Author Topic: Obama to announce historic overhaul of relations; Cuba releases American (Read 5053 times)

Gabrielus · « **on:** December 17, 2014, 12:08:07 pm »

Is this a good thing? Cause I'm not sure.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/politics/cuba-alan-gross-deal/index.html

WeTheArmed.com

coelacanth · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2014, 04:43:19 pm »

A lot depends on your perspective but generally speaking, I don't think so.

Kaso · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2014, 06:56:00 pm »

I don't think it much matters. The US is joined with China at the hip, and the vast majority of Americans are blissfully unconcerned. Cuba is our neighbor, and we can influence the course of their government if we are on better terms. Further, the US sanctions against Cuba are of limited effect, as ours is the only country that has them.

So lift the embargo, allow investment, and when the Castros finally die, make it so 'pro-US' is something the new leader wants to be.

Kaso

Grant · « **Reply #3 on:** December 17, 2014, 10:05:23 pm »

Quote from: Kaso on December 17, 2014, 06:56:00 pm

I don't think it much matters. The US is joined with China at the hip, and the vast majority of Americans are blissfully unconcerned. Cuba is our neighbor, and we can influence the course of their government if we are on better terms. Further, the US sanctions against Cuba are of limited effect, as ours is the only country that has them.

So lift the embargo, allow investment, and when the Castros finally die, make it so 'pro-US' is something the new leader wants to be.

Exactly. Compared to CHina or any other "friendly enemies" Cuba isn't even a blip. Hell, considering every other nation in the world is on good relations with them....why not? If we're involved we can tweak them a bit like we do everyone else.

sarge712 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 17, 2014, 10:49:49 pm »

Maybe all our 'Murica-hatin' liberals/socialists/progressives will rush to that worker's paradise now that there's a free exchange. Say 1,000 libs per cigar?

kunkmiester · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2014, 12:51:27 am »

Someone on another forum pointed out part of the embargo isn't because Cuba is commie, but because they didn't compensate US citizens for seized assets when they nationalized everything. That's why they're restricted, while we give billions in aid to worse dictatorships.

Harm · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2014, 02:00:35 am »

I'll order some cigars

Better to watch the world burn...

RetroGrouch · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2014, 03:30:57 am »

Great, another third world sh-t hole run by a murderous human rights violating sociopath that we can give billions of dollars in "aid".

Here's an idea, why don't we just sever relations with any country that fits the above description and stop giving their government money so they can't use it against their people or us?

Before we say this overhaul is a good idea, why not talk to the Cuban ex-pats down in Miami about Cuba's "dear leader"?

As far as the embargo goes, the rest of the world does business with Cuba, and Castro has managed to turn a gem of a country into a communist dictator run disaster. The US has full relations and no embargo of Haiti, and it is still a disaster. Because it has been run by sociopathic dictators. See a pattern there?

Grant · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2014, 08:25:29 am »

Quote from: RetroGrouch on December 18, 2014, 03:30:57 am

Great, another third world sh-t hole run by a murderous human rights violating sociopath that we can give billions of dollars in "aid".

Here's an idea, why don't we just sever relations with any country that fits the above description and stop giving their government money so they can't use it against their people or us?

Before we say this overhaul is a good idea, why not talk to the Cuban ex-pats down in Miami about Cuba's "dear leader"?

As far as the embargo goes, the rest of the world does business with Cuba, and Castro has managed to turn a gem of a country into a communist dictator run disaster. The US has full relations and no embargo of Haiti, and it is still a disaster. Because it has been run by sociopathic dictators. See a pattern there?

Not saying it's perfect. I'm saying what we currently do is no good. Yes, we screw up relations with everyone else, done correctly.....this would be a good thing.

JesseL · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2014, 12:05:52 pm »

Quote from: RetroGrouch on December 18, 2014, 03:30:57 am

Great, another third world sh-t hole run by a murderous human rights violating sociopath that we can give billions of dollars in "aid".

Cuba is Second World. They get their aid from Russia.

Strategically speaking it's probably a smart move to get on friendlier terms with Cuba and woo them away from Russia - seeing as they're sitting right on our doorstep and all.

Plebian · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2014, 12:09:15 pm »

I tend to agree it is likely better to be friends. It has clearly not done anything for us to embargo them for so long.

booksmart · « **Reply #11 on:** December 18, 2014, 05:30:29 pm »

The only thing it's really accomplished is kept us bereft of good cigars...

RetroGrouch · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2014, 09:26:38 pm »

Aside from Cuban cigars, rum and beaches, all of which are not better than in other parts of the world, what do WE get from normalizing relations with Cuba? Another hostile country to pour money down a rat hole while they keep on doing the same ole crap to their people and their neighbors in the Western Hemisphere. While we finance it.

People want to normalize relations with Cuba? Put some real conditions on it. Open elections, monitored by the US. Allow emigration from Cuba to the US without repercussions. Stop supporting terrorist / criminals in the Carribean, Central and South America. Open the doors of the political prisons where they physically torture dissidents by maiming them. Then shut down the secret police and prisons. Then they can have full relations and no embargo.

And if Cuba is second world, then Mexico is First world.

JesseL · « **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2014, 09:53:23 pm »

Quote from: RetroGrouch on December 18, 2014, 09:26:38 pm

Aside from Cuban cigars, rum and beaches, all of which are not better than in other parts of the world, what do WE get from normalizing relations with Cuba?

Maybe a nation that won't be so willing and eager to host ballistic missile launch sites or otherwise offer military staging grounds right off our coast?

Quote from: RetroGrouch on December 18, 2014, 09:26:38 pm

And if Cuba is second world, then Mexico is First world.

You do know that 1st/2nd/3rd World doesn't just refer to the level of advancement of a nation, right?

The First World referred to the western allies during the Cold War, The Second World was the communist nations allied with the USSR, and the Third World was everyone else who was neutral or otherwise unaligned with the superpowers.

RetroGrouch · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2014, 02:31:54 am »

I'm sorry, I was using the terms more on a civilization level, which was inaccurate. My apologies, especially in light of how much using terms incorrectly bothers me.

But I don't for a second believe that the Cuban government will ever be our friend, or even neutral towards us, so long as it is run by the Castros or their cronies. They can sit there and blame all of Cuba's problems on the "evil" USA. I don't believe the Cuban people themselves hate us now, but they have no influence over the tyrannical state ruling over them.

Nightcrawler · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2014, 03:15:43 am »

And then there's this:

http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/17/leftists-mourn-possible-end-of-cuban-poverty/

Quote

Sure, Cuba is a failed state and a miserable socialist dictatorship. But it’s so quaint!

Hat tip to Michael C. Moynihan for spotting all these beneficiaries of capitalism with the same stupid joke and/or lament:

Quote

Hope you like Coke, McDonald's, & Bank Of America, Cuba! …and loathe your last undisturbed coral reef along an undeveloped coastline.

— Dan Brian (@DanielBrian) December 17, 2014

Looks like I'll be going to Cuba again sooner than I thought. I have to beat McDonald's there

— Son of my Actions (@RogueChieftan) December 17, 2014

coming next to #Cuba: drunken spring breakers, McDonalds and a couple more military bases

— Irina Galushko (@IrinaGalushkoRT) December 17, 2014

Cuba is going to look GREAT with McDonald's golden arches everywhere! pic.twitter.com/NgL7qctlqt

— Lazlo Morphine (@adammc123) December 17, 2014

I really hope I can make it to #Cuba before McDonald's, Starbucks, etc.

— Matt Bradley (@MattMcBradley) December 17, 2014

The US opening up Cuba is huge news. Cuba is an amazing country…hope it doesn't get ruined with Starbucks & McDonald's on every corner

— SPEAK (@speakz) December 17, 2014

I guess I'll have to revisit Cuba quickly if I want to see it again before it's fully americanized. #McDonalds

— Mathieu von Rohr (@mathieuvonrohr) December 17, 2014

I just really really really want to go to #Cuba before there's a McDonald's and KFC on every third corner.

— afertig (@afertig) December 17, 2014

Should get down to Cuba right quick before there's a McDonalds on every corner and 350 lb U.S racists snapping their fingers at the locals.

— Mac Ball (@PitchforkTorchz) December 17, 2014

booking my Cuba vacation now before there's a Starbucks, a McDonald's, and a bank on every block

— Matt Binder (@MattBinder) December 17, 2014

Or, more generally:

I'm very glad I was able to visit Cuba several times before US tourists try to turn it into Cancun

— jeremy scahill (@jeremyscahill) December 17, 2014

Quote

Yeah, you know who else doesn’t like this news? Cancun’s tourism industry.

Keeping brown people in grinding poverty is a small price to pay for autenticidad, no?

Kaso · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2014, 07:18:01 am »

Wow... That's special.

Kaso

ksuguy · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2014, 08:22:05 am »

Wow, what a bunch of condescending a______s. If Cuba is going to get so bad, maybe they can travel to Haiti to enjoy the misery and poverty in it's quaint, natural state.

coelacanth · « **Reply #18 on:** December 22, 2014, 01:36:00 am »

Absolutely. Or if you you don't want to bother with the TSA you could do a road trip to Detroit.

Persquaffty · « **Reply #19 on:** December 22, 2014, 05:36:45 am »

I dont know if Our Commander and Chief presents me with a chance to smoke a good cigar with a good glass of rum I think that hes probably done something I can finally approve of. Long live our glorious Republic

coelacanth · « **Reply #20 on:** December 23, 2014, 09:32:05 pm »

You could have done that anywhere from Miami to Key West anytime in the last 50 years. No thanks to the governments of either Cuba or the USA.