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Author Topic: Education Rant  (Read 4236 times)

Storyteller

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Education Rant
« on: August 14, 2013, 07:33:43 pm »
Ok, I'm old. I admit that, nay, I glory in it.  But sometimes I wonder if it's worth sticking around.
Today I was reading about the horse in Mongolia, one that duplicates the Great Khan's "mail system". I remarked to my project Engineer that the Khan's system was some 2-300 years before our own "Pony Express".  My "Engineer", is an electrical engineer, advanced degree from UCI, University of California, Irvine. This fine young scholar looked at me with absolute sincerity and asked "What's that?" When I explained it, he looked at me and announced he had never taken any history because you know, that stuff is old and not very interesting. And besides it doesn't have any meaning today.   :facepalm
I can only be glad my daughter has my grandkids in a "Christian" school that "haz good teaching."
Sorry for the rant, but sometimes I need to tell someone. :coffee
HawaiiA cup of campfire coffee, in a hot tin cup, with a splash of Irish whiskey is why the Gods get up in the morning.

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    cpaspr

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #1 on: August 14, 2013, 09:08:33 pm »
    Brings to mind the old adage - they who refuse to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.
    Oregon

    Grant

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #2 on: August 14, 2013, 09:33:43 pm »
      ohh....no disagreeing there....I learned more from 8th grade books than I learned from highschool books....

        I'm hoping like hell Montana gets a charter/private school system finalized if I ever have kids.  I'm NOT going to homeschool even with better education and town school is a joke.

     
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Plebian

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #3 on: August 14, 2013, 10:29:21 pm »
    You get out of education what you put into it. If a child is motivated to learn. They will find a way.

    The big issue right now is the stigma on going to a "technical" college. They are somehow less than "real" colleges. Our modern society needs those technically skilled folks. There is a flood of BA degrees with no skill to do anything useful.
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    Grant

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #4 on: August 14, 2013, 10:51:04 pm »
    You get out of education what you put into it. If a child is motivated to learn. They will find a way.

    The big issue right now is the stigma on going to a "technical" college. They are somehow less than "real" colleges. Our modern society needs those technically skilled folks. There is a flood of BA degrees with no skill to do anything useful.

    True....HOWEVER.....There is a lot of stuff not even IN....schoolbooks....that I mean are like...really? how ould you not put that in.   OKAY...if someone's interested they can research....

    But by putting WW2 into a single CONDENSED chapter in my Highschool "advanced history" book?? I mean...really  :scrutiny      Or not even mentioning the Spanish-American War.....Or the Depression......
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    louie the lumberjack

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #5 on: August 14, 2013, 11:21:02 pm »
    He NEVER took a history class?  He had to have taken some kind of social studies course to earn his degree.  Im almost curious to find out what he though was more meaningful.

    But by putting WW2 into a single CONDENSED chapter in my Highschool "advanced history" book?? I mean...really  :scrutiny      Or not even mentioning the Spanish-American War.....Or the Depression......

    I was fortunate enough to take a course in high school specific to WW2, and Vietnam for that matter.  I doubt the courses are still offered since the teacher that taught them retired a couple years after I graduated. He did tell the class his one gripe about teaching history:  there's too much to cover over a given term and that each year, another year is added to the books.  They have to omit something at some point.

    louie the lumberjack
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    Avenger29

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #6 on: August 15, 2013, 12:44:41 am »
    Not a word about WWII WWI Vietnam Korea or any war besides the American Revolution and the Civil.War was ever uttered in my public school normal courses.

    The one and only course such was talked about was AP US History. The normal students that.never took this class never heard about our wars or even the majority of our history.

    The only history we were taught was about the Civil War (and it was strictly "the South was evil, everybody in the South owned slaves and hated blacks and Lincoln and the North loved blacks and freed them from the evil South" type history. The rest of the time was spent on the Civil Rights Movement and how evil all us white southerners are to this day.

    Only in AP US History were we taught about Pre Rev War America, the industrial revolution, the expansion of the US into the west etc.



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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #7 on: August 15, 2013, 03:00:00 am »
    When I was at school here in the UK both WWI and WWII were covered pretty well, and from a project my niece did a year or so ago they still are. Don't know about in the US, but I've heard Korea termed the 'Forgotten War' and for good reason - it was never mentioned in the history classes I took.
    The odd thing was that our Civil War never got a mention. Nor did the Glorious Revolution that led to the Bill of Rights Act - though teaching this would mean they'd have to teach us what was in it, including Section 2 (every English protestant male has the right to keep and bear such arms as he wishes...., sound familiar?)
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    ksuguy

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #8 on: August 15, 2013, 09:09:47 am »
    Last History class I took,  World War II was one page and Korea was barely mentioned.     However, we did get plenty of bulls___ about existentialism in the 19th century.   


    Kansas

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #9 on: August 15, 2013, 09:16:29 am »
    I guess I was fortunate, I went to public school and we covered all of that stuff.  Usually the big wars got at least a week.

    RevDisk

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #10 on: August 15, 2013, 09:55:39 am »

    Most history classes, in both HS and college, tend to be hideously boring and suck.

    There's lots of interesting history. I have always enjoyed little known local history. Like soldiers from Lancaster PA marching on Congress and wanting to lynch Hamilton (may he burn in hell), the 30 year PA-CT war, Pennsylvania's sole witch trial, etc. But most history teachers seem to hate interesting history, and stick to memorizing dates, people, etc. 
    To know the darkness is to love the light,
    to welcome dawn and fear the coming night.
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    dubber308

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #11 on: August 15, 2013, 12:40:05 pm »
    I feel lucky that I had the history teacher that I did. I learned about the Whiskey Rebellion and the Bonus March. I learned about Lincoln's un-constitutional over-reaches and Crony Capitalism and FDR the Great Socialist. We studied how history and economics are tied together and about laissez-faire and Keynesian and Austrian schools of economics. He always thought it was more important to know what and why things happened than to memorize a bunch of names and dates. He taught us to look outside of the book and question the popular narrative. Mr. Caspers was a big influence in my life and helped put me on the path to libertarianism.
    Montana�F**k Civility. Hyperbole, passion, and metaphor are beautiful parts of rhetoric. The marketplace of ideas cannot be toned down for the insane.� - Penn Jillette

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #12 on: August 16, 2013, 06:30:53 pm »
    I once watched a movie called "Idiocracy" and thought it satire.  I am considerably less sure of that opinion today.    :scrutiny
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    goatroper

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #13 on: August 21, 2013, 10:14:24 am »
    I once watched a movie called "Idiocracy" and thought it satire.  I am considerably less sure of that opinion today.    :scrutiny

    C, it wasn't a movie, it was prophecy.

    http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2013/08/18/this-one-goes-to-11-2/

    This One Goes to 11

    by Ed Driscoll

    Is it possible for one disastrous gaffe to recall 1984 by George Orwell, along with Spinal Tap, that classic “mockumentary,” and Chevy Chase on Saturday Night Live? Like Nigel Tufnel’s Marshall amplifier, this one goes to 11:

        Quick: what’s 3 x 4?

        If you said 11 — or, hell, if you said 7, pi, or infinity squared — that’s just fine under the Common Core, the new national curriculum that the Obama administration will impose on American public school students this fall.

        In a pretty amazing YouTube video, Amanda August, a curriculum coordinator in a suburb of Chicago called Grayslake, explains that getting the right answer in math just doesn’t matter as long as kids can explain the necessarily faulty reasoning they used to get to that wrong answer.

        “Even if they said, ’3 x 4 was 11,’ if they were able to explain their reasoning and explain how they came up with their answer really in, umm, words and oral explanation, and they showed it in the picture but they just got the final number wrong, we’re really more focused on the how,” August says in the video.


    No, really:



    In Orwell’s 1984, Winston Smith observed:

        He picked up the children’s history book and looked at the portrait of Big Brother which formed its frontispiece. The hypnotic eyes gazed into his own. It was as though some huge force were pressing down upon you — something that penetrated inside your skull, battering against your brain, frightening you out of your beliefs, persuading you, almost, to deny the evidence of your senses. In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense. And what was terrifying was not that they would kill you for thinking otherwise, but that they might be right. For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable what then?

    Though of course, a repeated unfamiliarity with basic concepts of mathematics explains volumes about the current administration:

    [ Couldn't get video to embed - see link above. ]

    **********************************

    This is what they're doing - and they're serious:


    VirginiaGoatroper

    Mississippi556

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #14 on: August 21, 2013, 11:31:46 am »
    I'm trying to learn more about what Common Core actually is.   I'm trying to penetrate the fog of war surrounding it and get down to its own "core", if you will.

    My daughter is a high school guidance counselor in a public school system that has recently adopted it.  She gives it mixed reviews.  On the one hand, encouraging the ability to think and reason is an excellent thing.   Rote memory alone does not bode well in a society increasingly rewarding cognitive abilities.  Knowing the underlying principles, whether they be math, science or any other recognized discipline is important.  But, getting full credit for giving the wrong ultimate answer is simply stupid, no matter how well the student demonstrated a working knowledge of the concepts involved.  Partial credit for knowing the principles might be a good thing.  But a wrong answer is a wrong answer and no one should be "rewarded" with full credit for making a mistake.

    We can't rely on computers to do all of our thinking for us.  "Common Core" is supposed to help students become more self-reliant, or so I'm told.   But, they still have to get the answer right.  It matters little that I understand the pressure curve on a particular powder used with a particular bullet and primer in a particular round of ammunition, or how carefully I developed the load, if I absent mindedly double charged the case and blew up the gun and lost my hand or my eyesight or worse.   Mistakes have serious consequences.

    And when it comes to history, I completely agree that failure to teach or highly selective teaching from a political agenda is a disaster.  We do learn from our past.  Context matters.  If history classes fail to fully cover the pivotal events in the chronology of a nation, then we do, indeed, expose ourselves as a society to repeat our prior mistakes.   I was blessed in college with a world history professor who was a tank commander under Patton in Europe.  He was able to bring a dry subject to life.   I hope and pray that some of our young combatants who fought in Iraq and Afganistan seek teaching careers and bring their experiences to the classroom.   
    « Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 11:52:56 am by Mississippi556 »
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

    luke213(adamsholsters)

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    Re: Education Rant
    « Reply #15 on: August 21, 2013, 11:58:36 am »
    I agree that creative solutions and thinking are key to the success of people in general and the idea that kids should think outside the box is really important. I don't think the answer is giving them credit for incorrect answers either(not saying it is). The biggest thing that comes to mind when I think about this as a whole is Edison developing the incandescent light bulb. He tried something like 1000 different filaments that didn't work and when asked he said he found 1000 ways not to make a light bulb. He wasn't rewarded each time he failed, he took those failures and used the experience to move forward and develop a functional idea.

    I do the same thing in holsters, most of my rigs go through a bunch of iterations before they are something I'm happy with. I've developed and failed many many more projects than I've actually built and brought up on the site for sale. I haven't designed a thousand rigs that have failed, but I've probably gotten close to 50 or so now and even more considering variations on those designs. I've had success with my designs that I feel were good and that is the benefit and I've learned from those other failures as well.

    I think our education system needs to reflect real life a little more closely and that should allow our kids to learn how to live and function as adults in our existing system.

    Luke
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