I'm generally pro-wolf-reintroduction, but a couple of things:

1. I don't live in any of the areas where they've been re-introduced.
2. I'm also perfectly in favor of culling the pack size if they get too big.
3. I'm also perfectly in favor of herd owners eliminating wolves on sight on their grazing land.

Wolves (and to a lesser extent coyotes) do a nice job of keeping deer populations in check. And if the wolf population can sustain a hunting season, then they should be hunted. Period. Once you get to that point, they're not in danger of extinction, so the granola-types can stop wringing their hands.

Mike

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Trouble is keeping them in check, rather than just controlling the deer population they pretty much destroy it before you get an option for hunting, and then the option for hunting is downright crazy. Right now if this season does go through here in Michigan, you pay for a tag, then call in every day of the hunt to make sure you can still take a wolf, if too many are already taken your SOL. That's honestly too many hoops to jump through, we've in this area gone from having plenty of deer to hunt and eat(I grew up with more venison than beef) to barely seeing any. Not to mention when tracking deer while wolves are around it's dang near a race to see who can find the kill first, which makes it a real pain to track. If you shoot then let the deer bleed out for a half hour or hour which is what you should do so it doesn't jump up and run again possibly without blood to track it can run off and die. So you wait, but instead of finding a deer you find a nice wide circle of blood, hair and a few bones. So you gotta track way to early, which is more of a problem with bow than it is with rifle depending on caliber.

I guess I'm in the camp with the guys that trapped and took them out of here in the first place, I knew a few of them all but one have passed away now but those same guys got rid of the wolves here and kept them away with a reason and now we're seeing the same issues just they haven't become quite as bad yet. Either way I didn't see a problem with our area without the wolves.

Luke

Adding, it's about like having feral dogs around running in packs but without the option to put them down, I guess put that in your mind instead of wolves. Dogs really are basically bred from wolves down the bloodline and a feral dog isn't quite as dangerous as a wolf but around the same thing.

Luke, it sounds like a lot (not all) of the issues have to with asinine restrictions on the wolf hunt, as opposed to the presence of wolves themselves. If they could institute a reasonable hunt without having to deal with constant yammering and wailing from the crunchies, you may well see the emergence of a wary, small population of wolves that learn that humans are bad juju and that bad things happen to wolves when they're around, so stay away. Unfortunately, the animal rights buffoons might well doom the wolf reintroduction program by being obstinate asses.

Mike

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Luke, it sounds like a lot (not all) of the issues have to with asinine restrictions on the wolf hunt, as opposed to the presence of wolves themselves. If they could institute a reasonable hunt without having to deal with constant yammering and wailing from the crunchies, you may well see the emergence of a wary, small population of wolves that learn that humans are bad juju and that bad things happen to wolves when they're around, so stay away. Unfortunately, the animal rights buffoons might well doom the wolf reintroduction program by being obstinate asses.

Mike

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Therein lies a big part of the problem. The people that push for reintroduction also push for the insane restrictions on hunting them. Talking with my Dad and other people in Idaho, the reintroduction of the gray wolf to the Yellowstone region has been one clustercuss after another.  Firstly, the wolf they brought in was the Canadian Gray (from my understanding) which was a larger "breed" than the gray that used to roam the area.  Then the absurd restriction on shooting them if they caused problems with livestock (unless the wolf died with its mouth around the neck of your livestock you were guilty until proven innocent).  Add in that there were no natural predators of the wolf..and the population boomed.  At one point the pup survival rate of the packs was upwards of 90%.  They went from 6 wolves to over 100 in a couple years...and it kept going.  The states (ID, WY, MT) wanted to introduce a hunt and got hit with lawsuits.  The .gov took them off the endangered list finally so there could be a hunt..and another lawsuit was filed so the hunts were put on hold while the lawsuit wound through the courts.  Meanwhile..the deer and elk populations suffered.  The packs got strong enough that they weren't just hunting the old and sick animals any more..but chasing healthy animals.  Sometimes not catching them, but running them nearly to death.

It's put a huge hit on the hunting opportunities there...to the point that the state is not getting the funds they used to from out-of-state hunters...there's so many fewer big or trophy animals that people aren't wanting to pay to try for them.

If you've got the time, I'd love to hear more details about that.

They wanted to know population holding/sustainable breeding size/wild guesses to population growth rate etc etc. It was run of the mill requests that flow across my desk from extra agency groups. I was also asked to do the impact effects as well.

The population numbers were everyday stuff, but they disliked my whole report on environmental impacts. They didn't like any of my numbers on the cattle herd effects any sustainable population would have. I used good solid(decades of research on predation) data on cattle losses from Montana, Wyoming and Canadian provinces. I also used what research I could dig from Mexico on behavioral differences of the Mexican Grey.

Which pointed to sorta a cross between coyote-like predation mixed with traditional grey wolf pack hunting predation. It seems the Mexican wolves drift in and out of solid packs. They are more a loose group of animals that cooperate to hunt large animals, but they also do coyote like individual hunting as well. Their hunting tactics correlate quite closely to the Dingo in Australia.

That pointed to likely larger than normal wolf impact on household domestic animals, smaller food animals(chickens/rabbits) and medium food animals(sheep/goats). It also means there would likely be larger than normal target of opportunity attacks on humans(most likely children/women).     

They wanted to know population holding/sustainable breeding size/wild guesses to population growth rate etc etc. It was run of the mill requests that flow across my desk from extra agency groups. I was also asked to do the impact effects as well.

The population numbers were everyday stuff, but they disliked my whole report on environmental impacts. They didn't like any of my numbers on the cattle herd effects any sustainable population would have. I used good solid(decades of research on predation) data on cattle losses from Montana, Wyoming and Canadian provinces. I also used what research I could dig from Mexico on behavioral differences of the Mexican Grey.

Which pointed to sorta a cross between coyote-like predation mixed with traditional grey wolf pack hunting predation. It seems the Mexican wolves drift in and out of solid packs. They are more a loose group of animals that cooperate to hunt large animals, but they also do coyote like individual hunting as well. Their hunting tactics correlate quite closely to the Dingo in Australia.

That pointed to likely larger than normal wolf impact on household domestic animals, smaller food animals(chickens/rabbits) and medium food animals(sheep/goats). It also means there would likely be larger than normal target of opportunity attacks on humans(most likely children/women).     

Much appreciated... and rather unsettling 

Wolves (and to a lesser extent coyotes) do a nice job of keeping deer populations in check.

Unfortunately, this area of the country has a hard enough time keeping deer and elk population up. Rainfall is a major limiting factor in how much wildlife can be sustained and the herds here are more than kept in check by mountain lions, black bear, and human hunting. Add in wolf predation and something else is going to suffer.

No problem, I had to look back into my notes a bit.

My professional opinion is you should be careful take precautions, and you should allow them to live free. They are more scared of you etc etc   

That's why I think that, if we want the wolf to survive, we need to put distance between us and them. As long as they stay in their protected area then humans entering there take their chances.  If the wolves venture into human territory then humans can deal with them appropriately. I suspect that after a few generations the wolves will relearn why it is a bad idea to hunt man.

Darwin award in 5 ...,  4 ...,  3 ...,  2 ...,  1 ...

My stepfather was driving out of their neighborhood one afternoon, and there was an small oldtimer coming the other way. They both stopped to watch a guy carefully peeling pieces of bacon off a rasher to feed to a black bear. By hand.

As my stepfather pulled even with the old timer, the oldtimer looked at him and, shaking his head, said, "What a dumb son-of-a-b***h."

... which is nothing compared to my Mom petting the Mama bear while feeding her from a bucket of corn. 

My sister and I both read her the riot act for that bit o' idiocy.

I love it. 

Love wolves... I need another wolf pup.
I miss Ranger and Raven.

And this just in... http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/extremely-rare-jaguar-spotted-arizona-mountains-201801945.html

Oh goodie. Was it reported outside AZ what happened the last time a jaguar was spotted in AZ? Ethics seem to go completely out the window for the USFWS and AZGFD when grant money is involved 

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20121215macho-b-death-jaguar-mystery.html

Yup.  Crap like that makes me want to tear up my membership card for the human race.