Author Topic: Colorado Shooting (Read 26922 times)

RMc · « **Reply #25 on:** July 20, 2012, 07:08:59 pm »

The NEW YORKER has already taken an emotional editorial response to today's headline shooting:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/07/aurora-movie-shooting-one-more-massacre.html

Gun types involved:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/world/119102-theatre-shooting-witness-tried-to-shut-door-on-gunman?utm_source=website&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=most_read

WeTheArmed.com

Evil Jim · « **Reply #26 on:** July 20, 2012, 07:50:20 pm »

On the radio I head that there were 200 officers and deputies on the scene, along with 50 detectives, 100 FBI agents, and 25 members of the BATFE.

Jim

Adskii · « **Reply #27 on:** July 20, 2012, 08:52:05 pm »

This was a disaster. We train and plan for all other sorts of disasters and scenarios, why not crazy people? What advice could we give our children, our friends, our loved ones in a situation like that? The collective knowledge available here is immense, enthusiasts, LEO, military, and those of us who just look and drool...

If you were to teach a prep course on surviving a shooting, what would it include? Not necessarily for this shooting, a general guide. Most people don't have our experience, our training, or our common sense.

Remember this is for the unarmed masses, because if everyone were armed then this could not happen.

Coronach · « **Reply #28 on:** July 20, 2012, 09:31:26 pm »

A primer for the unarmed masses? Arm yourself.

Sorry, but that's about it. Everything else is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. When you have a guy burst in with a gun on a crowded place with unarmed people, lots of people are going to die. The death will continue until he gets tired of it, runs out of ammo, or someone effectively confronts him.

If you're close to him, tackle him to the ground and turn his skull into mush. Don't stop pounding him until he stops gurgling or until your arms no longer work. If you're not close, run like a motherf*****, taking the people for whom you are responsible with you.

There's really nothing more complex than that. This whole cower and look small thing doesn't work in open venues like this- a moving target is harder to hit than a fetal one. Be moving. If you're hit, keep moving. If you have to ask yourself if you're too hurt to continue, you're not. That applies if you're movng toward the sound of the gunshots or away. Pick a course of action, and see it through until there is no more threat or the world goes black.

Mike

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

cpaspr · « **Reply #29 on:** July 20, 2012, 09:32:34 pm »

Quote from: Adskii on July 20, 2012, 08:52:05 pm

If you were to teach a prep course on surviving a shooting, what would it include? Not necessarily for this shooting, a general guide. Most people don't have our experience, our training, or our common sense.

Remember this is for the unarmed masses, because if everyone were armed then this could not happen.

Train them, and allow them to be armed. Then these things won't happen, at least not to this degree.

Langenator · « **Reply #30 on:** July 20, 2012, 10:14:25 pm »

Various news stories describe the shooter as being originally from California - San Diego, specifically, so it's highly likely he didn't grow up around guns. (There's an interesting research angle - in mass shootings, how many, if any, of the shooters, grew up around guns, and to what extent?)

He's described as being extremely intelligent and a good student, graduating from Cal-Riverside with honors (neuroscience degree) and described as being near the top of his class in a Ph.D. neuropsychology program at Univ. of Colorado-Denver, although he was apparantly in the process of withdrawing from the program for unknown reasons.

Also, the booby traps in his apartment are described as being quite sophisticated, on top of his well planned and executed mass murder.

I do find it ironic that he apparently wasn't smart enough to price shop for his weapons, it being reported that he purchased two of them from two separate Gander Mountain stores.

But for whatever reason, he at some point decided, "fluff it, I want to kill a whole bunch of people," then meticulously planned, prepared, and carried out his attack without drawing any attention at all until he opened that theater door.

Doug Wojtowicz · « **Reply #31 on:** July 20, 2012, 11:04:07 pm »

Quote from: huey148 on July 20, 2012, 01:41:52 pm

What I keep waiting for is somebody to link the entire Bain name nonsense into the mix...then I will point at the mass media and say "you created this"...good luck that actually happening...

Really... a homonymed villain had something to do with this?

Limbaugh was brought up in an earlier post, and considering that Bane the character predated Mitt Romney in politics by... let's call it at least five years, and the word bane preceded the damn company...

Besides, the gunman already claimed to be "the Joker."

Coronach · « **Reply #32 on:** July 20, 2012, 11:05:16 pm »

Quote

I do find it ironic that he apparently wasn't smart enough to price shop for his weapons, it being reported that he purchased two of them from two separate Gander Mountain stores.

Wow, that's cop humor right there.

Heck, that might be prime evidence that this was to be a suicide mission.

Mike

booksmart · « **Reply #33 on:** July 20, 2012, 11:25:37 pm »

To quote a great line in The Dark Knight: "Some men just want to see the world burn."

FMJ · « **Reply #34 on:** July 20, 2012, 11:51:16 pm »

http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html

Here's an op-ed.

It reminds me of Matt Bracken's book. That's all. You never know.

Sarge · « **Reply #35 on:** July 20, 2012, 11:55:23 pm »

Quote

If you were to teach a prep course on surviving a shooting, what would it include? Not necessarily for this shooting, a general guide. Most people don't have our experience, our training, or our common sense.

I think I would start with this.

Got this from these guys, no affiliation just total agreement http://www.rangerup.com/brass.html

Evil Jim · « **Reply #36 on:** July 21, 2012, 12:00:38 am »

Quote from: FMJ on July 20, 2012, 11:51:16 pm

http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html

Here's an op-ed.

It reminds me of Matt Bracken's book. That's all. You never know.

I dont see $20K in equipment... not even close.
And yea, Brackens book crossed my mind also.

Jim

Raptor · « **Reply #37 on:** July 21, 2012, 01:08:53 am »

Quote from: FMJ on July 20, 2012, 11:51:16 pm

http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html

Here's an op-ed.

It reminds me of Matt Bracken's book. That's all. You never know.

Eh, nothing he bought strikes me as terribly exotic. Most of it you can buy at a surplus store or on the internet. And $20k in gear? If he spent that much, dude got ripped off big time. And that ope-ed writer struck me as suffering from a touch of raving-foam-at-the-mouth-itus.

mephisto · « **Reply #38 on:** July 21, 2012, 01:19:51 am »

Quote

http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html

Tripe.

In 2010 222.7 million people went to the movies at least once in 2010 (in the US and Canada). If those numbers are true to 2012 you have an 0.0000054% chance of being killed in a mass shooting at a theater.

Il Rob · « **Reply #39 on:** July 21, 2012, 01:37:39 am »

Robert Farago over at the Truth About Guns is reporting the shooter used an S&W M&P 15, a Remington 870, a .40 Glock and another Glock in an undetermined caliber. That's $2000 in guns at least, and possibly more like $3000. Reports also state he used a 100 round drum, $120 for the knockoffs, $300 for a Beta C-mag. 9News out of Denver is reporting he purchased 6000 rounds of ammunition. Presuming this was not .22LR, and a mix of .40 S&W and 5.56, plus some 12 gauge buck, would 25 cents a round be a reasonable (and probably low) assumption? There's another $1500. They also have a witness claiming to see the shooter having an optic installed at Gander Mtn. Could be anywhere from $50 to sky's the limit on that one. All of this purchased in the last 2 months. Reports are the shooter was not working. And that's just the firepower. If reports about body armor are correct, that would be another several hundred (I'm a bit skeptical on the body armor claim; I bet it turns out to be airsoft stuff.)

I'm not willing to go out on the false flag limb myself (and I really liked Bracken's books). I think paranoid schizophrenia is the most likely answer. But still, in the coming weeks, if some intrepid reporter could tell me where he got the money to buy all of these things, that would be great.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/robert-farago/aurora-batman-shooterweapons-ided-james-holmes/

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/robert-farago/batman-massacres-100-round-drum-mag-not-shown-renews-call-for-hi-cap-mag-ban/

http://www.9news.com/news/article/278707/339/70-wounded-12-dead-in-horrific-theater-shooting

Rob

only1asterisk · « **Reply #40 on:** July 21, 2012, 02:51:32 am »

Quote from: Il Rob on July 21, 2012, 01:37:39 am

But still, in the coming weeks, if some intrepid reporter could tell me where he got the money to buy all of these things, that would be great.
Rob

They hand out credit card to college kids like candy.

Panhead Bill · « **Reply #41 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:33:56 am »

Quote from: only1asterisk on July 21, 2012, 02:51:32 am

They hand out credit card to college kids like candy.

Valid point - and if mom and dad are helping him out while he's going through grad school, who's to say they couldn't have co-signed on those credit cards - a likely scenario, at least can explain how he could afford the gear.

And like has been said already, none of the weapons and gear he reportedly had on him would be that hard to get (unless you're in CA), and for the stuff that's less than legal (ie smoke canisters, tear gas, or whatever it turns out to be), if you ask around in the right (or wrong) places, it can be acquired - all it takes is $$. Heck, I've had clients (felons no less) hint at offering to sell me class III items, body armor, and suggest they had old military ordinance. And that's in CA, where darn near everything is illegal.

These conspiracy theories suggesting govt involvement are just nuts and plain stupid, although it makes for ratings and entertainment.

Bill

Viking · « **Reply #42 on:** July 21, 2012, 04:27:49 am »

Quote from: Panhead Bill on July 21, 2012, 03:33:56 am

These conspiracy theories suggesting govt involvement are just nuts and plain stupid, although it makes for ratings and entertainment.

Bill

If someone had suggested a few years ago that the US government would get involved in smuggling guns to Mexican drug cartels, in an effort to force on tougher gun control laws, I bet most people would've called BS on that. The evil that some people will go to to get it done their way is staggering.

nukehayes · « **Reply #43 on:** July 21, 2012, 04:43:55 am »

I patiently await the arraignment on Monday morning for this scumbag and the following prosecution that might shed some light on the rest of this atrocity. I am sickened by the call for more gun control due to this. Why can't people understand the simple grade school logic that disarming the law abiding guys won't stop this from happening in the future?

nukehayes · « **Reply #44 on:** July 21, 2012, 04:49:47 am »

My wife brought up a nice suggestion. Wouldn't it be nice if Christian Bale and all the cast from this Batman movie visit with the families and those in the hospital to help deal with the traumatic images they will forever connect with Batman. Especially for the children, they really need a real life hero right now.

Panhead Bill · « **Reply #45 on:** July 21, 2012, 05:20:31 am »

Quote from: Viking on July 21, 2012, 04:27:49 am

If someone had suggested a few years ago that the US government would get involved in smuggling guns to Mexican drug cartels, in an effort to force on tougher gun control laws, I bet most people would've called BS on that. The evil that some people will go to to get it done their way is staggering.

Touché

scarville · « **Reply #46 on:** July 21, 2012, 06:25:02 am »

Quote from: Viking on July 21, 2012, 04:27:49 am

If someone had suggested a few years ago that the US government would get involved in smuggling guns to Mexican drug cartels, in an effort to force on tougher gun control laws, I bet most people would've called BS on that. The evil that some people will go to to get it done their way is staggering.

Governments have been using clandestine operations for centuries. I'm an American and don't know anything about the rest of the world

so I'll stick to the US. Off the top of my head there was the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, Human Radiation Experiments, Operation Paperclip, Project SHAD, Gulf of Tonkin Incident, Watergate and Iran-Contra.

Coronach · « **Reply #47 on:** July 21, 2012, 11:02:52 am »

The claims of false flag / clandestine ops / MKUltra BS are just that, BS, unless someone develops some information that supports it. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and "the timing is suspicious" and "how did he afford all that gear?" don't even approach passing muster. If something real comes out, sound off, but until then you are going to look like a fake-moon-landing idiot and make the rest of us look like one by extension/association. Stop it. We have problems enough.

The timing is convenient? The timing is ALWAYS convenient. If we're doing well politically, the atrocity blunts our offensive. If we're doing poorly, the shooting helps the antis seal the deal on new gun control. If we're at a crossroads, which we are now, the massacre is timed to influence the critical election. It's ALWAYS a bad time for a tragedy, and it's always suspicious to someone.

As to how he afforded the gear, it's called a credit card. Grad students make some money, many have tuition paid via grant or loan, and the rest can be put on plastic, especially if you have no plans to pay it off. When I was in college, I had a credit card with a $8k limit, with no cosigner. He almost certainly bought the stuff on credit, get over it.

Mike

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

Il Rob · « **Reply #48 on:** July 21, 2012, 11:32:08 am »

They hand out credit card to college kids like candy

Is that still true? I know it was that way when I was in college in the mid 90's, but credit seems tighter now than it was then. More likely, I think, that he used student loans and grants to pay for it. I guess it's easier to buy on credit when you don't intend to pay it back.

Rob

ArfinGreebly · « **Reply #49 on:** July 21, 2012, 11:52:38 am »

Quote from: Viking on July 21, 2012, 04:27:49 am

If someone had suggested a few years ago that the US government would get involved in smuggling guns to Mexican drug cartels, in an effort to force on tougher gun control laws, I bet most people would've called BS on that. The evil that some people will go to to get it done their way is staggering.

You left out MK-ULTRA.

I worked -- some time afterwards -- with some of the people responsible for uncovering that.

I am not willing to exclude the possibility that this was a programmed event.