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Author Topic: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin  (Read 10391 times)

Thernlund

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Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2012, 09:55:06 pm »
These things don't happen any more or less often now than they did 20 years ago.  But this is an election year.  So you will hear about them more often.

Those drawn to conspiracy theories certainly have quite a bit to ponder lately, hm?  You have to admit, if some of those wingnuts were just a bit less wignutty, it might start making sense.


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    sarge712

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #26 on: August 06, 2012, 10:03:20 pm »
    This Sikh priest was a bad ass. He went after the shooter with just a damn butter knife and sacrificed his life so the women could escape.  I teared up when I read this:

     http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/06/sikh-temple-president-hailed-hero-dies-defending-worshipers-from-gunman/
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    booksmart

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #27 on: August 06, 2012, 10:11:14 pm »
    It wasn't the wrong group for him. Any non-white, esoecially an immigrant group, is a potential target for a hard corps white supremacist. I've studied and dealt with these animals for 15+ years. He might not have known a Sikh from a Sunni but brown is brown is brown with this fluffer and his ilk.

    Fair enough - we haven't heard of any 'manifesto' from him saying exactly who he was targeting, have we?

    Grant

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #28 on: August 06, 2012, 10:16:00 pm »
    This Sikh priest was a bad ass. He went after the shooter with just a damn butter knife and sacrificed his life so the women could escape.  I teared up when I read this:

     http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/06/sikh-temple-president-hailed-hero-dies-defending-worshipers-from-gunman/

    I just heard that........I REALLY, REALLY wish this was covered as much as anything.     That priest deserves massive recognition.

     Also, one of the reasons I have respect for the Sikh.....I've only talked to one in person, but for the most part alot of them are real badasses. 
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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #29 on: August 06, 2012, 10:21:16 pm »
    Fair enough - we haven't heard of any 'manifesto' from him saying exactly who he was targeting, have we?
    I am thinking that he was targeting those people at the end of his muzzle.


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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #30 on: August 06, 2012, 10:27:51 pm »
    This shooting angers me more than the other shootings that have happened recently.
    Pure ignorant hate.

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #31 on: August 07, 2012, 01:00:39 am »
    I don't care about his motives, I don't care particularly that he was a white supremest.

    I feel bad for the poor folks who got shot up, in a fairly abstract way, after all none of us actually knew these folks, but its too bad violence occurs like this from time to time.

    I do care a LOT about the term "terrorist" being bandied about so freely, that is what we call the people we are at war with, its use in reference to American civilians committing crimes is propaganda and culture modification.  This guy wasn't a "terrorist" he was a whackjob, criminal, murderer. He is now dead, lets move on and allow the families to bury their dead, grieve and do whatever they can to put this behind them. A constant drum roll ceases to be news and quickly becomes more propaganda for the anti-freedom folks. 

    JesseL

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #32 on: August 07, 2012, 01:23:30 am »
    I consider terrorism those acts that attempt to use violence to trigger a larger fear-based reaction (sort of analogous to an autoimmune reaction in biology) in order to advance a political or ideological goal. That may be a bit narrower than the popular useage, but I'm one of those people who likes to insist that words mean things.

    In this case and at this time it's hard to say precisely what the motives of the shooter were. The fact that he was a white supremacist who targeted Sikhs (and it's speculated that that was because he confused them with Muslims) doesn't necessarily say much about his goal.
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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #33 on: August 07, 2012, 08:40:02 am »
    I'm surprised all the old dude was able to get a grip on was a butter knife.  You would think that with it being a Sikh Temple the men would have had functional kirpans.  Must have been a "weapon free" zone.
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    sarge712

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #34 on: August 07, 2012, 08:45:14 am »
    I'm surprised all the old dude was able to get a grip on was a butter knife.  You would think that with it being a Sikh Temple the men would have had functional kirpans.  Must have been a "weapon free" zone.
    I wondered that too Sean. I had studied their religion years ago and knew that the kirpan was a required article of attire along with the steel bracelet, turban, etc.

    Maybe it was just ceremonial and non-functional.
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    seanp

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #35 on: August 07, 2012, 09:13:01 am »
    I wondered that too Sean. I had studied their religion years ago and knew that the kirpan was a required article of attire along with the steel bracelet, turban, etc.

    Maybe it was just ceremonial and non-functional.

    That could well be the case.  I know a lot of them now use non-funtional ones, particularly for students, etc...  All of the ones I know or have seen carry discretely.  Many of the younger guys are also not full observers, or initiates (?).  They may wear the bracelet, but not the turban or the kirpan.
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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #36 on: August 07, 2012, 09:39:58 am »
    I consider terrorism those acts that attempt to use violence to trigger a larger fear-based reaction (sort of analogous to an autoimmune reaction in biology) in order to advance a political or ideological goal. That may be a bit narrower than the popular useage, but I'm one of those people who likes to insist that words mean things.

    Jesse, your definition is the correct one...it's just that the media have largely devolved the meaning into "any violence that we think is scary, especially if we can tie it to people whose political views we don't like" while government types have devolved it to mean "any type of violence we think we can use to scare people into giving us more power/control."
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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #37 on: August 07, 2012, 12:37:06 pm »
    These things don't happen any more or less often now than they did 20 years ago.  But this is an election year.  So you will hear about them more often.

    Those drawn to conspiracy theories certainly have quite a bit to ponder lately, hm?  You have to admit, if some of those wingnuts were just a bit less wignutty, it might start making sense.


    -T.


     :hmm  I think you've made up a new word.  I like it.  "Wignutty."    ;)
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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #38 on: August 07, 2012, 12:39:13 pm »
    The scumbag is now shown to have had a history of associating with "white power rock bands." 

    I call the killer what he deserves to be called.  Evil and dead.  I also wouldn't mind my bit of Heaven being abutting Hell so that his meat-hooked soul comes by every day for a dose of a pitchfork into his intestines to be wound like spaghetti. 
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    Thernlund

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #39 on: August 07, 2012, 08:24:54 pm »
    I'm surprised all the old dude was able to get a grip on was a butter knife.  You would think that with it being a Sikh Temple the men would have had functional kirpans.

    I wondered that too Sean. I had studied their religion years ago and knew that the kirpan was a required article of attire along with the steel bracelet, turban, etc.

    My understanding is that it's a formal article of faith, and not carried by all Sikhs.

    Like the underwear thing to LDS.  Not all wear it, even if they are active in the church.


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    onesmack4u

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #40 on: August 07, 2012, 09:05:04 pm »
    I think I would prefer a magic knife to magic underwear. Personally I opt for a magic Glock 23.
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    scarville

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #41 on: August 07, 2012, 09:26:44 pm »
    All baptized Sikh's are required to carry a kirpan.  However in places where the screaming meemies  :panic rule, certain compromises get made. I don't know about Milwaukee or Wisconsin but I recall that after the the Second Circuit (?) slapped down NYC for banning the kirpan the City made a new ordnance that the kirpan could be carried but had to secured in the sheath with adhesives so it could not be drawn.

    I some countries the Sikhs are reduced to carrying a little piece of jewelry that looks vaguely like a dagger.

    Edited:  New York is in the Second Circuit.
    « Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 10:43:44 pm by scarville »
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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #42 on: August 08, 2012, 02:27:03 pm »
    I think all churches should designate certain members as watchmen... and be discreetly well armed.

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #43 on: August 08, 2012, 03:38:54 pm »
    I wonder, out of all the Sikhs who do carry the kirpan, how many actually learn to use it?  :hmm

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #44 on: August 08, 2012, 04:46:38 pm »
    In a knife fight against a guy armed with a gun, the techniques are not particularly complex. Close distance, start hacking and stabbing. It's Step 1 that is generally the problem.

    Mike

    PS I'm not saying that formal training would not help, it just would not make as much of a difference in this scenario as it would in knife vs knife, or knife vs whatever. This is more of a mindset issue than a skillset one.
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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #45 on: August 08, 2012, 05:12:11 pm »
    For a time, there was a small group of Sikh, men and women, here in Honolulu. They kept to themselves and were pleasent to all. One night I  responded to their residence and found they had been "harrassed" by some hairy knuckle draggers. During the investigation one mentioned they would be purchasing some firearms and could I suggest someone to train them.
    For the next 5-6 months, everythime our club had a shoot, there were the sikh, men and women, there to learn, practice, and compete. But they did not compete for prizes, they competed to get as good as they could. They all approached it as a martial art and not as a sport. They are a warrior society, I am not surprised that their leader would take on this pos with a small knife. And they do know how to use their blades if the group I met are any indication.
    There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous individuals. Wish I could have known their Leader. He was a real warrior.
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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #46 on: August 08, 2012, 05:44:12 pm »
    I think all churches should designate certain members as watchmen... and be discreetly well armed.

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #47 on: August 08, 2012, 06:18:44 pm »
    They are a warrior society, I am not surprised that their leader would take on this pos with a small knife. And they do know how to use their blades if the group I met are any indication.
    There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous individuals. Wish I could have known their Leader. He was a real warrior.

    I'm using his example in my next active shooter presentation
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    Speak the truth always even if it leads to thy death.
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    Thernlund

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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #48 on: August 08, 2012, 07:29:42 pm »
    I some countries the Sikhs are reduced to carrying a little piece of jewelry that looks vaguely like a dagger.


    I actually have one of those made from solid 24k gold.  It's in a jewelry box someplace.  I'll see if I can dig it up.


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    Re: A mass shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin
    « Reply #49 on: August 08, 2012, 08:45:39 pm »
    What was it my Savior said?  "Sell thy cloak for a sword."

    Bless the church leader who decided to use what was at hand for a sword.
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