Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.

Author Topic: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston  (Read 21904 times)

mephisto

  • Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 1277
  • I'm worth a million in prizes

  • Offline
Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
« Reply #100 on: April 20, 2013, 04:10:21 pm »
Maybe they were "left out to dry".
ArizonaI'm worth a million in prizes.

"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."

- Ronald Reagan

"....if you own a gun and have a swimming pool in the yard, the swimming pool is almost 100 times more likely to kill a child than the gun is."

WeTheArmed.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    seanp

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4977
    • Redneck Canadian

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #101 on: April 20, 2013, 04:21:21 pm »
    I was telling the Mrs over dinner last night, from my foxhole it looks like they probably thought they could drop the bombs without getting ID'ed.  They were still local because they thought they'd gotten out clean.  All of the craziness Wednesday night seemed to start not too long after the FBI posted their pictures, which, by my guess, was followed by panic on their part.

    That seems reasonable to me.
    "Nobody wants to be here and nobody wants to leave."
    The Road - Cormac McCarthy

    booksmart

    • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6654
    • E. Pluribus Unum.

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #102 on: April 20, 2013, 06:43:11 pm »
    when arrested, he had 6 bombs, a rifle, and a handgun on him.

    LoneStarNational

    • Senior Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 861
    • "Stop the world and let me off..."

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #103 on: April 20, 2013, 07:07:30 pm »
    Maybe they were "left out to dry".

    This also seems plausible (although unlikely). They're a disposable pawn (and don't know it). Someone gives them a bomb, promises them support, a safe-house, and extraction. They set off the bomb, then return to the safehouse to find out they've closed up shop and skipped town. Then they panic, and start doing stupid s___.

    Although I read that little brother went to a party Wednesday night, which suggests he thought he got away clean. It also makes his motives that much more bizarre.
    Texas"...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right..."  -Thomas Paine

    "You all can go to hell... I'm going to Texas."  -Davy Crockett

    "Thumb back that hammer, watch that cylinder turn, and try not to s*** yourse

    booksmart

    • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6654
    • E. Pluribus Unum.

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #104 on: April 20, 2013, 07:23:19 pm »
    Although I read that little brother went to a party Wednesday night, which suggests he thought he got away clean. It also makes his motives that much more bizarre.

    Trying to act normal?  :shrug

    strangelittleman

    • Small, Dark and Handsome
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 3155

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #105 on: April 20, 2013, 07:43:13 pm »
    I'm of the mind that if everything had not gone sideways Thursday night, that they were going to hit again very soon. The whole carjacking mess was perhaps to get the car set up similar to the Times Square incident....They let the owner go, knowing he would dial 911.....odd.
    Semper Gumby.....Always Flexible.
    Vision without action is a daydream, Action without vision is a nightmare.
    Zol zayn azoy.

    Kaso

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7211
    • WTA Hardline Antagonist (aka: Jerk)

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #106 on: April 20, 2013, 08:00:04 pm »
    They let the owner go, knowing he would dial 911.....odd.
    I can't see a reason other than sheer incompetency.




    Kaso

    THE NORSEMAN

    • To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. - Richard Henry Lee
    • Staff Member Emeritus
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5071

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #107 on: April 20, 2013, 09:33:06 pm »
    It's been way too long of a week and I'm way too tired to try and make this post read like a term paper, so here goes the Norseman's quick and slightly fatigue muddled thought collage:

    It seems the older brother spent several months in Russia we know nothing about yet.  Wonder what we'll learn?  He left behind a wife and child.  A wife that apparently converted to Islam strongly enough that she wears traditional Muslim clothing.  He also had an internet presence with several hard line Muslim videos.   
    So, most likely radicalized by someone here in the US while doing that "what do I want out of life" thing most of us went though in out late teens/early twenties, with final training overseas?   And drug his younger brother along for the ride.

    As far as police co-operation?   In this case, they would get it from me.  If my "arsenal" as it were causes friction?  Fine, waste time busting on me instead of looking for the real person of interest, and you WILL be hearing from an attorney when it's all said and done.  This is a whole different situation than Katrina, an earthquake, a tornado, etc.  With those situations, the danger is past, I made it through, I'm fine.  Leave me be.  I'm better off here than in a shelter anyway.

    This bomber on the loose situation?  That's different.  There's still an active threat.  So, come on in, have a snack or beverage on me, and please go catch the bastard, eh?  If they get out of line during the search?  Fine, I'll retain a lawyer, and deal with it after the immediate situation is solved.

    Think on it guys, we'd all have been watching the news, know he's unpredictable, know this clown can and will shoot, and he has explosives he's willing to use.  Ergo, I'm going NOWHERE unarmed(and by that, I mean my 5 shot snubby in CCW mode doesn't cut it right now), and the police will take a VERY DIM view of armed folks about.  SO- This situation is tailor made for testing out whether my 72 hour kit and other emergency supplies are up to snuff, the boss can't bust on me for not coming to work anyway, and as long as we stay put, I KNOW me and mine are safe.  I also know what I'll do should said miscreant evade the police and enter my home, because at that point neither of us would have anything left to lose.

    If any of you haven't seen it-   Pretty intense gunfight.  Reports say that the round count during the exchange was 200 or better.  And I understand that in escaping that scene, the younger brother ran over the deceased one.  There has also been a photo leaked of the older one after his death, in which it appears that he was VERY messed up.  Pretty much shot to doll rags. 
    « Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 09:47:01 pm by THE NORSEMAN »
    This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

    sarge712

    • WTA LEO
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5855
    • Just a teddy bear fulla luv, bub

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #108 on: April 21, 2013, 09:08:59 am »
    I'm of the mind that if everything had not gone sideways Thursday night, that they were going to hit again very soon. The whole carjacking mess was perhaps to get the car set up similar to the Times Square incident....They let the owner go, knowing he would dial 911.....odd.

    Was the car owner muslim? Maybe that's why they released him. I think it was probably panic/spazzing in any event
    North CarolinaBe without fear in the face of thine enemies.
    Be brave and upright that God may love thee.
    Speak the truth always even if it leads to thy death.
    Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
    That is thine oath.

    sarge712

    • WTA LEO
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5855
    • Just a teddy bear fulla luv, bub

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #109 on: April 21, 2013, 12:15:55 pm »
    I think Jim may be on it. It looks like the FBI is searching for other cell members who left the Tsarnaevs swinging in the wind:

    http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/04/12643-fbi-hunting-12-additional-sleeper-cell-terrorists-connected-to-boston-bombers/

    I don't know how reliable this site is but I connected to it from fb
    North CarolinaBe without fear in the face of thine enemies.
    Be brave and upright that God may love thee.
    Speak the truth always even if it leads to thy death.
    Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
    That is thine oath.

    LoneStarNational

    • Senior Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 861
    • "Stop the world and let me off..."

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #110 on: April 21, 2013, 01:04:52 pm »
    Texas"...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right..."  -Thomas Paine

    "You all can go to hell... I'm going to Texas."  -Davy Crockett

    "Thumb back that hammer, watch that cylinder turn, and try not to s*** yourse

    scarville

    • Armed, Godless Heathen
    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1371

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #111 on: April 21, 2013, 04:03:23 pm »
    If the Mirror published it you might want to consider independent verification.
    CaliforniaOf course I carry a gun!  It gives me a chance against the sinners and protection from the righteous.

    If you are going through hell then don't stop. Keep going until you find the exit.

    Feud

    • Teller of bad jokes.
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4986

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #112 on: April 22, 2013, 10:35:25 am »
    Video from one of the searches.  I've seen some cite this as an example of an illegal search, but given the distance it seems like the home owner might have consented.  I can't listen too close right now, so I don't know if you can hear yea or nay on it, but I imagine not since it's across the street and behind a window. 


    booksmart

    • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6654
    • E. Pluribus Unum.

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #113 on: April 22, 2013, 12:40:21 pm »
    Nice caption.  :coffee

    Harm

    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 11414

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #114 on: April 22, 2013, 01:06:56 pm »
    Yeah this video was used on FB as "proof" that the Police were imposing Martial Law on Watertown and all of Boston  ::) and doing illegal search & seizures.   :coffee
    ArizonaIn Deo Confido

    Once more into the fray
    Into the last good fight I'll ever know
    Live and die on this day
    Live and die on this day

    Feud

    • Teller of bad jokes.
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4986

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #115 on: April 22, 2013, 01:13:14 pm »
    I agree, the title is silly, and I don't think that it is the evidence they claim it is.  But, I do think it's interesting to see what was going on, at least at some places.

    booksmart

    • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6654
    • E. Pluribus Unum.

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #116 on: April 22, 2013, 02:17:13 pm »
    If they come back later, and say "By the way, while we were here last time, we noticed you had this contraband laying about... please come with us," they may have a leg to stand on.

    In the meantime, they had a job to do, and (considering there's one pic floating around of a cop bringing a family with young kids two gallons of milk) it sounds like they conducted the searches with at least some modicum of professionalism.

    Thernlund

    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 14101

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #117 on: April 22, 2013, 04:49:19 pm »
    I am certainly of the opinion that what went on in Boston isn't the "martial law" idiocy everyone is screaming about.  As well, I'd need much context on the video above to take it as it's presented. 

    That said, I'd have said No to a search.  My dogs would be flipping out, and I wouldn't want them to be shot accidentally or otherwise.  If what we see in that video is what happened after I said no, I'd have not reacted well to that.  At all.   :scrutiny

    That's a lot of hyperbole though.  I don't know the context of that search.

    ...

    I do note that one of the people exiting is shouted at on the walkway (1:31) to raise his hands (further, I guess).  No matter what the case, I wouldn't have reacted to that very well either.


    -T.
    Arizona  Arm yourself because no one else here will save you.  The odds will betray you, and I will replace you...

    booksmart

    • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6654
    • E. Pluribus Unum.

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #118 on: April 22, 2013, 04:55:52 pm »
    http://gma.yahoo.com/video-dzokhar-tsarnaevs-capture-released-124555983--abc-news-topstories.html

    Quote
    As Dzokhar Tsarnaev recovers in the same Massachusetts hospital as some Boston Marathon bombing victims, authorities released a new aerial video showing how they were able to take the suspect into custody alive.

    WATCH: Infrared Video Verified Boston Bombing Suspect's Hiding Spot

    PHOTOS: Boston Bombing Suspect Manhunt

    A bird's-eye view of the moments before Tsarnaev's capture gave authorities an idea of what to expect as they methodically closed in on the Boston Marathon bombings suspect, who was hunkered down in a boat in a Watertown, Mass., backyard.

    Police believe Tsarnaev was initially wounded Thursday night in the gun battle that ended in his brother's death. Police said they found blood in a car he abandoned and blood at a house.

    Avenger29

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4115
    • It's party time, chumps!

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #119 on: April 23, 2013, 01:40:43 am »
    RE the video of the "innocent people being dragged from their home"

    If the title was true, those people would be in restraints and being dragged off or guarded. Notice how they send the residents of the house down the sidewalk unrestrained and not being frog-marched by the cops? They are sending them back to get them away from the potential danger zone for a reason.






    South Carolina
    I don't THINK I'll ever have to face down routers in the streets.

    I should hope not. Mobs of rogue woodworking tools would suck to repel.

    seanp

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4977
    • Redneck Canadian

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #120 on: April 23, 2013, 03:39:59 am »
    After thinking about the whole house searching thing for a bit now that spring has arrived and I've seen some of the neighbors yards...

    I'd say no.

    Cops don't take off their boots and I really don't want dog s___ on my cream colored carpets.  Or crushed leaves, or grass...

    Nawp.
    "Nobody wants to be here and nobody wants to leave."
    The Road - Cormac McCarthy

    booksmart

    • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6654
    • E. Pluribus Unum.

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #121 on: April 23, 2013, 09:17:47 am »
    http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/criminal-complaint-united-states-vs-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/412/

    It appears he is being charged as a civilian.

    Quote
    The Justice Department, in a criminal complaint unsealed Monday, charged Dzhokhar Tsarnaev with using a "weapon of mass destruction" in the Boston Marathon bombings. It said he used his cellphone as he waited for the first blast, allegedly detonated by his older brother a block up the street, then "calmly but rapidly" walked away, leaving a backpack containing the second bomb on the ground near a metal barrier in front of the Forum Restaurant, where it exploded about 10 seconds later. According to the FBI, one of the brothers later told the driver of a vehicle they carjacked, “Did you hear about the Boston explosion? I did that."

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/23/178560685/early-thinking-boston-suspects-were-working-on-their-own

    Quote
    As investigators learn more about the surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings and what Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and his brother Tamerlan allegedly did, the initial theory is that "these two young men were working on their own," NPR's Dina Temple-Raston said Tuesday on Morning Edition.

    Authorities continue to question 19-year-old Dzhokhar, who remains hospitalized in serious condition. He's being treated at a Boston hospital for a variety of injuries he sustained during gun battles with police on Friday. It's also possible he tried to kill himself before he was captured Friday evening in the Boston suburb of Watertown, Mass.

    Tamerlan, 26, died of injuries he sustained early Friday.

    Investigators say they are hearing from Dzhokhar through notes he's writing in response to questions. Other than one comment from the magistrate who presided at his hospital bed arraignment Monday, there's been no indication that Dzhokhar is able to speak more than a word or two at a time. The magistrate reported that Dzhokhar said "no" when asked if he could afford a lawyer.

    According to law enforcement sources Dina has spoken with, the information they've gotten from Dzhokhar leads them to suspect — so far — that Tamerlan was the "driving force" behind the bombings at the marathon (which killed three people and wounded more than 200).

    strangelittleman

    • Small, Dark and Handsome
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 3155

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #122 on: April 23, 2013, 08:45:27 pm »
    After thinking about the whole house searching thing for a bit now that spring has arrived and I've seen some of the neighbors yards...

    I'd say no.

    Cops don't take off their boots and I really don't want dog s___ on my cream colored carpets.  Or crushed leaves, or grass...

    Nawp.
    Now that's funny! Getting red dog s___ out of light carpet is quite the chore!
    Semper Gumby.....Always Flexible.
    Vision without action is a daydream, Action without vision is a nightmare.
    Zol zayn azoy.

    goatroper

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1461

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #123 on: April 26, 2013, 12:32:38 pm »
    The Washington Compost is not where I'd normally look for objective reporting, but this is far enough outside the preferred narrative there may be something to it.  Very interesting if true.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/officials-boston-suspect-had-no-firearm-when-barrage-of-bullets-hit-hiding-place/2013/04/24/376fc8a0-ad18-11e2-a8b9-2a63d75b5459_story.html

    Officials: Boston suspect had no firearm when barrage of bullets hit hiding place

    By Sari Horwitz and Peter Finn

    Although police feared he was heavily armed, the suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing had no firearms when he came under a barrage of police gunfire that struck the boat where he was hiding, according to multiple federal law enforcement officials.

    Authorities said they were desperate to capture Dzhokhar Tsarnaev so he could be questioned. The FBI, however, declined to discuss what prompted the gunfire.



    Other law enforcement officials said the shooting may have been prompted by the chaos of the moment and some action that led the officers to believe Tsarnaev had fired a weapon or was about to detonate explosives.

    These new details emerged as investigators continued their examination of the movements and motives of Tsarnaev, 19, and his brother, Tamerlan, in last week’s coordinated bombing, which killed three people and wounded more than 250.

    Law enforcement officials said they do not believe the brothers were connected with a terrorist organization, but they cautioned that the inquiry is at an early stage.

    Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, was killed in a confrontation with police in the early morning hours Friday, four days after the marathon bombing. A transit police officer was seriously wounded in the exchange, in which more than 200 rounds were fired and the suspects lobbed homemade explosives at police. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev escaped and was the subject of a massive manhunt. He was cornered hiding in a boat in the driveway of a house in Watertown, Mass., on Friday evening.

    Law enforcement officials described the 30 minutes before the arrest of Tsarnaev as chaotic. One characterized it as “the fog of war” and said that in a highly charged atmosphere, one accidental shot could have caused what police call “contagious fire.”

    Officers from several agencies gathered around the Watertown house as darkness fell. The FBI was in charge of the scene, but there also were officers from the Massachusetts State Police, local police and transit police.

    “They probably didn’t know whether he had a gun,” said one law enforcement official, who like others interviewed for this article spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation. “Hours earlier, he and his brother had killed a police officer, shot another officer and thrown explosives out of their cars as the police were chasing them. They couldn’t assume that he did not have a gun and more explosives.”

    The FBI declined to discuss the exact sequence of events that led officers to open fire on Tsarnaev’s hiding place and whether the dozens of bullets that struck the boat caused any of his gunshot wounds.

    A spokesman for the FBI said law enforcement agents were tracking an extremely dangerous suspect who had used guns and explosives on a public street to avoid arrest.

    “Law enforcement was placed in an extraordinarily dangerous situation,” said FBI spokesman Paul Bresson. “They were dealing with an individual who is alleged to have been involved in the bombings at the Boston Marathon. As if that’s not enough, there were indications of a carjacking, gunfire, an ambushed police officer and bombs thrown earlier. In spite of these extraordinary factors, they were able to capture this individual alive with no further harm to law enforcement. It was a tremendously effective outcome under dire circumstances.”

    Early Friday in Watertown, the brothers engaged in a firefight with police. Tamerlan Tsarnaev was shot and fell to the ground, according to police and photos, and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev climbed back in a Mercedes sport-utility vehicle carjacked earlier. He drove at police and struck his wounded brother on the street. Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was dragged a distance by the car, was declared dead on arrival at a Boston hospital.

    A criminal complaint filed in federal court in Massachusetts on Monday to support charges against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev said police recovered a single firearm and half a dozen explosives and homemade bombs from the scene of the shootout.

    In the ensuing chaos, Tsarnaev accelerated away, abandoned the car and eventually made it on foot just beyond a cordon quickly set up by police. Around 6 p.m. Friday, Tsarnaev was detected hiding beneath a plastic cover on a boat by its owner, who called police. A thermal imaging unit in a police helicopter confirmed a presence in the boat.

    “You can’t second-guess what they were doing on that scene,” said a second law enforcement official. “Their own lives were in danger.”

    In the immediate aftermath of Tsarnaev’s capture, police officials said he had fired from the boat and he was reported to have been captured with several weapons. There were also reports that the gunshot wound he suffered to the throat might have been an attempt to kill himself as police moved in.

    Tsarnaev continues to be treated at a Boston hospital, where his condition has been upgraded from critical to fair. He began communicating in writing and some speech with a special team of FBI interrogators Saturday night and was officially charged Monday.

    On Wednesday, Vice President Biden eulogized Sean Collier, the slain Massachusetts Institute of Technology police officer, and denounced Tsarnaev and his dead brother as “two twisted, perverted, cowardly knockoff
    jihadis.”

    Thousands of MIT students and police officers from across the United States attended a memorial service on the grounds of the university to remember the 27-year-old police officer.
    VirginiaGoatroper

    Langenator

    • WTA LEO
    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1891

    • Offline
    Re: All Hell Breaking Loose in Boston
    « Reply #124 on: April 26, 2013, 02:05:38 pm »
    Kind of an uncomfortable situation- on one hand, you've (probably) got a suspected cop-killer with an exhibited tendency to shoot first.

    On the other, our troops in Afghanistan go after even nastier bad guys, who have better guns, bombs, and RPGs, with an ROE that requires them to at least actually see a weapon or confirmed threat before they shoot.  Otherwise they surround the target and call the people out. (And the BGs usually comply.  For jihadis, they have a decided preference for not dieing gloriously in battle against the infidel.)

    So if Tsarnaev didn't shoot, why did the cops?
    TexasFortuna Fortis Paratus

    Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.