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Author Topic: Question for LEO's...  (Read 6025 times)

GaBoy45

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Question for LEO's...
« on: August 11, 2012, 09:39:25 pm »
Random question but what is the legality of a civilian owning a bullet proof vest and/or ballistic plates?
“It takes very little to govern good people. Very little. And bad people cant be governed at all. Or if they could I never heard of it.”
― Cormac McCarthy, No Country for Old Men

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    onesmack4u

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #1 on: August 11, 2012, 09:57:40 pm »
    You must be a non-felon, otherwise look at state laws. Armor may be illegal in some states.
    AlabamaI have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.

    Coronach

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #2 on: August 11, 2012, 10:01:54 pm »
    Legal in most places. Sometimes it is an additional charge to wear them in commission of a crime.

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 02:18:57 am »
    Are sapi plates legal?
    OregonThose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. Abraham Lincoln

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    GaBoy45

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 03:15:27 pm »
    Are sapi plates legal?

    I am also interested in knowing the legality of the sapi plates.
    “It takes very little to govern good people. Very little. And bad people cant be governed at all. Or if they could I never heard of it.”
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    Nightcrawler

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 03:24:24 pm »
    You can buy SAPI plates on EBay and from various manufacturers.  There's no Federal law against owning body armor.  There may be state or local laws against it if you live in a terrible place.
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    onesmack4u

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 03:45:58 pm »
    I am pretty sure there is federal law against felons owning body armor, but it rarely comes into play.
    AlabamaI have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 04:07:21 pm »
    Talked to a State Trooper friend today, and he said the only state law Georgia has on the books about body armor is if it is used in the commission of a felony. He then went on to recommend the brands he liked. Gotta love LEOs (though it went into a 20 minute conversation on my new M1A and how he disliked the HK36 he was issued).
    “It takes very little to govern good people. Very little. And bad people cant be governed at all. Or if they could I never heard of it.”
    ― Cormac McCarthy, No Country for Old Men

    Gunnguy

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 04:57:18 pm »
    So no speeding over 100 MPH while wearing a 3A vest. Got it!

    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #9 on: August 12, 2012, 05:25:17 pm »
    Usually the 'in commission of a crime' clause is reserved for scenarios in which the item in question assists in the commission of said crime. So, bad for armed robbery, irrelevant to reckless operation of a MV.

    Usually. Silly places may do silly things.

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #10 on: August 12, 2012, 05:49:52 pm »
    Usually the 'in commission of a crime' clause is reserved for scenarios in which the item in question assists in the commission of said crime. So, bad for armed robbery, irrelevant to reckless operation of a MV.

    Usually. Silly places may do silly things.

    Mike

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    LOL! I was being facetious!
    But now that you meantion it... :hmm...with today's prosecutors and bad laws on the books...you never know.
    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #11 on: August 12, 2012, 06:15:47 pm »
    I figured, but some n00bs might not get the humor ...

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    seanp

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #12 on: August 12, 2012, 06:28:00 pm »
    Just to throw in the laws from here:  Many provinces now have specific legislation against "civilian" ownership of body armor.  There are the usual exemptions for police, security, PAL holders, and people who want to pay $50 a year for a "permit".

    Ridiculous, but there it is.  I'm surprised California doesn't have similar legislation.
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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #13 on: August 14, 2012, 02:45:18 am »
    Ridiculous, but there it is.  I'm surprised California doesn't have similar legislation.

    Who says they don't?

    I haven't looked at it, because I don't plan on spending more than another month in this God-forsaken granola-munching state, but I wouldn't be surprised, after the Hollywood bank robbery, if it wasn't banned.

    I had a "flak jacket" of some kind in my house for over three years before I PCS'd and turned it back in to my squadron. I don't know what level it was, but it was a Vietnam type vest style piece. I think it was just issued for added weight during exercises. Never wore it. I suspect my new squadron will issue similar, if not better gear.

    Of course, being Active Duty, I can carry my issued switchblade in uniform in most places, so the body armor probably fell in the same category.
    TexasOutbreak

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #14 on: August 14, 2012, 11:26:55 pm »
    I don;t know what NIJ protection level a flack jacket would be rated. Probably Level I, or something similarly low. Mos Def not worth the weight. By contrast, my new soft armor is Level IIIA, is reasonably comfortable, and is worn under my uniform shirt.

    Protective technology has come leaps and bounds in the past 20 years. We're in a time right now when, for the first time since the Crusades, a footsoldier can wear armor that will defeat the standard armament carried by opposing footsoldiers. This will (has, actually) started the old offense vs defense arms race off anew.

    Mike
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    Chief45

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #15 on: August 15, 2012, 01:01:48 am »
    off topic side note,  this summer we went to the new Elbeco external armor carrier.  Looks like a uniform shirt, goes over top.  more comfortable, looks good, better ventilation.   


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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #16 on: August 15, 2012, 10:03:52 am »
    I'd love to do armor-atop-uniform, but it will never, ever happen here. Not until we lose half of the Change Is Bad crowd at the top. We recently went through massive turnover topside, which was good, but the dead wood got replaced with a lot of not-quite-dead wood that had been waiting one rung lower. Demographically, we're now set up to have some fairly regular changeover in high places, so there's hope that by the time I retire, we will be solidly in the 21st century.

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    Nightcrawler

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    Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #17 on: August 15, 2012, 12:06:06 pm »
    Yeah, is there a reason cops are supposed to wear armor under their shirts? Seems to me most hardcore criminals know cops wear vests anyway. An overt vest might well be more comfortable and breathe better.

    I'm not a cop, so I have no idea. I think a lot of police uniforms could use some updating though. Like the blue shirt with the black pocket flaps. Looks very 70s. And I feel bad for jurisdictions that still wear Smokey the Bear hats.

    Oddly enough, I like the NYPD style crowned hat. Looks like a proper police hat.  You don't see a lot of them anymore. Do t most departments just have some kind of ball cap now?
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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #18 on: August 15, 2012, 01:08:22 pm »
    Because cops have to look more business like, less combative.
    But I agree.  Outside armor, pants tucked into boots, more intimidation, less violence will result.

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #19 on: August 15, 2012, 01:19:18 pm »
    It's the whole 'professional appearance' thing. We use the 'eight-point' style hat as well. I don't mind it, it is a 'proper' police hat. What I mind is the obsession that my superiors have with officers not wearing it. '... and wear your hats' has become a sort of running joke on the department.

    Until two years ago, we were all in TIES in wintertime, for cryin' out loud. Now, it is the clip-on variety, for safety's sake, but still... it is a clip on tie. "A sign of authority", so say my superiors. "Yes, worn by McDonald's managers the world over" is my reply. Fortunately, one of the big changes (really, this is what passes for 'massive change' around here) was the addition of a turtleneck and skull cap to our uniform. The skully is reserved for sub-freezing temperatures only (read previous section about hat obsession for a frame of reference), but the turtlneck can be worn anytime winter uniform is allowed (ceremonies and court excluded). My goal is to go through the rest of my career without wearing the tie more than a dozen more times.

    We're still wearing dress pants to chase bad guys, though. But in an odd twist, we are allowed to sew in a blackjack pocket. No blackjack, though ... mine carries either a flashlight or a Fallkniven G1.

    Mike
    « Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 01:29:34 pm by Coronach »
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    Sarge

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #20 on: August 15, 2012, 01:53:19 pm »
    Same deal in NYC, spend the year avoiding the tie, Turtleneck in the winter and try to hold on till short sleeves arrive spring/summer. Same eight point mania, 90 degrees with 85 percent humidity and the inspection jackels will pounce on you for trying to air out your head for a minute, while wearing dark blue and a vest at a public pool :banghead
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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #21 on: August 15, 2012, 02:31:56 pm »
    Hmmm.

    In my city Security, EMT's, and the Horse Cops all wear outside of uniform armor.  The city police don't appear to unless its the tac squad.  But the city police don't wear hats most of the time, whereas the RCMP nearly always do.  Of course the RCMP is essentially a paramilitary organization.
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    Nightcrawler

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    Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #22 on: August 15, 2012, 03:25:57 pm »
    Here's what might make a good police uniform, if ol' Nightcrawler were in charge:

    The uniform is made of lightweight, breathable, 50/50 nylon/cotton ripstop. Low maintenance and comfortable. Shirt has bi-swing shoulders and is cut to stay tucked in. Velcro on chest pockets and low profile buttons. Shoulder pockets are an option.

    Name and badge are sewn on.

    Pants are same material, BDU style with cargo and calf pockets. Worn blouses into combat boots for a professional image. Cut so that you can move in them, run in them, hop fences in them.

    Hat is a peaked, crowned cap, made of durable material and designed to be low maintenance. Alternative hats are a wool watch cap for winter and a ball cap with agency ID on it.

    The vest is Level IIIA, with good side coverage and stab resistance. Designed to be lightweight and breathable. It is worn over the uniform shirt. It has high-vis agency ID panels and a couple pockets for little stuff, as well as places for radio mikes and such. It's not intended to be a loaded-up IOTV or anything.

    The gun belt carries the sidearm and most of the other police equipment. Holster rides a little lower to clear the vest. If the gunbelt is really heavy, you could wear low profile suspenders under the vest to take some of the weight off your hips.

    Every cop carries a small trauma kit in his cargo pocket, including tourniquets he can put on himself if need be. This does not replace the first aid kit in the car, but allows him to perform immediate self aid if wounded.

    Each officer is also issued a layered Gore Tex ensemble for inclement weather. This includes jacket and pants, a designed around allowing access to his duty belt and being comfortable.

    A plate carrier with rifle plates and ammo pouches for carbine or shotgun rides with those weapons. Designed to be quickly thrown on over the duty vest and work with the duty belt.

    This police department gets more funding for more officers and better training instead of acquiring armored vehicles and crap from the Department of Homeland Security.

    Keep dreaming. LOL

    I don't know anything about being a cop, but I know gear, and my officers would have good, practical gear.   
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    Avenger29

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #23 on: August 15, 2012, 04:07:38 pm »
    Can we get the same style of uniform for park rangers (well, without the armor and gear)?

    We are still hamstrung into using crappy, very hot pants and shirts that stain and rip if you look at them sideways and still wearing the stupid, stupid campaign hat. And ties. Gah! I hate this crap, it's worthless for field work and is very uncomfortable. It'd be one thing if I was behind a counter in a well air conditioned building all day. It's quite another when I'm on search and rescue missions or out weedeating all day.

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    Every cop carries a small trauma kit in his cargo pocket, including tourniquets he can put on himself if need be

    tourniquet in a pocket saved one of our county officers this week.

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    Re: Question for LEO's...
    « Reply #24 on: August 17, 2012, 04:04:33 am »
    I'm TDY in SoCal right now. This evening I went to the gas station right outside the base gate to grab a 12-pack, and an unmarked Crown Vic rolls up. The guy that stepped out looked like some of the guys I saw in Afghanistan.

    Didn't get a good look at all the kit, but he was wearing a full chest rig, with a big reflective "POLICE" on the back, pressed cargo pants, ball cap, and combat boots. I've never seen a cop just doing his rounds in an unmarked patrol car looking like that. I know he was just doing his routine because when he rolled up I heard the cashier say, "oh, it's Officer So-n-so."
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