Ok it's official, Senate President John Morse and state Sen. Angela Giron are toast (ousted). This is a great victory for us who support the 2nd amendment (everyone here  ), but this post isn't on gun politics, it is on American politics in general. I am curious of what our Libertarian and constitutionalist base here at WTA think of more direct democracy in American politics. When we first started off, we were a democratic republic and the forefathers went so far as to mention things like:

Benjamin Franklin: When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Papers: We are a Republican Government, Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of democracy...it has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity.

There was a great fear of the "tyranny of the majority" back then. Do not get me wrong I'm glad that the senators mentioned previously were ousted (I don't think of it so much on the grounds of direct democracy but on the grounds of violating the constitution; 2A). But in places like California where the majority can vote on propositions and it is closer to a direct democracy, things can and have gone wrong. Please, feel free to share your opinions on the future and place of "direct democracy" in America because I think we have not seen the last of it (in fact if trends continue, we will probably see more of it).

*ramble over*

The problem is that power is too centralized at both the state and federal levels.  I have almost zero in common with the average resident of NYC or the urban parts of California.   When people in those areas start making laws that are diametrically opposed to what people in other parts of the country stand for, we have a problem.

On a smaller scale, the same issue happens at the state level.   Urban centers dominate the politics and end up destroying an entire state instead of just the city.  Ideally, I would like to see most things managed at the county level or below.

Democracy is four wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.

I see recalling elected officials as being a bit different from other things you might get with a majority rule.

The consent of the governed is what all our ideas of a just government are predicated on, and I personally feel that an important aspect of any consenting action is that the consenting parties must be free to withdraw consent at any time.

The idea that once politicians manage to get elected they should be free from accountability until the end of their term doesn't sit easy with me.

I agree with accountability on the part of the elected, I would hate for a mob to attempt to throw out someone doing something that was "unpopular" but in the country's best interest. Basically a reverse of the senator thing....when things can go "wrong".

I see recalling elected officials as being a bit different from other things you might get with a majority rule.

The consent of the governed is what all our ideas of a just government are predicated on, and I personally feel that an important aspect of any consenting action is that the consenting parties must be free to withdraw consent at any time.

The idea that once politicians manage to get elected they should be free from accountability until the end of their term doesn't sit easy with me.

I'd counter that with that what we have has been formed by social and political contract, and certainty of contract requires that parties be bound to the agreement unless all parties agree to terminate.  Unilateral withdrawal is generally either not allowed or comes with some form of penalty.  I see a fair election as a second contract within the larger socially constructed whole, by participating in it, and knowing that your candidate may win, you tacitly agree to respect the outcome should you lose.

(You already know this next part, but I'll repeat it anyway.)

I don't think politicians should be free of accountability.  But I think that accountability should be framed by statute, so that everyone knows from the get go exactly what is and what isn't acceptable.  And aside from gross misconduct or criminal activity, I generally think that recalls shouldn't be used.  It's too close to a political mob action for my taste.

On a similar note, I tend to dislike both ballot initiatives and voter referendums.  I don't pay my elected officials to pass the buck back to me, or to dodge the hard questions.

But that's just me.

In my opinion, the legislators and governor of Colorado are guilty of both in this case.

It seems that a majority of voters in Colorado agree, or see recalls as also acceptable for general rascality.

Generally speaking, I think the form of government given to us in 1787 was the best.  Unfortunately that no longer exists.  I believe it was Aldo Leopold who said, "The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to keep all the parts.".   I concur.  Various experiments among the states with a more direct form of democracy ( read initiative and referendum ) have been a very mixed bag with the trend being toward the negative side of that particular equation.   Without an educated, informed and involved populace the whole idea of effective government goes out the window.

The fact that millions of people who refuse to miss an episode of The Kardashians, Honey BooBoo, Jersey Shore or the MTV Music Awards also get to decide who and what to vote for in our elections doesn't fill me with confidence in our future.

^Truth. So I suppose the big question is what is killing our country more quickly? Apathy? Or the strong gravitation people have towards relying on the government to solve all of societies problems when in fact, it only creates more problems?

^Truth. So I suppose the big question is what is killing our country more quickly? Apathy? Or the strong gravitation people have towards relying on the government to solve all of societies problems when in fact, it only creates more problems?

You sir, have just opened an enormous can of worms.       The short answer to your question is the lack of an intellectually and morally rigorous educational system.   To some degree America ( and by extension, Americans ) are victims of our own success.  We had the incredible good fortune to be born in the one country on earth whose foundational principle was government by consent of the governed.  More than any other thing, that was responsible for our unprecedented development as young nation and our ability to take our place as an equal among the great nations of the world.   Our people became learned, prosperous and generally successful beyond our wildest dreams.   We looked upon America and for the most part saw that it was good.  And then we took our eye off the ball.

We allowed ourselves the luxury of complacency.  The offspring of complacency is indifference and the offspring of indifference is ignorance and the offspring of ignorance is arrogance.   And that is where we find ourselves today.  Too ignorant to comprehend the true nature of our situation and too arrogant to admit it.    'Nuff said .   .     .        .           

Thanks.   

I vote for less politics. Period.