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Author Topic: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!  (Read 9733 times)

Feud

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Re: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2010, 12:03:09 am »
Sorry, Springmom, but Skeptic's got a point (though I do agree he's painting far to big a brushstroke).

You guys have any evidence aside from anecdotes?  Cause there's at least one study that disagrees with you:

Quote
Gender of voter also affected the types of facial inferences that predicted voting preferences (see Table 2). Candidates that appeared more competent were more likely to win votes of male [r (106) = 0.60, p<0.0001] (see Figure 2, bottom row) and female [r (106) = 0.61, p<0.0001] voters (see Figure 2, top row). In addition, male voters were significantly more likely to vote for candidates that appeared attractive [r (106) = 0.56, p<0.007] (see Figure 2, bottom left), while female voters were significantly more likely to vote for candidates that seemed approachable [r (106) = 0.46, p<0.03] (see Figure 2, top right).

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0003666#s3

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    Skeptic49

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    Re: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!
    « Reply #26 on: June 11, 2010, 07:21:04 am »
    Did I actually read that?  Or am I hallucinating?  I cannot BELIEVE that statement was seriously floated out here.  Total nonsense.  Absolute and total nonsense. Outrageous absolute and total nonsense. Jan 

    Not according to surveys on the local talk radio channel after the last election.  After hearing that on the radio I also did an informal survey of my female relatives... :facepalm

    Geoff
    Who afterward realized he DID NOT really want to know.  Sigh.

    Ishpeck

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    Re: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!
    « Reply #27 on: June 11, 2010, 08:27:01 am »
    How about having parents read it first, then let the kids read it.

    That's precisely what the disclaimer suggests.

    And it is an interesting conundrum that we, as parents face.  I want my daughter to grow up learning to disobey.  I consider dissent a beautiful sign of maturity.  At the same time, you look at how the punk movement went, where disobedience was done for its own sake and you wonder if a little bit of sheepdom isn't justified.

    Liberty, the power to self-govern, is a beautiful and sacred thing.  But in order for one to govern one's self, one must first learn self-discipline and obedience to sound principles.  For if one disobeys all rules, they must inevitably disobey rules that they established even for themselves.  In order for someone's self-government to matter, they must learn to obey SOME kind of government.  In order for sound government to prevail, it must be obeyed. 

    Teaching your kids to discern a sound rule from an arbitrary one is difficult.  Our own prejudices are bound to declare any rule that merely annoys us as unjustified and our rebellion will be little more than childish railing.

    It's incredibly difficult to teach someone to distinguish correct rules from authoritarianism and there is generally more peace/tranquility when you choose not to defy authoritarians.

    But I'll be damned if I ever teach my kid to shut up, roll over and ride with whatever people throw at her whether it's through a vote or even asinine cultural precedent.  Upholding rules just because they are rules is retarded.  Robert F. Williams knew this.  Gandhi knew this.  Patrick Henry knew this.

    Teaching kids to differentiate being a rioter like in the Rodney King situation from forcing the King to sign the Magna Carta is tough stuff.  And it's totally understandable why some parents may feel threatened by and shrink from this duty. 

    Amazon was just letting people know what they'd be getting into.

    As for women voting, my mother taught me to thoroughly research candidates by their documented histories and policies and not by their looks or the madness of the talking heads.  She demonstrated to me exactly how to responsibly exercise franchise.  Sure, there are a LOT of people who vote for the wrong reasons -- male, female and androgynous alike.  Smart voters are probably rare and distributed equally among all sexes.  I consider the case of women voting to be closed.
    Ishpeck's Law: As United States political discourse grows longer, the probability of Ronald Reagan being used as a justification for one's argument approaches one.
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    Thernlund

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    Re: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!
    « Reply #28 on: June 11, 2010, 01:12:58 pm »
    I want my daughter to grow up learning to disobey.

    ...

    But I'll be damned if I ever teach my kid to shut up, roll over and ride with whatever people throw at her...

    HA!  Good luck with that.  :D

    Hit us back up the first time you say "Because I said so".

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    EDIT:  Of course I'm just kiddin' with ya.  But only a little.  ;)
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    Outbreak

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    Re: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!
    « Reply #29 on: June 11, 2010, 02:01:01 pm »
    Re: the women voting comment... :popcorn

    FMJ in 2004 (who would be 12 years old

    Holy crap, dude. You managed to make a twenty-something feel OLD!
    TexasOutbreak

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    springmom

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    Re: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!
    « Reply #30 on: June 12, 2010, 12:52:26 pm »
    Not according to surveys on the local talk radio channel after the last election.  After hearing that on the radio I also did an informal survey of my female relatives... :facepalm

     :scrutiny
     :facepalm
     :banghead
     :headexplode

    The woefully inadequate research methodology speaks for itself.

    Jan
    If a thing looks too good to be true, best to shoot it.  Just in case.

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    I agree with the Court that the Second Amendment is fully applicable to the States.  I do so because the right to keep and bear a

    Skeptic49

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    Re: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!
    « Reply #31 on: June 12, 2010, 07:41:05 pm »
    The woefully inadequate research methodology speaks for itself.
    Jan

    And how would one design a survey to get an honest answer?

    Geoff
    Who doesn't expect much despite 50 years of "women's liberation" which has led to great silliness.

    springmom

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    Re: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!
    « Reply #32 on: June 13, 2010, 08:26:21 pm »
    Are you serious?  It hardly takes a Ph.D. in statistics to put together a basic study that could sample, without built-in bias, the factors that people *report* as influencing their votes.  Of course, we can't get inside their heads and follow their thoughts at the moment of voting, and people may delude themselves as to why they chose the way they did.  Radio call-ins are self-selecting in the population they sample.  KTRH, 740 AM here in the Houston area, is the talk radio I usually listen to (Rush, Hannity, a local politician who is involved in the Tea Party...pretty good stuff for the most part) but their call in surveys make me laugh.  They would never get anyone of a more liberal (or even moderate) bent listening, and therefore never have them answering such surveys.  Hardly surprising, then, that the vast majority of survey answers are skewed toward the conservative perspective.

    And that's fine, they're interesting and entertaining, especially when they play back people's actual responses.  But they are not an unbiased survey, no basis in fact.  Gleaning opinions from one's family members even less so.

    Quote
    Who doesn't expect much despite 50 years of "women's liberation" which has led to great silliness.

    I don't quite know what you're getting at here, and if you wish to take it to PM, we can continue that off topic discussion.  But don't go there in this thread.

    Jan
    If a thing looks too good to be true, best to shoot it.  Just in case.

    -----Fionna Glenanne, Burn Notice


    I agree with the Court that the Second Amendment is fully applicable to the States.  I do so because the right to keep and bear a

    Ishpeck

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    Re: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!
    « Reply #33 on: June 13, 2010, 09:10:28 pm »
    Hit us back up the first time you say "Because I said so".

    Will do.  :P

    Hopefully I don't ever have to.  But parents do what they gotta do.
    Ishpeck's Law: As United States political discourse grows longer, the probability of Ronald Reagan being used as a justification for one's argument approaches one.
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    Thernlund

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    Re: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!
    « Reply #34 on: June 14, 2010, 02:19:17 am »
    True that brother.  True that.  ;)


    -T.
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    Ishpeck

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    Re: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!
    « Reply #35 on: June 14, 2010, 09:55:48 am »
    In either case, my kids will not grow up without a familiarity of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.  What they are, what they aren't, and why they matter.
    Ishpeck's Law: As United States political discourse grows longer, the probability of Ronald Reagan being used as a justification for one's argument approaches one.
    http://www.ishpeck.net/

    Skeptic49

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    Re: Constitution and Declaration published with Parental Warning!
    « Reply #36 on: June 14, 2010, 05:14:12 pm »
    I don't quite know what you're getting at here, and if you wish to take it to PM, we can continue that off topic discussion.  But don't go there in this thread.

    Too far off topic and I am loath to define a topic where it could be discussed.

    Geoff
    Who knows his limitations.

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