From what I understand, homeboy was actually found outside the perimeter the police had established to be searched.  The police were just about to pull back to try to figure things out, when Joe Homeowner came to them and reported blood on his shed and boat tarp, which led the cops to the suspect.

So, for all the SWAT guys rolling around with their armored trucks in their black ninja suits, it was an alert citizen who ultimately made the key find.

If it hadn't been for the Alert Citizen, I wonder how long the police would have tried to keep things locked down?

From what I understand, homeboy was actually found outside the perimeter the police had established to be searched.  The police were just about to pull back to try to figure things out, when Joe Homeowner came to them and reported blood on his shed and boat tarp, which led the cops to the suspect.

So, for all the SWAT guys rolling around with their armored trucks in their black ninja suits, it was an alert citizen who ultimately made the key find.

If it hadn't been for the Alert Citizen, I wonder how long the police would have tried to keep things locked down?

No, you're wrong, check the facts. The woman who alerted the police noticed the condition of the boat et al, was not the same as after the police had searched it. Cut the s___, he may be your homeboy, but not anybody in the rest of the country's.
Stop all the internet anti-establishment toughguy BS.  Try serving your community and country before talking s___ about those who do. Have you ever even darkened the doorway of a recruiting office?

A quote that pertains to the earlier discussion:

But police said at a press conference after the standoff ended that Tsarnaev had escaped their manhunt and hid himself in the boat just one block outside of the perimeter they were searching.

Says they caught him outside the perimeter 

Try serving your community and country before talking s___ about those who do. Have you ever even darkened the doorway of a recruiting office?

Not sure how that lends any assistance or detraction to someone's thought process about the current subject, doubly so discussing freedom and liberty vs oppression and official over reach, those who HAVEN'T served may have the more correct and pro-freedom perspective as they have not been the one desiring a more expedient way of doing things that might infringe upon the constitutional rights of those involved.

Speaking of expedience trouncing the living daylights out of constitutional rights I present to you the raping of the 5th amendment:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/boston-bomb-suspect-captured-alive-backyard-boat/story?id=18994511&#.UXIsMMp49ku

A senior Justice Department official told ABC News that federal law enforcement officials are invoking the public safety exception to the Miranda rights, so that Tsarnaev will be questioned immediately without having Miranda rights issued to him.

Cause you know, the constitution is only for when life is rosy, there is no threat and all is well. Certainly wouldn't want to let that whole issue of freedom get in the way when someone might get hurt.   

Or maybe I'm just a crazy radical. 

No, you're wrong, check the facts. The woman who alerted the police noticed the condition of the boat et al, was not the same as after the police had searched it. Cut the s___, he may be your homeboy, but not anybody in the rest of the country's.
Stop all the internet anti-establishment toughguy BS.  Try serving your community and country before talking s___ about those who do. Have you ever even darkened the doorway of a recruiting office?

Not sure where you're getting that info, I'm pretty sure I saw the police commissioner on CNN commenting on how they found him two blocks outside their perimeter. Also I don't really get the offense that you're taking, I didn't read anything disrespectful in Langenator's comment.  I read it simply as him observing irony in the situation. But maybe I missed something.

Also, I don't think many of us here are that determined to make life difficult for police officers hunting for a fugitive terrorist who may be hiding out in our neighborhood. I just think the situation makes us a little uneasy, because the standard of "when the event is serious enough to get over it and cooperate" is somewhat of an arbitrary threshold.   Obviously the public needs to help find a terrorist, but what is the threshold for granting the police warrant-less entry just so we can be "team players".  Any murder? Any time a cop is killed? Any time there's a bomb?  I'm happy to be a team player, but what am I really signing up for on the long haul? Without those questions answered, I tend to default on the side of skeptical and suspicious.   

As I said earlier, in this instance I would comply. But I'd feel better about it if I knew we were engaging in the broader conversation and not just defaulting to "if you don't feel good about cooperating, you're automatically a bastard".

Also, I don't think many of us here are that determined to make life difficult for police officers hunting for a fugitive terrorist who may be hiding out in our neighborhood. I just think the situation makes us a little uneasy, because the standard of "when the event is serious enough to get over it and cooperate" is somewhat of an arbitrary threshold.   Obviously the public needs to help find a terrorist, but what is the threshold for granting the police warrant-less entry just so we can be "team players".  Any murder? Any time a cop is killed? Any time there's a bomb?  I'm happy to be a team player, but what am I really signing up for on the long haul? Without those questions answered, I tend to default on the side of skeptical and suspicious.   

As I said earlier, in this instance I would comply. But I'd feel better about it if I knew we were engaging in the broader conversation and not just defaulting to "if you don't feel good about cooperating, you're automatically a bastard".

Umm, you nailed it. Couldn't add a thing to that statement. 

Well I didn't expect them to take him alive no matter what.
I'm impressed. 

Yeah - that surprised me too - but, I'm glad they did - showed some restraint and discipline (I mean, who didn't want to blow his head off?!). But it does sound like the guy was pretty jacked up, and couldn't have fought back if he wanted to.

And in real life non chest internet thumping circumstances, I wouldn't get into a shootout with them over illegally searching my house, I'd protest and lock the door on their ass.
And as non-violently as possible make it as hard to search the premiss as possible as a means of civil disobedience. Then I'd sue the shiznit out of them. Because that is a out right violation of the constitution I don't care what the corrupt, political, decrepit court has to say about it.

Dude - DR - that's what I said. We're on the same page - let them in although its clearly - but respectfully impressed that you're not giving them permission. Then sue them - - in court (the corrupt, political, decrepit one). .:-))

On the Miranda issues - I think Lonestar and Coronach pretty much covered it.

Bill

Try serving your community and country before talking s___ about those who do. Have you ever even darkened the doorway of a recruiting office?

Out of curiosity, please define "serving your community and country" and why you would need to darken the doorway of a recruiting office to do so.

I mean, at the local coffee shop, we have a cashier that serves the community daily, and at least half the community stops in there at least once a day.  She knows me by name, and I know hers.  Is that "serving your community"?  I think it is.

I don't know the name of a single LEO in this town.  Granted, we've only lived here for a year, and I haven't done anything to get arrested for yet.  But the point is that I have gotten more "service" from the coffee girl than I will from the RCMP in a life time.  But still, both of them get paid.  Being an LEO is not some high minded and altruistic calling.

Given all of that, what makes you feel that the opinion of an LEO is - not on grounds of education or knowledge - somehow more morally fit than that of a coffee shop clerk?

SeanP, By serving one's community and country I mean putting themselves in harm's way...and yes being an LEO is altruistic, in the same sense as that of a serving military member in that they volunteer to protect the citizenry, whereas the coffee clerk does none of that.

As for the terrorist being outside the perimeter, a clearer pic will come out in the days to follow. at about 2030-2100hrs last night, Fox (Shep Smith) were purportedly on the phone w/ the owners of the property where he was holed up and a lady on the phone said that the Police had already swept through and some time after was when it was noticed there was blood on the boat and a strap was cut....who knows? I'm pretty sure thess events will get armchaired to death over the next few days (weeks).

Langenator, I am sorry that I was a bit harsh with you and I appreciate your service in the Army and I truly do thank you for placing yourself between us and those who would do us harm.
However, it wouldn't matter if you were the Chief of Staff, neither you, I, nor anyone else here should be making BS comments about the organizations who have lost men, or had them wounded trying to safeguard the public, while we're safely ensconced in our comfortable homes hundreds or thousands of miles away.
It's the same stance I take for those who put themselves in harm's way regardless of whether they're Military, Fire, Police etc.

To all I have pissed off in the past few hours,( Lang, LSN, and all others) I apologize. I have been in a particularly foul mood as we/I have lost a dear family member (My beloved Mother-in law) and am utterly exhausted with helping my wife and her family make arrangements. I do not offer this up as an excuse, I'm just giving an honest explanation for my being such an ass over the last few hours. ( the rest of the time that I am generally an ass is all on me! )
I should know better than to post on such an emotional topic, while in such a foul state of mind.

I'm sure we are all sorry for your (wife's) loss. 

Yes, you were a bit volatile yesterday, but we all get that way occasionally.  Most of us have, here, on WTA.

In the interest of helping this thread avoid a premature death, I say we just move on and forget about this one.


Also... SLM, if you hung out here more often, you might have known the Lang. was Army...



Kaso

I gotta say, it has been one hell of a news week.  Bombing, Whodunnit, Gun-Control Bill, Suspects, Found the guy killing DA's, Plant explosion, murder of police officer, car chase/shootout, biggest/most intense manhunt in the history of the country, gunfight/flashbangs, arrest...and all more or less on live tv.   And we thought the OJ chase on live t.v. was a big deal...

 I'm generally a news junky, but I especially couldn't break away from it this week.  I'm fluffing exhausted.

I can't help but wonder what amount of intel they'll be able to glean from the terrorist? Lots of unanswered questions about other cells, missions, leadership, organizational structure (if any), etc.......

IF there's any intel to be had, I bet the kid will talk.  My (uninformed) suspicion is that this kid isn't a true believer, he's a little brother who got dragged into something by his big brother (not that that excuses a damned thing).  Big brother went to Russia, big brother went down guns blazing with some sort of explosives on his person, while little brother seems to have fought tooth and nail to escape, evade, and survive, and then when the gig was up, he gave up.  I'm guessing he doesn't have much fight left in him.

But there's also a chance these two were lone wolf and learned to build bombs on UTubez, and there's no intelligence to be had beyond that.  I'm actually leaning that way right now...  At least, I want it to be that way....

While I believe they were lone wolves, I also believe strongly that there are other cells waiting to activate but its anyone's guess as to why they haven't.

Imagine if these guys had been Russian or Iranian spec ops or trained by such. Sure they aren't the same league as US spec ops but they would have been a darn sight harder to pin down than the Tsarnaev brothers. I'm not so sure that local LEO's and the feds did such a good job as much as it was the Tsarnaev's were bumbling idiots in over their heads.

Who would have though the bombers would still be in the area with no pre-staged resources or escape routes? Robbing a store and stealing a car? Why weren't cash and cars prepped ahead of time? No safehouse or escape plane? All that considered together screams unprofessional and untrained. Had they been the afore-mentioned spec ops teams, there would have been squads of dead LEO's. One spec ops guy would be bad enough but a team would be hell. Overall, in the big scheme of things and considering what it could have been, this was a pissant attack to quote Lt. Col. Grossman as he explained it early this past week.

Imagine, if you will, a few "leaders" who recruit online 'participants' who ally themselves with radicalism.
A few at a time or a whole coordinated set of attacks, is does not matter.
Chaos would ensue. Did ensue.
Our LEO's are totally unprepared for a series of attacks let alone one single, minor (in lieu of past attacks around the world) incident.
It will be John and Jill Q. Public that will be the major factor against future attacks and the biggest help in finding those responsible in successful attempts.
Our founder's were wise beyond their years.
The solution is staring us in the face.
The Constitution spells it out.
Law abiding, Civilian Militias trained and equipped by the Government (Both state and federal) with ammunition and full auto capable, military grade weapons and equipment.
Keep them trained through quarterly or semi-annual programs to bring everyone up to speed and repair/test functionality of gear.
Also...
Eliminate a sheeple like mentality by positively reinforcing the populace to engage in their own Liberty, Freedom, Community (Love thy neighbor as thyself), and Government (Watching the watchers so to speak).
Encourage shooting sports, survival skills (hunting, fishing, camping, hiking), training in tactical defense both armed and unarmed combat skills.
This would go a long way to ferreting out enemies both foreign and domestic.

I'm not so sure that local LEO's and the feds did such a good job as much as it was the Tsarnaev's were bumbling idiots in over their heads.

Who would have though the bombers would still be in the area with no pre-staged resources or escape routes? Robbing a store and stealing a car? Why weren't cash and cars prepped ahead of time? No safehouse or escape plane? All that considered together screams unprofessional and untrained.

I was telling the Mrs over dinner last night, from my foxhole it looks like they probably thought they could drop the bombs without getting ID'ed.  They were still local because they thought they'd gotten out clean.  All of the craziness Wednesday night seemed to start not too long after the FBI posted their pictures, which, by my guess, was followed by panic on their part.

The one interesting thing is that, unlike most of the previous self-actuated jihadists, these two didn't seem to be intent on dieing while carrying out their attack. 

I also think that, if he hadn't already been wounded before he was discovered, brother #2 would have continued to try to E&E.