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Author Topic: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It  (Read 3087 times)

Harm

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So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
« on: July 23, 2009, 04:27:53 pm »


Found this on another forum I was on today.  The battle is and always has been over control of liberty.  For whatever "higher" purpose you choose or any direction a dictator or government expands, it's about making choices for others.  Children and young people need to see this and understand it because to help them understand the world.  We need their help to make freedom ring! 

Watch it, share it. 
ArizonaIn Deo Confido

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    GeorgeHill

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #1 on: July 23, 2009, 04:51:39 pm »
    Too bad you can't get them to read a damn thing anymore.   :headexplode
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    Harm

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #2 on: July 23, 2009, 04:51:59 pm »
    tell me about it... :facepalm
    ArizonaIn Deo Confido

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    Plebian

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #3 on: July 23, 2009, 05:14:10 pm »
    Great idealistic presentation there. Everything is very simple in its ideal state. It is just too bad the real world is not ideal.  :devillol
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    Harm

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #4 on: July 23, 2009, 05:17:10 pm »
    If you watch it to the end I believe it addresses that.  But thats kind of the point in having something be ideal and as principled as possible.  Gives us something to strive for.
    ArizonaIn Deo Confido

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    JesseL

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #5 on: July 23, 2009, 05:20:04 pm »
    Great idealistic presentation there. Everything is very simple in its ideal state. It is just too bad the real world is not ideal.  :devillol

    Yep, it's complicated by thing like people who don't believe in self-ownership. Those people go by many names, but they're all basically Slavers. Their condition can be readily cured with a few feet of good rope.
    Arizona

    Plebian

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #6 on: July 23, 2009, 06:20:00 pm »
    Yep, it's complicated by thing like people who don't believe in self-ownership. Those people go by many names, but they're all basically Slavers. Their condition can be readily cured with a few feet of good rope.

    The complication is that even self-ownership can lead to enslavement. You can become nothing more than a wage slave if you are denied education. Even if that denial is through class or monetary means is neither here nor there. You can enslave people through religion and society as well. The thought of liberty is really only the thought of choice. If you have choice you can have liberty. If not you are a slave of some form.

    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    Harm

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #7 on: July 23, 2009, 06:32:23 pm »
    Actually Plebian calling religion and society devices of enslavment is a red herring.  People choose to belong, they choose to follow, they choose to submit.  Nothing anti liberty about it.  It's the enforcment against their will that it becomes a problem.  Last I checked, people were free to pursue religion or not, stay inside the building or not.  It's their call.
    ArizonaIn Deo Confido

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    Plebian

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #8 on: July 23, 2009, 06:44:02 pm »
    Actually Plebian calling religion and society devices of enslavment is a red herring.  People choose to belong, they choose to follow, they choose to submit.  Nothing anti liberty about it.  It's the enforcment against their will that it becomes a problem.  Last I checked, people were free to pursue religion or not, stay inside the building or not.  It's their call.

    It is not really their choice if that is all they know because of lack of education. Also it doesn't matter how good your business is if no one will do business with you. You can choose to be a hermit, i guess.
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    JesseL

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #9 on: July 23, 2009, 07:02:47 pm »
    Education isn't something you can really give someone.

    You might offer them schooling, but to guarantee it to them requires making slaves of the teachers or the people who pay them.



    Arizona

    Plebian

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #10 on: July 23, 2009, 07:17:03 pm »
    Education isn't something you can really give someone.

    You might offer them schooling, but to guarantee it to them requires making slaves of the teachers or the people who pay them.





    You can keep education from someone for sure. You are most correct in that you cannot give it. You can grant access to information.  ;)

    Your last point is spot on as to why this type of thought process is not possible. Someone is going to be taxed or lose some liberties to exist in a society, or we must all be hermits. Absolute liberty is not possible.

    So then the question comes down to where do we start drawing lines? Somebody is going to lose a choice somewhere, and that means he loses some part of liberty.
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    JesseL

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #11 on: July 23, 2009, 07:50:40 pm »
    Your last point is spot on as to why this type of thought process is not possible. Someone is going to be taxed or lose some liberties to exist in a society, or we must all be hermits. Absolute liberty is not possible.

    You could just forget about trying to use the government stick to guarantee things like education, or healthcare and let the market provide them with altruism taking up the slack.

    I reject the notion that people have to be forced to make a decent world for each other.
    Arizona

    Plebian

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #12 on: July 23, 2009, 08:27:49 pm »
    You could just forget about trying to use the government stick to guarantee things like education, or healthcare and let the market provide them with altruism taking up the slack.

    I reject the notion that people have to be forced to make a decent world for each other.

    A government can enforce the ABILITY to have access to such things as education and healthcare. This is in effect making use of the government to retain freedoms for the people. Which I believe is what a government is intended to do.
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    JesseL

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #13 on: July 23, 2009, 08:36:07 pm »
    A government can enforce the ABILITY to have access to such things as education and healthcare. This is in effect making use of the government to retain freedoms for the people. Which I believe is what a government is intended to do.

    I agree 100%.
    Arizona

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    Re: So Simple - A Politician Could Understand It
    « Reply #14 on: July 23, 2009, 09:53:12 pm »
    The subject line of this thread is actually based on an incorrect principle.

    If something IS simple, a politician can't understand it.

    A politician's ability to understand something is inversely proportional to how much sense it makes to non-politicians.
    Ishpeck's Law: As United States political discourse grows longer, the probability of Ronald Reagan being used as a justification for one's argument approaches one.
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