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Author Topic: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program  (Read 3995 times)

RevDisk

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Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
« on: December 09, 2014, 02:37:56 pm »
The Senate released a summary of the 6,000 page investigation of the CIA and its 'enhanced interrogation' program.

Key points:
- The CIA was lying the entire time to the public. Hardly surprising, that.
- The CIA was lying to Congress.
- The CIA may have been lying to the White House.
- The CIA officials surreptitiously accessed investigation committee work product and email on a firewalled shared network. Ie, they snooped on Congress.
- Yes, they tortured folks rather than interrogated them.
- No, life-saving intelligence wasn't gathered through torture

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf
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    JesseL

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #1 on: December 09, 2014, 02:48:16 pm »
    So this means hefty fines and prison time for the CIA personnel involved, right?







    :rotfl
    Arizona

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #2 on: December 09, 2014, 02:51:37 pm »
    I doubt it.

    The NSA was caught red-handed lying to Congress too.  Nothing happened to anyone.  But, the fact that this report got released at all tells me the CIA won't have the top cover that, say, the NSA and the IRS have had in their respective scandals.
    ArizonaMOLON LABE

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    Chief45

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #3 on: December 09, 2014, 04:48:36 pm »
    Distraction technique. 

    Especially since the time frame in question was during the Bush Administration, immediately after 9-11.

    See ?

    He can STILL BLAME BUSH and use that to distract from his own lies. 
     :neener

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    coyotesfan97

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #4 on: December 09, 2014, 08:17:29 pm »
    What a coincidence they released this report the same day Jonathon Gruber testified before the House.
    ArizonaThe bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.  Thucydides 471BC

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    Grant

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #5 on: December 09, 2014, 08:51:35 pm »
    What a coincidence they released this report the same day Jonathon Gruber testified before the House.

    Ditto......

    I am getting sick of ALL this crap.


    Every person in the US moving farther apart every day and less willing to take the other's crap.
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    wyatt

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #6 on: December 09, 2014, 09:08:27 pm »
    What a coincidence they released this report the same day Jonathon Gruber testified before the House.

    Exactly. I'm surprised Obama didn't bomb an aspirin factory in the Sudan - except that's already been done. This is nothing more than distraction. Feinstein is what? 81 years old? It's not like she'll have to face reelection. This will not come without a body count. I'm sure that won't bother Feistein's bank account or her conscience at all.

    Penguin

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #7 on: December 09, 2014, 10:04:05 pm »
    So as I have been hearing various reports on this a thought crossed my mind, one that has crossed my mind many times before. So if we live in a country where the government can and does arrest people and they don't have to charge them, or give them a day in court and, we torture them on top of it do we live in a free country? I mean if you can just lock some one up and throw away the key what rights do you have? I would argue none.

    As well there are many other things I could get up on my soap box about but this is a fairly basic thing. If you don't get a fair day in court, what rights do you have? Everything else is subject to the whims of those who are in power and evil.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #8 on: December 09, 2014, 10:23:43 pm »
    Exactly. I'm surprised Obama didn't bomb an aspirin factory in the Sudan - except that's already been done. This is nothing more than distraction. Feinstein is what? 81 years old? It's not like she'll have to face reelection. This will not come without a body count. I'm sure that won't bother Feistein's bank account or her conscience at all.
    She already said as much in an interview with Wolf Blitzer today.   She said she ".  .  . would feel bad about it, but .  .  . "  Blah, Blah, Blah and words to the effect that it was a matter of conscience and how "we" would be judged by "history" and it had to be done.  :scrutiny
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    Kaso

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #9 on: December 09, 2014, 10:28:32 pm »
    I wonder how many of the unknown number of US citizens in Islamist captivity would agree with her convictions...  :facepalm



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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #10 on: December 09, 2014, 10:49:34 pm »
    So as I have been hearing various reports on this a thought crossed my mind, one that has crossed my mind many times before. So if we live in a country where the government can and does arrest people and they don't have to charge them, or give them a day in court and, we torture them on top of it do we live in a free country? I mean if you can just lock some one up and throw away the key what rights do you have? I would argue none.

    As well there are many other things I could get up on my soap box about but this is a fairly basic thing. If you don't get a fair day in court, what rights do you have? Everything else is subject to the whims of those who are in power and evil.
    As I understand it, the people involved in the "Rendition" program were enemy combatants captured on the field of battle.  A non citizen captured under such circumstances is not entitled to the same civil and criminal court proceedings afforded a citizen of the U.S. in a domestic matter.   I believe military tribunals are the prescribed venue for such matters. 

    As to the subject of "torture", there seems to be no clear consensus on what it involves in all cases.   It seems certain, however, that the victims of terrorist attacks like the World Trade Center incidents, the attacks on U.S. citizens at various times and places over the  years from military and diplomatic installations to similar attacks on random civilians all experienced terror and perhaps "torture" even unto death.   If you are willing to plumb the depths of callousness, depravity and outright evil in your dealings with other people you should, in all likelihood, expect the same attention to detail in their response to you and yours. 

    I do not wish to campaign for the idea that the end justifies the means but if you find yourself locked in a death struggle the need to prevail seems self-evident.  If those who initiated that struggle against you will not relent, then they themselves have set the terms of the engagement and no quarter should be given until the threat is gone.
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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #11 on: December 09, 2014, 11:15:50 pm »
    So a spy agency did spy-like things. This hardly seems to be news. I would make the assumption everyone and anyone from the CIA is lying most of the time.
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    Mikee5star

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #12 on: December 10, 2014, 01:02:34 am »
    - The CIA was lying the entire time to the public. Hardly surprising, that.
    - The CIA was lying to Congress.
    - The CIA may have been lying to the White House.
    - The CIA officials surreptitiously accessed investigation committee work product and email on a firewalled shared network. Ie, they snooped on Congress.
    From Revdisk

    I am surprised by none of this.  If they weren't lying to all mentioned on this list under most administrations and congressional leadership, I would be shocked. 

    Not shocked that they tortured, also not surprised that the info gotten by torture was poor quality.  All people talk, or die, if the torture is done right.  Does not mean you get good info, they just say what you want to hear to make the torture stop.
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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #13 on: December 10, 2014, 05:28:53 am »
    Not shocked that they tortured, also not surprised that the info gotten by torture was poor quality.  All people talk, or die, if the torture is done right.  Does not mean you get good info, they just say what you want to hear to make the torture stop.

    McCain alluded to this---and if any one in Congress has experience to speak, it is him--BTDT, got the T shirt. If somebody has electrodes hooked to me, eventually they will get everything--military plans, Batman's identity, the formula to Coke---just to make it stop.
    Over on  the Bayou Renaissance Man blog, he brought up the morality issue--how can we (as a nation who have tried to hold the high ground) reconcile stooping to the same tactics as the enemy?
    Now that this is "officially" out there, don't be shocked that future American POWs will return with even more horrific stories of their captivity.
    GeorgiaFrom The Codex Kalachnikova: "He who would have you surrender your arms does so because he wishes to do something you could prevent by their usage."

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #14 on: December 10, 2014, 02:43:33 pm »
    This didn't take long:


    UN officials demand prosecutions for US torture

    By JOHN HEILPRIN

    From Associated Press
    December 10, 2014 1:33 PM EST

    GENEVA (AP) — All senior U.S. officials and CIA agents who authorized or carried out torture like waterboarding as part of former President George W. Bush's national security policy must be prosecuted, top U.N. officials said Wednesday.

    It's not clear, however, how human rights officials think these prosecutions will take place, since the Justice Department has declined to prosecute and the U.S. is not a member of the International Criminal Court.

    Zeid Raad al-Hussein, the U.N. high commissioner for human rights, said it's "crystal clear" under international law that the United States, which ratified the U.N. Convention Against Torture in 1994, now has an obligation to ensure accountability.
     


     
    "In all countries, if someone commits murder, they are prosecuted and jailed. If they commit rape or armed robbery, they are prosecuted and jailed. If they order, enable or commit torture — recognized as a serious international crime — they cannot simply be granted impunity because of political expediency," he said.

    U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon hopes the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee report on the CIA's harsh interrogation techniques at secret overseas facilities is the "start of a process" toward prosecutions, because the "prohibition against torture is absolute," Ban's spokesman said.

    Ben Emmerson, the U.N.'s special rapporteur on counterterrorism and human rights, said the report released Tuesday shows "there was a clear policy orchestrated at a high level within the Bush administration, which allowed (it) to commit systematic crimes and gross violations of international human rights law."

    He said international law prohibits granting immunity to public officials who allow the use of torture, and this applies not just to the actual perpetrators but also to those who plan and authorize torture.

    "The fact that the policies revealed in this report were authorized at a high level within the U.S. government provides no excuse whatsoever. Indeed, it reinforces the need for criminal accountability," Emmerson said.

    Human Rights Watch executive director Kenneth Roth echoed those comments, saying "unless this important truth-telling process leads to the prosecution of officials, torture will remain a 'policy option' for future presidents."

    The report said that in addition to waterboarding, the U.S. tactics included slamming detainees against walls, confining them to small boxes, keeping them isolated for prolonged periods and threatening them with death.

    However, a Justice Department official said Wednesday the department did not intend to revisit its decision to not prosecute anyone for the interrogation methods. The official said the department had reviewed the committee's report and did not find any new information that would cause the investigation to be reopened.

    "Our inquiry was limited to a determination of whether prosecutable offenses were committed," the official said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss an investigation. "Importantly, our investigation was not intended to answer the broader questions regarding the propriety of the examined conduct."

    The United States is also not part of the International Criminal Court, which began operating in 2002 to ensure that those responsible for the most heinous crimes could be brought to justice. That court steps in only when countries are unwilling or unable to dispense justice themselves for genocide, crimes against humanity or war crimes. The case could be referred to the ICC by the U.N. Security Council, but the United States holds veto power there.

    In one U.S. case mentioned in the report, suspected extremist Gul Rahman was interrogated in late 2002 at a CIA detention facility in Afghanistan called "COBALT" in the report. There, he was shackled to a wall in his cell and forced to rest on a bare concrete floor in only a sweatshirt. He died the next day. A CIA review and autopsy found he died of hypothermia.

    Justice Department investigations into his death and another death of a CIA detainee resulted in no charges.

    President Barack Obama said the interrogation techniques "did significant damage to America's standing in the world and made it harder to pursue our interests with allies." CIA Director John Brennan said the agency made mistakes and learned from them, but insisted the coercive techniques produced intelligence "that helped thwart attack plans, capture terrorists and save lives."

    The Senate investigation, however, found no evidence the interrogations stopped imminent plots.

    European Union spokeswoman Catherine Ray emphasized Wednesday that the Obama administration has worked since 2009 to see that torture is not used anymore but said it is "a commitment that should be enshrined in law."

    German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier was quoted as telling the Bild daily that Obama had clearly broken with Bush policies and, as a result, Washington's "new openness to admitting mistakes and promising publicly that something like this will never happen again is an important step, which we welcome."

    "What was deemed right and done back then in the fight against Islamic terrorism was unacceptable and a serious mistake," Steinmeier said. "Such a crass violation of free and democratic values must not be repeated."

    Bush approved the program through a covert finding in 2002 but wasn't briefed by the CIA on the details until 2006. Obama banned waterboarding, weeks of sleep deprivation and other tactics, yet other aspects of Bush's national security policies remain, most notably the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and sweeping government surveillance programs.

    U.S. officials have been tried in absentia overseas before.

    Earlier this year, Italy's highest court upheld guilty verdicts against the CIA's former Rome station chief Jeff Castelli and two others identified as CIA agents in the 2003 extraordinary rendition kidnapping of an Egyptian terror suspect. The decision was the only prosecution to date against the Bush administration's practice of abducting terror suspects and moving them to third countries that permitted torture.
     



    All three had been acquitted in the original trial due to diplomatic immunity. They were among 26 Americans, mostly CIA agents, found guilty in absentia of kidnapping Milan cleric Osama Moustafa Hassan Nasr from a Milan street on Feb. 17, 2003.

    In Geneva last month, a U.N. anti-torture panel said the U.S. government is falling short of full compliance with the international anti-torture treaty. It criticized U.S. interrogation procedures during the Bush administration and called on the U.S. government to abolish the use of techniques that rely on sleep or sensory deprivation.

    The word "torture," meanwhile, wasn't mentioned in U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power's statement Wednesday for Human Rights Day in which she criticized countries including North Korea and South Sudan.
    GeorgiaFrom The Codex Kalachnikova: "He who would have you surrender your arms does so because he wishes to do something you could prevent by their usage."

    TommyGunn

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #15 on: December 10, 2014, 07:37:37 pm »
     :facepalm  We really need to kick out that Commie-begat United Nations....what a bunch of jackwagons ..... >:( :banghead
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    Nightcrawler

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #16 on: December 14, 2014, 05:15:46 pm »
    http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/12/14/ex-cia-official-jose-rodriguez-nancy-pelosi-democrats-fully-aware-cias-enhanced

    Quote
    As for the report's conclusion that the CIA misled Congress, Rodriguez said that he very clearly remembers briefing Nancy Pelosi in September 2002.

    "We briefed her specifically on the enhanced interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah, so she knew back in September 2002 every one of our enhanced interrogation techniques," Rodriguez said, noting that included waterboarding, sleep deprivation and more.

    "These people were fully aware of all of the techniques that were given to us and approved by the Office of Legal Counsel at the Justice [Department]," Rodriguez stated.

    He said that Pelosi never objected to the techniques "at all," and the only person who ever objected was Jane Harman in 2003.

    ********

    The fact that this report was produced by a bunch of Democrat Senate staffers is telling.

    Now, it's possible that Mr. Rodriguez is lying, and Ms. Pelosi is telling the gospel truth, but I wouldn't be willing to bet on that old political hack suddenly getting an attack of honesty.

    I think the most likely case is that everyone is full of crap, finger pointing, and trying to cover their own tracks.
    ArizonaMOLON LABE

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    TommyGunn

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #17 on: December 14, 2014, 08:13:15 pm »
    http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/12/14/ex-cia-official-jose-rodriguez-nancy-pelosi-democrats-fully-aware-cias-enhanced

    ********

    The fact that this report was produced by a bunch of Democrat Senate staffers is telling.

    Now, it's possible that Mr. Rodriguez is lying, and Ms. Pelosi is telling the gospel truth, but I wouldn't be willing to bet on that old political hack suddenly getting an attack of honesty.

    I think the most likely case is that everyone is full of crap, finger pointing, and trying to cover their own tracks.

    Yea .... it's getting increasingly difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, the liars from the honest.
    One talking head informs us that we prosecuted the Japanese for waterboarding, and supposedly some sheriff in the American south west was prosecuted for it.....then OTOH we're told THAT was different because the Japanese did it with the victim reclining but with the head raised, thus deliberatly TRYING to drown the person, while we do it with the feet raised to keep water out of the chest and with doctors present so it's NOT torture, er, uh, "enhanced interrogation techniques." :scrutiny :shrug
    Overall it does seem the last gasp of demorat power in the Senate. 
    Feinstein is going down like the Titanic, causing a raucus.   "Speaking of waterboarding..." :nervous :eh


     :facepalm
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    scarville

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    Re: Senate released a summary of the CIA torture program
    « Reply #18 on: December 15, 2014, 07:31:54 pm »
    This has come up in a few places I visit regularly and the following link was posted in one venue.  It is excerpted from an English translation of the Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.  It is interesting in that it describes Soviet "methods which break the will and the character of the prisoner without leaving marks on his body".  It is something to keep i mind when trying to define what is and is not "torture".

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9236.htm
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