for benefits they receive that the people paying for them don't.

    Almost half contribute zero to the federal tax coffers.  That same half receives the vast majority of federal entitlements.

    Vote to screw the other guy.  To hell with that rich bastard!  He makes too much money!  He should be punished!  He obviously uses more national defense than I do!

    It's an entire ideology based on the most base of human impulses, envy.

    The federal government can't make life fair.  The federal government's job isn't to be Robin Hood and solve income disparity between CEOs and workers.  If you don't get paid much, it's because a lot of people can do your job, and/or are willing to do it for as much or less than you.  If the CEO gets paid too much, it's because that's what the shareholders decided to pay him.  It's as simple as that.  Being pissed off at some stereotypical concept of a capitalist plutocrat CEO isn't going to fix anyone's problems for them.  Be mad at your competitor who's willing to do your same job for fifteen percent less.

    There aren't enough rich people to pay for all the things we've promised to people.  There just aren't enough.  There will never be enough. The whole argument is a class warfare red herring, appealing to envy, to rile the proles up to vote for Robin Hood.

    "That rich SOB isn't paying his fair share!  He has so much more than you!  Don't we all just hate him!  Vote for us, or he will continue screwing you, and his cronies will take away all the benefits we give you!"

    Someone mentioned the department of education?  Let me tell my college story.

    I enrolled in a University years ago, studying political science.  Because of my remaining parent's low income, I was offered a lot in federal financial aid.  They push financial aid on you.  Tuition goes up?  No worries, just take out more loans!  I was given and lent a great deal of money.  I was not required to maintain particularly good grades.  I was not required to study something that offered a decent chance of netting me a job that would allow me to pay the loans back.  I was not required to take up any specific area of study; I could take "general education" just as easily as physics.  I was not required to maintain a rigorous class schedule.  Nothing was required of me, as a matter of fact, other than I stay enrolled and passed most of the classes that I did take (and I'm not even sure about the second one).

    After three years, I got sick of it and dropped out.  I never went back.  I had to repay my student loans, but I was not required to give any of the other money back.  Money that, aside from my GI Bill, I did fluff-all to actually earn.  I can go back to college whenever I want, and will be offered student loans and grants again, depending only on my income level.  Again, I'll be able to study whatever I want, do whatever class schedule I want, and quit college without any consequences.

    Thanks for the tax dollars, America.

    Our entire education system is outdated and broken.  We have millions of college graduates working jobs people with an 8th grade education could do.  Students enroll, and are told by their educators to study whatever they want, any field they want.  They're told to just stay in school.  Their tuition is raised and raised, and they're told to just take out more loans. They're told that once they graduate, they'll be able to do well, pay back the loans, and it'll all be good.  Just get that degree!  Then they actually graduate and find they're one of a hundred people with the same education level applying for the same job.

    The answer is not sending more Americans to college on the taxpayer dime, adding another bunch of applicants to that job line.  If everyone has a degree, the degree is meaningless.  If you're going to do that, you might as well just save everyone the hassle and pass a law saying that every American already has a college degree.  It'd be cheaper and would be just as effective as the Department of Education.

    Not everyone needs a four year degree.  If you want to be an IT guy or an engineer, why are you forced to take music and English classes?

    They tell you it's because you need to be well rounded.  In reality, you'll forget the classes that don't apply to what you do for a living.  They make you take the rest to justify their salaries and milk more money out of the students.  It's a scam, and the fraction of Americans that actually pay taxes ultimately foots the bill.

    Social Security is going to fail, regardless of what's done with it.  Social Security will fail faster if Social Security taxes are its only source of funding.  When SS was passed, most Americans were lucky to make it to the age of eligibility, they were expected to not work at that age anyway, they didn't live too long past the age of eligibility, and for every person collecting there were many more paying into it.

    Now our population has stabilized.  There aren't enough workers and there are too many recipients.  Mathematically it can't work without a constantly growing population, and our population, save for immigration, has all but leveled off.  I will never see a dime of my Social Security money.  If I could opt out of it, I would.  If I could sign a waiver saying that if I don't make my own retirement plans, they'll let me die penniless in a ditch when I'm old, I'd sign that contract.

    I suspect millions of others would too.  Which is why Social Security has to be mandatory.  For your own good, of course.  It's more fair that way, that I have to pay taxes on a benefit that I will never receive.  We're all about fairness after all.

    The defense budget could be significantly cut without hurting actual capabilities, if done smartly.  Last I checked, the DOD had more full-time GS-series civilians than there are personnel in the Air Force.  I submit that fully half of them could be removed, and six months later no-one would remember what they did.  Force end strength could be reduced with a reduction in our military commitments.  Europe, specifically, can go pound sand.  I hate to sound like a Ron Paul Robot, but NATO isn't doing anything for us, and we've propped up the defense of Europe for long enough.  I would close every base in every European Union member country as rapidly as is feasible.  The new axis of the world is the Pacific, and that's where the biggest potential for a major conflict lies.

    This also means no more peace keeping.  No more nation building.  No more of it.  No more b____ing about Iraq then crying to go into Darfur.  The military is no longer globo-robo-cop, expected to go fight and die every time some third world s___hole gets a little worse.  (If there's one thing I can't stand, it's an idiot who accuses American servicemen of eating babies in Afghanistan then crying that we need to invade Africa after watching a five-minute YouTube video about Kony.)

    You could take a team of auditors and go through the DOD budget like a cleaver.  A LOT of fat could be removed without hurting critical modernization and capability requirements.  However, military strength has to be doctrine based.  Nightcrawler Doctrine includes letting Europe fend for itself, and I like the idea of pouring every dime we spend on military stabilization of the middle east into developing domestic energy resources.  (There would be significant strategic risks to turning our back on the middle east, however.  Up do an including a nuclear exchange involving Israel and/or the sudden loss of the roughly 1/3rd of our oil we get from Saudi Arabia.  This decision could not be made lightly.)

    However, that is not how it is going to be done.  The massive civilian bureaucracy will remain intact, and military end strength will be reduced.  Budgets for training and modernization will be hit very hard.  The military will get gutted, and we will be sitting on top of a hollow force like we were in the aftermath of almost every single war we've fought.  It happens every time.  Then, the next time we find ourselves in a war (and there will always be a next time), we will have to scramble to regain capabilities and knowledge that was lost.  We do it every time.
    ArizonaMOLON LABE

    Retired Bomb Guy
    Semi-Pro Hack Writer

    booksmart

    • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6670
    • E. Pluribus Unum.

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #39 on: August 25, 2012, 11:31:02 pm »
    No, they deserve to get paid for the work they're doing (perhaps not as much as they're being paid).

    SS worked as it was originally designed, and should be returned to that.  There's nothing wrong with helping out your neighbor, yeah?

    Doug Wojtowicz

    • Clown prince
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 8543
    • Fly like the wind!

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #40 on: August 25, 2012, 11:37:15 pm »
    ...

    MIKE for President... if he wants it.

    If not :hide

    edit I swear one day I'll be able to tell the difference between Nightcrawler and Mr. Correia.   :facepalm

    And on that day, I hope to own a pony.
    « Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 11:50:48 pm by Doug Wojtowicz »
    IllinoisAfter a shooting spree, they want to take the guns away from everyone who didn't do it.

    -William Burroughs

    SJW is not a synonym of "leftists" or "liberals". Left-wing and right-wing positions are based on economics. SJWs are left-authoritarians which means that they are not liberals. Don't paint all leftists or liberals with the same (misguided) brush.

    luke213(adamsholsters)

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 3578
      • Adams Holsters

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #41 on: August 25, 2012, 11:39:47 pm »
    I wanted to just throw in a quick note about the requirement of degree's in modern society for jobs. I personally don't have a degree, I do have some debt from some college I took a few years ago when I realized college certainly isn't for me. I've worked as a computer technician, network administrator, computer salesman, electronic salesman, construction worker, mink farmer, office supply salesperson, Medical billing, and probably a few other jobs I've forgotten about over the last 16+ years that I've been working. Some of those happened when I was young since I started working at 14, some as recently as 3-4 years ago when we started travelling and right before I started making holsters. All of that said I did all of those jobs without a degree, and I made a living. It wasn't the best living but I certainly handled keeping food on the table and a roof over our heads. My wife got her degree as a nurse which she has worked as for several years though now she's working with me helping in the shop and not using her degree at all.

    My point in all of this is that there are opportunities out there, you have to be willing to look for the right niche sometimes and it may not be a job that pays big dollars and will make you rich. However it's very possible to be a lowly high school graduate who can start your own business and make a fairly good living. For that matter I can think of several ways if money were more important to me personally that I could drive more profits or do something else with my life that would pay more money. However I make a decent living and I really enjoy what I'm doing. I think if I didn't I would probably look at something else to do with my time. That said though a degree is what you make of it, having one doesn't guarantee you a job any more than not having one guarantee's you won't get that same job. It is what you make of it, and if your not able to make a living at your chosen career then maybe it's time to do something else with your time. I've done allot of jobs I didn't enjoy, but I sure made a living while doing them and really that's the opportunity that we all have equally.

    Luke
    MichiganI am the owner/proprietor of www.adamsholsters.com Custom holsters made for you. To contact me please use E-mail rather than Private Messages, [email protected]

    Kaso

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7211
    • WTA Hardline Antagonist (aka: Jerk)

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #42 on: August 25, 2012, 11:49:09 pm »
    SS worked as it was originally designed, and should be returned to that.  There's nothing wrong with helping out your neighbor, yeah?
    Social security is and was a pyramid scam.  As long as there are an exponentialy larger number of people entering, the guys at the payout level can keep cashing in. 

    When SS was created, as NC mentioned, most people dies before reaching the payout age.  There were 14-16 (I forget) workers per retiree.  So, the taxes were low, and the payout was high.  Now there are what, three? four? workers per retiree?  The system is unsustainable, and there is no 'saving' it without either drastic tax increases or drastic benefit cuts.  Sorry, but that's life.



    Kaso

    Doug Wojtowicz

    • Clown prince
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 8543
    • Fly like the wind!

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #43 on: August 25, 2012, 11:49:39 pm »
    Side note:  Jobs I've completed without getting a degree in Pulp Fiction:

    Executioner
    291. Blood Trade (2003) (as by Don Pendleton)
    307. Hard Pursuit (2004) (as by Don Pendleton)
    315. Agent of Peril (2005) (as by Don Pendleton)
    321. Suicide Highway (2005) (as by Don Pendleton)
    325. Edge Of Hell (2005) (as by Don Pendleton)
    327. Serpent's Lair (2006) (as by Don Pendleton)
    333. Aftershock (2006) (as by Don Pendleton)
    342. Double Play (2007) (as by Don Pendleton)
    355. Outback Assault (2008) (as by Don Pendleton)
    362. Patriot Acts (2009) (as by Don Pendleton)

    Mack Bolan
    103. Season of Slaughter (2005) (as by Don Pendleton)
    113. Contagion Option (2007) (as by Don Pendleton)
    117. Devil's Playground (2007) (as by Don Pendleton)
    123. Plains of Fire (2008) (as by Don Pendleton)
    127. Cold War Reprise (2009) (as by Don Pendleton)
    136. Desert Fallout (2010) (as by Don Pendleton)
    144. Grave Mercy (2011) (as by Don Pendleton)

    Stony Man
    83. Doom Prophecy (2006) (as by Don Pendleton)
    87. Extreme Arsenal (2007) (as by Don Pendleton)
    93. Deadly Payload (2008) (as by Don Pendleton)
    97. Splintered Sky (2008) (as by Don Pendleton)
    104. Extinction Crisis (2009) (as by Don Pendleton)
    112. Orbital Velocity (2011) (as by Don Pendleton)
    115. Extermination (2011) (as by Don Pendleton)
     
    Outlanders
    46. Pantheon of Vengeance (2008) (as by James Axler)
    48. Serpent's Tooth (2009) (as by James Axler)
    52. Reality Echo (2010) (as by James Axler)
    56. Cradle of Destiny (2011) (as by James Axler)
    59. Infestation Cubed (2011) (as by James Axler)

    Not counting comic books or short stories, and missing only one from the current shelves.

    College was, for me, like Mike described.  Lazing off of classes.  Giving two poops about Theodore Dresden's Sister Carrie.  Failing miserably at philosophy equations that were so far beyond the arcane, they made Chinese Trigonometry make sense (if only because I actually KNOW Trigonometry).
    IllinoisAfter a shooting spree, they want to take the guns away from everyone who didn't do it.

    -William Burroughs

    SJW is not a synonym of "leftists" or "liberals". Left-wing and right-wing positions are based on economics. SJWs are left-authoritarians which means that they are not liberals. Don't paint all leftists or liberals with the same (misguided) brush.

    Avenger29

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4115
    • It's party time, chumps!

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #44 on: August 25, 2012, 11:50:37 pm »
    Quote
    SS worked as it was originally designed, and should be returned to that

    Yep, works fluffing AWESOME as a Ponzi scheme. Just like it was designed. It should be completely, 100% ELIMINATED. I can save for my own retirement, thankyouverymuch.

    As far as college goes, a fat lot of degrees are utterly useless paper. Especially most liberal arts degrees. You can try telling yourself and everybody around you that they aren't, but you're wrong. And I'm saying that as someone with a history degree. Hows about instead of a liberal arts degree prospective students learn an actually useful trade...and a fluffing work ethic...


    Want to know who the REAL 1% is? There's a bunch of them in Washington, busy as bees, busy betraying the Constitution, selling out the Republic, and dooming the People. There's your answer. It ain't the "rich" as OWS alleges.



    South Carolina
    I don't THINK I'll ever have to face down routers in the streets.

    I should hope not. Mobs of rogue woodworking tools would suck to repel.

    Doug Wojtowicz

    • Clown prince
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 8543
    • Fly like the wind!

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #45 on: August 25, 2012, 11:53:36 pm »
    Want to know who the REAL 1% is? There's a bunch of them in Washington, busy as bees, busy betraying the Constitution, selling out the Republic, and dooming the People. There's your answer. It ain't the "rich" as OWS alleges.

    Oh, those bums are plenty rich.  Show me a poor Democratic politician.  They're as Communist/Marxist as the Teamsters Union.

    Hoffa was a THIEF.  Not a Robin Hood.
    IllinoisAfter a shooting spree, they want to take the guns away from everyone who didn't do it.

    -William Burroughs

    SJW is not a synonym of "leftists" or "liberals". Left-wing and right-wing positions are based on economics. SJWs are left-authoritarians which means that they are not liberals. Don't paint all leftists or liberals with the same (misguided) brush.

    Kaso

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7211
    • WTA Hardline Antagonist (aka: Jerk)

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #46 on: August 25, 2012, 11:56:39 pm »
    +1 to the entire posts of both Avenger29 and Nightcrawler.



    Kaso

    Nightcrawler

    • WTA Secretary of Defense
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6280
    • That's what SHE said!

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #47 on: August 26, 2012, 12:12:40 am »
    No, they deserve to get paid for the work they're doing (perhaps not as much as they're being paid).

    SS worked as it was originally designed, and should be returned to that.  There's nothing wrong with helping out your neighbor, yeah?

    You can think people deserve whatever.  I only take issue when you think the federal government has some role in determining who deserves what.  But if you're really into that, by all means. Give every scummy, lying, cheating, stupid, wrong-headed, crony-rewarding politician with whom you disagree on everything that much more power over your life.  Let them decide what's fair for you and what's not.  I'm sure that will work out well.

    Remember, every power you give the government, it will use.  It will still have it, and still use it, when the people you like leave office and the people you hate take over.  Any power you give to party A, you also give to party B.  Any power you give them you never get back.

    Helping your neighbor?

    How about the government decides that your house is too big and tells you you have to let a poor person live there with you.  If you don't, you go to jail.  Nothing wrong with helping your neighbor, right?  What are you going to say, you don't care about the poor?  How callous.

    How about your own tax rate be doubled?  (Don't worry, we'll triple it for the rich.  We'll still get those plutocrats!)  Would that be a burden on you?  Don't you care about helping the poor?

    There's no end to this.  The more they spend, the more they want.  The more their social engineering programs don't work, the more programs they want to create.  Every time a program fails they throw more taxpayer dollars at it.  Every program that someone threatens to cut, someone depends on. 

    Don't like a huge military budget?  Okay, cut it.  Then you're going to put millions of Americans, who make their living in the civilian side of the defense sector, out of work.  Does this mean we should keep increasing the military budget indefinitely?

    We can't keep guilting ourselves into perpetually increasing federal budgets.  When the entire federal system collapses for want of cash, and our money is hardly worth the paper it's printed on, EVERYONE is going to suffer.  We can either make the hard choices now or let it all burn to the ground later.

    Entitlements aren't charity.  They're, at best, well-intentioned idealism of varying success.  At worst, they're vote-buying schemes designed to make sure people vote the right way forever.  You, voting for a politician, who then votes for a law, that takes money from one citizen and gives it to another, isn't charity.  It's policy.  It may be good or bad, but don't kid yourself into pretending you're doing anyone some kind of favor by dutifully paying your social security taxes.  If you want to help your neighbor, go out and help someone.  Pay a medical bill for someone who doesn't have insurance.  Give some food to the needy.  Watch someone's kids while they work. 

    That's charity.  That's you putting in your own time and own effort, making some semblance of sacrifice.  You telling another citizen he needs to pay more to pay for policies he may or may not agree with isn't charity.  I guarantee you there's someone out there with a lot less than you that feels like he's gotten a raw deal, and would have no compunction voting for a law that took from you and gave to him.  In his eyes, you're the "one-percenter" who isn't "paying his fair share".  Envy knows no bounds and has no minimum income requirement.

    I'm not opposed to some kind of safety net.  Unemployment, emergency food aid, things like that.  These things should be administered and funded on as local a level as possible.  The Federal Government should only be marginally involved, if at all.  Everyone should pay the taxes that fund these benefits, so everyone then pressures lawmakers to ensure the programs are run responsibly and the money is well spent.

    But social security is unsustainable.  It needs to go.  The people who've been paying into it their entire lives, and who are dependent on it, shouldn't have it taken away.  But it's just not going to work going forward and needs to be phased out.  The program was a ponzi scheme derived in the 1930s, and the world changed.  It doesn't work anymore.   Not when people start receiving it in their sixties and live into their nineties.  Not when the ratio of workers to recipients is so small.
    ArizonaMOLON LABE

    Retired Bomb Guy
    Semi-Pro Hack Writer

    booksmart

    • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6670
    • E. Pluribus Unum.

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #48 on: August 26, 2012, 12:44:07 am »
    When SS was created, the Baby Boom hadn't occurred yet.  Hard to predict that'd happen, except for the financial boom that occurred at the same time.  :coffee

    Oh, those bums are plenty rich.  Show me a poor Democratic politician.

    FTFY, Doug.  :coffee

    Feud

    • Teller of bad jokes.
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4986

    • Offline
    Re: So, who IS the 1%?
    « Reply #49 on: August 26, 2012, 01:41:46 am »
    You may, at any time, pay for and take the BAR exam and pass it and be a licensed attorney. Sans Law degree.

    This isn't entirely accurate.  Some states allow for such, but many require a law degree to apply for the BAR exam.

    http://www.ncbex.org/assets/media_files/Comp-Guide/CompGuide.pdf
    (page 8)
    « Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 01:54:01 am by Feud »

    Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.