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Author Topic: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)  (Read 5190 times)

xsquidgator

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http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081230/D95D896O0.html

Another mixed-bag story.  I like it because some San Francisco-area liberals are getting a strong dose of failed liberal .gov policy.  And yes I know, they aren't all Obama-voting liberals, I feel terrible for the normal people who live there and are caught up in this.  What I don't like and what makes me just about apoplectic is the interference and just about total destruction of the normal middle-class way of life for all the people who bought homes there, and who get screwed over by the heavy hand of government forcing them to live among the kind of thing they were trying to escape. In a fair world the politicians who forced Section 8 housing on the local inhabitants would be forced to live with Section 8 housing themselves, and would have to pay a bill for the lost property values due to section 8 housing moving into an area.   :cuss
I would love to hear the response of our founding fathers of this country to this mess, especially if it were to happen in their neighborhoods.

Quote
Influx of black renters raises tension in Bay Area

By PAUL ELIAS

ANTIOCH, Calif. (AP) - As more and more black renters began moving into this mostly white San Francisco Bay Area suburb a few years ago, neighbors started complaining about loud parties, mean pit bulls, blaring car radios, prostitution, drug dealing and muggings of schoolchildren.

In 2006, as the influx reached its peak, the police department formed a special crime-fighting unit to deal with the complaints, and authorities began cracking down on tenants in federally subsidized housing.

Now that police unit is the focus of lawsuits by black families who allege the city of 100,000 is orchestrating a campaign to drive them out.

"A lot of people are moving out here looking for a better place to live," said Karen Coleman, a mother of three who came here five years ago from a blighted neighborhood in nearby Pittsburg. "We are trying to raise our kids like everyone else. But they don't want us here."

City officials deny the allegations in the lawsuits, which were filed last spring and seek unspecified damages.

Across the country, similar tensions have simmered when federally subsidized renters escaped run-down housing projects and violent neighborhoods by moving to nicer communities in suburban Washington, Chicago and Los Angeles.

But the friction in Antioch is "hotter than elsewhere," said U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development spokesman Larry Bush.

An increasing number of poor families receiving federal rental assistance have been moving here in recent years, partly because of the housing crisis.

A growing number of landlords were seeking a guaranteed source of revenue in a city hard-hit by foreclosures. They began offering their Antioch homes to low-income tenants in the HUD Section 8 housing program, which pays about two-thirds of every tenant's rent.

Between 2000 and 2007, Antioch's black population nearly doubled from 8,824 to 16,316. And the number of Antioch renters receiving federal subsidies climbed almost 50 percent between 2003 and 2007 to 1,582, the majority of them black.

Longtime homeowners complained that the new arrivals brought crime and other troubles. In 2006, violent crime in Antioch shot up about 19 percent from the year before, while property crime went down slightly.

"In some neighborhoods, it was complete madness," said longtime resident David Gilbert, a black retiree who organized the United Citizens of Better Neighborhoods watch group. "They were under siege."

So the Antioch police in mid-2006 created the Community Action Team, which focused on complaints of trouble at low-income renters' homes.

Police sent 315 complaints about subsidized tenants to the Contra Costa Housing Authority, which manages the federal program in the city, and urged the agency to evict many of them for lease violations such as drug use or gun possession. Lawyers for the tenants said 70 percent of the eviction recommendations were aimed at black renters. The housing authority turned down most of the requests.

Coleman said the police, after a complaint from a neighbor, showed up at her house one morning in 2007 to check on her husband, who was on parole for drunken driving. She said they searched the house and returned twice more that summer to try to find out whether the couple had violated any terms of their lease that could lead to eviction.

The Colemans were also slapped with a restraining order after a neighbor accused them of "continually harassing and threatening their family," according to court papers. The Colemans said a judge later rescinded the order.

Coleman and four other families are suing Antioch, accusing police of engaging in racial discrimination and conducting illegal searches without warrants. They have asked a federal judge to make their suit a class-action on behalf of hundreds of other black renters. Another family has filed a lawsuit accusing the city's leaders of waging a campaign of harassment to drive them out.

Police referred questions to the city attorney's office.

City Attorney Lynn Tracy Nerland denied any discrimination on the part of police and said officers were responding to crime reports in troubled neighborhoods when they discovered that a large number of the troublemakers were receiving federal subsidies.

"They are responding to real problems," Nerland said.

Joseph Villarreal, the housing authority chief, said the problems in Antioch mirror tensions seen nationally when poor renters move into neighborhoods they can afford only with government help.

"One of the goals of the programs is to de-concentrate poverty," Villarreal said. "There are just some people who don't want to spend public money that way."

Tensions like those afflicting Antioch have drawn scholars and law enforcement officials to debate whether crime follows subsidized renters out of the tenements to the suburbs.

Susan Popkin, a researcher at the nonprofit Urban Institute, said she does not believe that is the case. But the tensions, she said, are real.

"That can be a recipe for anxiety," she said. "It can really change the demographics of a neighborhood."

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    Sea Dog

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #1 on: December 31, 2008, 03:05:32 pm »
    I have a problem with the policy that uses housing as a tool to ban guns or behavior. In my mind, housing should not be contingent upon giving up one's rights. If the renters damage the place or fail to pay the rent, yes, by all means, evict them. Owning a gun or using drugs is not grounds for eviction. Just my opinion.
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    Gunsmom

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #2 on: December 31, 2008, 05:09:26 pm »
    People will continue to be surprised by negative outcomes to "wonderful ideas" like this as long as there is failure to recognize the fact that the reason some folks are in poverty is because they continue to make the same poor choices and bad decisions.

    And, from my POV, people of all races and ethnic groups are capable of making either good or poor choices and decisions.

    Sea Dog

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #3 on: December 31, 2008, 05:44:38 pm »
    People will continue to be surprised by negative outcomes to "wonderful ideas" like this as long as there is failure to recognize the fact that the reason some folks are in poverty is because they continue to make the same poor choices and bad decisions.

    And, from my POV, people of all races and ethnic groups are capable of making either good or poor choices and decisions.

    Agree. Government rewards for the stated continued behavior doesn't help either. Of course, if the Democrats didn't keep people in poverty they couldn't pander to them at election time. Sometimes I really think the best intentions are intended to come up short.
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    armoredman

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #4 on: December 31, 2008, 06:03:30 pm »
    It's always the race card, even if the charges are true.

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #5 on: December 31, 2008, 11:37:05 pm »
    Facts are usually secondary in liberal causes.
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    stephendutton

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #6 on: January 01, 2009, 05:26:29 am »
    The article quotes a mother of three complaining that moved away from a blighted area (I take this to mean high crime) that her family, and others, aren't wanted in their new area.
    Could this be because the high rate of her old neighbourhood was caused by the very inhabitants who are now moving to new places and taking their criminal habits with them?
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    xsquidgator

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #7 on: January 01, 2009, 09:04:48 am »
    The article quotes a mother of three complaining that moved away from a blighted area (I take this to mean high crime) that her family, and others, aren't wanted in their new area.
    Could this be because the high rate of her old neighbourhood was caused by the very inhabitants who are now moving to new places and taking their criminal habits with them?

    I think so.  And "blight" isn't just crime, it's people who don't know how "normal" civilized adults live and behave.  Even if there's not outright crime, who wants a bunch of 20-something guys with wifebeater tshirts, tats, and their pants hanging down around their knees sitting outside in your neighborhood, drinking stuff out of brown paper bags and listening to terribly loud rap and other "music"?  Part of why someone would pay 300k up to a couple times that for a house in a nice middle class neighborhood is so that you DON'T have to have that kind of thing around your house and your children.  Our neighborhood has a watered-down version of this section8 kind of problem, that of investment buyers who bought houses during the boom and now they're renting them out to local college students so that at least the house will generate some income while they desperately try to unload it.  Same thing though, you have, to be un-PC, a bunch of booger eaters who are suddenly living in a "nice" place that's way above what they can really afford, and frankly they don't have any idea of how civilized adults behave (that's why I called them booger eaters).

    I don't mean to be unsympathetic, I was once an irresponsible college student too.  But at least I lived in the student ghetto part of town and so the only people we bothered with hooting, hollering, and public drunkeness were other college students.  These kids (a number of them live on our street) aren't bad people, but I can't wait for them to leave.  They've gotten a few nastygrams from the HOA for leaving underwear and trash in their yard, for not keeping the place up, etc. and actually this year's crop is responding better to it, they actually made an effort to clean the place up and we didn't have any repeats last night of their raucous July 4th party (thank God) where we had to call the police on them.  It's not a racial thing, I don't want people living like that in my neighborhood.  None of us paid big bucks for our houses to live near that, and if crude and uncivilized behavior persists, all of our houses are going to be worth a hell of a lot less than that if these people drag down the neighborhood.  Thank goodness these are just some college students instead of section 8 housing, because that means we have a hope of eventually getting them out of here and getting a normal middle class family back in that spec-house.  I'd lose my mind if that house was full of section 8 people pulling the race card.

    Buckeye Redneck

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #8 on: January 01, 2009, 10:29:22 am »
    Well, if nothing else good comes of the impeding economic doom of our bloated .gov, at least these leaches will be forced to do something productive or starve.
    Yut

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #9 on: January 01, 2009, 11:39:28 am »
    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081230/D95D896O0.html
    Police sent 315 complaints about subsidized tenants to the Contra Costa Housing Authority, which manages the federal program in the city, and urged the agency to evict many of them for lease violations such as drug use or gun possession.

    ...but...but...but.... These things are against the law. You mean you cannot stop all undesirable behavior by passing laws? You can't enforce universal conformity by passing laws?

    These things are not race issues but rather cultural issues. They must be worked out at the interpersonal level. It is simplistic to think that laws will enforce cultural values that are not universally accepted. The best solution is to separate cultures that cannot agree on which values should be universally accepted.  I realize that's segregation. I also realize we had less of these problems before forced integration.

    xsquidgator

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #10 on: January 01, 2009, 11:50:07 am »
    ...but...but...but.... These things are against the law. You mean you cannot stop all undesirable behavior by passing laws? You can't enforce universal conformity by passing laws?

    These things are not race issues but rather cultural issues. They must be worked out at the interpersonal level. It is simplistic to think that laws will enforce cultural values that are not universally accepted. The best solution is to separate cultures that cannot agree on which values should be universally accepted.  I realize that's segregation. I also realize we had less of these problems before forced integration.


    Well said.

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #11 on: January 01, 2009, 02:00:30 pm »


    These things are not race issues but rather cultural issues. They must be worked out at the interpersonal level. It is simplistic to think that laws will enforce cultural values that are not universally accepted. The best solution is to separate cultures that cannot agree on which values should be universally accepted.  I realize that's segregation. I also realize we had less of these problems before forced integration.


    Very Well said.

    A slightly OT thought, Europe is seeing the extreme version of this with their newly Balkanized Islamic communities..
    Yut

    Elza

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #12 on: January 02, 2009, 02:43:18 am »
    Quote
    "One of the goals of the programs is to de-concentrate poverty," Villarreal said. "There are just some people who don't want to spend public money that way."
    Funny how people find socialism so appealing until it comes to 'their neighborhood'.
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    ridata

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #13 on: January 04, 2009, 01:12:57 am »
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    "One of the goals of the programs is to de-concentrate poverty," Villarreal said.    ...  debate whether crime follows subsidized renters out of the tenements to the suburbs.

    Crime isn't a function of where you live. It doesn't take a scholar to figure this out. Crime is a result of your attitude (most of the time). You don't feel like working for something so you take it. This type of crime is pretty simple. Moving someone with this attitude out of a slum to anywhere else isn't going to do anything for this person.

    In the above paragraph I'm talking about the type of crime in the article. I realize, especially in a recession/depression like this, there are some people who have families who genuinely can't find work and feel forced to steal. I don't think that is the case with most/all of those in the article. I also realize there are other types of crime which don't have to do with a bad attitude, but with a particular action becoming a crime. One that, unlike stealing, isn't (near) universally recognized as such. And example would be having more kids than China says you can, carrying a knife with a blade 1/4" longer than legal or a firearm with a barrel 1/4" shorter than legal. :o
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    xsquidgator

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #14 on: January 04, 2009, 09:16:36 am »
    Crime isn't a function of where you live. It doesn't take a scholar to figure this out. Crime is a result of your attitude (most of the time). You don't feel like working for something so you take it. This type of crime is pretty simple. Moving someone with this attitude out of a slum to anywhere else isn't going to do anything for this person.

    In the above paragraph I'm talking about the type of crime in the article. I realize, especially in a recession/depression like this, there are some people who have families who genuinely can't find work and feel forced to steal. I don't think that is the case with most/all of those in the article. I also realize there are other types of crime which don't have to do with a bad attitude, but with a particular action becoming a crime. One that, unlike stealing, isn't (near) universally recognized as such. And example would be having more kids than China says you can, carrying a knife with a blade 1/4" longer than legal or a firearm with a barrel 1/4" shorter than legal. :o

    A little off the original topic, but I think your point regarding types of crime is important.  There are two types of crimes, when you sort them by the way your just classified them.  "Mala en se" crimes are crimes that are evil in themselves, that 'everyone knows' are crimes, such as theft, rape, and murder.  An ominous development over the last 100-200 years though is the addition of "mala prohibita" crimes, that is, 'wrongs prohibited'.  And they are exactly the kinds of nonsense that most of the people on this board rail against, such as going to prison because a piece of wood on your shotgun is 1/8" too short, or a pistol is too long, a knife blade too long, your WASR-10 has a foreign-made pistol grip instead of a US made one, or isn't deemed to have "sporting" purpose, etc.  Most of us would agree that mala prohibita crimes are a bad idea, because they attempt to make responsibility irrelevant.    [/rant]


    NCLivingBrit

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #15 on: January 04, 2009, 01:06:18 pm »
    When I came to the US my wife lived in a semi-cheap apartment community near the highway for her work.  It was basic, but ok.  The tenants were a diverse lot, everything from professionals pulling in decent money who lived small, lots of us blue collar folks and a scattering of welfare cases and illegals.  Over the four years we lived there, the balance slanted.  All the decent people started to move out because more illegals and welfare cases started to move in.  We got more lowriders and parking lot parties, more trash, more crime and less English spoken.  Before too long the apartment next door to me was lived in by a drug dealer, downstairs was one with nine Nigerian guys in who smoked weed all day and the hallways were dark and trash-filled.  When my wife insisted on walking our dogs at night, I would sneak out to the balcony with my SKS to cover her, in case one of the various posses of drunk young men moved wrong. 

    So we moved.  On the day we moved, the cops came pounding on our door as the "lady" across the hall had vanished leaving nothing behind but some bloodstains.  I told the cop I had never spoken to her (never had, I avoided the new renters like the plague, even the ones that had a little English) and we were moving out to leave people like the other tenants and their crap behind.

    Our new apartment is considerably more expensive, gated and much nicer.  The community empties out during the day as people actually have jobs to go to.  We have community events, holiday parties stuff like that....... And they built f***ing section 8 housing RIGHT NEXT DOOR, about six months ago.  Crime is going up.  Our fence has been broken through in several places so the same damn human garbage who ruined my last place to live can come in here and steal, use our facilities and loiter around.  Worse yet, some genius tagged the section 8 housing onto an assisted living facility a developer just put in, so now you have vulnerable seniors living a hundred feet from yet another section 8 cesspool.

    We're moving again, breaking our lease and heading out into the countryside onto a couple of acres.  If they follow me this time, they're going to regret it.

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #16 on: January 04, 2009, 02:30:26 pm »
    .... using drugs is not grounds for eviction. Just my opinion.

    Try living next to a "drug house" sometime; it will change your opinion.  I live in a quiet middle class neighborhood, working class families, well kept homes, nice people.  A few years ago a guy and his wife bought the house next to me for their son to live in while attending college here in town.  Now 5 years later the 20 something kid and his roommate are still aspiring musicians, no longer in school, no regular jobs, band practice at their house, lots and lots of traffic of scruffy looking kids in and out.  Car pulls up, a slimy looking kid gets out, runs in the house while the driver waits, runs back out a few minutes later.  The house is a neighborhood blight and a nuisance.  I wish someone would evict these clowns.  Better yet I wish the parents could live next door to them for a week to see what it is like.

    Oh yeah, these kids are white.  There are a lot of black families in our community that I wished lived next door rather than these idiots.

    Kino74

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #17 on: January 04, 2009, 06:43:31 pm »
    I use to joke sometimes that instead of sending NOLA evacuess to Houston, send them to San Franscisco.  Let out liberals understand what a cultrual and attitude problem is all about first hand. 

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #18 on: January 04, 2009, 09:28:38 pm »
    I have to reply about the NOLA folks here in Houston. I have met one who was a good person and came here without gov assistance. He is in Graduate school, has a great job and an awesome guy in general. Other than that though it has been a freaking disaster. the apartments all got filled up with honestly some family's that had not worked since the great society programs came into effect, 3+generations.... Crime went up as well and the evacuees were still getting free rent extensions I believe up until a few months ago. Like was mentioned before in previous post it is not about race but culture and the poor unemployed folks who came are on the bottom rung of the culture scale. The one person I know who is a good guy that evacuated was successful before he got here the other 100,000 who came were poor there in Nola and now still poor here in Houston. My family and I are just a little extra vigilant than we were pre-Katrina. I wish they would go back, but they probably wont until my city is as corrupt, polluted and completely raided as New Orleans is. I think that is why almost all have stayed, despite all the road home programs the state of Louisiana plays ads for on the radio here. None will go back because Houston is fresh meat for the taking as New Orleans is already picked over from 40 years of failed social engineering.
    Keep your powder dry

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #19 on: January 05, 2009, 03:59:34 pm »
    I have to reply about the NOLA folks here in Houston. I have met one who was a good person and came here without gov assistance. He is in Graduate school, has a great job and an awesome guy in general. Other than that though it has been a freaking disaster. the apartments all got filled up with honestly some family's that had not worked since the great society programs came into effect, 3+generations.... Crime went up as well and the evacuees were still getting free rent extensions I believe up until a few months ago. Like was mentioned before in previous post it is not about race but culture and the poor unemployed folks who came are on the bottom rung of the culture scale. The one person I know who is a good guy that evacuated was successful before he got here the other 100,000 who came were poor there in Nola and now still poor here in Houston. My family and I are just a little extra vigilant than we were pre-Katrina. I wish they would go back, but they probably wont until my city is as corrupt, polluted and completely raided as New Orleans is. I think that is why almost all have stayed, despite all the road home programs the state of Louisiana plays ads for on the radio here. None will go back because Houston is fresh meat for the taking as New Orleans is already picked over from 40 years of failed social engineering.

    Prime example why socialism and entitlements never will work in this country.  You got a fwe good outstanding people contributing and a ton sitting around waiting for a hand out.  I hate to say it but the best way for you to get rid of them is to cut off entitlements OR reduced them to below NOLA levels. 

    Gunsmom

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #20 on: January 05, 2009, 04:37:36 pm »
    We got NOLA folks all the way out here in West Texas, across the state. I met one family, mom, dad, a couple of kids. Within a week of arrival both parents had jobs and the kids were in school. Of course, that's the way they lived there too. I don't know if they stayed or went back but they are an asset to any community. They happen to be a black family.

    There were other folks who stayed in their FEMA-paid housing until they almost literally had to be pried out, then were complaining "But what are we going to do?" This wasn't the month after Katrina, this was more than a year later! Still no job, still no plans other than the same old same old. They weren't a bit happy that folks out here weren't going to pick up where FEMA was leaving off. There weren't a lot of these long-term holdouts, but there were a few, and they just flat wore their welcomes out here. Every one able to work could have had a job; local folks here welcomed them with open arms and were amazingly generous. The community, by the way, had public transportation available, so that should not have been an issue either.

    People in Texas can be very friendly, hospitable, and generous, but if you're still sitting on your fanny a year after your "disaster" whining about "poor poor pitiful me" and haven't made any effort to help yourself, then sorry, we're going to cut off the gravy train.

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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #21 on: January 05, 2009, 10:58:48 pm »
    It so happens that my Youngest Son was attacked in a neighborhood park one evening three years ago, the January after Katrina.  The Precinct 4 constable who was the lead on the case was a former NOLA LEO.  I asked him, some days later, whether these thugs were Katrina refugees and he said no, they were local.  Then added that the criminals that had come here from NOLA post-Katrina made our local homegrown thugs look like kids at a Sunday School picnic, and that we could be thankful that these guys that attacked our YS were NOT among those.

    We lived up the hill from some section 8 housing some years ago in a small east Texas town.  Yeah, some of the folks there were total sludge.  Some were folks who had had some tough breaks and were doing their bloody best to pull themselves up and just needed some help for awhile.  And you could not tell who was who by skin color.

    It is not a function of race to be a welfare-sucking slug.  It is not a function of race to be a poor person who's working two jobs to get their family OFF welfare.  Be careful not to make equations where none actually exist.

    Jan
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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #22 on: January 06, 2009, 03:13:30 am »
    Closest I've come to Section 8 is managing pools at a few apartment complexes back in high school and college. I've broken up some fights and called the cops a few times, but nothin huge.  If I'm not gettin paid, I steer clear of Section 8.
    For what its worth, most of the times I had to get the police involved was scumbag white people, but I've thrown plenty of people of plenty of races out of plenty of pools. I agree wholeheartedly with Jan that scumbag is not a color.
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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #23 on: January 06, 2009, 04:14:00 am »
    Quote from: Outbreak
    I agree wholeheartedly with Jan that scumbag is not a color

    That one's going in the Quotes file.
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    Re: Bay Area liberals discover the joys of "diversity" (Section 8 housing)
    « Reply #24 on: January 06, 2009, 10:44:01 am »
    I agree wholeheartedly with Jan that scumbag is not a color.

    That's for sure- I know I certainly have relatives I'd rather not claim kin to! ;)

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