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Author Topic: Colorado Shooting  (Read 23177 times)

Feud

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Re: Colorado Shooting
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2012, 11:54:46 am »
I kinda wish I didn't start this thread now...

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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #51 on: July 21, 2012, 12:00:02 pm »
    How about "except for the fact that it never worked and was ultimately cancelled because it was a huge waste of time"?
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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #52 on: July 21, 2012, 12:10:17 pm »
    I kinda wish I didn't start this thread now...

    It doesn't matter. The thread was bound to exist and develop along similar lines, regardless of who happened to start it.
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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #53 on: July 21, 2012, 02:54:35 pm »
    I kinda wish I didn't start this thread now...

    The Reality is, Evil has always existed, and will continue to.
     History proves over and over and again, one cannot eradicate Evil, by laws of Church or State.

    So this thread is pertinent.

    -One learns from History.
    This tragedy is another chapter of Live Lessons one can learn from.
    While one may not have their "internet buddies" , or guns, or anything else when Evil shows up, they will have their brain.

    Learn from those died, were injured, and survived, what went wrong, and what they did right. Oh, and take note, sometimes it was nothing more than Lady Luck showing up for those that survived, whether injured or not.

    alone



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    PvtPyle

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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #54 on: July 21, 2012, 03:01:26 pm »
    Not to downplay the efforts and successes of the police and bomb squad guys, but the media keeps saying how sophisticated these devices were. Bull crap! Trip wires are one of the oldest and most simplistic ways to initiate a device. Had this guy gone to home depot and bought a do it yourself home alarm and back up battery his could have made it impossible for them to get into the apt. And ensured a good detonation. Collapsible circuits, motion detectors, door and window sensors.... I could go on and on and I'm not even a bomb tech! They bomb techs did a great job, but stop telling everyone how cleaver this guy was and how he made such a complicated device. In a round about way you are giving this guy some good publicity. There is nothing good, cleaver or smart about this pos.

    I do find it curious though that he wore all this armor, then surrendered to the cops. He then told them about the bombs and then stopped talking. There are a lot of inconsistent behaviors with the guy. It opens a lot more questions than they answer.
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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #55 on: July 21, 2012, 03:16:31 pm »
    I do find it curious though that he wore all this armor, then surrendered to the cops. He then told them about the bombs and then stopped talking. There are a lot of inconsistent behaviors with the guy. It opens a lot more questions than they answer.

    Schizophrenia pops into my mind, and you know this is going to lead to more conspiracy theorists claiming that this guy was Manchurian-Candidat-ed into this.
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    alone

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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #56 on: July 21, 2012, 03:18:01 pm »
    Well,
    Sometimes Evil is just crazier than a road tick...

    alone
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    Coronach

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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #57 on: July 21, 2012, 04:08:37 pm »
    Yeah, PvtPyle. The media is borderline useful at reporting facts. The average reporter or anchorman is 100% useless at evaluating those facts. Just because some well-manicured journalism major manages to repeat on camera that "ZOMG it is, like, sooooooo sophisticated, OMG ohnoes" doesn't make it so.

    The facts that they are repeating indicate that these devices are more complex than your average pipe bomb. They are also probably a PITA to disarm, in part because they are more complex than your average pipe bomb, but also because they are probably amateurish and therefor unpredictable.

    Bomb squad jobs? Yeah, no freakin' way.

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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #58 on: July 21, 2012, 04:19:05 pm »
    As for how he afforded it, one answer could be school loans and scholarships. Some like the Pell Grant are nothing more than a check made out to the student for whatever they feel the need for. And if he was withdrawing, then most schools would have refunded the money and it would go directly to him. Getting funded for the equipment he used is not really that hard considering. Now if he had an AT4 or an M60 or something along those lines, I would argue that someone was backing him or providing support. A bullet proof vest, if it was an actual bullet proof best and not just a tactical vest, and a riot style helmet can be bought at some Army surplus store.
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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #59 on: July 21, 2012, 04:43:14 pm »
    I wonder if during the interrogation of this guy he says  that one of the  reason he chose this place was it was a gun free zone would that info ever see the light of day.
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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #60 on: July 21, 2012, 05:06:16 pm »
    I see kevlar patrol style soft vests at pawn shops and flea markets quite often. My agency never takes up our old ones and I have three lying in the closet and a spare in my patrol vehicle. My point is that there are plenty out there and we've arrested several bad guys who were wearing them over the past few years.

    My take is that the guy is simply a sick twisted freak; I fail to see or even remotely suspect a nefarious government plot. The fact that anyone would consider that concerns me for the conspiracy theorists' mental health.

    Why did he do it and what were his motives? I could care less
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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #61 on: July 21, 2012, 05:08:20 pm »
    So they have found a bunch of tripwire boobytraps in his apartment.  I thought it may have just been him bluffing, but apparently they are there.

    This guy is clearly insane.  It isn't like he bought a gun and started robbing for cash, or bought a gun and killed a woman he was mad at, or any of the other reasons the antis say it is too easy to buy a gun.  He was crazy, and wanted to hurt people, and was smart enough to build booby-traps.

    With our without access to firearms this nutball would have killed a LOT of innocent people.  Walk into a crowded theater and throw some molotov cocktails.  Simply slip a bomb under your seat and walk out.  Take the same garden sprayer used to kill the aphids on your prize roses, fill it with fuel and put a sparking device at the nozzle and go out with a flame thrower.

    What I waiting for is to see if there were any early warning signs that were ignored the way we saw with Virginia Tech's Cho or the Fort Hood shooter.

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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #62 on: July 21, 2012, 06:00:52 pm »
    Not to downplay the efforts and successes of the police and bomb squad guys, but the media keeps saying how sophisticated these devices were. Bull crap! Trip wires are one of the oldest and most simplistic ways to initiate a device. Had this guy gone to home depot and bought a do it yourself home alarm and back up battery his could have made it impossible for them to get into the apt. And ensured a good detonation. Collapsible circuits, motion detectors, door and window sensors.... I could go on and on and I'm not even a bomb tech! They bomb techs did a great job, but stop telling everyone how cleaver this guy was and how he made such a complicated device. In a round about way you are giving this guy some good publicity. There is nothing good, cleaver or smart about this pos.

    I do find it curious though that he wore all this armor, then surrendered to the cops. He then told them about the bombs and then stopped talking. There are a lot of inconsistent behaviors with the guy. It opens a lot more questions than they answer.

    I dunno....perhaps he was unusually clever in how he put together simple trip wires and stuff.
    The EOD guys have been taking their precious time clearing the apartment and I guess they might suggest that they don't really know how clever he really was until they get completly through disarming everything.....As for the media remember, these guys don't know the difference between a clip and a magazine ..... ::)
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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #63 on: July 21, 2012, 06:44:27 pm »
    We all need to be stalwart in the face of oncoming flood of attacks against our god given freedom.
    The message that freedom and liberty are worth it. Even with the murders like this must ring loud in our nation again.

    Daylight

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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #64 on: July 21, 2012, 06:47:00 pm »
    Because the building(s) were evacuated, the threat the devices pose is only to to the people securing and disarming them.  Take your time.  Be sure.  Go home after your shift. 

    I don't care if the device is something from Road Runner or the Manhattan Project:  the newsies are going to call it "sophisticated," just like they will call FMJ "armor piercing," more than one building on property becomes a "compound," and more than one of something is a "stockpile." 

    Listening to the news reminds me of Rumsfeld's known, known unknown, and unknown unknown. 
    Washington"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  But, in practice, there is. "
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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #65 on: July 21, 2012, 06:53:08 pm »
    They hand out credit card to college kids like candy

    Is that still true? I know it was that way when I was in college in the mid 90's, but credit seems tighter now than it was then. More likely, I think, that he used student loans and grants to pay for it. I guess it's easier to buy on credit when you don't intend to pay it back.

    Rob

    They did back in '06-'07 when I started in college. Shooter's about the same age as me, and given the fact that he either graduated or was just about to graduate... yeah, the CC companies were probably throwing cards at him.

    And as far as where'd the money come from; again, personal experience: I had a few thousand bucks saved up even before I got a job. Assuming he either wasn't planning on surviving or else was planning on getting caught, I could see him literally dumping every cent he had into this.
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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #66 on: July 21, 2012, 07:11:13 pm »
    ...the media keeps saying how sophisticated these devices were. Bull crap!

    They may not be sophisticated devices to anyone with a modicum of knowledge, but for the kind person who:

    - Buys their latte in the morning and has only a vague idea about how to make coffee with a perculator and pre-ground Folgers, let alone in a kettle over a campfire.

    -Has a mechanic change the oil on their car and calls AMA to change a flat because they don't know how.

    -Throws out clothing because it is missing a button or has a hole in it and they never learned how to thread a needle.

    -Pays someone to install their TV and DVR because the color coded ports don't make sense to them.

    -Thinks canned goods can only be made in a factory.

    For people like that, and there are many of them out there, seemingly especially in the superficial world of media personalities, particularly among aspiring personalities in minor markets, then anything much more complicated than a firecracker is "sophisticated".
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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #67 on: July 21, 2012, 07:35:23 pm »
    I did see it mentioned in one report (Foxnews, I think) that he left loud music playing in his apartment, loud enough to bother the neighbors and enough to lead one of them to call the cops with a noise complaint.  He also left his front door unlocked.  Luckily the person who discovered that didn't go inside.

    Even if all of the above is accurate, it is still circumstantial, but it does paint the picture that he was hoping to get someone to enter the apartment and blow themselves up.

    Kind of like Columbine - the shooting wasn't supposed to be the main event, but the bombs ended up not going off.
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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #68 on: July 21, 2012, 08:30:00 pm »
    Yes on the last. It doesn't have to be complex in that scenario. A tripwire will work just fine for that. May not be the best method, but it would serve. Luckily he told the arresting officers about the bombs at the apartment, otherwise an officer responding to the noise complaint may well have gotten blown up.

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    ArfinGreebly

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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #69 on: July 21, 2012, 10:22:20 pm »
    How about "except for the fact that it [MK-Ultra] never worked and was ultimately cancelled because it was a huge waste of time"?

    It was "canceled," but not because it was expensive or wasteful.  Rogue-dot-gov didn't suddenly wake up with a conscience one day and decide it was a bad idea.  They were afraid they'd get caught in the post-Nixon sweep.  There were scads of documents that were destroyed -- and not because of anything to do with "cost" or "waste" -- as the various cockroaches scurried for cover.  The only reason we still had some 20,000 docs left with which to beat them over the head was because they mis-filed them.

    There was much of what they attempted that proved to be non-productive and a costly "waste" but it isn't that Mk-Ultra was some screaming success (if it had been, we'd have never known about it), but rather it is that a government agency (or more than one) were completely willing to break laws and violate treaties in those attempts.

    I don't know why it would seem likely that a government that to this day fosters rogue agencies (I mean, for crissake, Fast & Furious?) would completely abandon every single aspect of its pursuit of its mind control objectives.

    There's never been a shortage of end-justifies-the-means thinkers in the alphabet agencies.  Hell, there's no shortage of them in the two Houses, and there's adequate reason to believe the Oval is occupied by such a thinker.

    I don't have any special insight.

    I don't have any special knowledge about this incident.

    But I'm just not convinced that Occam makes a sharp enough razor for this.

    I will freely admit that my default perspective is deeply suspicious of government shenanigans to begin with.

    When you couple that with my complete distrust for coincidence, an event like this isn't going to have me wondering about the "motives" of some sad, unloved, mom's-basement-dwelling, misfit doing a lone gunman shtick.

    There are simply more "so, if that, then, why this?" aspects to this than I can shave off with a visit to Occam the barber.

    Why am I willing to entertain speculation that this could be a false flag event?

    Because -- as stoopid and lame and ineffective as rogue-dot-gov can be -- there always seems to be yet another rogue-dot-gov outfit willing to try yet another covert action in support of yet another justifies-the-means cause.

    And these are people who are "okay with the breakage" (collateral damage) as long as it furthers some objective.

    Hey, it may be something completely innocent.  It may just be that some neuroscience PhD candidate gradually changed from a Dr. Jekyll into a Mr. Hyde unnoticed by all those around whom he worked and studied, borrowed more than ten grand while drawing unemployment, and -- as crazy people so commonly do -- armed and outfitted himself, rigged his apartment with 'splody stuff, dressed like a comic book character, went to the movies to murder a few people -- like you do when you're crazy -- put up pretty much no resistance when the cops showed up, surrendered, confessed, and warned them about the 'splody stuff back at his pad.  Just your standard nut job scenario.

    Now, on the hand, I have a slightly different theory that ties back to the OWS connection, and would account for his mother's utterance that "they've got the right man."

    It will take a little more fleshing out, but it may, in the end, wind up being the most likely arrangement of dominoes.

    That alternative creep show doesn't actually let rogue-dot-gov off the hook either, but instead takes a more deliberately-encouraged-anarchist-butterfly-effect vector.

    Stand by for that a little later.
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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #70 on: July 21, 2012, 10:35:13 pm »
    They may not be sophisticated devices to anyone with a modicum of knowledge, but for the kind person who:

    - Buys their latte in the morning and has only a vague idea about how to make coffee with a perculator and pre-ground Folgers, let alone in a kettle over a campfire.

    -Has a mechanic change the oil on their car and calls AMA to change a flat because they don't know how.

    -Throws out clothing because it is missing a button or has a hole in it and they never learned how to thread a needle.

    -Pays someone to install their TV and DVR because the color coded ports don't make sense to them.

    -Thinks canned goods can only be made in a factory.

    For people like that, and there are many of them out there, seemingly especially in the superficial world of media personalities, particularly among aspiring personalities in minor markets, then anything much more complicated than a firecracker is "sophisticated".
    SeanP...

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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #71 on: July 21, 2012, 10:52:25 pm »
    And for those with conspiracy theorist in them.
    I'm going out on a limb.
    It was a setup.
    Plain and simple.
    The AG is in deep crap.
    The Obama Admin is in deep crap.
    The BATF and frickin' E is in deep crap.
    They needed a distraction.
    Yeah.
    Bet this guy is dead within 6 months of a suicide, cancer, disease, or something.
    Ok...conspiracy theory mode off.

    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

    Raptor

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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #72 on: July 21, 2012, 11:03:55 pm »
    They may not be sophisticated devices to anyone with a modicum of knowledge, but for the kind person who:

    - Buys their latte in the morning and has only a vague idea about how to make coffee with a perculator and pre-ground Folgers, let alone in a kettle over a campfire.

    -Has a mechanic change the oil on their car and calls AMA to change a flat because they don't know how.

    -Throws out clothing because it is missing a button or has a hole in it and they never learned how to thread a needle.

    -Pays someone to install their TV and DVR because the color coded ports don't make sense to them.

    -Thinks canned goods can only be made in a factory.

    For people like that, and there are many of them out there, seemingly especially in the superficial world of media personalities, particularly among aspiring personalities in minor markets, then anything much more complicated than a firecracker is "sophisticated".

    Sadly, I think you've just accurately described about 90% of my customer base.

    And while my initial gut/knee-jerk reaction to this is "lone whack job decided to kill some folks for the sheer hell of it," some small part of my mind is in at least partial agreement with Gunnguy. From what I've been able to gather, this guy's behavior was extremely inconsistent, to the point where it seems extreme even for schizophrenia. If this dude conveniently dies either before or shortly after trial - or if he tries to make a plea deal, then I'd probably say yeah, definite .gov involvement. Dunno if you could call it a straight setup, but definitely some .gov involvement.
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    Gunnguy

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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #73 on: July 21, 2012, 11:41:01 pm »
    Great shades of "24"!

     :panic
    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

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    Re: Colorado Shooting
    « Reply #74 on: July 21, 2012, 11:46:40 pm »
    As usual, the vultures were just waiting to chime in:

    url=http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/07/20/It-Begins-ABC-Ross-Stephanolpoulos-Point-to-Tea-Party-for-Dark-Knight-Shooting]http://
    What a pathetic lot of trolls.

    Prayers for all those involved in this.

    Is it not funny that when this kicks off, the first place this fish wrapper failure looks is in the tea party rolls. And his apology, give me a break.   :facepalm
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