Author Topic: AOM: Idleness Kills Manliness (Read 9965 times)

Plebian · « **Reply #25 on:** March 09, 2016, 02:50:22 am »

Quote from: Kaso on March 08, 2016, 07:44:39 am

Yet many people's moral compass (including mine) is directly related to the teachings of their religious persuasion. If I were to cut the leash of my faith-based moral code from my neck... I would be inclined to behave very differently.

Religion does provide an easy way for those who believe, to know what is Right and Wrong without requiring a criminal statute to explain it to them.

What would you do differently with a cut to your faith-based moral code?

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Kaso · « **Reply #26 on:** March 09, 2016, 10:10:31 am »

Quote from: Plebian on March 09, 2016, 02:50:22 am

What would you do differently with a cut to your faith-based moral code?

I plead the Fifth. Seriously.

RevDisk · « **Reply #27 on:** March 10, 2016, 03:19:31 pm »

I spent seven plus years working for the government, six in uniform.

The notion that I owe the country X years as "mandatory national service" is a no-go for me. I'm not a fan of slave labor, even if it's for "the greater good" rather than some plantation owner. Screw that, not to mention involuntary servitude being illegal under the Thirteenth Amendment.

I already spend approximately 30% to 50% of my lifespan working to make money for the government rather than my own wallet. Folks want MORE of my time? Yeah, nope.

coelacanth · « **Reply #28 on:** March 10, 2016, 07:25:08 pm »

Were you referring to my reference of "Starship Troopers" or something form the articles mentioned?

Sock Monkey · « **Reply #29 on:** March 11, 2016, 12:14:36 pm »

Quote from: coelacanth on March 10, 2016, 07:25:08 pm

Were you referring to my reference of "Starship Troopers" or something form the articles mentioned?

Probably the quotation from the article, in the OP. It caught my eye, as well, and for the same reasons. Unfortunately, we can't rely on Uncle Sam to build character. Which brings us back to the same old problem of the fatherless home.

RevDisk · « **Reply #30 on:** March 11, 2016, 12:31:40 pm »

Quote from: coelacanth on March 10, 2016, 07:25:08 pm

Were you referring to my reference of "Starship Troopers" or something form the articles mentioned?

The quotes from the article.

Quote

"I am personally a big supporter of the idea of mandatory national service, for men and women alike. At least in theory.

Not being a pacifist like James, nor as optimistic as he was that a permanent end to war will soon be forthcoming, I’d give folks a choice between community service and joining the military. Yet I’m not very optimistic about such a program ever coming to fruition for three reasons: 1) It’d need to be run efficiently and effectively, and our present government cannot get even little things accomplished without massive bloat and red tape. 2) Our current culture has largely lost the notion of civic service and sacrifice for the larger good, so the idea would likely bring howls of protest from many corners. 3) Which is why it almost assuredly would never pass politically. So too, to get the maximum benefits from it, the participants ought to be sex-segregated, so that men can experience the unique dynamics of fraternal bonding that happen in all-male “platoons.” And of course, no one would sign off on that idea in our current political and societal culture."

Currently, I am giving up a third to half of my life 'for the greater good'. And some people want more? Mandatory? For alleged character development? They can get stuffed. If I was only giving up ten percent of my life, MAYBE the idea MIGHT have some possible value.

MTK20 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 11, 2016, 12:40:32 pm »

Quote from: RevDisk on March 11, 2016, 12:31:40 pm

The quotes from the article.

Currently, I am giving up a third to half of my life 'for the greater good'. And some people want more? Mandatory? For alleged character development? They can get stuffed. If I was only giving up ten percent of my life, MAYBE the idea MIGHT have some possible value.

This is a good point. Mandatory anything is counterintuitive to individual liberty.

Sock Monkey · « **Reply #32 on:** March 11, 2016, 04:11:14 pm »

I'm kinda new to AOM, and the writers they cite, but it seems they are drawing too much of a dichotomy between the dangerous world of yesteryear, and the comfy world of today. They talk (at least in the bits I read) as if everyone has a cushy office job. Of course, even in a cushy office job, you often still need traits of competitiveness, and a certain kind of aggressiveness.

But plenty of men work in fields where traditional manliness is very important. Those are the Mike Rowe sort of jobs, that require a lot of physical strength and/or involve levels of physical discomfort, and not a little ingenuity. "Mastery" is called for. In those fields, you won't be well-liked if you're not the kind of guy that can get things done, and especially not if you're the sort to shrink from a challenge, and make other people clean up behind you.

Kaso · « **Reply #33 on:** March 11, 2016, 04:14:43 pm »

My problem with 'the greater good' is anyone who believes in it. Bernie Sanders supporters come to mind. Or just any socialist.

coelacanth · « **Reply #34 on:** March 11, 2016, 10:57:11 pm »

Okay. I see the problem - and yes things done "for the greater good" tend to be those things you get arrested for unless you have a governmental blessing. Likewise "mandatory service" . The devil is always in the details. My reference earlier to Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" story was zeroed in on the concept of voluntary military service with the stipulation that in order to be a voting member of that society you had to be or had to have been a member of the armed forces and honorably discharged. You could be considered a valuable member of the society without having served in the armed forces - and in the story a large number of people did exactly that - you just couldn't vote in the elections. Considering the number of people I run across these days who are completely apolitical and do not vote at all, it may be an idea who's time has come.

Chief45 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 12, 2016, 05:32:28 pm »

re" RAH ST. to vote, Had to have been a volunteer AND successfully completed term of service. currently serving could not vote.

Quote from: coelacanth on March 11, 2016, 10:57:11 pm

Okay. I see the problem - and yes things done "for the greater good" tend to be those things you get arrested for unless you have a governmental blessing. Likewise "mandatory service" . The devil is always in the details. My reference earlier to Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" story was zeroed in on the concept of voluntary military service with the stipulation that in order to be a voting member of that society you had to be or had to have been a member of the armed forces and honorably discharged. You could be considered a valuable member of the society without having served in the armed forces - and in the story a large number of people did exactly that - you just couldn't vote in the elections. Considering the number of people I run across these days who are completely apolitical and do not vote at all, it may be an idea who's time has come.

Author Topic: AOM: Idleness Kills Manliness (Read 9965 times)

Plebian

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Kaso

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RevDisk

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coelacanth

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Sock Monkey

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RevDisk

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MTK20

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Sock Monkey

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Kaso

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coelacanth

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Chief45

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